Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[shirleygr]

. . .

This Dr. Lee does a great Mr. Moto imitation I think (1930's movies). I think I read somewhere that he was a OJ defense team expert....oh, that gives me a lot of confidence in what he has to say.

Dr Lee does alot of consulting for the defense and the prosecution. However, he has done great things for forensics in the state of CT, and for the nation as well. He helped get dna evidence to be so widely accepted. In fact, he was the first scientist to help the state (CT) prosecute a murder without a body. I am, unfortunately, very familiar with this case as it was a good friend of mine who was murdered, and her body dumped, just before her son's first birthday. If not for Dr. Lee's work on this case, the perpetrator would never have been brought to justice, and my friend's body would never have been recovered and properly put to rest. While I may not always agree with the cases he takes on, he has my respect.

[1corona4u]

Thought I'd post this partial transcript from last night's Rita Cosby show, which is where the topic of the pax list came from. The things I found outrageous are in bold;

 

 

G. SMITH: I‘m sure some people feel that, you know, once they‘ve talked to the FBI that they‘re supposed to be quiet until a grand jury or whatever is going to be, you know, brought forward. But I guess these people were so upset about what‘s been going on they decided to come out, and we‘re looking for more people to do that since we don‘t have the passenger list and we don‘t have the crew that were on that ship. And we just have no information to work with right now.

 

COSBY: Now, here it is. It‘s been more than six months. You don‘t have the passenger list.

 

G. SMITH: No, we don‘t.

 

COSBY: And you don‘t have the crew list?

 

G. SMITH: Yes.

 

COSBY: Have you asked Royal Caribbean for these materials?

 

G. SMITH: Yes, we did.

 

M. SMITH: And Eileen O‘Connor was on your show. And she said she had given most of the information to our lawyers. We do not have a passenger list. And how much of the information was not handed over?

 

B. SMITH: Very little.

 

M. SMITH: Right.

 

B. SMITH: Very little.

 

COSBY: Have you asked why they have not handed it over? Have you

asked the FBI for that information, because I would imagine the FBI has that?

M. SMITH: They work differently, the FBI. They work very definitely, don‘t they?

 

B. SMITH: Yes, they aren‘t able to provide us, really, anything substantive. But I just think it‘s very concerning where Eileen O‘Connor comes on the television and says that they‘ve...

 

COSBY: Who‘s the attorney for Royal Caribbean.

 

B. SMITH: Yes. And she‘s states that she‘s given the family most of the things that we‘ve requested, when something as basic as a passenger list and a crew list have not been given to us. I just—I think that they must be concerned about what that passenger list and crew list must lead to, because, if they don‘t want us to know who the passengers are, what are they hiding?

 

 

Basic as a pax list and a crew list? What the ---- are they thinking?? Basic....:rolleyes: I have come to the conclusion that Rita is just clueless.

[kenf333]

Basic as a pax list and a crew list? What the ---- are they thinking?? Basic....:rolleyes: I have come to the conclusion that Rita is just clueless.

 

No, im sorry but pax list should not go out in public!!!!!!!!!!!

[FinelyCruising]

Yes we know they drank alot, they were celebrating, and as most would say prior to this you could do that on a ship and have no problems. Obviously things happen on a ship just like they do in most cities. But you have to feel for everyone involved, we know RCCL did not want this to happen, nor did the Smith's. Think about what you say before you say you say you don't feel sorry. I could see you saying that if one of these people were driving drunk, but the captain was driving.

 

Ken I did think about what I said before I said it and I really don't feel sorry for either one of them. Thank God they were not driving and Thank God no one else was hurt as a result. I believe these two adults were hard core drinkers long before they got on board, but regardless of what they did before they boarded, or their lifestyle, what happened in and on that one night is a tragic conequence to each and their severe excesses of drinking this quantity of alcohol and it is all on them. And in horrible situations like this it is impossible to go back and change.

 

This was severely excessive drinking, a completely out of control and dangerous kind by two adults, not the average tipsy cruise ship celebration which looks tame by comparison.

[dalwhitt]

If I had been a passenger on that ship I wouldn't want my name handed over to an attorney. And I'm sure if the FBI has asked for the passenger list then Royal Caribbean did so. I see no reason why Royal Caribbean would hand either list over to someone who obviously is planning on suing them ... unless a judge orders them to do so.

[shirleygr]

Thought I'd post this partial transcript from last night's Rita Cosby show, which is where the topic of the pax list came from. The things I found outrageous are in bold; . . .

B. SMITH: Yes. And she‘s states that she‘s given the family most of the things that we‘ve requested, when something as basic as a passenger list and a crew list have not been given to us. I just—I think that they must be concerned about what that passenger list and crew list must lead to, because, if they don‘t want us to know who the passengers are, what are they hiding?

 

 

Basic as a pax list and a crew list? What the ---- are they thinking?? Basic....:rolleyes: I have come to the conclusion that Rita is just clueless.

 

Ok, let me get this straight. Bree Smith is an attorney and she is unfailiar with the privacy laws in the country right now?!? I would think if they were entitled to see this list, the FBI would have turned it over to them. If they get a judge to issue them a court order, I am going to be steamed. They have no right. Oh, and because RCI won't give it to them, it must contain some huge clue to the mystery? Please, give me a break. They are starting to sound so x-files right now. Conspiracy theories everywhere. Wait, let me guess, there was a second shooter! :rolleyes:

Look, I understand the family is going through the grieving process, and total irrational anger is part of that process, but this is really embarrassing. I agree that a grief counselor would be of great help to the family right now, to ease them to the next step in the process.

I am still leaning toward accident and my dh had an interesting take on it. We all know from the reports that GS was drinking heavily and was pretty well drunk by the time he was presumably alone in the cabin. What if GS suddenly felt like he was going to be sick and hurried out to the balcony to (as my teenage son would say) "hurl." My dh is of the same height as GS and thinks it would be pretty easy for him to go right over the rail with the momentum of running to the rail. I know someone else suggested he might have been standing on the chair to vomit over the side and I think that is also possible.

Anyway, have my homework for tomorrow, tracking down the financial situation of the elder Smith as I posted above. And looking forward to watching Oprah and seeing what plays out there.

Good night everyone.

[curlyd]

Apologize for what?

 

If you mean JS on Oprah I believe my friend worded it as JS feeling that RCI didn't do enough for her as a grieving wife. They should have been more understanding. She said Maria from RCI was the social director (I think that is the title she used) and that she didn't know how to be comforting. Oprah asks what more did you want them to do but JS doesn't really answer.

 

Can't wait to see it all tomorrow.

[hermang]

If you mean JS on Oprah I believe my friend worded it as JS feeling that RCI didn't do enough for her as a grieving wife. They should have been more understanding. She said Maria from RCI was the social director (I think that is the title she used) and that she didn't know how to be comforting. Oprah asks what more did you want them to do but JS doesn't really answer.

 

Can't wait to see it all tomorrow.

Turn the ship around and look for him?? Cancel the Cruise for 2000 passenegers. Seal the room and turn it into a shrine for George. Hey Lady - how about accepting some blame here

[Boatdrill]

Let's review a part of the transcript from Rita's interview with the parents:

 

"M. SMITH: And Eileen O‘Connor was on your show. And she said she had given most of the information to our lawyers. We do not have a passenger list. And how much of the information was not handed over?

 

B. SMITH: Very little.

 

M. SMITH: Right.

 

B. SMITH: Very little."

 

So according to "M.Smith" and "B.Smith", very little of the information was NOT handed over. That means most of the information WAS handed over by RCI.

[Tjukka]

Ok, let me get this straight. Bree Smith is an attorney and she is unfailiar with the privacy laws in the country right now?!? I would think if they were entitled to see this list, the FBI would have turned it over to them. If they get a judge to issue them a court order, I am going to be steamed. They have no right. Oh, and because RCI won't give it to them, it must contain some huge clue to the mystery? Please, give me a break. They are starting to sound so x-files right now. Conspiracy theories everywhere. Wait, let me guess, there was a second shooter! :rolleyes:

Look, I understand the family is going through the grieving process, and total irrational anger is part of that process, but this is really embarrassing. I agree that a grief counselor would be of great help to the family right now, to ease them to the next step in the process.

I am still leaning toward accident and my dh had an interesting take on it. We all know from the reports that GS was drinking heavily and was pretty well drunk by the time he was presumably alone in the cabin. What if GS suddenly felt like he was going to be sick and hurried out to the balcony to (as my teenage son would say) "hurl." My dh is of the same height as GS and thinks it would be pretty easy for him to go right over the rail with the momentum of running to the rail. I know someone else suggested he might have been standing on the chair to vomit over the side and I think that is also possible.

Anyway, have my homework for tomorrow, tracking down the financial situation of the elder Smith as I posted above. And looking forward to watching Oprah and seeing what plays out there.

Good night everyone.

 

Passenger lists are filed before the ship can leave or enter a port.

[wrp96]

No, im sorry but pax list should not go out in public!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Definitely agree. There hasn't been a lawsuit filed yet, so technically RCI doesn't have to give them anything. But even if there had been, I think a judge would, rightly so, deny the blanket request for passenger list. Now maybe if they requested a list of all passengers with cabins near the deceased cabin within a certain number of cabins, maybe a list of their tablemates, that's a different story.

 

U.S. privacy laws have gotten pretty strict. It's gotten to the point where in many industries you can't even leave a message on a person's voice mail telling them to call you back without prior approval. In the last couple of years, when the airlines released blanket lists of their passengers to the U.S. Government, they got in trouble for violating US privacy laws. I would think giving passenger lists to a private individual without a court order would be an even more egregious offense.

[EBFURR]

Passenger list??

 

Try going to any hotel and getting a list of people staying there & room numbers. Remember, the Smiths and their pit-bull lawyers are private citizens, not a law enforcement agency. All of the passenger information, crew information, security records and video tapes, etc. have been turned over to the proper law enforcement agency (FBI) and that is how it should be. Our nation is set up so that law enforcement does criminal investigations, not private citizens. We are not a nation of vigilante justice. RCI has given the family’s lawyers (remember, the family refuses to speak with RCI directly) all of the information that the FBI deems appropriate. The FBI has reviewed and approved all public releases of information by RCI. This is called cooperation wit the authorities.

 

First of all, if RCI releases the detailed passenger information, the Smith’s lawyers are free to harass, harangue, and coerce the passengers as they see fit. This not only leads to the possibility of more lawsuits against RCI for contributing to the harassment, but could lead to potential witness tampering by the lawyers. Anyone who has something to say is aware of the case and has had plenty of opportunity to come forward, for example, the confused couple who thought the room was being cleaned because they were not sure which cabin they were in. The FBI is talking to anyone who was on that ship that they believe might have relevant information. They are doing so with no agenda other than to find the truth. The Lawyers most definitely have an agenda; they want to find a cover-up by RCI so they can sue. Additionally, the private lawyers are not bound by the same set of laws that the FBI is, such as Miranda. Those laws, like them or not, are designed to protect witnesses. The private lawyers can spin anything they hear any way they want.

 

As another poster said, there is no civil suit yet so RCI is not compelled to release anything to the Smith’s lawyers. They are doing so voluntarily as approved by the FBI. If a suit is filed, then a judge will determine what information that RCI must provide that is relevant to their case. Again, if the criminal investigation is ongoing, or a criminal trial is pending, the FBI will have some say in this. I doubt that they will get very much more than they have now.

 

Bottom line: The Smith’s attorneys know all of this. They are just after publicity and are out to embarrass and damage RCI. They are using media people like Rita, who has less brain than earwax, to accomplish this. They know that if the FBI does find and successfully prosecute a perpetrator, they have zero case against RCI. There only hope is to interfere sufficiently with the investigation so that there is no clear resolution and they can sue RCI for mishandling the incident, destroying evidence, etc. If RCI is guilty of any of those things, the FBI will determine it. So far there is absolutely no indication that any intentional covering up or mishandling of evidence occurred.

[AFT_LOVER]

if so what did you come up with? I was a guest on a TV show locally that had our local well known psychic who has a TV show based on her. I asked her about George Smith. She told he she still feels him breathing so he isn't dead. I was glad as I have said this myself.

 

 

Gator, thanks for those Smith web sites, hummmm guess I could offer to help Dr. Moto by being his psychic reader..... I would offer my assistance to Rita, but clearly my psychic readings would have way too much credability for her.

[Maryfrei]

Well said, EB. The coverage by and of these parasites is so discouraging.

 

Last night Abrams had three guests, the net of which was zero information. And how does that Susan Filan keep getting airtime. All she can say over and over is that RCI is making vicious attacks. However, she doesn't give a single example or have any evidence to support her accusations.

 

I think when Rita says in her commercials that she makes news, we should take her at her word. She doesn't report news, she does indeed try to make news, and thereby has zero credibility with me.

 

I keep watching these broadcasts, trying to keep an open mind, and to find out the basis for the attacks on RCI. I have yet to see a single convincing example of coverup or indifference on their part. I'll watch Oprah today, and I hope we get to see something that is even handed and objective.

[AFT_LOVER]

I posted all the transcripts from Rita, Scarborough, Greta, & Abrams, so you have it all to enjoy reading just like watching the show.

 

Okay---it's taken a while but I've finally read all the postings on this thread!!! I'm so intrigued~and have some questions:

1. I haven't seen any television coverage of the couple and/or JHS after

this tragedy occured. Has she seemed grief-stricken? Does she seem to

be in shock over the loss of her new husband?

2. Is it possible that she paid the Russians/New York kids to 'off' GS?

Maybe that is why she was conveniently asleep in the hall---and got

up early before they found him missing? Therefore, her whereabouts

during the time of the tragedy were accounted for. My husband and I

were pretty big partiers in our younger days (and there were times I

felt like laying down anywhere just to pass out), but we always made it

back to our own place to crash! I know everyone keeps saying they

drank a lot, but even on my worst drinking nights when I remembered

nothing the next morning, somehow I woke up in my own bed.

3. Just a point: when GS and the guys got back to his room he wanted

to go look for JHS----but she woke up to go to a couples massage

without him? I know some have said she was mad because he wasn't

in the room, but she was the one allegedly dancing/flirting, etc. with

the casino manager earlier. Seems like he was more concerned with

her whereabouts than she was with him.

4. How about this theory? She pays the guys to 'off' GS, passes out in

the hall, the guys throw him over (hence that first big thud), move

furniture back then leave. One stays behind (Josh?) to wait for JHS &

hides on the balcony when security knocks. RCC crew members drop her

off in the room a little while later, Josh enters from the balcony (leaving

the door open a little), exits to go back to his room at 5:15 a.m.?

5. My big question: After so much heavy drinking (heavier than most

previous nights apparently?), how are all these people willingly up at

8:00 a.m. or so and not hung over beyond comprehension? I know they

are much younger than me, but even in my younger 'professional

partying' days, I felt like total crap the next morning if I drank too

much. Just food for thought: too much guilt/adrenaline coursing

through their veins?. Hmmmmmm?

 

Okay---keep those comments/theories coming! I'm lovin them! I've not seen one Greta/Rita/Oprah show yet. So I've got a lot of catching up to do!!:D

[AFT_LOVER]

the Room Service waiters who carried 3 trays of food to the stateroom with 4 guys there waiting for it. They stated in their interview that the order was enormous. So they have the timeline of the order being phoned in & by whom, the waiters seeing the 4, and the time of delivery.

 

Hey, Tray, welcome to the amateur sleuths club. Some of what you say is valid, but I have a hard time believing that JHS was directly involved. If she was, she would probably be keeping a much lower profile at this point. She seems to be pressing for an arrest. If it is as you specuate, someone is bound to "roll" on her, as they are not going to take the rap while she skates. Her behavior the next morning is a little strange - showing up so early, not changing clothes or taking a shower before a massage appointment, etc. - but can possibly be explained. If the couple did have an argument, it is possible that she just assumed that GS was just "blowing her off" and was staying with his new friends. Most of the big question marks surround the 3-4 men who were with GS and the time period between 4:05 and 4:47 AM. If they can be accounted for during that time, it was almost certainly an accident.

[AFT_LOVER]

that I still do not see her post, so I got it. Better 2 than -0-

 

 

 

That is the same one that 1corona had posted Saturday.

[Hazen]

My sympathy for the Smiths eroded when they decided to wage a dishonest "discussion" with the public. For example, they complained that RCCL never contacted them "in months", but did not disclose that their daughter ( a lawyer) had instructed them not to call on the second day. People with genuine greivances have no need to distort or shape the truth because their story if truthful will stand powerfully on its own. JHS gave a similarly edited and shaped story before Congress...stating she was forced to wear logo clothing , humiliated, left alone in Turkey with no resources. Apparently, truth and fairness have little to do with clever media manipulation or legal representation these days. And if you can create enough sympathy, it trumps personal responsibility.

[szorl]

As a Cruise Specialist for a major cruise agency, I received the 8 page rebuttal from Royal Caribbean stating the timeline of events. I do not believe that Royal Caribbean would have been insensitive to her feelings and would do everything in their power to help her out in the situation. I will always believe that there is more to the story than what she has been saying. It all comes down to taking responsibility for your actions, which she won't do, so she has to put the blame on Royal Caribbean.

[1corona4u]

As a Cruise Specialist for a major cruise agency, I received the 8 page rebuttal from Royal Caribbean stating the timeline of events. I do not believe that Royal Caribbean would have been insensitive to her feelings and would do everything in their power to help her out in the situation. I will always believe that there is more to the story than what she has been saying. It all comes down to taking responsibility for your actions, which she won't do, so she has to put the blame on Royal Caribbean.

 

It's an attempt to draw attention away from herself. Not working with me...

[rcicruiser]

Passenger list should not be given out to the Smith's or their lawyers. I would like to know what kind of lawyer Bree Smith is not avery good one I guess, if she does not know about privacy issue.

 

The Smith's would not like it if their personal information was released would they. I stopped watching Rita Crosby show because it is just so stupid some of the things she is saying. Her voice was also giving me a headache.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

shirley, my take of Dr. Lee (aka Mr. Moto) is that he is a "hired gun" who is told what the outcome wanted is, and then who develops theories and facts to support his clients desired outcome. The fact that his actions do occasional good does not make him someone I would trust. Think of it this way, an assassin will on occasion kill a bad guy...does that make the assassin a good guy (err ethical)..not to my way of thinking.

 

He was hired by DW's attorney for a reason...given what we know of that attorney is there any doubt how the selection process was handled?? Now Dr. Lee may have made enough money off of OJ to just do good works (kinda like Ken Lay and Enron), but he also may be paid big bucks for the anticapated outcome (contingent fee or otherwise).

[kenf333]

shirley, my take of Dr. Lee (aka Mr. Moto) is that he is a "hired gun" who is told what the outcome wanted is, and then who develops theories and facts to support his clients desired outcome.

 

No doubt, well said!

[canucks4]

Wolf - agree - apologize for what?

 

Just a thought - what if George lost the farm in the casino as opposed to winning. Losing thousands of dollars, embarassment, drunken state may just have been the catalyst to "jumping". From what I've read, the seapass has never been leaked by anyone at this point, it's as tight as a drum, perhaps providing further information.

 

One more thought about the appearance of the room - it's all about perspective - If I walked into my son's room right now, I'd say it was "trashed". If he walked into his room, he'd just say it was fine. :D

[Barky]

Well said, EB. The coverage by and of these parasites is so discouraging.

 

Last night Abrams had three guests, the net of which was zero information. And how does that Susan Filan keep getting airtime. All she can say over and over is that RCI is making vicious attacks. However, she doesn't give a single example or have any evidence to support her accusations.

 

I think when Rita says in her commercials that she makes news, we should take her at her word. She doesn't report news, she does indeed try to make news, and thereby has zero credibility with me.

 

I keep watching these broadcasts, trying to keep an open mind, and to find out the basis for the attacks on RCI. I have yet to see a single convincing example of coverup or indifference on their part. I'll watch Oprah today, and I hope we get to see something that is even handed and objective.

 

I agree. Susan Filan has never added any info. She has just attacked RCI over and over. And she should stop being so loud.

 

As far as Rita making the news--how true!

 

Another one I can't stand is Larry Kaye. Somebody needs to shove a cork in that guy's mouth. He is so rude. He never stops talking even when it is no longer his turn.

 

And as far as the "circus" going on the Oprah show and swaying the "housewife" viewers to Jennifer's side--I don't think so. How demeaning was that statement by the talking heads.