Currently on Ventura-Masks Again!

[terrierjohn]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

That may be case but all the information on their websites is certainly aimed to make people believe it is!   If it is as safe as that stuff indicates then we wouldn't have all these people upset because they were locked away or feeling misinformed.  P&O certainly can't be blamed for the medical conditions but they most certainly can for offering a false sense of it's all okay and we'll look after you.

 

If there's nothing to fear do away with all the stuff about their special measures and let people make their own choice on an open ship.

For the vast majority there is nothing to fear, and anyone who has concerns that covid could cause severe problems for them should not be considering cruising, or any other activity where crowds of people would be present.

However I do agree with you that they are not being fair in the way they are handling the wind down of FCCs. Since they insist on passengers having adequate insurance, they should at least be having a dialogue with insurers so that passengers could readily know they were fully covered in all circumstances.

[GSPG]

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

It's not really for the cruise lines to say whether cruising is safe, even for those who are vulnerable. It is up to the individual to decide whether the potential risks outweigh the benefits of a cruise holiday. Cruise lines have put in place protocols to minimise the risks, but there can be no guarantees. P&O sem to be responding correctly to any significant covid outbreak onboard,  but they are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to applying tighter restrictions, some accept them as necessary, others hate them, so it's a fine line for the cruise lines who are struggling to survive with their reduced earnings and high debts.

 

Since the restart, it seems we are part of an experiment.

Cruise lines appear to have set their own rules with subtle differences between each occurring, and now we can see reactive measures than proactive as each cruise plays out.

 

Many people are desperate to cruise, and the lines know that.

My beef at this stage from the evidence I see is that cruising should be stamped with a triple XXX for the vulnerable.

I don’t think they are making it clear how risky it is for these people.

 

And when on board, as they do know the risks guests are being instructed to mask up. Why, because they know some lives will be endangered because they weren’t filtered out and stopped from boarding in the first instance.

To boot, that then will affect the experience and enjoyment of those considered safe, and would just feel under the weather for a couple of days.

 

It feels like something out of the film Pinocchio and on Pleasure Island.

”You silly boys (sorry vulnerable guests) knew the risks, now pay for it (or at least accept it)”.

But in this case did they really know the risks if a company is reaching out to them without these waivers of safety.

 

 

 

[Selbourne]

Just now, s&gsjollies said:

Were you on the cruise who got a letter telling you about mask wearing? and was it a request or a definite instruction please - I cannot get a definitely answer on this but the above is very helpful thank you

I wasn’t on the last cruise I’m afraid, so cannot answer your question. I know people on the current Ventura cruise (which left yesterday) who were aware of the issues on the preceding one, but 6 hours after boarding were able to confirm that there was no mask wearing requirement whatsoever and furthermore they hadn’t seen a single passenger wearing one. As with all one week cruises, most people who pick up the virus probably won’t be symptomatic until they get home.

[GSPG]

1 hour ago, amfc_lenny said:

tbh, it makes me a little wary, neither of us have underlying health issues. But don’t feel the current situation is handled very well.

 

 In my view, should be a fit to fly test required as a minimum.

have to say throughout our cruise we found the information being shared a bit lacking something which is always a weak point for p and o. 
 

we have a 7 nighter booked for feb, which we are going with dw parents, and I’m worried for them especially as Iona in winter indoors could be very crowded.

 

 

Hopefully things might have improved by Feb for you.

 

As you mention fit to fly, yes this should be taken into account.

When I still see people on board where it’s obvious they have health issues, they just should not be on there at this time.

 

Health & Safety for passengers welfare?

There are still dangerous waters out there for some, and they are being included.

[cruising.mark.uk]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

For the vast majority there is nothing to fear, and anyone who has concerns that covid could cause severe problems for them should not be considering cruising, or any other activity where crowds of people would be present.

However I do agree with you that they are not being fair in the way they are handling the wind down of FCCs. Since they insist on passengers having adequate insurance, they should at least be having a dialogue with insurers so that passengers could readily know they were fully covered in all circumstances.

 

I think this is spot on.  And I don't think P&O are telling the vulnerable that it is safe to cruise.  See this answer to their Top 10 Covid-related questions:

https://www.pocruises.com/frequently-asked-questions.our-covid-19-protocols.I-have-an-underlying-medical-condition-is-it-safe-for-me-to-travel-Will-I-be-denied-boarding.summary

 

Everyone needs to understand the risk to them, and make decisions based on that understanding.  Cruise lines are just following government policy.  I stand ready to be corrected, but I don't think any cruise line operating out of the UK requires pre-boarding testing anymore unless it is a requirement of one of the countries a particular cruise is visiting.  And, I don't think any form of travel or entertainment or work or any other activities in the UK require people to test before participating.  So why should cruising be different?

 

The latest ONS figures suggest that between one in 45 and one in 80 people in the UK have Covid, and the figures are probably higher than that because there is now so little testing.  If that averages at about one in 60, then that proportion of people at every workplace, school, sporting event, social activity, supermarket, restaurant and on every mode of transport has Covid.  The government policy is to live with that and the population seems happy to do that.  What is the alternative - a return to a hard lockdown for ever more?

 

So, as a rough estimate based on those figures, it is likely that about 50 people boarding a ship with 3000 passengers and crew will have Covid.  That is living with Covid and I think individuals need to make informed judgements based on that and on their appetite to risk.  But, the same proportion of people involved in every other activity they conduct as part of their everyday life will also have Covid at any given time.  So, if they are happy to do those other activities, they should be happy to cruise.  And there is little logic in trying to impose additional constraints on cruise lines compared with the rest of the travel business and wider society.

 

Cruise lines have to take additional precautions to limit the spread on board, in the same way as any other travel provider or event organiser.  And, if passengers are infected they have to take appropriate action.  I am pretty sure that international regulations require that to include quarantine for contagious disease sufferers, in the same way as has always been the case for norovirus and the like.  

 

I think the lack of availability of effective insurance cover for some circumstances is a real issue which certainly needs addressing.  But,  I do feel that some posters have unrealistic expectations of cruise providers who are complying fully with government policy and are no different than any other part of the holiday industry and wider society in having removed most of the Covid-related constraints for those who wish to participate.

[Megabear2]

28 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

For the vast majority there is nothing to fear, and anyone who has concerns that covid could cause severe problems for them should not be considering cruising, or any other activity where crowds of people would be present.

However I do agree with you that they are not being fair in the way they are handling the wind down of FCCs. Since they insist on passengers having adequate insurance, they should at least be having a dialogue with insurers so that passengers could readily know they were fully covered in all circumstances.

Whilst there is indeed nothing to fear for the majority (and I include myself in that) unless it's an extremely late booking people booked their cruises believing they were boarding ships with fully vaccinated and tested people - it's been on the website stating that since cruising restarted.  Making a personal decision on your opinion of the risk was relatively easy at that point so you booked.  In my own case we looked at the "protocols" including testing, vaccination and who looked after us and got us home if it went disastrously wrong. All very straightforward and easy and a "risk" worth taking for us. 

 

Come September that all changed.  No testing and vagaries about who looks after us and at what cost, both financially and medically.  Luckily my remaining cruises do require a test before flying so hopefully the deliberate deniers or downright liars won't get through and it will just be bad luck if our cruise is hit.  I can handle that, but I cannot handle a policy actively inviting dishonesty.

 

I've had the misfortune to be unwell on a cruise myself and just got on with it, stayed in bed and recovered - that's life.  I do have full cruise cover with confinement and goodness knows what else but I'm fully aware that unless it's a very simple claim like a missed port a lot of the policy terms are there to trip up the unwary. I've always been sceptical but my experience this year has taught me cruise lines and insurers are most definitely not the passengers' friends.

[Megabear2]

17 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

 

I think this is spot on.  And I don't think P&O are telling the vulnerable that it is safe to cruise.  See this answer to their Top 10 Covid-related questions:

https://www.pocruises.com/frequently-asked-questions.our-covid-19-protocols.I-have-an-underlying-medical-condition-is-it-safe-for-me-to-travel-Will-I-be-denied-boarding.summary

 

Everyone needs to understand the risk to them, and make decisions based on that understanding.  Cruise lines are just following government policy.  I stand ready to be corrected, but I don't think any cruise line operating out of the UK requires pre-boarding testing anymore unless it is a requirement of one of the countries a particular cruise is visiting.  And, I don't think any form of travel or entertainment or work or any other activities in the UK require people to test before participating.  So why should cruising be different?

 

The latest ONS figures suggest that between one in 45 and one in 80 people in the UK have Covid, and the figures are probably higher than that because there is now so little testing.  If that averages at about one in 60, then that proportion of people at every workplace, school, sporting event, social activity, supermarket, restaurant and on every mode of transport has Covid.  The government policy is to live with that and the population seems happy to do that.  What is the alternative - a return to a hard lockdown for ever more?

 

So, as a rough estimate based on those figures, it is likely that about 50 people boarding a ship with 3000 passengers and crew will have Covid.  That is living with Covid and I think individuals need to make informed judgements based on that and on their appetite to risk.  But, the same proportion of people involved in every other activity they conduct as part of their everyday life will also have Covid at any given time.  So, if they are happy to do those other activities, they should be happy to cruise.  And there is little logic in trying to impose additional constraints on cruise lines compared with the rest of the travel business and wider society.

 

Cruise lines have to take additional precautions to limit the spread on board, in the same way as any other travel provider or event organiser.  And, if passengers are infected they have to take appropriate action.  I am pretty sure that international regulations require that to include quarantine for contagious disease sufferers, in the same way as has always been the case for norovirus and the like.  

 

I think the lack of availability of effective insurance cover for some circumstances is a real issue which certainly needs addressing.  But,  I do feel that some posters have unrealistic expectations of cruise providers who are complying fully with government policy and are no different than any other part of the holiday industry and wider society in having removed most of the Covid-related constraints for those who wish to participate.

All very sensible but no other holiday or sporting event, theatre, restaurant etc requires me to complete a medical questionnaire before I travel which could end up costing me thousands of pounds with no actual medical professional making the decision.  

 

When there was testing at the port at least a medical professional was on site to discuss why you had such and such going on.

 

 

[nosapphire]

Purely in response to the opinions about whether those with health conditions should be allowed on board, or whether extra warnings should be given.

Unless we regard those with health conditions as also being mentally incompetent, then at some stage we have to accept that it is up to the individual to assess their own risk, their own level of comfort, ask their own questions, and make their own decision.

Every cruise I have been on, about a week in there has been some form of (usually chest) infection going around - sometimes I have caught it, sometimes I have not. I have always regarded it as a fact that when a large group of people from all over the country are gathered together in one place for several days, something unpleasant will get passed around, and that some people will be worse affected than others.

 

[Son of Anarchy]

9 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

 

I think this is spot on.  And I don't think P&O are telling the vulnerable that it is safe to cruise.  See this answer to their Top 10 Covid-related questions:

https://www.pocruises.com/frequently-asked-questions.our-covid-19-protocols.I-have-an-underlying-medical-condition-is-it-safe-for-me-to-travel-Will-I-be-denied-boarding.summary

 

Everyone needs to understand the risk to them, and make decisions based on that understanding.  Cruise lines are just following government policy.  I stand ready to be corrected, but I don't think any cruise line operating out of the UK requires pre-boarding testing anymore unless it is a requirement of one of the countries a particular cruise is visiting.  And, I don't think any form of travel or entertainment or work or any other activities in the UK require people to test before participating.  So why should cruising be different?

 

The latest ONS figures suggest that between one in 45 and one in 80 people in the UK have Covid, and the figures are probably higher than that because there is now so little testing.  If that averages at about one in 60, then that proportion of people at every workplace, school, sporting event, social activity, supermarket, restaurant and on every mode of transport has Covid.  The government policy is to live with that and the population seems happy to do that.  What is the alternative - a return to a hard lockdown for ever more?

 

So, as a rough estimate based on those figures, it is likely that about 50 people boarding a ship with 3000 passengers and crew will have Covid.  That is living with Covid and I think individuals need to make informed judgements based on that and on their appetite to risk.  But, the same proportion of people involved in every other activity they conduct as part of their everyday life will also have Covid at any given time.  So, if they are happy to do those other activities, they should be happy to cruise.  And there is little logic in trying to impose additional constraints on cruise lines compared with the rest of the travel business and wider society.

 

Cruise lines have to take additional precautions to limit the spread on board, in the same way as any other travel provider or event organiser.  And, if passengers are infected they have to take appropriate action.  I am pretty sure that international regulations require that to include quarantine for contagious disease sufferers, in the same way as has always been the case for norovirus and the like.  

 

I think the lack of availability of effective insurance cover for some circumstances is a real issue which certainly needs addressing.  But,  I do feel that some posters have unrealistic expectations of cruise providers who are complying fully with government policy and are no different than any other part of the holiday industry and wider society in having removed most of the Covid-related constraints for those who wish to participate.

Pretty much sums up our views on this.

[Son of Anarchy]

7 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Purely in response to the opinions about whether those with health conditions should be allowed on board, or whether extra warnings should be given.

Unless we regard those with health conditions as also being mentally incompetent, then at some stage we have to accept that it is up to the individual to assess their own risk, their own level of comfort, ask their own questions, and make their own decision.

Every cruise I have been on, about a week in there has been some form of (usually chest) infection going around - sometimes I have caught it, sometimes I have not. I have always regarded it as a fact that when a large group of people from all over the country are gathered together in one place for several days, something unpleasant will get passed around, and that some people will be worse affected than others.

 

Totally agree

[Mad4WDW]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

I don't think you can criticise P&O alone. No major cruise line  requires testing at present, unless required to do so by certain destinations.  (Happy to be corrected)

I'm criticising P & O in this instance because that's who we travelled with and its the forum Im on 🙂 It doesn't make it ok imho just because other companies are doing the same

[Mad4WDW]

2 hours ago, amfc_lenny said:

Just got off Ventura yesterday, and on the day of departure we both felt grotty and have since tested positive for covid. 
 

with the prevalence on board I do feel p and o should be reducing occupancy. We sailed at 95% full and there were ppl having to isolate in inside cabins which can’t be a fun experience! 
 

I never heard an exact figure but the rumours I heard were that the no of cases were well into several hundred

Agreed. You only had to listen in any area of the ship to the amount of people coughing to figure out the percentage infected was very very high. Hope you get better soon

[Mad4WDW]

2 hours ago, GSPG said:

And doesn’t that give you the impression “come back on board, it’s safe now”?

 

If it’s not (more for the vulnerables even after being jabbed), I feel it’s some form of negligence.
 

There’s a lot on board about safety etc, but in this instance seems that safety is being compromised by money.

 

It’s hypocritical and double standards.

 

Their main message, what they wouldn’t put out is it’s not safe for vulnerable people to cruise at this time, and omit from cruising.

Sorry if this seems hard nosed, but it isn’t safe for some.

 

 

Yep all fair comments I think

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Whilst there is indeed nothing to fear for the majomajorityrity (and I include myself in that) unless it's an extremely late booking people booked their cruises believing they were boarding ships with fully vaccinated and tested people - it's been on the website stating that since cruising restarted.  Making a personal decision on your opinion of the risk was relatively easy at that point so you booked.  

By now everyone should be aware that covid protocols are an evolving feature which are routinely being updated, so simply claiming they were different when they booked is no justification for claiming unfair practises. As far as risk is concerned I think cruising.marks post explained that far more eloquently than anyone so far.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, GSPG said:

When I still see people on board where it’s obvious they have health issues, they just should not be on there at this time.

So what should they have done ? Stayed at home and lost all the money they paid for their holiday ?

[GSPG]

31 minutes ago, wowzz said:

So what should they have done ? Stayed at home and lost all the money they paid for their holiday ?

More importantly than money, I was thinking of saving themselves from a strong risk of getting seriously ill.

[mercury7289]

50 minutes ago, wowzz said:

So what should they have done ? Stayed at home and lost all the money they paid for their holiday ?

The money had already been spent, so that don't lose that again, what they lose is the different experiences

[Sleeptastic]

Just dug out the letter from the captain (25th September) which stated ‘……. You are required to wear a Face Mask that covers your nose and mouth when moving around indoors on board…..’  From memory this arrived in our cabins shortly after the announcement that he made earlier on the same day. Hope this gives you the info you needed..

[wowzz]

32 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

The money had already been spent, so that don't lose that again, what they lose is the different experiences

You are correct, it is a "sunk cost" as accountants say. 

But that doesn't really help if you have spent £5000+ on a cruise. 

[Dermotsgirl]

What strikes me is that every cruise starts as a blank canvas with no masks, as if, this time the cruise line is expecting a miracle and there won't be a Covid outbreak on the ship.  They usually get away with it for week long cruises as everyone disembarks before the extent of the outbreak is fully noticeable. But there's a regular pattern of masks being required in week two of a week cruise, which seems like locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.  For the longer cruises, the boarding requirements seem to be more stringent.   

 

Whilst wearing a mask is no great hardship, this year I've enjoyed some holidays in self- catering accommodation in the countryside and have had a really good time - and barely had to think about masks.

 

I've got a cruise booked for next August with Saga, as I want to see what cruising is like in the Covid era.  I've no doubt I will enjoy being on a ship again, will have to weigh this up against other points.  I'll be shelling out for my most expensive holiday since 2019, placing myself in the highest risk location since the start of the pandemic, having to be hyper aware of Covid mitigations try to avoid catching it as I'd have to go into isolation in my cabin if infected.  I can't help thinking that all that isn't a carefree holiday! 

 

All of those things are a barrier to me wanting to cruise. I'll give it a go next year, but if it ends up being too much effort, it may be my last cruise for a long time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[s&gsjollies]

1 hour ago, Sleeptastic said:

Just dug out the letter from the captain (25th September) which stated ‘……. You are required to wear a Face Mask that covers your nose and mouth when moving around indoors on board…..’  From memory this arrived in our cabins shortly after the announcement that he made earlier on the same day. Hope this gives you the info you needed..

Thank you so much - this is from Ventura I'm assuming. Have to say that although we were assured that "everything will be cleaned down thoroughly so the next cruse will be perfectly safe from Covid", its hard to imagine how this the case when it comes and goes within the day and everything runs on aircon?

We were definitely niaive with our last minute booking but expected to be asked for a PCR proving our status before going on board after all their red Covid warning instructions on their booking  site. It is not realistic expecting people to be honest about not boarding if they've come into contact with Covid etc when people know they're going to lose everything but putting their hand up, and I imagine many will keep their heads down ...P&O are shirking their responsibility by not testing, potentially ruining peoples holidays as well as their health

[Dermotsgirl]

4 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

 

 

So, as a rough estimate based on those figures, it is likely that about 50 people boarding a ship with 3000 passengers and crew will have Covid.  That is living with Covid and I think individuals need to make informed judgements based on that and on their appetite to risk.  But, the same proportion of people involved in every other activity they conduct as part of their everyday life will also have Covid at any given time.  So, if they are happy to do those other activities, they should be happy to cruise.  And there is little logic in trying to impose additional constraints on cruise lines compared with the rest of the travel business and wider society.

 

 

 

When doing their risk assessments, they may be happy to do their day to day activities -  but the risk factor must surely increase on a cruise ship as people are living close together for the period of the cruise.  Living in close proximity to 3000 people for 2 weeks means that you are much more likely to come into contact with infected people than if you were at home and just doing selected activities. 

[Dermotsgirl]

8 minutes ago, GSPG said:

That’s thing, would you prefer putting up with what comes your way on a cruise?

 

If you contracted covid, would you just accept you maybe feel poorly for a couple of days, but still be able to get around and do most things, without a mask?

 

 

Firstly, no one knows if they would just be poorly for a couple of days or whether they would be really ill.

 

Secondly, if I was infected I just wouldn't dream of going round the ship doing what I wanted, particularly without a mask.  I wouldn't want to pass the virus on to people, especially older people who might be more vulnerable than I am.  I feel that one of the contributing factors to Covid being rife on ships is passengers knowing they've got it, but pretending they haven't, and end up spreading it far and wide 

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I feel that one of the contributing factors to Covid being rife on ships is passengers knowing they've got it, but pretending they haven't, and end up spreading it far and wide 

But with P&O's draconian quarantine arrangements, plus lack of financial recompense, it is easy to understand why passengers would act in this way. 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Maybe some of those with more serious health issues should not have booked a cruise holiday, if covid would be a significant problem.

I agree.  

I think the conversation became a little muddled,  as some posts were about people coughing because they may have had covid, and other posts were about people coughing because of other long term healh issues.