Gratuities

[suesings]

Again, I have family that worked on the ships for many years. You really are making assumptions about things without personal knowledge. If it makes you feel better to tip in cash, do it. And stop trying to shame people who don't.

 

And most importantly, please stop characterizing onboard crew as poor people who do these jobs because they are desperate and and oppressed. It is NOT the truth. I know FIRST HAND.

 

My comment was "I am sure it is a fantastic, fantasy life. I wonder why you never see an American as a room steward? We have plenty of unemployed people here."

 

Your response in no way answers my question.

[mispi]

There is big discussion about tips here. I am European and US system of prices and tips is little bit ununderstable for me. Here in Europe if I see in shop price label "10" I pay "10". In US, there is the price without tax, Vat and so on, so I must add some amount for final price. In shops in US my wife allways asks me for the real price and I calculate in my head... strange for us.

The same is the restaurant - here in Europe I look to the menu and I see the REAL price of meal - no prices without 18, 20 or 25%. Ok, if the service is realy good I add some amount, but it is not mandatory. In USA I must calculate in head again -why? I think, it is more or less lie if I see price what is not real.

So that is the reason I like more payment system for example in TUI cruises, where is the system of final price including the service charge and tips, so I see the REAL price of cruise from the first moment. And that is the reason I like to pay prepaid gratuities in american lines too - by my opinion, it is the real price for cruise. OK I extra tip sometime staff, BUT only for high standard service. The salary of staff is not my problem. It is the legal agreement between company and employee.

For price I paid I am waiting for standard cruise service /and it is higher, then on land, of course.../. If it is better and it has great value for me, I pay extra tip.

Edited September 8, 2016 by mispi

[Delmol]

There is big discussion about tips here. I am European and US system of prices and tips is little bit ununderstable for me. Here in Europe if I see in shop price label "10" I pay "10". In US, there is the price without tax, Vat and so on, so I must add some amount for final price. In shops in US my wife allways asks me for the real price and I calculate in my head... strange for us.

The same is the restaurant - here in Europe I look to the menu and I see the REAL price of meal - no prices without 18, 20 or 25%. Ok, if the service is realy good I add some amount, but it is not mandatory. In USA I must calculate in head again -why? I think, it is more or less lie if I see price what is not real.

So that is the reason I like more payment system for example in TUI cruises, where is the system of final price including the service charge and tips, so I see the REAL price of cruise from the first moment. And that is the reason I like to pay prepaid gratuities in american lines too - by my opinion, it is the real price for cruise. OK I extra tip sometime staff, BUT only for high standard service. The salary of staff is not my problem. It is the legal agreement between company and employee.

For price I paid I am waiting for standard cruise service /and it is higher, then on land, of course.../. If it is better and it has great value for me, I pay extra tip.

 

As someone who is also from Europe I totally agree.

 

If I'm paying £1000+ pp for a cruise that's "all inclusive" I'm not paying tips or any petty charges on top of that.

 

But generally we've never had a problem with NCL in this regard.

 

As long as you get a suitable drinks package and pop down to the service desk on the last day to get the daily service charges removed (I'd recommend doing this early as the line will be massive by mid morning) you wont have any issues with added/sly fees.

[pcakes122]

My comment was "I am sure it is a fantastic, fantasy life. I wonder why you never see an American as a room steward? We have plenty of unemployed people here."

 

Your response in no way answers my question.

You are implying that the folks that take jobs as room stewards are some how "lesser" or more "desperate" than Americans. I don't believe that it true. My family members know alot of room stewards. Good, proud people who may not have been born into a country with American privilege, but are clearly INTELLIGENT enough to take advantage of an opportunity to earn relatively high wages compared to their native country by working on a cruise ship. They are not dumb and deluded and forced into servitude by "evil NCL". Just because English is not someone's first language and they do physical work doesn't mean they are pitiful and need charity.

 

As I pointed out earlier, some of these folks could be accountants in their own country and make less than half of what they do on the ships. Their decision to work on a ship shows they are smart and ambitious and know how to capitalize on an opportunity.

 

Some people on this forum perhaps don't realize that your assumptions about room stewards and their dependence on your "tip" charity is quite condescending and reflects a bias about non-Americans in service jobs.

 

Again, tip lots and lots for good service. To anyone in service jobs, anywhere. But please stop acting as if cash tipping room stewards is missionary work.

[IrieBajan54]

You are implying that the folks that take jobs as room stewards are some how "lesser" or more "desperate" than Americans. I don't believe that it true. My family members know alot of room stewards. Good, proud people who may not have been born into a country with American privilege, but are clearly INTELLIGENT enough to take advantage of an opportunity to earn relatively high wages compared to their native country by working on a cruise ship. They are not dumb and deluded and forced into servitude by "evil NCL". Just because English is not someone's first language and they do physical work doesn't mean they are pitiful and need charity.

 

As I pointed out earlier, some of these folks could be accountants in their own country and make less than half of what they do on the ships. Their decision to work on a ship shows they are smart and ambitious and know how to capitalize on an opportunity.

 

Some people on this forum perhaps don't realize that your assumptions about room stewards and their dependence on your "tip" charity is quite condescending and reflects a bias about non-Americans in service jobs.

 

Again, tip lots and lots for good service. To anyone in service jobs, anywhere. But please stop acting as if cash tipping room stewards is missionary work.

 

Some of the same people have an inflated ego about their tipping. Always bloviating about how they tip extra so a bartender would be heavy handed with the cruise line's liquor. :(

[suesings]

There is big discussion about tips here. I am European and US system of prices and tips is little bit ununderstable for me. Here in Europe if I see in shop price label "10" I pay "10". In US, there is the price without tax, Vat and so on, so I must add some amount for final price. In shops in US my wife allways asks me for the real price and I calculate in my head... strange for us.

The same is the restaurant - here in Europe I look to the menu and I see the REAL price of meal - no prices without 18, 20 or 25%. Ok, if the service is realy good I add some amount, but it is not mandatory. In USA I must calculate in head again -why? I think, it is more or less lie if I see price what is not real.

So that is the reason I like more payment system for example in TUI cruises, where is the system of final price including the service charge and tips, so I see the REAL price of cruise from the first moment. And that is the reason I like to pay prepaid gratuities in american lines too - by my opinion, it is the real price for cruise. OK I extra tip sometime staff, BUT only for high standard service. The salary of staff is not my problem. It is the legal agreement between company and employee.

For price I paid I am waiting for standard cruise service /and it is higher, then on land, of course.../. If it is better and it has great value for me, I pay extra tip.

 

I wish every price showed final price as well :D It sure would be easier! And I agree, if the service is outstanding, I tip more. In America, we tip 20% for a wonderful dinner (good food/service). So given the cruise only gives 18%, I feel okay giving my server some cash if they are great and make our dinner enjoyable. I given nice bartenders a buck because I like to!

[suesings]

You are implying that the folks that take jobs as room stewards are some how "lesser" or more "desperate" than Americans. I don't believe that it true. My family members know alot of room stewards. Good, proud people who may not have been born into a country with American privilege, but are clearly INTELLIGENT enough to take advantage of an opportunity to earn relatively high wages compared to their native country by working on a cruise ship. They are not dumb and deluded and forced into servitude by "evil NCL". Just because English is not someone's first language and they do physical work doesn't mean they are pitiful and need charity.

 

As I pointed out earlier, some of these folks could be accountants in their own country and make less than half of what they do on the ships. Their decision to work on a ship shows they are smart and ambitious and know how to capitalize on an opportunity.

 

Some people on this forum perhaps don't realize that your assumptions about room stewards and their dependence on your "tip" charity is quite condescending and reflects a bias about non-Americans in service jobs.

 

Again, tip lots and lots for good service. To anyone in service jobs, anywhere. But please stop acting as if cash tipping room stewards is missionary work.

 

:D:D:D:D:D You are killing me! Again, no answer and just rambling on about whatever...

[suesings]

Some of the same people have an inflated ego about their tipping. Always bloviating about how they tip extra so a bartender would be heavy handed with the cruise line's liquor. :(

 

 

You certainly cannot be talking about me. I never said I tip a bartender to get extra liquor??? That is funny!

[pcakes122]

:D:D:D:D:D You are killing me! Again, no answer and just rambling on about whatever...

I'll try to make it simpler for you to understand. Tip what YOU want to whomever YOU want to. No one is stopping you or judging you. But please refrain from calling those who don't do the same thing as you do "cheapskates, stiffs, low-lifes, tacky people, snakes" and other similar references you have made on this thread and others. Name-calling and judging not necessary in a civil discussion.

 

That is all I'm asking. No need to respond. Thanks!

[suesings]

I'll try to make it simpler for you to understand. Tip what YOU want to whomever YOU want to. No one is stopping you or judging you. But please refrain from calling those who don't do the same thing as you do "cheapskates, stiffs, low-lifes, tacky people, snakes" and other similar references you have made on this thread and others. Name-calling and judging not necessary in a civil discussion.

 

That is all I'm asking. No need to respond. Thanks!

 

This original discussion was about removing DSC. The only thing I took issue with was removing the DSC and then not tipping in cash (those two things together) and then pretending it did not affect the workers. That's it. I do believe stiffing workers is tacky. You can believe it is fine, that is your prerogative.

[pcakes122]

This original discussion was about removing DSC. The only thing I took issue with was removing the DSC and then not tipping in cash (those two things together) and then pretending it did not affect the workers. That's it. I do believe stiffing workers is tacky. You can believe it is fine, that is your prerogative.

I see you are always right and need to have the last word. LOL

 

Below is an example of what I've been referencing about making assumptions/accusations. Perhaps you don't realize you do this?

 

I do believe stiffing workers is tacky. You can believe it is fine, that is your prerogative.

I never said I believe it's fine. You are making an assumption and don't know me at all. Actually, all of my NCL cruises are comped via the casino. As a result, I have lots of extra money when I travel and am a generous cash tipper. I just don't feel the need to announce that regularly on public forum.

 

You can share your opinion without name-calling and judging others. That is all I am saying.

 

This has now gone way off-topic, so I'm moving on from this thread.

[SuiteCruiser]

This original discussion was about removing DSC. The only thing I took issue with was removing the DSC and then not tipping in cash (those two things together) and then pretending it did not affect the workers. That's it. I do believe stiffing workers is tacky. You can believe it is fine, that is your prerogative.

 

I always leave the DSC in place, but I have a question for you. How does removing the DSC "stiff" the waiters that you deal with?

 

You know that NCL has no idea who helps you out in restaurants and back of house. If you're in a group of 10 having lunch, they swipe 1 card.

 

The idea that they get stiffed just doesn't add up, it's NCL who gets stiffed because they still pay their staff.

[pokerpro5]

I always leave the DSC in place, but I have a question for you. How does removing the DSC "stiff" the waiters that you deal with?

 

You know that NCL has no idea who helps you out in restaurants and back of house. If you're in a group of 10 having lunch, they swipe 1 card.

 

The idea that they get stiffed just doesn't add up, it's NCL who gets stiffed because they still pay their staff.

 

She's still in denial regarding the DSC removal. She even believes that the 18% surcharge is a "tip" for the waitstaff.

 

I think people really WANT to believe they are "tipping" via the DSC and 18% surcharges, and it bothers them to think of NCL just pocketing it and only issuing a (small) FLAT RATE gratuity to each worker.

 

It feels much better to pat yourself on the back for "tipping" these people, even in the face of all evidence showing otherwise.

Edited September 8, 2016 by pokerpro5

[pcakes122]

I think people really WANT to believe they are "tipping" via the DSC and 18% surcharges, and it bothers them to think of NCL just pocketing it and only issuing a (small) FLAT RATE gratuity to each worker.

I know for sure you are right about how this works. The only thing I would add (but haven't so far because I am not 1000% positive with first-hand confirmation) is that in order to realize the entire "tip" portion of their salary, the crew member needs to maintain a certain performance level. If their performance dips below a certain level rating, they only get a percentage of the tip part of the salary.

 

That is why the Vacation Hero cards matter ALOT. Those, in conjunction with supervisor reviews, affect employee performance ratings.

[sjbdtz]

I always leave the DSC in place, but I have a question for you. How does removing the DSC "stiff" the waiters that you deal with?

 

You know that NCL has no idea who helps you out in restaurants and back of house. If you're in a group of 10 having lunch, they swipe 1 card.

 

The idea that they get stiffed just doesn't add up, it's NCL who gets stiffed because they still pay their staff.

 

Sally,

 

I believe the crew get 'stiffed' because while their share of the pool may be set by NCL, the size of the pool of service charges is dictated by the passengers each week - regardless of whose keycard was swiped.

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[triptolemus]

It feels much better to pat yourself on the back for "tipping" these people, even in the face of all evidence showing otherwise.

 

What evidence? Your "research"? Your word?

 

Can you elaborate on the evidence, please? Not your opinion on how things work based on anecdotal evidence. Real evidence.

 

I'll wait. If you'd like, just go and copy/paste one of your several hundred previous posts on the matter. Your answer now will be no different, no better, and still won't be evidence. For what its worth, I agree with your opinion. But your opinion is not evidence.

Edited September 8, 2016 by triptolemus

[pokerpro5]

What evidence? Your "research"? Your word?

 

Can you elaborate on the evidence, please? Not your opinion on how things work based on anecdotal evidence. Real evidence.

 

I'll wait. If you'd like, just go and copy/paste one of your several hundred previous posts on the matter. Your answer now will be no different, no better, and still won't be evidence. For what its worth, I agree with your opinion. But your opinion is not evidence.

 

I've stated repeatedly that crew members I've met via social media have verified to me that it works the way I'm saying it works.

 

They have no reason to lie to me, and I'm being told this by independent people who (I believe) don't know each other.

 

I cannot prove it to you, however. Even if I copy and paste their messages to me, you (or anyone else) could accuse me of fabricating them, and I'd have no way to counter that.

 

In addition, there is a lot of other circumstantial evidence leading any intelligent observer to believe that the DSC does not affect tips received by the crew.

 

There are many things in life which one comes to believe without absolute proof.

 

This is one of them.

[NLH Arizona]

I know for sure you are right about how this works. The only thing I would add (but haven't so far because I am not 1000% positive with first-hand confirmation) is that in order to realize the entire "tip" portion of their salary, the crew member needs to maintain a certain performance level. If their performance dips below a certain level rating, they only get a percentage of the tip part of the salary.

 

That is why the Vacation Hero cards matter ALOT. Those, in conjunction with supervisor reviews, affect employee performance ratings.

You are correct to an extent. The crew members receive a guaranteed salary (which is very, very low. It has been reported to be anywhere between $50 to $200 a month) and the rest of their salary is derived from the DSC or automatic gratuities, depending on what the cruise line calls them. I would bet that their performance and passenger comments are taken into consideration when NCL is doling out the money.

[luvtheships]

I'm removing dsc my next cruise

 

I'm tipping steward $30. Done

 

I'm buying a case of water. $48. Done

 

I'm having a few drinks $150. Done and I don't drink much anyway so the 18% on the ubp for 2 was excessive

 

Ok...so I'm still giving Ncl approx $200 of my cash but by removing dsc I'm actually getting something worth $200 that I want

 

Crew still gets paid

 

Ncl still gets my money

 

I get something I want for my $200

 

Win win for me. Lol

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[triptolemus]

I've stated repeatedly that crew members I've met via social media have verified to me that it works the way I'm saying it works.

 

They have no reason to lie to me, and I'm being told this by independent people who (I believe) don't know each other.

 

I cannot prove it to you, however. Even if I copy and paste their messages to me, you (or anyone else) could accuse me of fabricating them, and I'd have no way to counter that.

 

In addition, there is a lot of other circumstantial evidence leading any intelligent observer to believe that the DSC does not affect tips received by the crew.

 

There are many things in life which one comes to believe without absolute proof.

 

This is one of them.

 

That's all well and good. But you can't describe that as "face of all the evidence showing otherwise."

 

It's still your opinion, dude... lacking any citations whatsoever.

[lolmerry]

As someone who is also from Europe I totally agree.

 

If I'm paying £1000+ pp for a cruise that's "all inclusive" I'm not paying tips or any petty charges on top of that.

 

But generally we've never had a problem with NCL in this regard.

 

As long as you get a suitable drinks package and pop down to the service desk on the last day to get the daily service charges removed (I'd recommend doing this early as the line will be massive by mid morning) you wont have any issues with added/sly fees.

 

can i just confirm what you are saying ,if you are from the UK,you can remove the DSC,or do you have to get a form and send it off when you return,I shall be tipping in cash

[pcakes122]

The crew members receive a guaranteed salary (which is very, very low. It has been reported to be anywhere between $50 to $200 a month)

I'm sorry this is incorrect. As I posted upthread in this discussion, my sister and BIL worked for NCL for many years. My BIL referred me to the International Transport Federation (ITF) website which is a federation that regulates wages, etc. for seafarer's jobs. I posted a link to 2016 minimum wages (steward wage is $919 per month before "tip" portion.)

 

I also posted (for reference) a list of comparable salaries in the Philippines (since most stewards are Filipinos.) Cruise ship stewards make more than twice what professionals (nurses, engineers, etc.) make in their home country. (See this info back further in this thread.)

 

Not sure where you are getting your info ($50-$200 per month.) This is the kind of misinformation that causes confusion.

Edited September 8, 2016 by pcakes122

[chisoxfan]

You are implying that the folks that take jobs as room stewards are some how "lesser" or more "desperate" than Americans. I don't believe that it true. My family members know alot of room stewards. Good, proud people who may not have been born into a country with American privilege, but are clearly INTELLIGENT enough to take advantage of an opportunity to earn relatively high wages compared to their native country by working on a cruise ship. They are not dumb and deluded and forced into servitude by "evil NCL". Just because English is not someone's first language and they do physical work doesn't mean they are pitiful and need charity.

 

As I pointed out earlier, some of these folks could be accountants in their own country and make less than half of what they do on the ships. Their decision to work on a ship shows they are smart and ambitious and know how to capitalize on an opportunity.

 

Some people on this forum perhaps don't realize that your assumptions about room stewards and their dependence on your "tip" charity is quite condescending and reflects a bias about non-Americans in service jobs.

 

Again, tip lots and lots for good service. To anyone in service jobs, anywhere. But please stop acting as if cash tipping room stewards is missionary work.

 

You've made some very intelligent, insightful posts. Somehow it seems that many cruisers need to see the cruise line service people as 'poor' 'underpaid' victims.

They seem to feel that their patronizing chatter and a few bucks of tips are helping to resolve the economic inequalities of the world. I am reminded of Caddyshack Judge Smails who gives Danny some loose change as tip for caddying.

Personally, paying the ships 'auto' gratuities (wherever it goes) and perhaps some occasional additional tips for any 'outstanding' service gives me a clear conscience. JMHO

[SuiteCruiser]

Sally,

 

I believe the crew get 'stiffed' because while their share of the pool may be set by NCL, the size of the pool of service charges is dictated by the passengers each week - regardless of whose keycard was swiped.

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

 

As I said, I always pay the DSC because I feel it's the right thing to do, but people seem to think that their steward only gets a small pay if people remove the DSC, and that's not the case. The steward doesn't get 5x more money if there are 6 in a 2 bedroom suite, than if I'm in it by myself. It's all averaged out.

 

I agree with you on the pool of people paying into it, but that can be due to the capacity and not just people removing the DSC. People have been removing it for years, so unless a much larger percentage starts to take it off too, they won't even notice it.

[Bonobochick]

You are implying that the folks that take jobs as room stewards are some how "lesser" or more "desperate" than Americans. I don't believe that it true. My family members know alot of room stewards. Good, proud people who may not have been born into a country with American privilege, but are clearly INTELLIGENT enough to take advantage of an opportunity to earn relatively high wages compared to their native country by working on a cruise ship. They are not dumb and deluded and forced into servitude by "evil NCL". Just because English is not someone's first language and they do physical work doesn't mean they are pitiful and need charity.

 

As I pointed out earlier, some of these folks could be accountants in their own country and make less than half of what they do on the ships. Their decision to work on a ship shows they are smart and ambitious and know how to capitalize on an opportunity.

 

Some people on this forum perhaps don't realize that your assumptions about room stewards and their dependence on your "tip" charity is quite condescending and reflects a bias about non-Americans in service jobs.

 

Again, tip lots and lots for good service. To anyone in service jobs, anywhere. But please stop acting as if cash tipping room stewards is missionary work.

 

This is a great post that mirrors my own reaction to these gratuity threads and how it can veer into a weird territory where some espouse that the crew are basically serfs that we passengers have to care for like lords & ladies of the land or they won't survive. Thank you for your perfect comment about this discussion. :)