Happy when you send a Cruiseline bust?

[openmindedcruiser]

Reading the many reports on here about people want more, more, more. That they complain about paying for coffee in the coffee shops, complain about not being able to buy cheap drinks in the shops instead of paying bar prices yet also complain if they can't find a deal for less than $50 a day.....

 

One of these days, you are going to send a cruiseline bust - and then you will be all very happy.

 

If you look at the money a Cruiseline such as RCCL or Carnival makes, it is big bucks, but you break that down to a per diem (Per passenger per day) and it is just a couple of dollars......

 

The cost of cruising is cheaper now than it has ever been..... 20 years ago it cost over $150 a day for a cruise........ now look at what you get, with 20 years of inflation and the rising cost of fuel.

 

Something to think about and discuss.....

[bigscrb15]

I agree with you. If you want all that stuff for free, then pay 6x the price and cruise on an all inclusive. If you don't want to pay for it and just want to complain, don't go. I am glad you wrote this because I feel the exact same way. You don't see anyone complaining they have to buy Microsoft Windows and then go buy Office, Virus Scan, Games, etc.

[Shirley and Les]

If a cruise line goes out of business, I would blame it on poor management within the company instead of customer demands. When the demand for cruises dropped after 9/11, the cruise lines responded by reducing their prices to attempt to lure customers to return. Did any of them go out of business? No, they just adjusted to the new way of doing business. Now that their passenger base has returned, they are doing things like prohibiting TA's from offering discount prices; reducing the perks associated with group cruises; and similar cuts in food quality and services.

Don't worry about these major corporations. They will make it on their own.

[mimikens]

Actually, cruise lines make less per share than most other companies if you look at the stockmarket. My first cruise on RCCL (in an inside cabin) 15 years ago cost more than my balcony to Alaska on the Radiance. I shop around for a good price, but the truth is, I would pay more if I had to. There's not a vacation that is cheaper and more enjoyable than a cruise, IMHO. I hate the thought of them budgeting down to the point that they start going out of business. Who would have thought that the majority of the airlines would be facing bankruptcy?

[abridalmaven]

Reading the many reports on here about people want more, more, more. That they complain about paying for coffee in the coffee shops, complain about not being able to buy cheap drinks in the shops instead of paying bar prices yet also complain if they can't find a deal for less than $50 a day.....

 

One of these days, you are going to send a cruiseline bust - and then you will be all very happy.

 

If you look at the money a Cruiseline such as RCCL or Carnival makes, it is big bucks, but you break that down to a per diem (Per passenger per day) and it is just a couple of dollars......

 

The cost of cruising is cheaper now than it has ever been..... 20 years ago it cost over $150 a day for a cruise........ now look at what you get, with 20 years of inflation and the rising cost of fuel.

 

Something to think about and discuss.....

 

 

That is what happened to many industries, some newspapers are one example. The unions wanted so much the companies coud no longer make a profit, and a business is NOT in the business of losing money or giving things away free. So the just went out of business, too bad.

[AmandaNS]

I agree that some folks just want everything for nothing.

 

While competition is healthy to encourage fair pricing, too much competition and companies go under, meaning less competition, and the danger of losing that check and balance in the pricing.

 

Just think of the number of airlines that are in bankruptcy protection right now... and who's paying for it....

[jagsfan]

If a cruise line goes out of business, I would blame it on poor management within the company instead of customer demands. When the demand for cruises dropped after 9/11, the cruise lines responded by reducing their prices to attempt to lure customers to return. Did any of them go out of business? No, they just adjusted to the new way of doing business. Now that their passenger base has returned, they are doing things like prohibiting TA's from offering discount prices; reducing the perks associated with group cruises; and similar cuts in food quality and services.

Don't worry about these major corporations. They will make it on their own.

Actually, some cruiselines did go out of business after 9/11. They were good

cruiselines, too, and still missed. Premier was one....really popular out of

Florida, and another was Renaissance. Renaissance had 6 new ships, and was

absolutely wonderful. Luxury at a midmarket price. Oceania bought 2 of their

ships for Tahiti. The cruiselines must make a profit to stay in business, but

offer much much more than the same money would get on land. Cruise prices

are wonderful, compared to 20 years ago, and the amenities are vastly

improved. Compare the cost of a land vacation including the things you

receive free on a cruise, and you'll see the bargain a cruise is.

And, as far as stopping TAs from offering discounts, this is not to save the

cruise lines any money, it is to level the playing field so that smaller agencies

have a chance to survive.

[EBFURR]

Ah yes, the question of cruise cost vs. service & quality. The OP is correct in that cruising today is less expensive (at least on the surface) than is days gone by, even in inflation adjusted dollars. Our first was booked about 11 years ago (RCCL) and we still have the invoice. We paid a little over $3200.00 (1600.00/person) for an ocean view (no balcony, a window) lower deck cabin, 7 day Western Caribbean on the Majesty, RCCL’s newest “mega ship” of that day. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that in those days the cruise line included airfare and transfers. I tried to get my own airfare and they were going to knock off $100/person. There was no discount for not using their transfers (shuttle). Take out the airfare and adjust for inflation and you have around $4000.00 for a lower deck non-balcony cabin.

BUT... There were very few things to spend money on once on board. The bar prices were noticeably cheaper than on land. The photo prices were reasonable. There were no "specialty" restaurants, no coffee for sale, no ice cream for sale, no charge for soft drinks of any kind, etc. All of this was included in the fare. The dining room food and service was done at a much higher level. If you have been to Chops or Portofino, that is the type of food and the level of service that was available in the dining room EVERY night. Additionally, there was a midnight buffet every single night. They had the Gala buffet on the next to last night.

Somewhere along the way, the midnight buffets began to disappear, airfare faded from the picture, dining staff was reduced, the food quality was adjusted down a few notches (or more), bar prices crept upward, and more “extras” began to become available for an extra charge. All the while, cruise fares stayed the same or went down. This was a natural result of more capacity (more and bigger ships) and the competition to fill all the bunks. There were “economies of scale” that went with the ever larger ships, but a lot of that was due to buying in bulk (read mass market food) and by stretching out staff (read less personal service).

Where does that leave us today? The cruise fare looks to be a bargain, especially when compared to the “old days”. However, if you go today and look for the same experience that you used to get, you will either be disappointed or you will spend much more money on board in addition to the fare you paid to board. The marketing philosophy seems to be to discount the fares to the extent necessary to assure full sailings, and then make up the difference in on-board revenue streams. The revenue streams (bar drinks, photos, specialty restaurants, coffees, etc) are, of course optional, so you are not required to indulge. The cruise lines are betting that most everyone will to some extent and apparently it is working for them. A harsh analysis might call this a form of “bait & switch”, but since the extras are optional, that would not be truly fair.

Our humble opinion? We would prefer to pay a little more up front and not have to pay extra for really good food, exceptional service, and to not be constantly bombarded with sales pitches. Some who are satisfied with status quo and who do not spend money on the extras will disagree. Apparently, they are the majority at the moment. One other thing. The higher level of service can be had, but at a considerably higher price. Besides, we like the RCCL “experience” and that would be missing to a large extent on the “upper crust” lines. Oh well, it is the best game in town, so we will be there again next year.

[imatarb]

I agree. If I wanted every single thing included in the price, I'd go to an all-inclusive resort.

[funforsun]

Don't worry about these major corporations. They will make it on their own.

 

Well, here is the classic example of an under-informed consumer. The "corporations" are somehow immune to market factors, stockholder demands, quarterly forecasts, wall street expectations, and oh yes, the National Debt.

 

What I hope someday is that all people will need to run their own businesses. Think its fun? Well, for some, yes. But for the vast majority it is a losing proposition. Just take a look at the number of corporations that fail during their first year of operation. Cruise lines, IMHO, are offering a tremendous product at a very scaled back price. If you were to take a 7-day caribbean cruise on RCI, pay for all of their "extras" and stay in a balcony stateroom, you would spend thousands less than a Seabourn, Crystal Cruises or others. They are offering a product that is a great value to get in on in a very affordable manner, and allow you, the consumer, to control the dollars you spend. Me, I'm all for the extras and I think the timing was right for the change. Now, cruise lines can differentiate themselves even further and that is even better for us, the informed consumer.

 

Money doesn't grow on trees, and "major coporations" do not have a printing press. They need to compete in the marketplace and provide value to their shareholders. If they get too expensive, others will enter the marketplace. If the quality gets too low, others will figure out a better way to offer quality that is needed and get an appropriate price.

 

The "major corporations" are not the boogey-men here, it is an ill-informed public.

[Shirley and Les]

What I hope someday is that all people will need to run their own businesses. Think its fun? Well, for some, yes. But for the vast majority it is a losing proposition. Just take a look at the number of corporations that fail during their first year of operation...

It must take a special kind of person to hope that all people will have a chance to fail in business! For me, I just hope that people are satisfied with the occupation they have selected.

 

...They are offering a product that is a great value to get in on in a very affordable manner, and allow you, the consumer, to control the dollars you spend...

The OP was concerned about cruise lines being driven out of business by unreasonable customer demands for free coffee and bottles of liquor from the shops on the ships. If you look at RCCL's annual reports, you will realize that onboard food costs only represent 5 or 6 percent of total revenue. A small change in that category doesn't mean much to the overall profibility of a cruise line.

[funforsun]

Nope, I don't want businesses to fail. I want all businesses to succeed because a rising tide raises all ships (One of my Jesse Jackson favorites). I also agree with you that if a cruise line fails, it is the fault of the management. What I was responding to was the notion that we consumers should be entitled to more free stuff. What is actually the case, is that we are entitled to what we contract for. In this case, the cruise industry is changing and some are lamenting what they used to see as getting stuff for free, when it was actually included in their fare. Now, the industry is making it easier for people to afford the trip, but allow people to control what they spend by offering more items on a per-charge basis. I think that is good. Some think it is bad. In any case, my belief is that choice is good, and there has never been a greater availability of choice as there exists today. Whether or not food costs represent 5% of the total costs (I think that is what you meant?) or not. And BTW, when a business starts to re-organize itself and looks to cut costs, no area of the company is immune, as that would send the wrong message to the organization. And when fuel and energy costs are skyrocketing, other areas need to make up the difference. It is simple math. That means less service people, more things offered at a cost, and so on. If the trend gets to a state where people see a better value somewhere else, they will vote with their pocketbooks. So far, we can't build enough ships to take care of the demand.

 

Anyway, I read your post as anti-business and suggesting that the cruise industry is just sticking to the consumer. If I missed on that, my apologies.

[Merion_Mom]

Ah yes, the question of cruise cost vs. service & quality. The OP is correct in that cruising today is less expensive (at least on the surface) than is days gone by, even in inflation adjusted dollars. Our first was booked about 11 years ago (RCCL) and we still have the invoice. We paid a little over $3200.00 (1600.00/person) for an ocean view (no balcony, a window) lower deck cabin, 7 day Western Caribbean on the Majesty, RCCL’s newest “mega ship” of that day. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that in those days the cruise line included airfare and transfers. I tried to get my own airfare and they were going to knock off $100/person. There was no discount for not using their transfers (shuttle). Take out the airfare and adjust for inflation and you have around $4000.00 for a lower deck non-balcony cabin.

BUT... There were very few things to spend money on once on board. The bar prices were noticeably cheaper than on land. The photo prices were reasonable. There were no "specialty" restaurants, no coffee for sale, no ice cream for sale, no charge for soft drinks of any kind, etc. All of this was included in the fare. The dining room food and service was done at a much higher level. If you have been to Chops or Portofino, that is the type of food and the level of service that was available in the dining room EVERY night. Additionally, there was a midnight buffet every single night. They had the Gala buffet on the next to last night.

Somewhere along the way, the midnight buffets began to disappear, airfare faded from the picture, dining staff was reduced, the food quality was adjusted down a few notches (or more), bar prices crept upward, and more “extras” began to become available for an extra charge. All the while, cruise fares stayed the same or went down. This was a natural result of more capacity (more and bigger ships) and the competition to fill all the bunks. There were “economies of scale” that went with the ever larger ships, but a lot of that was due to buying in bulk (read mass market food) and by stretching out staff (read less personal service).

Where does that leave us today? The cruise fare looks to be a bargain, especially when compared to the “old days”. However, if you go today and look for the same experience that you used to get, you will either be disappointed or you will spend much more money on board in addition to the fare you paid to board. The marketing philosophy seems to be to discount the fares to the extent necessary to assure full sailings, and then make up the difference in on-board revenue streams. The revenue streams (bar drinks, photos, specialty restaurants, coffees, etc) are, of course optional, so you are not required to indulge. The cruise lines are betting that most everyone will to some extent and apparently it is working for them. A harsh analysis might call this a form of “bait & switch”, but since the extras are optional, that would not be truly fair.

Our humble opinion? We would prefer to pay a little more up front and not have to pay extra for really good food, exceptional service, and to not be constantly bombarded with sales pitches. Some who are satisfied with status quo and who do not spend money on the extras will disagree. Apparently, they are the majority at the moment. One other thing. The higher level of service can be had, but at a considerably higher price. Besides, we like the RCCL “experience” and that would be missing to a large extent on the “upper crust” lines. Oh well, it is the best game in town, so we will be there again next year.

EBFURR is brilliant.

[burritopunk]

I agree with you. If you want all that stuff for free, then pay 6x the price and cruise on an all inclusive. If you don't want to pay for it and just want to complain, don't go. I am glad you wrote this because I feel the exact same way. You don't see anyone complaining they have to buy Microsoft Windows and then go buy Office, Virus Scan, Games, etc.

 

You obviously don't work in computer retail :D

[Soxfan05]

Reading the many reports on here about people want more, more, more. That they complain about paying for coffee in the coffee shops, complain about not being able to buy cheap drinks in the shops instead of paying bar prices yet also complain if they can't find a deal for less than $50 a day.....

 

One of these days, you are going to send a cruiseline bust - and then you will be all very happy.

 

If you look at the money a Cruiseline such as RCCL or Carnival makes, it is big bucks, but you break that down to a per diem (Per passenger per day) and it is just a couple of dollars......

 

The cost of cruising is cheaper now than it has ever been..... 20 years ago it cost over $150 a day for a cruise........ now look at what you get, with 20 years of inflation and the rising cost of fuel.

 

Something to think about and discuss.....

 

Let's look at say... Disney. Their cruise prices are still higher than the other mass market cruise lines. Why? They only have 2 ships. It's supply and demand. Their theme park/lodging package prices are the lowest we've seen in years. Why? They have built so many resorts to attract a "stay in the park crowd", they can't fill all the rooms. Couple that with other attractions in the same area and you get a good deal for the consumer. I still expect the level of service I got years ago at Disney but that just doesn't happen. I do understand with reduced prices, you get reduced service. I just opt not to go.

 

The mass market cruiselines keep building more ships and yes, they will have to reduce rates to fill them. They have opted to pursue a volume of business approach over a higher price for better quality model. They've chosen this path, it doesn't mean the consumer has to like it. But then again, the consumer can just opt not to go or if they do, they can just opt not to buy the "extras" offered for retail purchase.

[PTarbay]

Openmindedcruiser,

Do you work for one of the cruiselines?i saw on your other post you had worked with Richard Spacey.

[DFritz]

I personally would rather see cruise fares stay at the lower cost that they are now and pay additional for amenitites that I may wish to have and skip those I don't want. If fares increase we have to go back to camping vacations. My mom cruised on the RCI Song of America back in late 80's early 90's. I remember seeing a picture she took of her first lunch once onboard. Note our buffets that are offered nowadays onboard. Her first lunch was a sandwich , pre-made, wrapped in plastic, with a carton of milk and a piece of fruit, served cafeteria style. Her cruise price for an OV stateroom was $1800. ( no airfare included ) per person. I'll take the new changes and be very happy with them.

[crookedhalo]

I like the ala carte type of sitution on cruises now. DH and I don't drink much at all (less than $150 on last 4 day cruise - including sodas), and I don't want to subsidize someone else's drinks (which in essence, if cruises included beverages, is what would be happening. With this approach, you can spend as little or as much as you want, really allowing the consumer to control their budget. Dollar for Dollar, you can't beat the per diem rate! Keep up the good work cruise lines!:D

[nfused2cruze]

One company has heard the "cry!" ;)

http://www.easycruise.com/faqs/AboutUs.asp?SD=82230258220051031174538 :eek:

[i-m-ed]

One company has heard the "cry!" ;)

http://www.easycruise.com/faqs/AboutUs.asp?SD=82230258220051031174538 :eek:

 

That looks like it would be alot of fun if I were younger / single.

[crookedhalo]

Anyone for oranges? I feel a sudden craving....:p

[Merion_Mom]

Anyone for oranges? I feel a sudden craving....:p

LOL!

[BobBeaSea]

Whining cruisers won't send a cruiseline into bankruptcy...a lack of passengers will! The above poster(s) who outlined how inexpensive cruising is today vs. years ago is correct. Our Voyager cruise last March was far less money than the previous 2 cruises (Sovereign '90 & '93). Is the so-called "nickel and diming" worse now than 12 years ago-yes, however noone is forcing you to buy anything you don't want to....just ignore the pitches and come-ons. Having said that, I believe the cruiselines need to generate a lot more "non-cruisefare" revenue than they previously did and that results in the constant pitches for any extra curricular activities...booze, bingo, art auctions, photographs, shopping etc.

[jagsfan]

I just remembered something from the distant past. Carnival's welcome aboard lunch....it was an outdoor buffet consisting of withered looking hot

dogs and dried out hamburgers, with stale buns.....no joke! The price adjusted for inflation was probably higher per diem than it is now. So we are

still getting fantastic value for our money.

[i-m-ed]

I just remembered something from the distant past. Carnival's welcome aboard lunch....it was an outdoor buffet consisting of withered looking hot

dogs and dried out hamburgers, with stale buns.....no joke! The price adjusted for inflation was probably higher per diem than it is now. So we are

still getting fantastic value for our money.

 

We cruised Carnival in 1994 and the buffet line on the Lido deck was like a cattle call. As you stated, we had to stand in line for >15 min for a shriveled up hot dog.