Live from Iona Norwegian Fjords 20th May 7 Nights

[Cathygh]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Ok. I think the time makes the biggest difference. At 6.45pm the restaurant will be full with nobody yet leaving. I am hoping that by leaving it until later we might find it moves quicker. There will be six of us. If each couple joins a virtual queue for a different restaurant (as you did) and I send one of the younger ones down to get a pager, we have four chances 😂 

 

All joking apart, I wonder how many groups are joining multiple queues to try to beat the system? Whilst understandable, it would partly explain some of the problems. I know that I have said it multiple times, but P&O have fixed a problem that never existed - and caused loads more as a result! 

Hi 

we tried booking 4 queues on gala night at 6.30. We could only get onto 2 and the other 2 queues remained closed and were still closed when we were called at 8.30

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

All cruise lines, not just P&O, still have a large number of sharing tables, it would be impossible for them to feed up to 8,000 people if they didn't have them.  On Arvia often the only way you could get into the app queue was to accept table sharing, not just in the two MDR's but also The Olive Grove and Diner.  Looking round the two latter venues it didn't seem the sort of place I'd consider sharing a table but the option was there.

 

While you and your good lady are sharing intimate dinners on your table for 2 you need to remember there are hundreds of solo travellers out there who don't particularly want to be Billy No Mates when they dine either. The cruise lines have to cater for everyone from a solo to a family group of 20+ so a blanket 2 or 4 man table regime would be pretty useless to them.

 

On the two big ships there's problems because of volume of people, not the type of tables they want to eat ate. Start messing with the system it goes wrong.

I'm purely saying what I saw on Iona and we tried 3 different MDRs in 4 days

 

I know there are some that want to share. And I'm glad they still can and stlll do

 

That choice remains 

 

But it's very easy and obvious to see that nowadays when given the choice it's a minority choosing to share when given the choice

 

You just have to look around you in the MDR

 

The cruise lines are simply responding to customer needs and desires?

 

They've given people the choice and it's very easy to see what the majority of people do given the choice.

 

You wouldnt want to be sharing a table with people who don't want to share with you would you?

 

Everybody can choose both ways now

 

That's a positive IMO. Not a negative. 

[Cathygh]

13 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Something must be drastically wrong. I’d hazard a guess that the two MDRs on Arvia must have a capacity of around 800 covers each? Let’s say that each table is only used twice per evening, that’s 1,600 people per MDR. Nobody leaves in the first hour, so let’s say departures are phased over 4 hours. That’s 400 people leaving per hour. Makes me wonder if walk ups are getting priority?

Walkups are not getting priority as we tried that last night and on gala night.

Yes there is something wrong. Not enough staff, not enough tables and calling it freedom dining is a breach of the trades description act. 

The number of guests it shows in the queue seems to actually be the number of parties waiting according to one of the waiters. 

[Megabear2]

2 minutes ago, Cathygh said:

Hi 

we tried booking 4 queues on gala night at 6.30. We could only get onto 2 and the other 2 queues remained closed and were still closed when we were called at 8.30

I'm sorry to hear this Cathy.  Not much consolation to you but I did notice that midway through my cruise the pressures for dinner at least eased, I think more people probably had speciality restaurants booked mid to late on in the cruise.  Hopefully that may help you with availability going forward.

[Interestedcruisefan]

19 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

 

 

On the two big ships there's problems because of volume of people, not the type of tables they want to eat ate. Start messing with the system it goes wrong.

 

 

But they wouldn't be filling their big ships with high volumes of people who want to rebook without the choice of restaurants and without the choice of dining without having to share

 

They could just keep the smaller ships they have and the existing customer base

 

You must appreciate that MB

 

As it is they've  created a system that allows both

 

They haven't stopped you sharing. 

 

Nowhere have I personally suggested they should either.

 

I'm glad EVERYBODY  has the  choice 

 

They've "messed with the system" in your words and now have their 2 largest ships ever operating close to full week in week out

 

That's not an example of something going wrong. It's an example of something working.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[alpha whiskey]

1 minute ago, RA10 said:

 

ICF, thank you for all your updates in this thread.  I have read with interest your updates and comments/queries from others.  This has helped us be better prepared and have some idea of what to expect on our cruise in next couple of weeks.  I can se that not all of us can be as lucky as you but I thinks and hope that on balance we could have a normal enjoyable holiday with minimal stress.   

Just to add to these very well documented threads...

We sailed on Iona in January and Arvia in April this year.

Queuing and waiting did not impact on our holiday enjoyment. 

Longest ever wait was 20 mins for a shuttle bus. Have waited for buses much longer at home! 

We did reserve spaces at entertainment venues/dining prior to cruise and the 'app' worked well for 90% of the time.

We are off on Britannia in a few weeks and will be very happy if we experience more of the same. 

Have a lovely time 😊

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

4 minutes ago, Cathygh said:

The number of guests it shows in the queue seems to actually be the number of parties waiting according to one of the waiters. 

I did wonder that

 

So it's tables waiting to be seated rather than  total guests waiting 

 

What time do you ideally like to dine and what time are you joining MDR queues?

[ParisHilton]

Makes sense that it's tables, not people. 

Partly because it looks less daunting.

Partly because unless there's a particularly large party ahead of you, then seating one person takes the same time as seating a table?

And I assume large parties are almost in a separate queue for large tables.

 

oh, are the ducks frowned upon?

[ParisHilton]

26 minutes ago, alpha whiskey said:

If Alesund is on your itinerary you may all enjoy (!)  a walk up the 400 steps to Mount Aksla, depending on the weather and everyone's mobility.

There are plenty of places to rest on the way up, and different viewpoints. The view at the top is just 'WOW'

It will definitely be a different type of walk for your children...and you! 

As the ship docks you can see the steps winding up the side of the Mount ...and so the challenge begins! 

 

Link below might explain it a bit better than me! 

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/aksla-alesund-viewpoint/ 

 

Bookmarked, thank you.

[terrierjohn]

34 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

The problem I think that does certainly exist is that the majority of people on cruise ships do not want to share tables when given the choice 

 

This was really noticeable on the Iona cruise in MDR

 

Shared tables at set times was the only way in the  past that ships could get everybody fed 

 

I think we all realise that. We all accept that. We've all shared tables. Some enjoy it. Some don't. It's almost intimidating for those who have never  experienced it before. Rightly or wrongly. We actually enjoyed it when we first cruised having been worried about it before we cruised. But given the choice we don't share now.

 

That issue may still not exist on smaller ships with lots of cruisers used to doing it and happy to sign up for it and those  cruise holidays can viably try and keep that happening for as long as people pay in enough numbers for shared dining cruises.

 

With the larger cruise ships now though they need to attract hundreds of thousands of new cruisers each year

 

It was really noticeable that MDR on Iona when people are given the CHOICE of whether to share a table or not they choose NOT to share

 

The MDRs were DOMINATED by tables of 2 or 4

 

That's what people are mainly asking for when asked what they want

 

My estimate was 60 per cent of tables  were being used for 2 

 

25 per cent of tables for 4

 

Only 15 per cent were 6s or 8s or more

 

When people are given the choice

 

And maybe half of those tables for 6 plus were family groups rather than sharing tables. So even less than 15 per cent of tables are tables where passengers are asking to share

 

Freedom dining isn't just about what time or where people choose to dine of course.

 

It's very much about whether people want to share a table or not

 

The cruise companies have to try and give their future customers the holiday experience they would want

 

So they did have a problem to fix. If they wanted to attract new customers and give  them a holiday experience they wanted to repeat. Which they need to happen to survive and flourish

 

Also people like the choice to dip in and dip out of dining in the same restaurant at the same time each night which compounds why the cruise companies needed to change. They need to know when people aren't coming in as well as when they are coming in.

 

They can't just have MDR tables waiting empty in case someone comes in or not. They need to know whether the guests are CHOOSING to eat with them each night

 

They wouldn't have changed if they didn't need to 

 

I'm sure of that. They've made it harder for their staff allowing the passengers choices they never had before

 

But the thing we hear complaints about on here has only come about due to the demands of customers and to meet those demands of those customers

 

Sharing tables is still possible every night in MDR. It's just that the vast majority aren't choosing to do it often if at all

Whilst I agree with much of what you say ICF, it is clearly written from your perspective, which you obviously view as the mainstream choice, but that just isnt the case. Covid did reduce the demand for sharing tables, but it is making a recovery, and it definitely has a place in Freedom dining, and not just fixed dining times. 

The current problem with the app IMO, is that there are too many work arounds being introduced, which the computer does not know about, so any AI possibility is totally flawed. Unless and until all bookings of dining and entertainment are captured by the app, then they will continue to have misleading info given out, which combined with the usual P&O IT  flaws is having exactly the opposite effect to your utopian dream.

[Selbourne]

47 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

The problem I think that does certainly exist is that the majority of people on cruise ships do not want to share tables when given the choice 

 

This was really noticeable on the Iona cruise in MDR

 

Shared tables at set times was the only way in the  past that ships could get everybody fed 

 

I think we all realise that. We all accept that. We've all shared tables. Some enjoy it. Some don't. It's almost intimidating for those who have never  experienced it before. Rightly or wrongly. We actually enjoyed it when we first cruised having been worried about it before we cruised. But given the choice we don't share now.

 

That issue may still not exist on smaller ships with lots of cruisers used to doing it and happy to sign up for it and those  cruise holidays can viably try and keep that happening for as long as people pay in enough numbers for shared dining cruises.

 

With the larger cruise ships now though they need to attract hundreds of thousands of new cruisers each year

 

It was really noticeable that MDR on Iona when people are given the CHOICE of whether to share a table or not they choose NOT to share

 

The MDRs were DOMINATED by tables of 2 or 4

 

That's what people are mainly asking for when asked what they want

 

My estimate was 60 per cent of tables  were being used for 2 

 

25 per cent of tables for 4

 

Only 15 per cent were 6s or 8s or more

 

When people are given the choice

 

And maybe half of those tables for 6 plus were family groups rather than sharing tables. So even less than 15 per cent of tables are tables where passengers are asking to share

 

Freedom dining isn't just about what time or where people choose to dine of course.

 

It's very much about whether people want to share a table or not

 

The cruise companies have to try and give their future customers the holiday experience they would want

 

So they did have a problem to fix. If they wanted to attract new customers and give  them a holiday experience they wanted to repeat. Which they need to happen to survive and flourish

 

Also people like the choice to dip in and dip out of dining in the same restaurant at the same time each night which compounds why the cruise companies needed to change. They need to know when people aren't coming in as well as when they are coming in.

 

They can't just have MDR tables waiting empty in case someone comes in or not. They need to know whether the guests are CHOOSING to eat with them each night

 

They wouldn't have changed if they didn't need to 

 

I'm sure of that. They've made it harder for their staff allowing the passengers choices they never had before

 

But the thing we hear complaints about on here has only come about due to the demands of customers and to meet those demands of those customers

 

Sharing tables is still possible every night in MDR. It's just that the vast majority aren't choosing to do it often if at all

The odd thing is that we enjoyed Freedom Dining for many years on all the P&O ships without any of the issues that now exist. Worst we ever had was a 45 minute wait with a pager for a non-sharing table when on Britannia in the peak summer school holidays. I repeat. Fixing a problem that never existed. 

[ParisHilton]

A pager, even if the pager is an app, does seem to be the best option. Especially if you could be paged for availability in multiple restaurants, though I guess it could take 15mins to get from one end to t'other......

 

On the other hand, I guess if you 'know' you've got a 30 minute wait, you know it's worth going to the bar, as opposed to a 10 min wait you might spend taking in the views.

Edited May 30, 2023 by ParisHilton

[Interestedcruisefan]

Just now, terrierjohn said:

Whilst I agree with much of what you say ICF, it is clearly written from your perspective, which you obviously view as the mainstream choice, but that just isnt the case. Covid did reduce the demand for sharing tables, but it is making a recovery, and it definitely has a place in Freedom dining, and not just fixed dining times. 

The current problem with the app IMO, is that there are too many work arounds being introduced, which the computer does not know about, so any AI possibility is totally flawed. Unless and until all bookings of dining and entertainment are captured by the app, then they will continue to have misleading info given out, which combined with the usual P&O IT  flaws is having exactly the opposite effect to your utopian dream.

It should only improve though John. The ships can't get any more popular than they are now. The systems can improve with time

 

Systems will also improve as more people get used to the app

 

Often you read about things improving as the cruise progresses 

 

I think a big part of that is new cruisers starting to understand how the app works better and getting the hang of it

 

In time more and more P and O cruisers will be experienced with the app. Which can only help

 

Also I'm not trying to say it from my perspective I'm saying what I saw in the MDRs on Iona

 

If you check the thread whilst I was on I commented about how noticeable it was the large number of tables for 2 and 4 on Iona compared to 8 and larger 

 

That's not my perspective. That's just  what people are choosing now on the bigger ships

 

 

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

You wouldnt want to be sharing a table with people who don't want to share with you would you?

On occasion it was the only option for them and me!  Remember I booked everything in advance too, no app for me apart from breakfast. Booked just after midnight when the bookings opened, still required to share tables.  I didn't mind personally.

 

Desperate people accept anything, and there were some very desperate people in the walk up queue.  Of course not everyone wishes to share, my husband detests it which is why he chooses freedom dining on Britannia and Azura when we sail on those ships.  However if he'd been on Arvia with me last fortnight he'd have had absolutely no choice.  

 

All I'm saying to you is you've had two great experiences, others haven't and reading Cathygh's current live reports she is also not enjoying the same experience as you had.

 

I board ships with an open mind. If I'm alone I try to speak to as many as I can to see if my opinions are biased.  It's easy to forget every person has different needs and expectations.  My observations based on queues and app crashes and queues are just that but others may have been thinking it was okay and the normal. That's perfectly fine by me if they're happy great but if people are miserable about it then others should know there might be bumps in the road.  Arguing with someone with the opposite opinion to me, it's a time consuming and pointless and that's also okay.  An easy life, that's what cruising is to me.

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The odd thing is that we enjoyed Freedom Dining for many years on all the P&O ships without any of the issues that now exist. Worst we ever had was a 45 minute wait with a pager for a non-sharing table when on Britannia in the peak summer school holidays. I repeat. Fixing a problem that never existed. 

We've enjoyed it on Arvia and  Iona without a single problem. Never waiting the times described by others. 

 

If there's long queues we just join earlier

 

Never had to use a pager on these two cruises

 

Arvia in Caribbean included a half term week as well?

 

Now the test for us will be when we try MDRs on Arvia I guess

 

But for all the other restaurants no problems with freedom dining at all

 

Main problem was actually not joining the queue too soon to be  called earlier that we wanted

 

Honestly

 

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

We've enjoyed it on Arvia and  Iona without a single problem. Never waiting the times described by others. 

 

If there's long queues we just join earlier

 

Never had to use a pager on these two cruises

 

Arvia in Caribbean included a half term week as well?

 

Now the test for us will be when we try MDRs on Arvia I guess

 

But for all the other restaurants no problems with freedom dining at all

 

Main problem was actually not joining the queue too soon to be  called earlier that we wanted

 

Honestly

 

I am keeping everything crossed that our experience on Iona mirrors yours, and not that of some others 🤞

[Interestedcruisefan]

23 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

On occasion it was the only option for them and me!  Remember I booked everything in advance too, no app for me apart from breakfast. Booked just after midnight when the bookings opened, still required to share tables.  I didn't mind personally.

 

Desperate people accept anything, and there were some very desperate people in the walk up queue.  Of course not everyone wishes to share, my husband detests it which is why he chooses freedom dining on Britannia and Azura when we sail on those ships.  However if he'd been on Arvia with me last fortnight he'd have had absolutely no choice.  

 

All I'm saying to you is you've had two great experiences, others haven't and reading Cathygh's current live reports she is also not enjoying the same experience as you had.

 

I board ships with an open mind. If I'm alone I try to speak to as many as I can to see if my opinions are biased.  It's easy to forget every person has different needs and expectations.  My observations based on queues and app crashes and queues are just that but others may have been thinking it was okay and the normal. That's perfectly fine by me if they're happy great but if people are miserable about it then others should know there might be bumps in the road.  Arguing with someone with the opposite opinion to me, it's a time consuming and pointless and that's also okay.  An easy life, that's what cruising is to me.

 

It's very much an easy life for me MB. 

 

I've yet to face any of the problems others faced. 

 

I can't come on here and pretend I have. And  I've been on Arvia  in a school holiday week.

 

I've said my caveat about MDR on Arvia above. Like always I will be honest the minute I do face a problem as well

 

I just havent so far. And I kind of hope if I did I would find a solution or workaround. But I can't find solutions to problems I haven't yet faced. 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[ParisHilton]

Oh, bit of a direction change. We seemed to be getting fairly regular posts throughout your journey. Do you have special wi-fi access, or is it not as bad as pretty much everyone seems to say?

(bad being , awful\unavailable\might as well join the queue for the refund now).

Oh, and I think I'll need to book a councillor for when my girls find out there's no wifi.

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 minute ago, Selbourne said:

I am keeping everything crossed that our experience on Iona mirrors yours, and not that of some others 🤞

I hope so too

[Fionboard]

44 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Just when I thought it was safe to get on a ship again...😱

And that they were reducing plastic!

[Interestedcruisefan]

4 minutes ago, ParisHilton said:

Oh, bit of a direction change. We seemed to be getting fairly regular posts throughout your journey. Do you have special wi-fi access, or is it not as bad as pretty much everyone seems to say?

(bad being , awful\unavailable\might as well join the queue for the refund now).

Oh, and I think I'll need to book a councillor for when my girls find out there's no wifi.

I'm home now!

 

I just paid for essential or standard wifi. (Can't remember what it was called)

 

On board I think I lost wifi for about 10 minutes one day 

 

It was far more reliable than in the Caribbean where I lost it several times for longer

 

The ships can see exactly when you've used Wi-Fi so if you every want a refund have some facts ready to back it up as they know exactly when you've used It and they know when it's been down or not

 

And they're print all that out if you ask for a refund (which I did in Caribbean) and got 50 per cent or 25 per cent back. Can't remember  which now. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[CarlaMarie]

25 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

It should only improve though John. The ships can't get any more popular than they are now. The systems can improve with time

 

Systems will also improve as more people get used to the app

 

Often you read about things improving as the cruise progresses 

 

I think a big part of that is new cruisers starting to understand how the app works better and getting the hang of it

 

In time more and more P and O cruisers will be experienced with the app. Which can only help

 

Also I'm not trying to say it from my perspective I'm saying what I saw in the MDRs on Iona

 

If you check the thread whilst I was on I commented about how noticeable it was the large number of tables for 2 and 4 on Iona compared to 8 and larger 

 

That's not my perspective. That's just  what people are choosing now on the bigger ships

 

 

 

The ships are popular at the moment because of the attractive fares, it is mostly attracting new cruisers - 2000 new cruisers on Britannia in term time proves this. It is also the full proper year of having both Arvia and Iona in operation, which again attracts more interest. 

 

Next year, and probably from the winter season approaching, will be very telling on whether the new cruisers have been enticed to come back after their first, and if the loyal remain loyal. 

 

You can take this year with a pinch of salt. 

 

They genuinely have messed with the system onboard that didn't need fixing in the first place. But right now you will not see the affects of that, and how passengers feel, until like I say the next full cruising season begins. 

 

Those ships need filling, and to keep new cruisers and the loyal everything onboard has to be managed better. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by CarlaMarie

[CarlaMarie]

5 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I'm home now!

 

I just paid for essential or standard wifi. (Can't remember what it was called)

 

On board I think I lost wifi for about 10 minutes one day 

 

It was far more reliable than in the Caribbean where I lost it several times for longer

 

The ships can see exactly when you've used Wi-Fi so if you every want a refund have some facts ready to back it up as they know exactly when you've used It and they know when it's been down or not

 

And they're print all that out if you ask for a refund (which I did in Caribbean) and got 50 per cent or 25 per cent back. Can't remember  which now. 

 

You were lucky with the wifi in the fjords. It is often lost due to the location and gets printed in the Horizon paper that interruptions will occur. Britannia lost wifi frequently on one of hers (plus the TV), which is the norm for that area.

[Fionboard]

The current price reductions show that maybe some cruises are not selling as well as they might. Some good deals around, particularly for solos. 

[Britboys]

2 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

The current price reductions show that maybe some cruises are not selling as well as they might. Some good deals around, particularly for solos. 

Indeed. Not just P&O either. I'm seeing cheap, late deals on many lines ex uk.