how to prove last dive?

[BermudaBell]

We are taking our first cruise in May on RC. My husband is a certified diver but has not been on a dive in a while. I saw for the excusions that you have to have dived in the last two years. Can you tell me how do you prove this to the crusie line? What will he need to show them?

 

Another question that I have is do I want to book my husband through the cruise line or with Stuart's in Nassau?

[Hilary]

I've heard that Stuart Cove won't book cruise ship passengers privately since he's the contracted dive operator for them. Is there a significant price difference?

 

The only way to "prove" your husband's last dive is with his log book. He should have it with him anyway to log the dives he does on your cruise, so if the operator asks to see it, he'll have it. On a side note, I've never had an operator ask to see my log book, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[iamkidc]

I dove at stuart cove's last year and when we called to make reservations over the phone (cheaper than going through the ship) we were told we had to book through the ship because of their contract with them.

 

as for showing a dive log book, they never even asked to see my C-Card! I had my younger cousin with us and he is only Discover suba certified (or whatever the one before open water is) because of his age, and they let him dive with who ever he wanted. Once again, didn't even ask for a C-Card. My suggestion for you husband, just make up a few logs and print them out on plain paper just incase they do ask for proof... they probably woln't.

[sea-jay]

BermudaBell - I take exception to making up dive logs as suggested by iamkidc. You didn't say how long it had been since your husband dove but you probably wouldn't have asked the question if it had been in the last two years. If your husband hasn't dove since then, I suggest he take a refresher course from a local instuctor. After all, it's not only his life he is playing with, its also his dive buddy and other's on the dive with him. I know I would not want to be buddied up with a diver that doesn't dive frequently and has not been down in over two years. Scuba diving has inherent risks involved without adding to them by doing something stupid.

 

As for 'proving' your last dive, I always have my log book with me in a plastic baggie (to keep it dry) in my dive bag. Because I don't travel (read 'cruise) :) with another diver that I know very often, my dive log is one means of logging who I dove with, email address, etc, so I can stay in touch in case we are ever on the same ship again.

 

Again, suggest he take a refresher course if only for YOUR peace of mind.

 

Happy bubbles!!

[MaraGirl]

iamkidc - what you are referring to is a "scuba diver" certification and it means that your cousin should have been diving under the direct supervision of a divemaster or instructor. There is also a depth limit of 40ft with this certification.

 

I'm surprised that Stuart Cove did not check the c-cards and most especially, if they let your cousin do a buddy dive unsupervised. That is a violation of PADI standards. Are you sure that there was not a divemaster monitoring your cousin and his buddy ?

 

You should always carry your c-card and log book with you. And never, ever, put false dives in your log book.

 

As for the original poster, the reason that the cruise ship states that a diver must have been diving in the last 2 years, is for both the safety of other divers and their liability. All cruise lines have such a rule, for example, Club Med insists upon a check-out dive if you have not dove in over a year.

 

So, please have your husband go to your local dive shop and do a check-out dive. They, will then, tell him if he needs a refresher as well.

[iamkidc]

My cousin, 14 at the time was buddied up with his father (my uncle). Their was a Divemaster in the water overseeing everyone, but not directly with them. The dive master must not have know he was supposed to stay within the 40 ft limit because he led them down to 80ft on a tour of the wall, then my cousin continued on to 90ft before turning around.

 

As for making up the dive logs... My uncle has been diving for almost 20 years and doesn't keep dive logs anymore. So it wasnt like he was "making up" logs, but more like trying to re-create his log book. Of course I wouldn't suggest some make up a dive log just to go on a dive they aren't qualified for, but if the person feels comfortable with their ability and it has been just over the 2 year cut off time I don't really see a problem with it. Stuart Cove does a lot of beginner to intermediate dives (espically with the cruise ship divers), all pretty safe if you stay within your personal limits.

[Hilary]

My cousin, 14 at the time was buddied up with his father (my uncle). Their was a Divemaster in the water overseeing everyone, but not directly with them. The dive master must not have know he was supposed to stay within the 40 ft limit because he led them down to 80ft on a tour of the wall, then my cousin continued on to 90ft before turning around.

 

As for making up the dive logs... My uncle has been diving for almost 20 years and doesn't keep dive logs anymore. So it wasnt like he was "making up" logs, but more like trying to re-create his log book. Of course I wouldn't suggest some make up a dive log just to go on a dive they aren't qualified for, but if the person feels comfortable with their ability and it has been just over the 2 year cut off time I don't really see a problem with it. Stuart Cove does a lot of beginner to intermediate dives (espically with the cruise ship divers), all pretty safe if you stay within your personal limits.

 

Stuart Cove is NOT doing beginner to intermediate dives if they are taking people down to 90'. The recommended limit for scuba diver is 40', OW is 60', with AOW being recommended down to 100'. Considering the depths that they took your cousin to without checking his c-card, that signifies a dangerous operator that I definitely will avoid in the future.

[eeg0323]

I have to agree with Hilary. I would be cautious of this opeation. Not checking C-cards and doing this deep a dive with unqualified divers is a risky proposiotn and what can give scuba a bad name. With proper training, diving is a safe and enjoyable adventure as long as you dive within your limits and training.

Remember - Plan your dive and dive your plan.

[sea-jay]

I agree with the above regarding Stuart Cove's operation. I dove with them for the first time last November and they neither checked my log book or looked at my card. However, RCCL did check my card before leaving the ship to make sure I could go on the excursion. Since Stuart Cove didn't check my card, when we hit 85 feet on the wall, we had no business being there unless we were all Advanced Certified. I know for a fact that my dive buddy on that dive was only Open Water so he shouldn't have been that deep either. I kept a close eye on him just for that reason.

 

Come to think of it. I made that same dive two years ago with DiveDiveDive operation in Nassau and also went to 85' with only open water. cert. Fortunately, our dive master on that trip was right beside me as I had advised him I had never been that deep before.

 

I guess in the long run it all depends on the individual diver and his dive buddy to stay safe and not go beyond their limits.

[cmdchiefthom]

No reputable dive operator should question a certified diver's C-card issued by an internationally recognized certifying organization such as CMAS, BSAC, PADI, YMCA, or NAUI, etc. A diver's experience level however, is another issue.

 

Dive logs, are simply a diver's account of previous experience, but not a record of a diver's qualifications. The C-card denotes the qualification. I've logged 4000 + dives, both civilian and military. No one has ever questioned my C-card., and other than in the military, and commercial diving, logs are not an issue, nor are they specifically required. However, if I can't demonstrate I can put my equipment together, or operate my BC, can't clear my mask, yada, yada yada, a reputable dive operator has every right to deny a certified diver the right to dive with them on dives with an established degree of required competence, regardless of some sort of scrapbook of real, or made up underwater excursions reflects.

 

Cruise ship SHOREX's are simply covering their butts by decreasing their potential liability by asking for the date of a diver's last logged dive. Should an accident happen, by asking the question and having a diver's signed form, the cruise line potentially is off the hook!

 

On the safety side of things, the question asked of divers by a cruise ship is simply, when was your last dive. It can alert the dive operator to potential inexperience and hence the level of diving competence. This should dictate the level of required in-water supervision by that diver operator. One Divemaster can not manage a gaggle of 10 inexperienced divers with out a certain number of assistants. Knowing the experience level of a group of divers off a Cruise ship that will be in port for less than twelve hours, gives the dive operator some idea of the potential competency of divers they may be dealing with. It simply boils down to liability should something go wrong.

 

Despite the waiver of liability a diver signs before diving, the professionals conducting the dive remain legally responsible based on their level of certification and training. However, there is an equal responsibility for the diver who takes the excursion to have the experience and competency to meet the established standards at their level of certification. What is the discriminator? A dive log-book? I think not.

 

A couple of years ago, on a dive I booked on NCL in St. Lucia, all divers, were required to perform basic SCUBA skills in shallow water before begining the first of two dives. These skills included assembly of equipment, mask clearing, buddy breathing, removal of the tank assembly, and bouyancy control. Despite my mutiple certifications, I didn't object, and I actually felt more comfortable in my group, simply because I didn't feel I, as the tourist, and probably the most experienced diver in the group, I had to be concerned about the diving compentency of any diver I was in the water with, on that particular day.

 

Dive logs simply preserve memories. I still have my first log book entry from 2 May, 1962....Lake Michigan....cold...cold....sand....sand....max depth 45'...55min. What does that prove?:eek:

[appletini02]

If you are going to Nassau, book privavetly through Nassau Scuba Center, they are excelent!!!

As for proving your last dive, I wouldn't worry about it, we have never actaully been asked to see our log book. Don't know what he experience is but he may want to consider is taking a refresher course through a local dive shop. It will help him be a little more confident in the water. They are fairly cheap!

You will have to have your card though, that is a must!!!

[Hilary]

Unfortunately Nassau Scuba Centre went out of business last July. Stuart Cove is quickly becoming the "only game in town" in Nassau.

 

My problem with Stuart Cove is their failure to even CHECK for c-cards in the two examples above. A "scuba diver certification" isn't the same as an OW one, and IMO the operator has more responsibility to follow the guidelines set forth by PADI.

[Capt_BJ]

No reputable dive operator should question a certified diver's C-card issued by an internationally recognized certifying organization such as CMAS, BSAC, PADI, YMCA, or NAUI, etc. A diver's experience level however, is another issue.

 

Dive logs, are simply a diver's account of previous experience, but not a record of a diver's qualifications. The C-card denotes the qualification. I've logged 4000 + dives, both civilian and military. No one has ever questioned my C-card., and other than in the military, and commercial diving, logs are not an issue, nor are they specifically required. However, if I can't demonstrate I can put my equipment together, or operate my BC, can't clear my mask, yada, yada yada, a reputable dive operator has every right to deny a certified diver the right to dive with them on dives with an established degree of required competence, regardless of some sort of scrapbook of real, or made up underwater excursions reflects.

 

Cruise ship SHOREX's are simply covering their butts by decreasing their potential liability by asking for the date of a diver's last logged dive. Should an accident happen, by asking the question and having a diver's signed form, the cruise line potentially is off the hook!

 

On the safety side of things, the question asked of divers by a cruise ship is simply, when was your last dive. It can alert the dive operator to potential inexperience and hence the level of diving competence. This should dictate the level of required in-water supervision by that diver operator. One Divemaster can not manage a gaggle of 10 inexperienced divers with out a certain number of assistants. Knowing the experience level of a group of divers off a Cruise ship that will be in port for less than twelve hours, gives the dive operator some idea of the potential competency of divers they may be dealing with. It simply boils down to liability should something go wrong.

 

Despite the waiver of liability a diver signs before diving, the professionals conducting the dive remain legally responsible based on their level of certification and training. However, there is an equal responsibility for the diver who takes the excursion to have the experience and competency to meet the established standards at their level of certification. What is the discriminator? A dive log-book? I think not.

 

A couple of years ago, on a dive I booked on NCL in St. Lucia, all divers, were required to perform basic SCUBA skills in shallow water before begining the first of two dives. These skills included assembly of equipment, mask clearing, buddy breathing, removal of the tank assembly, and bouyancy control. Despite my mutiple certifications, I didn't object, and I actually felt more comfortable in my group, simply because I didn't feel I, as the tourist, and probably the most experienced diver in the group, I had to be concerned about the diving compentency of any diver I was in the water with, on that particular day.

 

Dive logs simply preserve memories. I still have my first log book entry from 2 May, 1962....Lake Michigan....cold...cold....sand....sand....max depth 45'...55min. What does that prove?:eek:

 

yep - asking when last dive was is just an attempt at a get out of jail free card for liability it may not mean a thing

 

who's skills are better?

 

- PADI open water certified, last dive 6 weeks ago, total number of logged dives, 10

 

- NAUI dive master certified, last dive 25 months ago, totla number of logged dives 2500+

 

I always chuckle at the 'last dive when' question. And I have never been asked to produce a log book. However typically on boarding a boat where they are not familiar with me they get around to asking, "how many dives have you got." When I tell them...and ask to set up my own gear, and know exactly how much weight I want (not 'about 10) and not 'what do you think')... well they move on to the next group.

 

Of course if I bring my own gear, my 2 hose single stage regulator tends to freak 'em out! SEA HUNT RULES!

[captainron]

Hi,

I was NAUI certified in Aug 1973 and to this date still have my original C Card showing my instructor's signature and my NAUI registration number.

 

I have dived with current, done nite dives, wreck dives, deep dives (max 147 feet), shallow river/creek dive with vis less than a yard looking and feeling the bottom for a child's body (which I found) and because of the age of my card and the year it was issued, it says "SCUBA DIVER".

 

I believe that education of all facets of diving is important for safety and the development of a diver, however I don't have to log 2500 dives to be qualified or take a specific course to be experienced. To have dived a dive on several occasions with a qualified divemaster over th eperiod of 33 years, I feel quite comfortable at anywhere from 35-147 feet, open water or other. Each dive is a new experience anyway no matter if you've dived the same place on numerous occasions or not.

 

Two experiences to go...my next wish is to experience a cave dive and secondly to dive the Blue Hole in Belize.

 

Keep blowing bubbles everyone, and...

 

Ciao for now!!!

 

[cruzegirl]

Thom,

I don't think the posters commenting on the asking to see the C-cards are talking about them being questioned but to verify they are indeed a certified diver and what training they have..I think that's a good thing and everyone should be verified.. I know someone who once said, "I swim well, snorkel well and maybe I'll just go on a dive to see how it is"... this person was never certified but he thought the dive op. would never know... how scary is that... And if Stuart Cove isn't checking C-cards, that's a shame... And I thought a violation of the PADI rules.. And if you have OW divers, why are they being taken to 85-100 feet?? That's how divers get into trouble.. Plus checking log books justs verifies a diver has dove recently... Though I understand those with 2000+ dives might find it a pain to keep a book at that point...

My ship excursion on Maui was with Lahaina Divers.. Even though it was a large dive boat, they had so many divemasters that it was amazing.. We were divided into groups of similar experiences and levels.. Worked out really well...

[MoneyGuy]

My suggestion for you husband, just make up a few logs and print them out on plain paper just incase they do ask for proof... they probably woln't.

 

Crap, I hope you're not my dive buddy. :eek:

[cruzegirl]

Ditto..... that scares the he** out of me to think people do that...:eek:

[cmdchiefthom]

Cruzegirl,

 

I totally agree regarding th C-card. No ticky....no-washy!:eek: No C-card, no diving. Its the bogus request to somehow qualify the certification card with the date of a diver's last dive. I know the purpose behind it, and mentioned it in my previous post. However, it puts many divers in the position of making up dives they've not made within the previous 365 days in order not to be refused the booking. I know of many experienced divers who only dive on vacations to the warmer climes like Florida and the Caribbean. The length of time between these excursions may exceed the arbitrary timeframe of one year. There are considered fully certified by the international certifying organizations, but that only indicates they have successfully completed the couse of instruction. The dilemma for the dive operator is that diver's in-water competency, and quantifying that competency. Even if that were possible, it doesn't reduce the risk of an incident, just perhaps, the outcome.

 

Here's where the dive operator's Divemaster's position and competency needs to be questioned. A Divemaster is responsible for the safety of the divers assigned to him or her. Divemasters are what their title infers, "masters of the dive." They are responsible for every aspect of the dive from equipment checks, the planning the dive and diving the plan, and even assigning appropriately paired dive buddies. In a very short period of time, often the length of the boat trip from shore to the dive site, they must assess the qualifications of each and every diver under their supervision and plan the dive accordingly. This is always a daunting task, especially when performing this service for divers such as those on cruise ships who show up in the morning, and leave in the early afternoon. Knowing when their last dive was made can help make a Divemaster's decisions somewhat more objective. The key concept here is that the Divemaster MUST make these decisions. Therfore, dive operators must employ highly qualified Divemasters and not just underwater guides. Dive logs do not make up for poorly qualified Divemasters, nor reduce the dive operators liability.

 

In my pervious post, I mentioned the liability issue for both the cruiseline and the dive operator. Liability is a huge issue in diving and everyone involved in the industry is accutely aware of this issue. It drives many of the procedures, both technical and administrative we follow today. As of yet however, unlike in aviation for instance, divers are encouraged, although not required, to maintain a certified dive log. Until the international certifying organizations determine that this is a requirement to dive, the C-card is the only documentation a diver needs in order to dive.

 

I don't know the answer to this question, but perhaps someone reading this post does. Has anyone ever been denied a dive excursion based on the length of time that had elapsed since their last dive? I'd really be interested in hearing if this has happened and the reasons given for that decision.

[cruzegirl]

I totally agree with you Thom.. the dive operators have a daunting task ahead.... and the liability is huge... And today for example, I dove in California.. First off can I just say, "it was freaking cold"....lol.. But I was paired up with 2 male divers... One can I say was awesome... The other one is decent but so worried with photography that we kept losing him, waiting for him... it was frustrating.... we got caught in kelp, worried about the camera....ugh.... But all in all on "ok" day....

I'm starting to understand those who say they will only dive in warm water.. lol.... It was 51 degrees.... :eek:

[cmdchiefthom]

Cruzegirl, Fifty-one degrees???? Hope you had a drysuit.;) I used to do a lot of diving out of San Diego when I owned the Albuquerque Diver's Den. We'd take the 65' "Bottom Scratcher" on 2 1/2 day trips our to San Clemente Island. Great diving, but you're right, it sure got cold! :eek: I can't wait to hit the RMS Rhone again in April for that warm water fix!:D

[cruzegirl]

No drysuit Thom....lol.... Though I was sure eyeing everyone elses...:p I am starting to think I'm insane. Not sure if I'm trying to convince everyone else or myself how "tough" I am diving in the winter. But I'm ready to surrender and wait til April.....lol....:D The surface was the real issue... Freezing cold and then that surge/swell trying to get on.. Was like an "E" ticket ride at Disney for those of us old enough to remember that....:rolleyes:

[cmdchiefthom]

Cruzegirl,

 

I noticed your diving next December in Roatan and Cozumel? I have some friends who have a dive operation at the Yacht Club in Roatan and a guy who owns the Yucab III in Cozumel. Let me know if you might be interested in diving with them.;)

[Woodsmaster]

Dive operators will ask for them. Some operators will always ask for them to make sure that the divers are who they are... at least in their dive logs.

 

I have had some look at them and comment on places we have dove. Others just flipped through the log to "see how many logged dives were in them".

 

Easiest way to prove it is with your dive log. Other than that, it's your word. If he doesn't trust your word, then you may not be diving. The easy part is to always make a check out dive or two at a local lake, sand pit, "open water" site before you go. Then you have dove in the last 30-60 days.

[cruzegirl]

Hey Thom,

Yes, I will be diving this December.... I'm with a group cruise on C.C....

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=245

Thanks for the info. Our group leader already has the dive excursions planned.... I may for go Cozumel.. I'm real nervous about doing a drift dive as I've never done one.... Hoping to somehow get some experience with before December....

Woodsmaster,

I would hope the dive operators would check things. The liability for themselves is immense.. I would want to know everyone was up to snuff..

[EmJakeBubbie]

I just wanted to hang out with y'all for a spell:rolleyes: - miss my diving days like crazy - the memories!:D OK, so anyone fudging on what they are certified to do is just asking for trouble, IMHO. Scariest dive was in Cancun - small boat / didn't check c-card / etc.etc. WOW! terrible currents against which we were 'swimming' - sucked up air like crazy! NOT SAFE and had we been the slightest inexperienced, we could have had trouble, cuz the 'dive master' sure wasn't keeping his eye on us. OK, now another story: diving at the base of the Pitons - one hurricane hit the week prior and another was heading that way. Water very churned up - visibility a big challenge, never mind the halocline that made it very difficult to see. We were 2 sets of buddies. DH & I were holding hands as he is the better navigator - the other set of buddies didn't know each other and were not holding hands. One "forgot" to keep her eye on her buddy and of course, GotSeparated! We saw what happened, got to the remaining buddy and I held her hand, too (for which she later expressed her appreciation). It took precious air to locate the missing buddy, but we finally did - she was oblivious to what she had done!:mad: So, be careful out there. May each of you continue to enjoy the seas always, and all ways.