Viking First To Drop Pre-Cruise Testing

[ChiefMateJRK]

28 minutes ago, Sinbadssailors said:

This news that someone, anyone, anywhere is dropping this nonsensical requirement?

 

Absolutely relevant

Absolutely correct!!!

[KeithJenner]

On 6/14/2022 at 7:20 PM, Oxo said:

Testing provides a false sense of security. 

Examples:

If you have not been vaccinated you may test 3 days before cruise.

If you have been vaccinated 2 days before cruise.

Why 3 vs 2?

We just got off a cruise where we had to test before the cruise 3 or 2 days.

However. Many people tested Positive after their 7 day cruise.

You travel the day before or day of the cruise. Can you become Positive from someone you traveled with or near?

We are sailing from Amsterdam on a Thursday later in the year. If the testing rules are unchanged then we will very likely test locally on Monday.

 

Before we get on the ship we will take a train to London (two trains and an underground), spend some time in London and stay in a hotel. The next day we will take another train to the airport, fly to Amsterdam, a further train to the city, do some sightseeing and spend another night in a hotel. Both evenings will involve visiting a pub or two.

 

What use is our test in these circumstances?

[Oxo]

37 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

We are sailing from Amsterdam on a Thursday later in the year. If the testing rules are unchanged then we will very likely test locally on Monday.

 

Before we get on the ship we will take a train to London (two trains and an underground), spend some time in London and stay in a hotel. The next day we will take another train to the airport, fly to Amsterdam, a further train to the city, do some sightseeing and spend another night in a hotel. Both evenings will involve visiting a pub or two.

 

What use is our test in these circumstances?

Totally agree!

Stay Safe and Happy Cruising! 

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, KeithJenner said:

What use is our test in these circumstances?

It allows you to get on the ship.  Beyond that?  I haven't a clue.... 🤣

[HuliHuli]

On 6/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Oxo said:

Testing provides a false sense of security.

Testing also provides an indication of whether you are actively carrying the COVID-19 virus, i.e., contagious, and thus can elect not to travel or present yourself for embarkation recognizing that you could infect others.  It’s not foolproof, but little in life is.

On 6/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Oxo said:

If you have not been vaccinated you may test 3 days before cruise.

On 6/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Oxo said:

If you have been vaccinated 2 days before cruise.

I’m not sure where those opinions come from.  First, According to NCL “All guests age twelve and over, as well as all crew, must be fully vaccinated at least 2 weeks prior to departure in order to board. [We] welcome unvaccinated children under the age of 12 onboard,” because statistically they are less likely to have the virus.  NCL’s Sail-Safe policy is “All guests above the age of 2 will be required to provide proof of a negative COVID-19 antigen or NAAT test (I.e. PCR) result administered by a verified third party or via medically supervised home test:

·        Within 2 days prior to embarkation date for cruises departing from a U.S. port

·        Within 3 days prior to embarkation date for cruises departing from a non-U.S. port

On 6/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Oxo said:

Why 3 vs 2?

Because the CDC and European Health authorities have different requirements to which NCL must adhere.  Also, unlike the PCR test, the antigen test can only determine if you have an active virus in your body, but is also less reliable.  Different testing methods = different results.

On 6/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Oxo said:

We just got off a cruise where we had to test before the cruise 3 or 2 days.

However. Many people tested Positive after their 7 day cruise.

Yes, because that is NCL’s protocol and reflects different Governmental edicts.

And that is logical as some passengers may have been infected, but asymptomatic and had only been exposed a day or two before boarding.  See nothing is foolproof comment above.

On 6/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Oxo said:

You travel the day before or day of the cruise. Can you become Positive from someone you traveled with or near?

Yes, see above.  Ship happens!

Edited June 15, 2022 by HuliHuli
Typo

[Oxo]

3 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

We are sailing from Amsterdam on a Thursday later in the year. If the testing rules are unchanged then we will very likely test locally on Monday.

 

Before we get on the ship we will take a train to London (two trains and an underground), spend some time in London and stay in a hotel. The next day we will take another train to the airport, fly to Amsterdam, a further train to the city, do some sightseeing and spend another night in a hotel. Both evenings will involve visiting a pub or two.

 

What use is our test in these circumstances?

HuliHuli

Thanks for your info.  Read the posting above. What's your take on that? Your opinion. Other opinions. There is no correct answer.  Time will tell. 

Stay Safe and Happy Cruising! 

[Oxo]

Relative info for any cruiser/cruise line. Rapid Covid Test Results

 

If you object to contents since it is not NCL specific, do not read.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/rapid-covid-tests-false-negatives-rcna33502

 

Stay Safe and Happy Cruising! 

[jkbec101]

Setting aside any governmental regulations, which obviously control, we should take a look at this from the cruise ship view.  

 

I make the following statement admitting I do not know actual numbers so I am working on hypothetical ones.  

 

NCL or any cruise line for that matter has a lot to balance.  Right now, ships are cruising at roughly 60% capacity, so for the sake of argument, lets call it 4,000 guests.  With pre-cruise testing, even if you only lose 2% to a positive covid test in the 2-3 days prior to departure, you are talking 80 people.  That can equate to as many as 40 cabins.  That's 40 cabins that up to 48 hours prior to the cruise had paying guests in them, spending money on excursions, shopping, specialty dining, gambling in the casino, all revenue that NCL is losing, not to mention money they'd be required to refund (i.e., excursions).  Plus, you have crew that are not servicing these cabins, who lose out on tips (pre-paid or otherwise), not to mention NCL is still paying them (I know they don't get paid squat) the same but for less work.  

 

On the flipside, if NCL were to drop pre-cruise covid testing, how many people would straight up cancel their cruise because they now felt unsafe?  I don't know if this is a number that can accurately be tracked or not, if it can and the the number of people who cancel due to a lack of testing exceeds the number of people denied boarding due to a positive, then pre-cruise testing is not going away.  If the number is equal to or less than the former, and NCL and other large cruise lines can avoid any negative PR, then the testing goes away.

 

It really all comes down to a numbers game.  

[BermudaBound2014]

9 minutes ago, jkbec101 said:

Setting aside any governmental regulations, which obviously control, we should take a look at this from the cruise ship view.  

 

I make the following statement admitting I do not know actual numbers so I am working on hypothetical ones.  

 

NCL or any cruise line for that matter has a lot to balance.  Right now, ships are cruising at roughly 60% capacity, so for the sake of argument, lets call it 4,000 guests.  With pre-cruise testing, even if you only lose 2% to a positive covid test in the 2-3 days prior to departure, you are talking 80 people.  That can equate to as many as 40 cabins.  That's 40 cabins that up to 48 hours prior to the cruise had paying guests in them, spending money on excursions, shopping, specialty dining, gambling in the casino, all revenue that NCL is losing, not to mention money they'd be required to refund (i.e., excursions).  Plus, you have crew that are not servicing these cabins, who lose out on tips (pre-paid or otherwise), not to mention NCL is still paying them (I know they don't get paid squat) the same but for less work.  

 

On the flipside, if NCL were to drop pre-cruise covid testing, how many people would straight up cancel their cruise because they now felt unsafe?  I don't know if this is a number that can accurately be tracked or not, if it can and the the number of people who cancel due to a lack of testing exceeds the number of people denied boarding due to a positive, then pre-cruise testing is not going away.  If the number is equal to or less than the former, and NCL and other large cruise lines can avoid any negative PR, then the testing goes away.

 

It really all comes down to a numbers game.  

 

I think you are missing a big piece of the puzzle.

 

I agree, the number of guests who testing eliminates is negligible.

I also suspect that NCL would lose some paying customers due to feeling 'unsafe'.

 

But I surmise that NCL will gain significantly more customers than they would lose when they eliminate pre testing. The rational is obvious. 

[ChiefMateJRK]

19 minutes ago, jkbec101 said:

On the flipside, if NCL were to drop pre-cruise covid testing, how many people would straight up cancel their cruise because they now felt unsafe?  I don't know if this is a number that can accurately be tracked or not, if it can and the the number of people who cancel due to a lack of testing exceeds the number of people denied boarding due to a positive, then pre-cruise testing is not going away.  If the number is equal to or less than the former, and NCL and other large cruise lines can avoid any negative PR, then the testing goes away.

 

It really all comes down to a numbers game.  

You've left out one factor.  If NCL were to drop pre-cruise testing, how many more people would book the cruise because they don't have to worry about having to cancel two days before due to a positive Covid test.

 

ETA: oops, it looks like @BermudaBound2014beat me to the punch.😎

Edited June 16, 2022 by ChiefMateJRK

[Karaboudjan]

I really question the impact of testing alone.  Humans are very adaptable.  I don't think there is anything about pre-testing that most people cannot and will not easily take in stride, so I don't believe that is the major hold up for most people.  As has been pointed out there is the fear of being quarantined which I would agree is far more impactful than taking a test or even the inconvenience of a failed test, and of course there is also the basic concern about catching COVID.  I believe those are the big ones, but I just can't see very many people who are willing to take the risk of being quarantined and/or catch COVID but unwilling to take a test.

[ChiefMateJRK]

7 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 I don't think there is anything about pre-testing that most people cannot and will not easily take in stride, so I don't believe that is the major hold up for most people.  

I think you missed the  point.  

9 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

As has been pointed out there is the fear of being quarantined which I would agree is far more impactful than taking a test or even the inconvenience of a failed test, and of course there is also the basic concern about catching COVID.  I believe those are the big ones

Why would anybody fear being quarantined when they can take the test before leaving home?  I have no fear of being quarantined.  I have no fear of catching Covid.  I do have a "fear" of making all the preparations for a nice vacation and having the rug pulled out from under me two days prior to sailing because I am required to take a test and it shows positive.  I just want to cruise.  If I catch Covid on the airplane or in the hotel, I likely will not even know it.  If that causes others to fear being exposed to me, they should just stay home.  It's a world full of Covid these days, and some think it's time to just live with it and make the best.

[Karaboudjan]

1 minute ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

I think you missed the  point.  

 

Why would anybody fear being quarantined when they can take the test before leaving home?  I have no fear of being quarantined.  I have no fear of catching Covid.  I do have a "fear" of making all the preparations for a nice vacation and having the rug pulled out from under me two days prior to sailing because I am required to take a test and it shows positive.  I just want to cruise.  If I catch Covid on the airplane or in the hotel, I likely will not even know it.  If that causes others to fear being exposed to me, they should just stay home.  It's a world full of Covid these days, and some think it's time to just live with it and make the best.

 

What point do you think I missed?  It has been stated here that pre-cruise testing is a big detractor to people choosing to cruise.  I happen to disagree.  

 

It has also been stated by people on these boards that they are avoiding cruising while they risk being quarantined.  You may not feel that way but that does not negate their position.

[BermudaBound2014]

6 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

I really question the impact of testing alone.  Humans are very adaptable.  I don't think there is anything about pre-testing that most people cannot and will not easily take in stride, so I don't believe that is the major hold up for most people.  As has been pointed out there is the fear of being quarantined which I would agree is far more impactful than taking a test or even the inconvenience of a failed test, and of course there is also the basic concern about catching COVID.  I believe those are the big ones, but I just can't see very many people who are willing to take the risk of being quarantined and/or catch COVID but unwilling to take a test.

 

I absolutely agree that the risk of quarantining likely has a much greater impact on bookings than testing. 

 

I also acknowledge that because a significant portion of the cruising demographics likely has one or more comorbidities, the fear of COVID plays a role. Those with comorbidities should think twice before boarding a cruise ship since they are the most likely demographics to be hospitalized with Covid. 

 

However; as time goes on, the outright fear of Covid is approaching negligible in the general population.  Sure, some people will remain afraid of the virus forever, but I surmise that most (without comorbidity) have moved on from fear and are ready to live with the risk. 

 

However; I disagree that the fear of a failed test is not a significant factor in keeping Americans away from sailing NCL.  NCL is sailing mostly in Alaska/Caribbean.  It is estimated that the average age of a American cruiser on NCL is 43. In this age range, many would also have children (NCL is heavily marketed toward families with young children). This age bracket has very precious vacation time and is more likely flying to a port. The 'risk' of testing positive is greater than someone retired who is driving. Why choose cruising with the risk of being turned away at the port when a family can choose another vacation mode with zero risk? This age bracket (including their children) is likely asymptomatic and the odds of serious illness are extremely low. 

 

I still believe vaccination is likely the largest obstacle to cruising but I recognize I am in the minority on the forum. It is my belief that all Covid protocols need to be removed before cruising resumes occupancy levels mirroring pre-pandemic. I'm also doubling down on the belief that a niche market exists and suggest cruise lines dip their toes in this experiment, but no one listens to little ol' me 😉

 

Of course, I also acknowledge covid protocols may never be removed from cruising because, what we have learned, is that covid protocols don't always follow logic. 

 

 

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

24 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Why would anybody fear being quarantined when they can take the test before leaving home?  I have no fear of being quarantined.  I have no fear of catching Covid.  I do have a "fear" of making all the preparations for a nice vacation and having the rug pulled out from under me two days prior to sailing because I am required to take a test and it shows positive.  I just want to cruise.  If I catch Covid on the airplane or in the hotel, I likely will not even know it.  If that causes others to fear being exposed to me, they should just stay home.  It's a world full of Covid these days, and some think it's time to just live with it and make the best.

 

I agree with almost everything here. I said 'almost' because I am one who is not choosing to cruise for the risk of being quarantined. I think I have good odds of not testing positive pre-cruise, but a cruise ship does appear to have very high transmission rates (if only because they do not have plausible deniability). If cruise lines can say that they absolutely are no longer contact tracing I would be more likely to jump back in, but the thought of spending any length of time locked up in quarantine because I sat next to the wrong person at the comedy club makes my palms sweat.

 

My vacation choices are much more diverse than cruising. Don't get me wrong, I love cruising, but I love other forms of travel too. Until I can be guaranteed I won't be quarantined I'll continue to travel like I have the last two years. Sometimes I miss cruising, but in the grand scheme of things, I haven't missed anything in terms of travel except some fantastic last minute cruise prices :). 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[ChiefMateJRK]

28 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

What point do you think I missed?  It has been stated here that pre-cruise testing is a big detractor to people choosing to cruise.  I happen to disagree.  

You said this:

 

50 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

As has been pointed out there is the fear of being quarantined which I would agree is far more impactful than taking a test or even the inconvenience of a failed test

I simply don't agree that the "fear of quarantine" is a bigger detractor than the "inconvenience of a failed test."  If I don't have to take the test, than I don't need to worry about the HUGE inconvenience of cancelling vacation plans at the last minute (along with various types of costs - some dollar, some otherwise).

[ChiefMateJRK]

22 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Of course, I also acknowledge covid protocols may never be removed from cruising because, what we have learned, is that covid protocols don't always follow logic.

Hear Hear!

19 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I agree with almost everything here. I said 'almost' because I am one who is not choosing to cruise for the risk of being quarantined.

I read the other poster's comments to be in the context of pre-cruise testing.  Sure, if we shift gears to "during the cruise" testing, than I can understand concerns about being quarantined.  Have we heard any recent reports of people being asked to test on board because of contract tracing?  I thought that was long gone.

[BermudaBound2014]

1 minute ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Hear Hear!

I read the other poster's comments to be in the context of pre-cruise testing.  Sure, if we shift gears to "during the cruise" testing, than I can understand concerns about being quarantined.  Have we heard any recent reports of people being asked to test on board because of contract tracing?  I thought that was long gone.

 

I have not heard of this recently, but I haven't heard they aren't doing it yet either. I do 'think' the days of quarantining based on contract tracing are over, but I'm still not ready to take that risk.

 

 I was never really bothered by an inside/oceanview room until I started following the Diamond princess blogs at the start of all this. I know I would survive, but my current cruise interests are very lengthy cruises which carries a higher risk.

 

I'm also cautioned by the financial future of cruising especially considering lengthy cruises carry much more risk. Lots of folks who put deposits on the bankrupt Crystal cruises are not protected by their credit card. I've read of people leaving 5 figures on the table there :(. 

 

Back on topic (kind-of)... Celebrity cruises just announced they are removing vaccination requirements for anyone under 17 sailing in the med. All these baby steps add up :). 

 

[Karaboudjan]

48 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

However; I disagree that the fear of a failed test is not a significant factor in keeping Americans away from sailing NCL.  NCL is sailing mostly in Alaska/Caribbean.  It is estimated that the average age of a American cruiser on NCL is 43. In this age range, many would also have children (NCL is heavily marketed toward families with young children). This age bracket has very precious vacation time and is more likely flying to a port. The 'risk' of testing positive is greater than someone retired who is driving. Why choose cruising with the risk of being turned away at the port when a family can choose another vacation mode with zero risk? This age bracket (including their children) is likely asymptomatic and the odds of serious illness are extremely low. 

 

I still believe vaccination is likely the largest obstacle to cruising but I recognize I am in the minority on the forum. It is my belief that all Covid protocols need to be removed before cruising resumes occupancy levels mirroring pre-pandemic. I'm also doubling down on the belief that a niche market exists and suggest cruise lines dip their toes in this experiment, but no one listens to little ol' me 😉

 

 

I guess it comes down to your outlook on human nature.  People on the CC boards are likely planners who think through the consequences of their choices, but I have seen enough examples to question if that is representative of the general public.

 

As for the niche, I agree, but I think the big problem might be offering enough variety given that your market would be so diverse.  You could probably find people in every segment of the cruise market who are avoiding booking because of COVID, but could you create a niche line that would appeal to enough of them?  

 

Basically, though, I think the people who have the ships are just hoping this all blows over before they need to try anything new, and anyone on the outside fears that it will blow over before they can take advantage of the niche.

[BermudaBound2014]

I agree, it's a really strange proposal and definitely 'out of the box' thinking, but I've been accused of that silliness all my life. Of course, the experiment could fail miserably :). 

[LGW59]

40 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

I guess it comes down to your outlook on human nature.  People on the CC boards are likely planners who think through the consequences of their choices, but I have seen enough examples to question if that is representative of the general public.

 

As for the niche, I agree, but I think the big problem might be offering enough variety given that your market would be so diverse.  You could probably find people in every segment of the cruise market who are avoiding booking because of COVID, but could you create a niche line that would appeal to enough of them?  

 

Basically, though, I think the people who have the ships are just hoping this all blows over before they need to try anything new, and anyone on the outside fears that it will blow over before they can take advantage of the niche.

People on the CC boards are likely planners who think through the consequences of their choices, Well not really, because many of those planners who "think through the consequences of their choices" then return here and blab on and on about no premium drinks available, or at least the one that matters, which is the one THEY drink, reservations not being available, elevators to crowded, masks on masks off, moving to the dungeon i.e. a quarantine cabin, ya know kind of ad infinitum...

[jkbec101]

5 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I think you are missing a big piece of the puzzle.

 

I agree, the number of guests who testing eliminates is negligible.

I also suspect that NCL would lose some paying customers due to feeling 'unsafe'.

 

But I surmise that NCL will gain significantly more customers than they would lose when they eliminate pre testing. The rational is obvious. 

I did leave out a piece, not intentionally, it just never crossed my mind.  

 

It doesn't change the foundation of my point, which is that pre-cruise testing or not, all comes down to which action will make them the most amount of money with the least amount of negative PR.

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, jkbec101 said:

I did leave out a piece, not intentionally, it just never crossed my mind.  

 

It doesn't change the foundation of my point, which is that pre-cruise testing or not, all comes down to which action will make them the most amount of money with the least amount of negative PR.

 

Now that we can both agree on 100% 🙂