New Carnival "have fun, be safe" protocols.

[harkinmr]

Just now, kdr69 said:

I rather think its like the weather right now if you dont like it wait 5 minutes it will change.....

It has changed significantly for vaccinated cruisers and rightly so.  It will be a lot easier for cruise lines to manage and operate fully vaccinated cruises.  Some, like Carnival, are choosing to do things the hard way.  That's their call.

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

It's not at all similar to a hotel operation.

Guess someone should tell the Ship hotel manager that.... You have Guest rooms, You have housecleaning, You have dining, You have bar service, you have pools, you have front desk, you have people,  so? how is it not like a hotel? 

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

Some, like Carnival, are choosing to do things the hard way.  That's their call.

but isnt it RCL that has the first Test cruise approval?  

[harkinmr]

6 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Guess someone should tell the Ship hotel manager that.... You have Guest rooms, You have housecleaning, You have dining, You have bar service, you have pools, you have front desk, you have people,  so? how is it not like a hotel? 

Housekeepers, bartenders, front desk staff all LIVE and work with each other for months at a time on a cruise ship.  Last I checked, not too many traditional hotel staff are doing so. You have guests, but those guests rotate within a day or so most often. Those guests also are not eating with each other regularly, going to bars or other entertainment venues together regularly, or any of the other things passengers do together on a cruise.  Not the same as a traditional hotel at all.

[BrotherCraig]

18 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

No, they are not. And the CDC has no control over hotels or how they function. Cruise ships are groups of crew living together for extended periods of time.  Those crew then interact with passengers for extended periods of time, who are likewise interacting with other passengers in close quarters for extended periods of time.  It's not at all similar to a hotel operation.

 

 

I was kidding.  "lol" 

[harkinmr]

11 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

but isnt it RCL that has the first Test cruise approval?  

Yes.  They will be doing some sort of "hybrid" cruise too.  I believe that their CEO has publicly stated that the protocols will be different for hybrid sailings than for vaccinated ones, therefor the need for test cruises.  Carnival will have to do test cruises too, including testing all of the protocols.  Have they said where they are in that process?  Time is ticking for a July restart...

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

Housekeepers, bartenders, front desk staff all LIVE and work with each other for months at a time on a cruise ship.  Last I checked, not too many traditional hotel staff are doing so. You have guests, but those guests rotate within a day or so most often. Those guests also are not eating with each other regularly, going to bars or other entertainment venues together regularly, or any of the other things passengers do together on a cruise.  Not the same as a traditional hotel at all.

ok well last i checked it doesnt take "months" of living together to catch COVID only hours.  Your explanation of interactions on a cruise ship is quite different from my explanation of interactions on a cruise ship because i do all those things you mentioned by myself or with my family not WITH the other cruise passengers they just happen to be on the same ship as me going to the same places as me.  Much like the guests in a hotel.  Goes to show how two different people can have two different points of view on the same subject much like two people looking at a painting and seeing it two different ways.

[kdr69]

8 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

They will be doing some sort of "hybrid" cruise too

Its not a "hybrid" cruise its a Test Cruise as laid out in the CSO framework for those Cruise lines that dont wish to sail within the 98/95 vaccinated guideline.  So RCI is doing both because as they stated the 98/95 guideline does not suit their requirements when it comes to families.  No different than what Carnival has been saying all along.  Where Carnival is at in the application process i have no clue but im sure we will find out soon enough.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

ok well last i checked it doesnt take "months" of living together to catch COVID only hours.  Your explanation of interactions on a cruise ship is quite different from my explanation of interactions on a cruise ship because i do all those things you mentioned by myself or with my family not WITH the other cruise passengers they just happen to be on the same ship as me going to the same places as me.  Much like the guests in a hotel.  Goes to show how two different people can have two different points of view on the same subject much like two people looking at a painting and seeing it two different ways.

We obviously do see things differently.  The fact is though that the CDC sees a difference in cruise ships and traditional hotels, and on top of that has the ability to control them legally.  At least for now.  

[harkinmr]

Just now, kdr69 said:

Its not a "hybrid" cruise its a Test Cruise as laid out in the CSO framework for those Cruise lines that dont wish to sail within the 98/95 vaccinated guideline.  So RCI is doing both because as they stated the 98/95 guideline does not suit their requirements when it comes to families.  No different than what Carnival has been saying all along.  Where Carnival is at in the application process i have no clue but im sure we will find out soon enough.

We are saying the same thing.  They will be doing test cruises because they plan on some sailings outside the 95/98% framework.  They anticipate having both vaccinated and unvaccinated guests.  That is a "hybrid" cruise in my book.  Call it whatever you want.  Given that we are at the end of May and Carnival is talking about cruising in early July, it would seem that "soon enough" is now.  JMO.

[kdr69]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

We obviously do see things differently.  The fact is though that the CDC sees a difference in cruise ships and traditional hotels, and on top of that has the ability to control them legally.  At least for now.  

True enough I think they group Cruise ships in the same category as prisons?  Their having the legal ability control them and not care or take into consideration how others are doing it and were doing it this way cause we know better viewpoint is whats causing all the issues in my opinion.

[harkinmr]

Just now, kdr69 said:

True enough I think they group Cruise ships in the same category as prisons?  Their having the legal ability control them and not care or take into consideration how others are doing it and were doing it this way cause we know better viewpoint is whats causing all the issues in my opinion.

How do you know what they are taking into consideration and not?  The cruise lines have been working with the CDC since early April and progress has been made.  And the other cruises elsewhere that you are referring to have very strict protocols in place and answer to local government authorities just like in the US.  The lines have been given a couple different plans to restart.  The ball is in their court.  Let's get it done.

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

Let's get it done.

500% Agreed

[Knights on the Beach]

42 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Housekeepers, bartenders, front desk staff all LIVE and work with each other for months at a time on a cruise ship.  Last I checked, not too many traditional hotel staff are doing so. You have guests, but those guests rotate within a day or so most often. Those guests also are not eating with each other regularly, going to bars or other entertainment venues together regularly, or any of the other things passengers do together on a cruise.  Not the same as a traditional hotel at all.

So lets compare a cruise ship to my timeshare in Key West.  The employees don't live on site but many of the same ones are there every day.  Most of the guest are there all week, just like we are.  We spend a lot of time in the pool every day with those same guests.  We typically stay there a few times each year and know a lot of the other guests, but meet new ones each time.  And yes, we do go to bars and restaurants with some of them, or run into them somewhere and share a table or sit next to them at the bar.  I guess it's more like a cruise ship than your version of a hotel (though when we travel en masse for UCF football games, the hotel is often more similar to our timeshare or a cruise ship).

[bdever]

Delete - found the answer in a different thread

Edited May 26, 2021 by bdever

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, cruisemom2 said:

So lets compare a cruise ship to my timeshare in Key West.  The employees don't live on site but many of the same ones are there every day.  Most of the guest are there all week, just like we are.  We spend a lot of time in the pool every day with those same guests.  We typically stay there a few times each year and know a lot of the other guests, but meet new ones each time.  And yes, we do go to bars and restaurants with some of them, or run into them somewhere and share a table or sit next to them at the bar.  I guess it's more like a cruise ship than your version of a hotel (though when we travel en masse for UCF football games, the hotel is often more similar to our timeshare or a cruise ship).

Whether you think a cruise ship is like a timeshare or a traditional hotel doesn't really matter in the long run.  It also doesn't matter what my definition of a traditional hotel is versus a cruise ship.  What matters is that the CDC does not classify the experience as a traditional hotel AND the CDC has the legal ability to designate rules and regulations for cruise lines, but not traditional hotels.  Those are governed by state and local authorities.  The CDC has decided that certain protocols will apply and the conditions under which ships can sail.  Until that legal authority goes away, the cruise lines have to work within the frameworks provided.  I think they get that now and are making choices in how they will sail.  The ball is in their court now and they need to get this done.  

[ellenluvs2cruise]

2 hours ago, sammee said:

Best answer yet. It's interesting reading the changes, but I'm not going to believe anything one way or the other until we are boarding, lol. Getting whiplash from the bouncing around.

was just saying hi Samee......whiting NJ here......you too ?   

[harkinmr]

The benefits of being fully vaccinated on a fully vaccinated cruise ship.  Changes today from the CDC:

 

Fully Vaccinated Travelers

• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that—if they are fully vaccinated—they may gather or conduct activities outdoors, including engaging in extended meal service or beverage consumption, without wearing a mask.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise crew who are fully vaccinated that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in areas of the ship that are inaccessible to passengers.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets).
• For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas.

[bdever]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The benefits of being fully vaccinated on a fully vaccinated cruise ship.  Changes today from the CDC:

 

Fully Vaccinated Travelers

• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that—if they are fully vaccinated—they may gather or conduct activities outdoors, including engaging in extended meal service or beverage consumption, without wearing a mask.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise crew who are fully vaccinated that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in areas of the ship that are inaccessible to passengers.
• Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets).
• For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas.

Posted this in the other thread concerning the CDC update:

“Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may...”

Realistically, if Carnival is not going to sail with all vaccinated passengers they are either going to have to enforce a mask mandate on unvaccinated passengers or come up with a way where they don’t have to police or enforce anything. 
I don’t think Carnival wants to be in the position of being mask police so the only way around it would be to 

a) give passengers who are vaccinated or unvaccinated visible identification such as wristbands 

b) make everyone wear a mask regardless of vaccination status
 

thoughts????

[harkinmr]

5 minutes ago, bdever said:

Posted this in the other thread concerning the CDC update:

 

“Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may...”

Realistically, if Carnival is not going to sail with all vaccinated passengers they are either going to have to enforce a mask mandate on unvaccinated passengers or come up with a way where they don’t have to police or enforce anything. 
I don’t think Carnival wants to be in the position of being mask police so the only way around it would be to 

a) give passengers who are vaccinated or unvaccinated visible identification such as wristbands 

b) make everyone wear a mask regardless of vaccination status
 

thoughts????

I'm not sure how a cruise line would police vaccinated versus non-vaccinated mask wearing.  There's not enough crew to be constantly monitoring who is or isn't supposed to be masked based on wristbands and the like.  If Carnival went with everyone other than those under eligible vaccine age, then masks on kids would be easier to manage.  If they have a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated adults it becomes a considerable bit harder.  Honestly, I think it will be all protocols apply to everyone on hybrid cruises.  Or maybe they do designated areas for vaccinated non-mask wearing.  Still could be a challenge and I could see a lot of unhappy people either way.

[bdever]

5 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

I'm not sure how a cruise line would police vaccinated versus non-vaccinated mask wearing.  There's not enough crew to be constantly monitoring who is or isn't supposed to be masked based on wristbands and the like.  If Carnival went with everyone other than those under eligible vaccine age, then masks on kids would be easier to manage.  If they have a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated adults it becomes a considerable bit harder.  Honestly, I think it will be all protocols apply to everyone on hybrid cruises.  Or maybe they do designated areas for vaccinated non-mask wearing.  Still could be a challenge and I could see a lot of unhappy people either way.

That was my thought as well. Just easier for Carnival to say, same protocols for everyone and just be done with it. 

[balcony bound]

I think once things get beyond the initial couple of months cruising with the mandates from CDC they MAY just drop mandates altogether.  I'm sure some of the changes for cruising may stay, but the future looks different than the start up procedures.

[jsglow]

The biggest thing for me is testing.  I got tested to go to Maui in April at my own expense.  It was stressful as there was always a chance a positive could have popped up, even a false one.  I'm not prepared to be turned away at the dock as a healthy, fully vaccinated person.  I am prepared to wear a mask on a limited basis (like at shows, for example) and I trust that these protocols will diminish over time.

[stellarose]

3 minutes ago, jsglow said:

The biggest thing for me is testing.  I got tested to go to Maui in April at my own expense.  It was stressful as there was always a chance a positive could have popped up, even a false one.  I'm not prepared to be turned away at the dock as a healthy, fully vaccinated person.  I am prepared to wear a mask on a limited basis (like at shows, for example) and I trust that these protocols will diminish over time.

agree Jsglow. 

 

I want to be get on the ship. I am vaccinated. I can show my documentation from my doc and my card.  I will wear at a show, but outside , pool. nope.  

[jsglow]

So reading the updated guidance there seems to be an easy solution.  Carnival should separately run both fully vaccinated and 'blended' cruises.  On fully vaxxed cruises, the completely relaxed protocols are in place.  On 'blended', certain things like embarkation testing can be waived with paperwork but others such as indoor masking remain.  That should be easy to work out for the first couple months of operations.  And they don't lose a segment of their clientele in the process.