Compensation advice?

[cunardcruiser]

Hi all. I have just received the following e-mail from my brother who is currently on the QM2. I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give re any of his points. Thank you in advance. Dave

Hi Dave

I feel there is a problem here that your advice may benefit us.

As you may have heard on leaving Ft Lauderdale the QM2 hit something that took out one of the 4 engines. We then had to return to Ft Lauderdale to have the engine removed and we are now sailing again. Due to the delay and the reduced speed we are now missing three ports of call on the way to Rio and arriving a day late. They are offering 50% discount on the fare for 6 days. My problem is as follows and they don't seem to be too forthcoming in answering it:-

They alerted us to the fact that we were going to miss out on all three port stops on the way to Rio 5 hours after we left Ft Lauderdale and now we have a 7 day sea only journey (arr Rio 27th) trying to catch up and going to be a day late even with sailing directly. I am pissed off that they did not tell us before we left Ft Lauderdale port and that we are now in an enforced situation that we have to go to Rio with no stops. Surely they knew they were going to go direct to Rio (they had to stock up the ship and they told us 5 hours after we left) so why didnt they tell us that they were going to do that before we left so that we could have the choice of leaving the cruise which we probably would have.

Now that we have been kidnapped ! and are bound for Rio I have asked them at the pursers office on deck 9 whether the cruise from Rio round to LA will be affected in anyway. There answer is they dont know and that we will have to wait for 3 days as it depends on the speed of the vessel wind etc. We have paid over $50K for this cruise and it is fully booked. we have already had the first third ruined and been dragged to Rio albeit with some compensation. However, surely if they cannot confirm that the rest of the trip will not be affected they should be giving me back our money and flying us back to NY from Rio.

On the compensation at first hand 50% seems good but for 6 days? We left NY on 15th and reached FT Lauderdale on 17th and we left same day. We returned late on 17th due to engine problem and will be in Rio on 27th. I make it 9 days we havent been where we should have been. However, it wll be interesting to hear what you think of all three things.

 

I asked for someone to write to on board to put our problems forward and I have been given Thomas Buhler, Purser Guest services manager I think. Should I go straight to the Cruise director?

 

Thanks for any input

 

Your strandedly albeit in the lap of luxury

 

G

[Ldybrnwyn]

Hi all. I have just received the following e-mail from my brother who is currently on the QM2. I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give re any of his points. Thank you in advance. Dave

 

G

 

Well, I've studied the Terms and conditions part of the passage contract pretty thoroughly because I suspected our trip to Hawaii might be affected by all this.

 

Essentially, when you sign your ticket you agree to the passage contract which includes terms and conditions of the line. It's #7 "carrier's cancellation, deviation or interruption of cruise: Change in accomodations"

 

What it basically says, with regard to problems like this one, is that they're only obligated to do exactly what they're doing, a partial compensation at their discretion. They only provide full refunds if the trip is entirely cancelled. And, they only arrange for alternative transportation under very specific circumstances. In addition to that, they reserve the right to make these changes without advance notice....for any reason. The terms and conditions spell it out in more detail. I think it's pretty much a standard passage contract. He'd probably have gotten the same from Holland America or Royal Carribean.

 

I'm certain passengers' safety is first and foremost on their minds. They can't push the ship harder than she can handle and they wouldn't know what she can handle or what the sea has in store for them too terribly much ahead of time. In addition to that, advance notice might be a security issue. In their defense, the captain has to make the best decisions for the safety of the passengers and the ship. Trust me, I'm sure he's not happy about this either. He's got to be fuming over the Port Everglades pilot messing up his ship.

 

I'd tell him to take the 50% deal they're offering, relax and enjoy the ride. After all, he still has almost a month of wonderful experiences ahead of him :) and I'm sure Cunard won't skimp on trying to make up for the dissapointment. I'm sure the pursor's staff is more than well aware of passenger frustration. Heck, *I* understand his frustration (our cruise may potentially be affected by all of this.....especially if there are further problems) but when he signed he pretty much agreed to their conditions.

 

If he's going to pursue this, I'd tell him to just let the pursor know that he's unhappy and will be taking it up with Cunard's corporate offices when they get back. I don't think the pursor or the cruise director would really be able to do very much in terms of giving him refunds or compensation without Corporate's approval anyway.

 

Tracy

[cunardcruiser]

Thanks for reply, do you (or indeed anybody else) possibly know how compensation is paid? Is it cash or future cruise vouchers, and if the latter are the vouchers transferable?

 

Thank you

David

[Ldybrnwyn]

Thanks for reply, do you (or indeed anybody else) possibly know how compensation is paid? Is it cash or future cruise vouchers, and if the latter are the vouchers transferable?

 

Thank you

David

 

David,

 

I'm afraid I can't help you on that one. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say they'll probably apply it to the credit card you registered with the pursor's desk after you disembark. For security and convenience purposes (Cunard's convenience) I would guess that vouchers wouldn't be the way they'd go. Who knows? Maybe they'll give you a choice :)

[mufi]

I would back up all that stellrchef wrote above. We all do it - read the small print after we have a problem, and even when we read it we still accept it because "it won't happen". It is a very difficult situation for all aboard and I can understand your frustration with a situation beyond your control. It is so easy to think that the whole trip has been ruined.

 

I think you will find that the compensation will be credited to your account, and a refund paid if there is a credit due at the end of the trip.

 

David.

[colleency]

Gosh, I sure hope that the people going to Rio don't end up feeling as though their whole cruise is ruined. :(

 

It's supposed to be such a beautiful ship that it is our destination. I mean, we are going to Hawaii, but our real reason for going is the ship. If I just wanted to go to Hawaii, I'd fly there. Granted, I will be disappointed if our ports are cancelled, but I hope that I could remember that my destination is the ship. If they spend the whole trip angry about the changes, then their trip really will be ruined.

 

I'm not trying to say that people don't have a right to be angry, just that I would be so sorry to have a lovely trip to be ruined by feeling badly.

[Bollinge]

You hope you're going to Hawaii.

 

This vessel will have to go in for an unscheduled drydock, sooner rather than later, and being the biggest cruise vessel in the world, available drydocks are severely limited.

 

I hope I'm going from Rio to New York in April, but I'm not holding my breath!

[wrp96]

Actually, on the West Coast, the biggest dry docks are in Hawaii. So they will probably get to Hawaii. What happens after that, who knows.

[Ldybrnwyn]

You hope you're going to Hawaii.

 

This vessel will have to go in for an unscheduled drydock, sooner rather than later, and being the biggest cruise vessel in the world, available drydocks are severely limited.

 

I hope I'm going from Rio to New York in April, but I'm not holding my breath!

 

I've talked to quite a few ship experts about this very thing because I was so worried that might happen. Here's what I learned

 

Barring any further problems she should make Los Angeles on time.

 

The trip that's at risk is really the Ensenada trip and that's only if they choose to dry dock in San Diego's naval yard for repairs.

 

The pod is completely decommissioned and doesn't pose any threat to the ship except reduced speed. They've removed the blades so there shouldn't be a drag problem anymore.

 

There's been a lot of press about her meeting her namesake in Long Beach on the 22nd. They could reschedule it for the 25th (her Hawaii sailing) but cancelling outright would be even further embarrasment for the line, bad press and hard feelings from the City of Long Beach.

 

The Normandie lost 1 of her 4 screws and still made months of voyages relatively unaffected before pulling in for repair.

 

They could schedule a ship to ship meeting while at sea with another ship that could deliver the parts they need (if they don't already have them)

 

If the prop is all that's damaged and not the pod, they should be able to repair/replace it without dry dock. They have spares on board and it stands to reason if they were able to take it off in the water, they can put one back while she's in the water.

 

If they do need to keep it decommissioned the best dry dock options are actually in Europe at the French yard where she was built or the Franketelli yard in Italy where they plan on building the Queen Victoria. I imagine it would be much easier to get what they need while in Europe.

 

Top speed with 3 props should be about 26-28 knots and the schedule for Hawaii requires that she need only do 24 knots to keep to schedule.

 

This is, of course, barring further problems. I think the worst we're looking at is a cancellation of Ensenada so she can do repairs in San Diego (not a great option as a lot of Carnival and Cunard big wigs will be aboard that one) or losing one port in Hawaii to make up for her reduced speed if they haven't already made it up on the way to Los Angeles.

 

At least that's what I'm telling myself :p

[travel-to-go]

Thanks for reply, do you (or indeed anybody else) possibly know how compensation is paid? Is it cash or future cruise vouchers, and if the latter are the vouchers transferable?

 

Thank you

David

 

I can give you a partial hearsay answer. There were passengers on the 3 Jan sailing who missed the ship in New York due to weather. The ship was held a couple of hours, but in the end, there were more passengers with their air booked through Cunard who did not make it. These people were mighty upset, as you might guess! Cunard told them they would pay to fly them to St Thomas, to join the ship three days late. If I remember correctly (this was told to me by one of those affected) they were told to take a cab to JFK, and I believe they got air vouchers. They were told they would be credited on their onboard account for the taxi, which they were. Then they were later notified they would NOT be credited for the taxis, the credit was REMOVED from their onboard account and they were told to file a claim with their insurance! I seem to remember, though I could be wrong, that they got NO compensatin for missing three days of the cruise.

BTW, I seem to remember them saying their luggage did not make it on board. i saw a couple of folks wearing the same shirt three days in a row!

 

Does this answer your question?

And I'd take the 50%!!

If you took independent insurance, you might fare better with them. I'm not sure if people were sailing only for that leg, how they can get them there a day late (missing whatever ground or air transpo they had set up) without some sort of compensation. And sad to say, this is a very expensive ittle side trip for Cunard, logistically, and paying for the necessary repairs. I'm sure they don't want to be TOO generous!

 

As to the gent in the suites, he might check also with the regular purser, not just the 9 deck purser. I don't know whether the 9 deck pursers are as fully versed in things not pertaining to the suites. I really don't know. I'd try both!

 

And I agree with the person who said they have no way to know what lies ahead- They really don't even know the full extent of the repairs, much less the weather and currents! if anyone does know, would you please give me tonight's lottery numbers before the drawing? <G>

 

Karie

[cunardqueen]

I'm not trying to say that people don't have a right to be angry, just that I would be so sorry to have a lovely trip to be ruined by feeling badly.

 

Coollency, lm with you on that one, half full or half empty glass so to speak... when l did the maiden voyage on the New QE2 in 87 the crossing was pretty bad with unfinished work etc and we were all advised we would get refunds for the outward crossing. True to their word Cunard did deliver refunds, back then l got £300 which delighted me and hundreds of other passengers, it didnt however please others who came with the usual wont ever sail cunard etc etc.

Having been witness to the British stiff upper lip on that crossing a lot of us were %100 behind Cunard and the beloved QE2 and believe you me she was having one or two problems!!! and found the whole thing very enjoyable. and then again there were those who made time to complain about everything and they did !!! to all who would listen, newspapers TV and all.

Guess its down to the individuals if you let it spoil your cruise , then it will.

Personally ld be happy to be stuck onboard sailing down to rio, but then thats me, Stick me on QE2 and anchor her in the solent even better !!!

[Bollinge]

The compensation offer is just their opening gambit. You will probably find it improved if people are vocal enough with their dissatisfaction.

 

As has already been said, in the strict terms of the contract they are probably not obliged to offer any compensation at all, but they do so as a gesture of goodwill.

 

The Cruise Director has nothing to do with the offer. It will be down to Commodore Warwick, the Senior Purser and the Hotel Manager/Director liaising with Cunard/Princess Head Office, to offer the minimum they can get away with to retain you as a customer.

 

Let them know you are unhappy with the offer - write to the Master - and see what they come up with.

 

Usually there is a lawyer aboard who starts a "class action"!

[mufi]

If the prop is all that's damaged and not the pod, they should be able to repair/replace it without dry dock. They have spares on board and it stands to reason if they were able to take it off in the water, they can put one back while she's in the water.

:p

 

If it was just prop damage they could have replaced the damaged one with the spares carried aboard after removing the bent prop - http://www.imageevent.com/mufi/qm2crossingsjuly2005 It does look like a bolt on job. The fact that they did not would suggest that thhere is more damage than just to the prop.

 

David.

[Colin_Cameron]

Hi David, You may be right, but there's some things I don't know (maybe you do).

 

Did they get all the blades off? I assume so, but don't know. Carol Marlow said work will continue in ports along the way. This suggests to me that they ran out of time. I guess they'll either be removing the rest of the blades and/or fitting the spares. Maybe they can turn the motor with no blades fitted to see if the pod is ok or maybe they have to wait until all the blades are fitted.

 

I also think fitting the spares will be a slower job than removing the old ones. Trying to lift, and hold in place a blade weighing what? A couple of tons? Underwater. And under the ship. Doesn't sound quite as easy as tying a rope to the old blade, undoing the bolts and letting it drop. (I'm sure there's more to it than that but the principal must be similar.

 

Regards, Colin.

[mufi]

Colin - Well, they did remove the props, there is a picture of the damaged one on the board somewhere. If we consider that most of the downtime would be logistic i.e. deciding what to do and locating and transporting people with the expertise to inspect and do the job, the time needed to fit the new props after removing the damaged ones would not be great. And of course they could still do this at a suitable port given the planning time now available IF there in other damage to shaft or bearings etc. But we are all guessing.

 

David

[Sandyone]

Kidnapped is probably a pretty good word for it. I figure that they didn't tell the pax about the cancelled stops precisely because they didn't want a bunch of people jumping ship. Think of the logistics of getting all those people and their luggage off. That delay, in addition to the damage and repair delays would really have put the ship behind schedule.

 

Fifty grand on a cruise, eh? Someday, I will have that kind of money. That's pretty cool!

 

Sounds like the OP will be able to enjoy the cruise in spite of the problems.

 

Sandy

[ocngypz]

Cunard is bound by the passage contract to provide x amount of days, not ports of calls.

 

6 days x 50% prorate, reimburses you for three days. Insurance looks at that as your having been reimbursed for 3 days.

 

It is too soon to see the total "loss" for lack of a better word, but I had a similar situation with a recent transatlantic (another line). A 14 night became a 12 night due to shipyard problems. The insurance company prorated what was originally paid for the voyage, and then deducted credit from the cruiseline. It was a complete wash.

[cunardcruiser]

My brother had the compo offer wrong in the first place. Those on the cruise to Rio only, will get 50% discount, however those on either the 24 or 38 day cruise are getting the full 6 days fully reimbursed, not just 50%.

 

I have to confess I find this very reasonable. This evaluates to a refund of around $9k which I would certainly prefer over visiting a few beaches!.

 

Apparently though, there is still hell on with pax still wanting full refunds etc. Guess you can't please some of the people all of the time.

 

Also, they have been told they are missing out Montevideo altogether and 4 hours in Acapulco and getting shipboard credit of $600 in lieu.

 

Compo is being paid to credit card - no vouchers.

[Ldybrnwyn]

Kidnapped is probably a pretty good word for it. I figure that they didn't tell the pax about the cancelled stops precisely because they didn't want a bunch of people jumping ship. Think of the logistics of getting all those people and their luggage off. That delay, in addition to the damage and repair delays would really have put the ship behind schedule.

 

Fifty grand on a cruise, eh? Someday, I will have that kind of money. That's pretty cool!

 

Sounds like the OP will be able to enjoy the cruise in spite of the problems.

 

Sandy

 

Well, I don't believe they were trying to "con" people or shanghai them. I believe they felt it would have made no difference if they'd told people. There are two considerations here. They may not have been able to get around the law. QM2 is a foreign ship and as such, is not allowed to embark and disembark passengers in the US without a foreign port somewhere in between (hence the Ensenada stop on the Hawaii cruise). The second consideration is that the contract each passenger signed basically says "Look, here are some of the risks inherent with sea travel and if you board this ship you accept that something might not go as planned" I believe they were referring to just the kind of thing that happened. If there had been a more serious problem they probably would have offered a more serious compensation.