Cuba cruise: Can't get off the boat if not booked a cruise through HAL?

[OlsSalt]

Three days in Cuba! Lucky you! I think that you only have to meet the criterion of the seven to eight hour U.S. sponsored tour once and then you can go out on your own. I'm so jealous! What ship/date/itinerary?

 

Read the regulations put out by the US Dept of Treasury. They want hour by hour documentation kept for up to five years if you go it alone. That they may or may not ask for later. There is also a detailed list of US prohibited tour companies and venues that you are supposed to avoid entirely - claims they are actually fronts for the Cuban military.

[RuthC]

Number two- you can do what ever you want, as long as you are prepared to deal with any Dept of Treasury requests for up to a five year period. You can assess the risks of that ever happening. You are not defying anyone if you just "boldly walking off the ship" on your own.

 

HAL save you the straight scoop. Do what you want but know there are US regulations you may need to face later, depending on the choices you make.

Why do you keep insisting that OP is running a risk with the US Dept. of Treasury?

She's Canadian. How does the US have any right to ever go after her?

[CruiseGal999]

Number one, are you sure it is three full days or a day and an early morning departure on the second day in Havana?

Number two- you can do what ever you want, as long as you are prepared to deal with any Dept of Treasury requests for up to a five year period. You can assess the risks of that ever happening. You are not defying anyone if you just "boldly walking off the ship" on your own.

 

HAL save you the straight scoop. Do what you want but know there are US regulations you may need to face later, depending on the choices you make.

 

There are some cruise lines and itineraries that do 3 different stops in Cuba ... so, I think, the 3 days.

 

https://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/voyage/1522209600/10-night-cuba-intensive-voyage

Edited February 27, 2018 by CruiseGal999

[CruiseGal999]

Oh my goodness, we are on page 2 and everything is still clear as mud! I did ask my TA about this, too, and this is the official response from HAL:

 

"Holland America Shore Excursion Department (888-425-9376) just confirmed that if you book the shore excursions with the third-party company, you need to provide the paper work that shows the tours are approved by the government.

You also need to meet the person-person requirement."

I don't mind doing a tour for one day, but as the itinerary has us in Cuba for 3 days, we really want to do some independent exploring on our own. From the sounds of it, it looks like we aren't allowed to do that. I am seriously thinking of booking a third party tour on the first day in Havana (like the Classic Car one that has been recommended), and then just boldly walking off the ship on the other two days!

 

OldCarTours.com is a privately owned company ... again, FYI. They have NO government ties. The emails to reserve your car (you don't pay until the END of your tour) is your documentation. But you get to select THE car you want. I had the '54 Red/White Buick and 2nd day was the '52 Pink Chevy. The guides were amazing. SO helpful and I was a solo cruiser.

 

Oh, and everyone, McCarthy's dead ... isn't he? : ? )

[SJunie]

Three days in Cuba! Lucky you! I think that you only have to meet the criterion of the seven to eight hour U.S. sponsored tour once and then you can go out on your own. I'm so jealous! What ship/date/itinerary?

 

This is the Veendam on the March 17th sailing. I read the itinerary wrong. It's actually arriving in Havana on the 22nd at 8am and departing Havana on the 23rd at 2am, so that's not two full days :loudcry::loudcry::(

Then there is one day in Cienfuegos.

 

I appreciate all the feedback that I am getting. I am not too worried about the good old US of A coming after me since I am Canadian. I am more worried that we won't be allowed off the ship once we are in Cuba if we don't book a HAL tour.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Why do you keep insisting that OP is running a risk with the US Dept. of Treasury?

She's Canadian. How does the US have any right to ever go after her?

 

I never thought about this wrinkle.

 

I had a cruise to Cuba booked, but I cancelled because of all the confusion and potential hassle, and the fact that the kind of travel I like to do (museums, independent wandering to just enjoy looking around) appeared to be against the rules. I did a lot of reading on the Cuba board. There are some people there with a lot of experience traveling to Cuba under the old rules. My understanding of the rules for people who booked after the date the changes were announced is the same as what OlsSalt is saying. You may choose to take a ship tour or an independent tour, or go out on your own. BUT if you aren't taking a ship's tour, you need to keep documentation of it, and yes, Treasury can ask for that documentation. I suppose they could have "audits" at the arrival terminal in Florida. Random documentation checks. But that doesn't seem to be happening. So once a Canadian is home, I don't see how US Treasury can go after them. And even if they did do a check at the port, I'm not sure what they could do to a Canadian citizen.

 

These rules aren't well thought out. I think the announcement was made before anyone thought about the effect on cruises. "Approved" land tours may still go. Individuals not on cruises or land tours are VERY restricted now. That was easy to decide. But they took some time to come up with rules for cruises, and they decided to put the onus on individuals, rather than forcing the cruise lines to regulate what their passengers do. I wonder if it even occurred to anyone that a non-US citizen might take a cruise to Cuba from a US port.

 

So the rules are all about individual cruisers and HAL will not be held responsible for people who go off on their own and go to a beach instead of doing "people to people" touring. There is the threat that Treasury can audit you as far out as 5 years, but how likely is that when they don't have enough staff to do all the tax audits they need to do???? Yes, you take a risk of being audited if your go out on your own, and each individual must assess that risk for him/herself.

 

I'm willing to bet the current administration has given no thought to this since the rules were announced. It was a political move to undo something done by the previous administration. Staging the announcement in South Florida with a senator in attendance was no accident. Once the Grand Proclamation was made, little thought was given to how it would be carried out, resulting in the very confusing situation we have now.

[3rdGenCunarder]

This is the Veendam on the March 17th sailing. I read the itinerary wrong. It's actually arriving in Havana on the 22nd at 8am and departing Havana on the 23rd at 2am, so that's not two full days :loudcry::loudcry::(

Then there is one day in Cienfuegos.

 

I appreciate all the feedback that I am getting. I am not too worried about the good old US of A coming after me since I am Canadian. I am more worried that we won't be allowed off the ship once we are in Cuba if we don't book a HAL tour.

 

It sure isn't two full days! But HAL is not alone in this. Cunard does a short July 4th cruise, usually to Halifax and Boston, being in Boston on the 4th. Their website does not show specific times. They say "morning," early evening," etc. When we've done this cruise, arrival was on morning of the 4th. I think we arrived around 9 AM. Departure was shown as "early morning" on the 5th. I think we left about 1 AM.

[OlsSalt]

Why do you keep insisting that OP is running a risk with the US Dept. of Treasury?

She's Canadian. How does the US have any right to ever go after her?

 

I missed that the OP was a Canadian - and did qualify folllow-up responses as concerns for US passengers also having questions or misstatements about US policy affecting US citizens. I guess you missed that too.

 

To repeat: No reason for anyone other than US citizens to be concerned with US Dept of Treasury regulations. Are we clear now? It also appears HAL is providing clearer information than we ran into before the maiden Veendam trip to Cuba that I was on last Dec/Jan holiday season - that is the US Christmas/NewYears holiday season.

[RuthC]

I guess you missed that too.

No, I knew precisely what you were doing.

[OlsSalt]

No, I knew precisely what you were doing.

 

Reap what you sow, Ruth.

[jakkojakko]

You can explore on your own provided you do a HAL excursion first.

 

Answer from Capt Albert himself, currently on the Veendam in Cuba. :

 

 

"The situation is as follows, Cuba has opened up due to an agreement between the USA and Cuba for cultural exchanges. This means that US cruiseships (and the Veendam is an US cruise ship as the owner Carnival Corp is an American company) can call at Cuban ports if it has a cultural connection. The agreement calls for each guest on board a US cruiseship to partake in Cuban cultural experiences. This has been translated in practical form for each and every guest to participate in a shore excursion. Once the shore excursion has been made, the remainder of the day and night is free for personal exploration. This is the case for our call to Havana and also for our call at Cienfuegos."

[3rdGenCunarder]

You can explore on your own provided you do a HAL excursion first.

 

Answer from Capt Albert himself, currently on the Veendam in Cuba. :

 

 

"The situation is as follows, Cuba has opened up due to an agreement between the USA and Cuba for cultural exchanges. This means that US cruiseships (and the Veendam is an US cruise ship as the owner Carnival Corp is an American company) can call at Cuban ports if it has a cultural connection. The agreement calls for each guest on board a US cruiseship to partake in Cuban cultural experiences. This has been translated in practical form for each and every guest to participate in a shore excursion. Once the shore excursion has been made, the remainder of the day and night is free for personal exploration. This is the case for our call to Havana and also for our call at Cienfuegos."

 

But does it have to be a HAL excursion? If you don't have a HAL excursion booked, what do you have to do to get off the ship?

[OlsSalt]

You can explore on your own provided you do a HAL excursion first.

 

Answer from Capt Albert himself, currently on the Veendam in Cuba. :

 

 

"The situation is as follows, Cuba has opened up due to an agreement between the USA and Cuba for cultural exchanges. This means that US cruiseships (and the Veendam is an US cruise ship as the owner Carnival Corp is an American company) can call at Cuban ports if it has a cultural connection. The agreement calls for each guest on board a US cruiseship to partake in Cuban cultural experiences. This has been translated in practical form for each and every guest to participate in a shore excursion. Once the shore excursion has been made, the remainder of the day and night is free for personal exploration. This is the case for our call to Havana and also for our call at Cienfuegos."

 

Your interpretation is not correct - one needs to do an organized excursion to qualify under US Dept of Treasury regulations, but it does not need to be only a HAL excursion.

 

Capt Albert seemed more obsessed with Cuban female "jiggle" than the fine points of the regulations governing US citizens.

[OlsSalt]

But does it have to be a HAL excursion? If you don't have a HAL excursion booked, what do you have to do to get off the ship?

 

You just walk off the ship after passing Cuban immigration. Your day of reckoning as a US citizen comes later if the US Dept of Treasury wants documentation of your time spent ashore.

[jakkojakko]

As I see it, you need to do a HAL excursion first. That's the only check they can easily do since they seem to be responsible for passengers adhering to the agreement. And note that, although it's a US agreement, because it's an american corporation all passengers, also non US, are to binded by this rule.

[jakkojakko]

You just walk off the ship after passing Cuban immigration. Your day of reckoning as a US citizen comes later if the US Dept of Treasury wants documentation of your time spent ashore.

 

That may be the law, but Hal's translation of that is "each and every guest must do a shore excursion" . So even if you're right it's HAL's rules at the time you have to deal with.

[OlsSalt]

That may be the law, but Hal's translation of that is "each and every guest must do a shore excursion" . So even if you're right it's HAL's rules at the time you have to deal with.

 

HAL has the obligation to inform US passengers of US requirements. And abide by whatever restrictions apply to them under their corporate registtration. But there is nothing in this language says it must be exclusively a HAL excursion - though the HAL excursions do meet these new requirements.

 

For those of us who have now visited Cuba on HAL cruises after these new regulations were in place, nothing on the ground either entering Cuba or leaving the ship and going through US customs in FLL matched the expectations we all had ahead of time trying to sort out the confusing new "rules". So far no one has had a knock on their door from the Dept of Treasury demanding documentation for time spent in Cuba. But to not know the US rules upfront is foolhardy.

 

Upfront before you board you are asked to sign a" Cuba Affidavit" found in your boarding documents, stating up front your intentions about your time in Cuba - three choices - HAL excursions only; hybrid HAL plus private arrangements; all private arrangements. HAL encourages passengers to sign the hybrid arrangement choice to ensure the most flexibility.

 

Will the US Dept of Treasury later sift through those Cuba Affidavits and contact those who stated they would also be using private arrangements? I have no idea, but everyone by now should know what the "rules" are. Pays your money and takes your chances and you did sign this Cuba Affidavit under oath.

 

I personally took only HAL tours and signed the Affidavit as such - I would be only taking HAL's preauthorized tours. Did I have to do this? No. But to simplify things that was my own personal choice.