Queen Victoria - Anything But a Vista Class...

[bepsf]

Deckplans and photos were released today:

http://www.cunard.co.uk/QS-06$$/

 

Quite a few differences, but some vague similarities too...

 

...I wonder how many of these features will be integrated into the Signature Class?

[JimandStan]

Brian-

They've upgraded her significantly, as now she is officially to be the QE2 replacement ship.

Long Live the Queen!

[Bramcruiser]

I think she's a beaut but the Cunard crowd certainly are all huffing and puffing.

[dougnewmanatsea]

now she is officially to be the QE2 replacement ship.

There is no official replacement for QE2, nor any official retirement date. She will remain in service at least through 2010 and a life extension program for an additional 10 to 15 years is currently being studied.

 

As for my thoughts on QUEEN VICTORIA, see here.

 

She is substantially a Vista-class, with some modifications.

[herb]

I think she's a beaut but the Cunard crowd certainly are all huffing and puffing.

 

Why is the Cunard crowd upset? I checked out the link, and from what I saw the ship looked beautiful. Not sure whether that would be my type of cruise, but the pictures did look nice.

[Bramcruiser]

Well Herb:

 

Nothing against the Cunard crowd because they are a nice lot too over on that board. However there a fair bit of loyalty towards the QE2 and thus everything seems to pale in comparison. I think the day the QE2 retires there will be a lot of sobbing amongst the Cunarders. I figure they'll just have to give Victoria some time.

[babyher]

Bramcruiser

 

You are so right.

 

We have been talking a lot recently here about the HAL Loyalists loving and wanting to preserve the traditions on their ships . I think that feeling is 10 fold when it comes to QE2. A lot of love for and a lot of History on that ship. I mean there were people once talking about the days The Duke and Duchess of Windsor would have tea in such and such lounge , or when Noel Coward board with 20 steamer trunks and entertain the pax in such and such bar.

 

Like you said , there are a lot of very nice people on that board. A while back I posted a question I had about a trip my wife and I were thinking about and so many people answered and were very nice and helpful.

 

I have not seen the pics of the Queen Victoria yet, but there is a thread on the Cunard board now that someone posted something which includes a list of the ships features and it really sounds beautiful:)

 

Come on Powerball!!!!!!!!!! *LOL* PAPA needs a cruise :)

[RevNeal]

She sure is lovely.

I will definitely have to try her out.

 

:D

[dougnewmanatsea]

Why is the Cunard crowd upset?

Well, you can try reading this thread on the Cunard board and you can see the "huffing and puffing" for yourself ;) !

 

However there a fair bit of loyalty towards the QE2 and thus everything seems to pale in comparison.

I think to say there is "a fair bit of loyalty towards QE2" is something of an understatement!

 

There is the reality of QE2 and then there is the myth of QE2, and happily the line between the two tends to blur and suddenly the myth becomes the reality. For many people, myself included, there is no other ship in service today that can stir up the same sort of emotion. I don't think there can be much argument that QE2 is quite simply the most-loved ship in the world today... She may even be the most-loved ship ever. There is something very special about her and when a new ship gets put up as being her equal, her consort if you will, it is hard for that ship not to come up short.

 

I guess QM2 will probably acheive the same sort of status one day, but that's a long way off. She is young yet, and she will need time to mature. QE2 has been around for 37 years and it will take a very long time for QM2 to gain the sort of following she has. I've been on both ships (though I've only sailed in QE2) and while QM2 is a magnificent vessel, she simply hasn't had the time to develop the character that QE2 has. She is shiny and new and frankly, that takes away from her appeal. Of course the older ship has her blemishes and her flaws but somehow those just make her more charming and irresistible!

 

Oh well, now I'm fawning over QE2... I really shouldn't, at least not on the HAL board! If it's any consolation, HAL is still my favorite line, but ever since the old ROTTERDAM left - and I will never forgive myself for not having sailed in that dear old ship, which is still very special to me as the last real liner HAL ever had and also as a ship that I have a lot of family ties to - they have not had anything that can compare with QE2. I suppose once QE2 retires, nobody will have anything to compare with QE2! At least there will still be QM2, which will still do regular North Atlantic crossings and will, I guess, be able to accomodate all the QE2 fans out there so we can (regardless of our age) act like crochety old people and tell each other how much better it was in the Good Old Days ;) ...

 

(QE2 was once like this, and the passengers would talk about the Good Old Days of the original QUEENs. Now, QE2 has been around for so long that her own career has become the Good Old Days!)

 

But QE2 is one of those ships that is really unique, that nobody will ever be able to replicate or replace.

 

I think the day the QE2 retires there will be a lot of sobbing amongst the Cunarders.

It will be a very sad day. Keep in mind that at 37 years old, this is a ship that is older than some of her fans (myself included) - there are those of us who literally have not known a world without QE2 so yes, it will be a big blow when she finally does go.

 

I figure they'll just have to give Victoria some time.

She will never reach the same level that QE2 has. There is the possibility that QM2 will someday, but QV will not. This is why I and many others have always adamantly felt that she should not be called a QUEEN. I don't object to Cunard building the ship; indeed, it's great to see them successful and growing for the first time in so many years, but she is still just a cruise ship and will never be the equal of a real liner like QE2 or QM2. She should have a nice "cruising" name like FRANCONIA or CARMANIA... And then, honestly, she would not be scrutinized so closely and a lot of us would be willing to give her a lot more leeway. But if Cunard insist on calling her a QUEEN and worse yet, calling her a liner (which, having not been designed for liner voyages, she is definitely not), then she will be held up to the example of her predecessors and even if she is a wonderful cruise ship she will still fall short. A cruise ship is not a liner and honestly Cunard ought not to be trying to pass one off as such.

 

I think that feeling is 10 fold when it comes to QE2.

It is a hundredfold, at least!

 

Even I lament many of the changes that have been made to QE2 and I never even knew her in her original form!

[bepsf]

Well Doug, the interiors are way too 'Traditional/English Oak' for me...

...but if they went too 'Brass & Glass', we'd just have another Princess Ship, wouldn't we?

 

I am glad seeing the deckplans that they made efforts to create something unique - Arcadia just wouldn't have been appropriate at all as a Cunarder without the double height rooms and grand suites.

 

I do like the Grill Room arrangement at the top of the ship - something like that will be a nice addition to the Signature Class

I also like the big curved teak viewing area on Deck 5 forward

And the layout of the Royal Theatre seems good - note the lack of obstructing pillars? Good layout for Signature...

But the arrangement of the Britannia Restaurant is just sad - so typical lopsided Vista Class - you'd think that they could have done a nice symmetrical Spirit Class layout (which I hope HAL goes to for Signature Class)

[dougnewmanatsea]

Well Doug, the interiors are way too 'Traditional/English Oak' for me...

I have to agree with you there - they are not my taste. But aside from a few rooms (e.g. the Queens Room and Royal Court) they don't look bad - just not my style.

if they went too 'Brass & Glass', we'd just have another Princess Ship, wouldn't we?

I don't like those very much either ;) !

 

At least QUEEN VICTORIA will not be as bland as a Princess ship...

 

As for everything else you say, I agree entirely. Even though her interiors are "not my style" and I still don't agree with the name and (especially) with calling her a "liner", she will still make a far better Cunarder than ARCADIA would have. That, I think, would have been a big mistake.

[KenC]

Well, you can try reading ... on the Cunard board and you can see the "huffing and puffing" for yourself ;) ! ............. I think to say there is "a fair bit of loyalty towards QE2" is something of an understatement!................There is the reality of QE2 and then there is the myth of QE2, and happily the line between the two tends to blur and suddenly the myth becomes the reality. For many people, myself included, there is no other ship in service today that can stir up the same sort of emotion. I don't think there can be much argument that QE2 is quite simply the most-loved ship in the world today... She may even be the most-loved ship ever. ..... Of course the older ship has her blemishes and her flaws but somehow those just make her more charming and irresistible! ................Oh well, now I'm fawning over QE2... I really shouldn't, ......It will be a very sad day. Keep in mind that at 37 years old, this is a ship that is older than some of her fans (myself included) - there are those of us who literally have not known a world without QE2 so yes, it will be a big blow when she finally does go....................

 

Oh Doug have you have been spending too much time with the huffers and puffers on the Cunard Board!!!

 

For many of us the myth of QE2 is not sufficient to blind us to the inadequacies of this ship, especially in the 21st century - and believe me, I grew up with her, watched the launch, dreamed of sailing on her .... but oh the disappointment of the reality both in 1989 and 2005. For me, once QE2 is gone perhaps there will be something with real charm and less myth to take her place and I look forward to that. Nostalgia can be a very debilitating emotion - and for me nostalgia for something as recent as the 1970's is difficult to comprehend. Every dog has its day and I think it's slightly demeaning for a ship of such longevity to be kept past her sell by date 'as long as people are prepared to sail on her'! Perhaps Carnival are intending to send her to Australia with all the other second hand tonnage gone that way - 'Pacific Queen'???? Also, I think you would find the original Queen Mary probably being far more 'loved' in her day than the QE2 is today.

 

As far as the Vista theme goes, it seems that they have lengthened and tweeked the basic format, broken through a deck here or there to create double height rooms and used the same formula of interior design as QM2 to create a hybrid which, if the attention to detail is as good as on QM2, will present an excellent 'cruise liner' (whatever that phrase may mean)!

 

As far as Arcadia (QVI) is concerned, Cunard had a narrow escape and P&O have a ship which is neither one thing nor the other and to travelled P&O passengers she suffers poorly in comparison even to Oceania!!! The dining set up is a huge problem with 75% regularly wanting 2nd sitting and no flexibility to cope. Decor is bland to the point of boring and even though the layout is identical in most respects to HAL's Vistas, she doesn't have their excitement and drama. The Orchid Restaurant and Bar are one of the few good points and would/will make a superb Cunard Grill Class addition. She is the plain Jane of the Vista Class and I wouldn't be surprised if she leaves P&O before too many more years - Vistadam anyone!!!

[JimandStan]

Host Doug-

 

"There is no official replacement for QE2, nor any official retirement date. She will remain in service at least through 2010 and a life extension program for an additional 10 to 15 years is currently being studied."

That is EXACTLY what Cunard was saying about QE1 in 1967! In fact, the term "life extension refit" was coined for the $5 million dollar lido adding refit QE1 was given in

'66 (which was supposed to keep her in service until "at least" 1975).

If there is one thing we have all learned through these boards, well, lets just say that the voracity of cruise lines press announcements is NOT one of them.

John Brown built QE2 to have an economic life of forty years, she may make it to 2009, if we are lucky.

I understand that her "aluminum to steel" joints are failing very badly.

I only hope that she gets a more dignified end than Norway.

[bepsf]

As far as Arcadia (QVI) is concerned, Cunard had a narrow escape and P&O have a ship which is neither one thing nor the other and to travelled P&O passengers she suffers poorly in comparison even to Oceania!!! The dining set up is a huge problem with 75% regularly wanting 2nd sitting and no flexibility to cope. Decor is bland to the point of boring and even though the layout is identical in most respects to HAL's Vistas, she doesn't have their excitement and drama. The Orchid Restaurant and Bar are one of the few good points and would/will make a superb Cunard Grill Class addition. She is the plain Jane of the Vista Class and I wouldn't be surprised if she leaves P&O before too many more years - Vistadam anyone!!!

 

Oh, Yes - 'Bland' is the word for that ship...

 

Unfortunately, she's been built so as to be completely unsuitable for HAL - she doesn't have Penthouse Suites and her existing "suites" are the size of HAL's SS Staterooms - so it would take lots more than a paintjob, a new funnel and some bright fabrics to make her a proper member of the HAL fleet.

 

But I am looking forward to the roof-top Grill Rooms on the Signatures

 

(Hmmm - is it too late to add them to the Vista's?)

[dougnewmanatsea]

For many of us the myth of QE2 is not sufficient to blind us to the inadequacies of this ship, especially in the 21st century

Look, I'm not going to try to convince you to like her, and you're not going to convince me to not like her, so what's the point of this discussion ;) ?

 

But honestly, while I've heard your greivances against QE2 before, I personally don't find her inadequate in any way. Most of her "inadequacies" would be common to virtually any ship her age so for people who like old ships she is really not inadequate.

On the other hand, I know you don't like her, and that's fine - the world would be awfully dull if we all had the same tastes! Each to his own.

 

once QE2 is gone perhaps there will be something with real charm and less myth to take her place

Charm is something that takes time to develop. If you wait for whatever replaces QE2 to get old enough to attain charm, that could be a long wait ;) ...

 

As for myth vs. reality, well QUEEN VICTORIA is really all myth - I mean, she is just an ordinary cruise ship that has been tarted up and is being promoted by Cunard as a "liner". At least QE2 is the genuine article!

 

I think it's slightly demeaning for a ship of such longevity to be kept past her sell by date 'as long as people are prepared to sail on her'!

What is demeaning about being popular?

 

Perhaps Carnival are intending to send her to Australia with all the other second hand tonnage gone that way

I am sure you would consider that sweet revenge against her but I do not see it happening ;) !

 

At whatever point QE2 ceases to be able to make money for Cunard, she will cease to be able to make money for anyone. There is no doubt that people pay more to sail in her because she's QE2. So if she were to start losing money as QE2, I daresay she'd lose even more as something else!

 

I think you would find the original Queen Mary probably being far more 'loved' in her day than the QE2 is today.

Well, I couldn't say, I wasn't there ;) !

 

But there is no doubt that QE2 has a huge and extremely loyal following. In QUEEN MARY's day there were lots of liners for the collective love of the public to be spread over. Today there are only two, and it will be a long time before QM2 is loved the way QE2 is.

 

if the attention to detail is as good as on QM2, will present an excellent 'cruise liner' (whatever that phrase may mean)!

I wish they would just quit all this "liner" nonsense and call her a cruise ship.

 

She is no more or less a liner than any of the other Vista-class ships.

 

It is possible that she may turn out to be an excellent cruise ship, though I do not agree with you that the attention to detail on QM2 is so great. As wonderful a ship as she is, there are a lot of things about her that were simply not as well-thought-out as they ought to have been.

 

As far as Arcadia (QVI) is concerned, Cunard had a narrow escape

I agree, this ship would have been an absolute disaster for Cunard. I do not like Cunard calling the new QUEEN VICTORIA a "liner" or putting her up as some sort of equal to the other QUEENs, but to have had them passing off the first one as a Cunarder let alone a liner or a QUEEN would have been positively insulting.

 

Fortunately they realised their error... Though if she makes a better P&O ship than she did a Cunarder, that only goes to show how watered-down the P&O identity has become in the past few years. They seem to me to be trying to be all things to all people, which is never really a good idea.

 

But honestly, what line would ARCADIA fit in at? She is truly a generic ship that seems to not bear the signature of anyone in particular!

 

I guess if they replaced all the art and soft furnishings, she could pass of as an HAL ship as that is what she really is underneath the veneer of "something else" (whatever that is), but even so, there would have to be a lot of cosmetic changes to make her blend in...

 

to travelled P&O passengers she suffers poorly in comparison even to Oceania!!!

I must admit that I don't follow P&O that well but I must admit that is rather astonishing considering the very cold reception ADONIA and OCEANA got from the P&O regulars.

 

Actually I think ARCADIA is probably a nicer ship than those two, but she is even less P&O-ish if that is at all possible.

 

That is EXACTLY what Cunard was saying about QE1 in 1967!

This is true, but I really don't think the two situations are at all comparable, even though they may look that way on the surface.

 

Let's not forget that in 1967, the company was in terrible shape. The old QUEENs were sailing empty, they were losing massive amounts of money, and whether even the upcoming QE2 could manage to eke out a living was highly questionable, let alone a monstrous dinosaur like QUEEN ELIZABETH. Cunard were virtually oblivious to this, living under the delusion that flying was a passing fad and that somehow they could manage to survive without radical changes in a time when they were drowning in a sea of red ink. Frankly, the fact that the whole idea was ridiculous had to be abundantly clear to anyone who hadn't just awakened from a 10-year coma.

 

The situation today is rather different. The company is successful and profitable, QE2 is sailing full at higher fares than virtually any other large ship, they have new and bigger ships coming on the horizon whose commercial futures seem assured, and there is more capacity in the cruise industry than ever before and yet demand is ever-climbing. She is owned by a thoroughly practical company who very rarely make bad decisions and who would have dumped her long ago if she weren't making money.

 

Aside from the fact that they're both old ships, both flying the same houseflag (though from different owners) and have similar names, there's very little the two situations have in common.

 

John Brown built QE2 to have an economic life of forty years, she may make it to 2009, if we are lucky.

Well, running through 2010 as Cunard say she will would only require her to stretch one year beyond her original design life... And, I might add, having had a lot of improvements (like new machinery) that her designers did not envisage.

 

I might add that in recent years, with the industry the way it is, ships' design lives are being surpassed on a very regular basis. Look, for example, at all those early '70s cruise ships that were only designed to last 20 years or so, that are still going strong at 35 and that will probably sail well past 40. This is very relevant as one of them, Fred. Olsen's BOUDICCA, is as we speak on trials testing her new machinery. Yes, the normally frugal Olsens thought it worth investing a very large sum in a 34-year-old ship that was designed to last 25 years at the most - why shouldn't the same happen to QE2?

 

I must admit that I personally am skeptical at the idea of QE2 sailing past 2010. Even though she's in excellent condition, there can be little doubt that if she is to last more than five or so more years, she will need major investment. (Yes, I know 2010 is only four years away, but I assume they wouldn't bother to upgrade her to meet the SOLAS regulations that come into effect in that year if they intended to retire her a year or two later.) But unless something major happens, I just don't buy the speculation that 2007 or 2008 will be her last year, and I don't think it's that totally far-fetched that Carnival might actually decide to spend a good deal of money on her and keep her running even longer. If she makes enough money for them, it would only make sense to.

 

I only hope that she gets a more dignified end than Norway.

Well, as for NORWAY... It ain't over 'till it's over ;) ! With the threat of prosecution in Germany looming above Star Cruises if they decide to scrap her, the incentive to find something better to do with her is quite large.

 

Personally I still think she will wind up being scrapped in the end, but one never knows... Stranger things have happened...

 

Oh, Yes - 'Bland' is the word for that ship...

I still don't think she's nearly as bland as some of the Princess ships... But at least those are visibly identifiable as Princess ships!

 

ARCADIA doesn't carry the "signature" of any brand. She doesn't look like an HAL ship, or a Cunard ship, or a P&O ship, or anything else, which makes her seem even blander than she is.

 

I think of her, in decorative terms, as a castrated HAL ship. (Some immature types burst out laughing when I say this, but I'm serious... HAL ships always seem to have rather "masculine" looking interiors to me; ARCADIA is much lighter and more "feminine"!)

 

Incidentally I am told that Mr. Dingemanns was not too pleased with what her new designers (DesignTeam and Tillberg/SMC) did to his interiors. I don't blame him...

 

Unfortunately, she's been built so as to be completely unsuitable for HAL - she doesn't have Penthouse Suites and her existing "suites" are the size of HAL's SS Staterooms

This is not a very big deal. Removing some smaller cabins and replacing them with bigger ones is not so difficult, especially in this day and age of modular cabins.

 

Frankly I would be surprised if the new soft furnishings, artworks, furniture etc. for the public areas (to restore them to more or less what HAL would have had them look like) would not cost a lot more than some cabin modifications!

 

(Hmmm - is it too late to add them to the Vista's?)

No, not at all. Apparently all the Vistas are to get NOORDAM's stern configuration and I would not be surprised if eventually they don't get the alternative restaurants added as well.

[JimandStan]

Doug-

 

It's interesting to see what forty years of PR can accomplish. When QE2 was introduced, her "mod" interiors and non traditional styling were very unpopular with the old guard.

Who can forget the presumptuous "Ships have been boring long enough" ?

QE2 is a nice enough old girl, but she never had the charm of either of the old Queens, the new Mauretania, or even Caronia, but, as Doug points out, she is all that we have.

"Old ship loyalists" have kept her running in the black, so far, but one must remember that every capital expense is watched with an eagle eye by the Carnival cost accountants.

I must say that you are right about one thing. The Cunard of 2006 IS a very different company than the Cunard of 1967. Financially, they are in better shape, however, the new company has nowhere NEAR the facility of the old to keep an aging liner "up and running".

In '67, for example, Cunard still had warehouses full of replacement parts for their ships. They had the advantage of being able to store spare parts that didn't fit onboard in either New York or Southampton. Where do you store parts for an ageing QE2?

Honestly, Doug, I can't see QE2 lasting more than 6 or 8 months after the QV inaugurals.

Oh there will be much corporate nashing of teeth and highly publicised regret.......not to mention the few dozen ULTRA HIGH END "Farewell Voyages", but she will go.

Let me say, here and now, that if she can avoid the ignimony of Australia, she may wind up with a Queen Mary 1 type of end

On a different subject: "a monstrous dinosaur like QUEEN ELIZABETH." Cruel, very cruel, and certainly no way to treat a lady. A lady, by the way who contributed handsomely to the companies treasury for decades, and was the flagship of the greatest liner fleet ever assembled.

I wonder what Commodore Warwick would think?

[dougnewmanatsea]

When QE2 was introduced, her "mod" interiors and non traditional styling were very unpopular with the old guard.

Of course! But the old guard never likes anything new do they? After all, QUEEN MARY wasn't popular with the old guard when she was new either!

 

Of course much of today's "old guard" is comprised of the children of the old guard of that era! As a friend of mine who is now himself a member of the old guard confided, "at the time, to me, the old QUEENs were boring!"

 

Others made peace with QE2 once they realized that the old QUEENs were dead and gone and it was QE2 or nothing. I am sure the same will happen with QM2 - when QE2 is gone and it is QM2 or nothing (as far as liners go), I doubt many people will choose "nothing"!

 

Now personally I like QM2 a lot but then I am not exactly a member of the "old guard" myself ;) .

 

Where do you store parts for an ageing QE2?

How many parts of her are actually that old, anyway ;) ? I mean, aside from the hull itself...

 

After all, her mechanicals were all replaced in 1986-87 and her diesels are not at all difficult to get spare parts for; there are probably hundreds of ships with those same diesels and they're still in production.

 

she may wind up with a Queen Mary 1 type of end

I agree... Especially if the environmentalists put up a NORWAY-style fight!

 

Cruel, very cruel, and certainly no way to treat a lady.

I was speaking purely from an economic standpoint!

 

QE2 is a dinosaur too, but I wouldn't call her "monstrous" as she seems ever so small compared to the new giants ;) !

 

But back to QUEEN ELIZABETH... She was a great ship, but from an economic point of view she was a monstrous dinosaur by the mid-1960s. Frankly, I still wonder how Cunard could have really thought that they could sail her into the '70s. By the mid-1960s she was sailing empty much of the time, her operating costs were enormous, she was completely unsuitable for the off-season cruising so vitial to a liner's existance by then... That Cunard actually thought they could keep her is a real indication to me of how out of touch with reality they were.

[ANSalberg]

Sorry to butt in here- but I DO have something to add; We did a crossing on the Queen Mary -although we are pretty much loyal HAL cruisers -because we wanted a week in London. WE had a "Junior Suite" and consequently had meals in the smaller dining room-Which was GREAT! We LOVED some of the decorations as they remided us of London [ we live in Colorado] That said- we cruise HAL most of the time -just returned from 2 months on the "Amsterdam" in the Pacific and have 2 more cruises scheduled for 2006 -each almost a month/on first the "Amsterdam" in May and the new "Noordam" in September.....I guess my point is that I have never MET a ship I didn't like! I can't say -in 22 cruises - I have EVER had a "bad" cruise. However we do our homework and go to our TA prepared with our needs/wants. From the old "Caronia" [ Cunard] to the QM2 -to ANY of the HAL ships [ including the old "Nieuw Amsterdam"/"Noordam" plus most of the newer ships] WE have LOVED them all. What [seems] to separate HAL from "All the others" is their WONDERFUL crew from SE Asia.......Ships will come and go....but I do believe CRUISING for everyone is here to stay!

Anne

[LunchCompanion]

I stayed on the hotel Queen Mary for four nights a year before being on the QM2 for an eight day carib cruise, Queens Grill class. I was disappointed in the new queen mary because the deck layout on the hotel seemed much more spacious and the dining areas in the hotel had better menus and were more spacious. Just seems that there are too many narrow passageways on the new queen mary. I had a suite on the new Queen and it wasnt as spacious as I had expected. Reminded me of my suite on The Carnival Ecstacy.

As far as the Victoria goes, plans look like the Noordam plans without the outside elevators. And, by the way, the Noordam plans look very similar to me to the Celebrity Constellation.

If the Queen Victoria ever sails out of New York Harbor, I will probably be looking to take a cruise on her.

My opinions may change after my ten days on The Noordam in March and my twenty four days on the QM2 in June.

So far, my best cruise has been a thirteen day on the Constellation. That was mainly because the public spaces were very well maintained and my contacts with the crew and staff were all very pleasant. One door was off its hinge for the whole eight days on the QM2 and I had three unpleasant contacts with the staff on the QM2. But still I am willing to give her another try. The itinerary in June looks good to me and it fits in with my schedule.

The Arcadia looks interesting to me because I may want to take a cruise on a ship out of Barbadoes. Also, I understand that the Arcadia is an adults only ship. I am looking forward to the Noordam cruise in March with some trepidation that there may be a lot of spring breakers.

The comments in this thread have been all over the place and I have continued in that spirit with my verbiosity:eek: