Looking for accurate info on ports and ship size

[OlsSalt]

Here is one example for Hong Kong - Close in Ocean Terminal for smaller ships and the more remote Kai Tak terminal for larger ones.

 

Cruise ship  schedule for  in-town Ocean Terminal docking: http://www.oceanterminal.com.hk/en/schedule.php?cid=1&y=2023&m=6&f=t#CruiseSchedule 

 

Wonderful to get an over-night at this terminal, with the lights of Hong Kong and the harbor traffic right out your window or balcony.

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

22 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Except they are not visiting the same ports.  Most of the places are not visited by their competition.  Many of them are not even reached by those shorter cruises.

 

Pretty straight forward to look at the list of ports each of the main stream lines hit and see how many of them are the same.

 

For example HAL shows 526 different destinations including ports and cruising destinations.

For comparison Celebrity shows about 300.  Not as easy to compile for Princess.  But I would expect it to be a bit more than Celebrity, but less than HAL.  I would expect that HAL will reach at least 25% more more than their competition ( US, adult focused mass market   Princess and Celebrity)

[Guest ldtr]

11 hours ago, cbr663 said:

I think HAL has certainly lost its ability to visit smaller ports with its increasing ship sizes.  Your recent experience on the Westerdam with docking in industrial ports and having to incur charges to shuttle out of them illustrates for me that while HAL is trying to find a work around, it isn't always a great one.

 

We've recently returned from an Alaska cruise on the Koningsdam and faced head on the impact of many larger ships in port at the same time.  We last sailed to Alaska in 2014 on the Volendam at the beginning of the season mid-week.  We were the only ship in port and the ship wasn't at capacity.  It was a wonderful cruise.

 

This past May the Koningsdam sailed the traditional weekend route.  The ship was at full capacity and in every port we tied up beside 3 - 4 other large ships from Princess, HAL and X.  It was a marketably different port experience and the whole experience has me now reevaluating how we will cruise moving forward.  DW and I have had lots of discussion on it since returning.  We haven't come to a consensus yet, but we have agreed that the cruise we booked onboard for Norway next year on another Pinnacle Class ship will be cancelled.

You are going to face that in Alaska and the Caribbean even on smaller premium lines.  Pretty much the same for Greece.  Some areas such as the Caribbean and Alaska the markets are over saturated no matter what the ship size unless you get down to very small exploration ships. The main reason I am doing a 50 passenger ship in Greece this fall.

[Guest ldtr]

9 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

Once in Singapore (another cruise line), we docked in the passenger terminal for a two day visit only to find during the night we had moved to the industrial port the next day. Shuttles were provided.

 

Ship size works both ways -some ports make more money letting the larger ships take  the prime docking location and send the smaller ones to less desirable locations, others reject them on sheer size and lack of capacity. Or communities like the smaller ones, but prohibit the larger ones

 

Or bribe demands can even cross hands up front. You can never know for sure. Or with any guarantee of when you will find out for certain.

Had the same thing happen in Quebec City.  First day down town, next day across the harbor a mile or so from down town.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

or did they just pay more? 
 

 

Since ports tend to charge by ship size the larger ship would have certainly paid more.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

Except they are not visiting the same ports.  Most of the places are not visited by their competition.  Many of them are not even reached by those shorter cruises.

 

Pretty straight forward to look at the list of ports each of the main stream lines hit and see how many of them are the same.

 

For example HAL shows 526 different destinations including ports and cruising destinations.

 

Thanks -- that is a very salient point. Well worth further consideration.

 

[WriterOnDeck]

The one place I can think of where larger ships have an advantage is Sydney, Australia. The HAL Vista ships can only fit under the harbour bridge at low tide, so they time their arrival/departure so they can get to the remove White Bay Terminal. One lucky larger ship gets the Overseas Passenger Terminal at Circular Quay. Other larger ships must tender.

 

My most wonderful experiences were on the Amsterdam in Shanghai, just across from Pudong on the Huangpu River. We had to back a half mile down river when leaving to have room to turn. One year the Volendam was docked there with us. The Westerdam was an hour away at the industrial port. But I guess that's moot for now, as I predict that even when cruising returns to China, the Chinese will hold these special berths for their growing cruise industry.

[YXU AC*SE]

I think another thing in play and worth consideration here is vertical integration and revenue capture -- where cruise lines own their own islands and/or port facilities and/or tour convenors / hotels -- naturally the tendency will be to prefer themselves -- or partners where they have negotiated commercial relationships.  So resultantly, the voyage planning of selecting Port A versus Port B (and dockage x versus dockage y) is less about building up customer experience, and more about EBITDA maximization and/or lowering pax per diems to attract customers.     Scott.

Edited June 11, 2023 by YXU AC*SE

[JeffElizabeth]

On 6/10/2023 at 9:53 AM, cbr663 said:

I think HAL has certainly lost its ability to visit smaller ports with its increasing ship sizes.  Your recent experience on the Westerdam with docking in industrial ports and having to incur charges to shuttle out of them illustrates for me that while HAL is trying to find a work around, it isn't always a great one.

 

We've recently returned from an Alaska cruise on the Koningsdam and faced head on the impact of many larger ships in port at the same time.  We last sailed to Alaska in 2014 on the Volendam at the beginning of the season mid-week.  We were the only ship in port and the ship wasn't at capacity.  It was a wonderful cruise.

 

This past May the Koningsdam sailed the traditional weekend route.  The ship was at full capacity and in every port we tied up beside 3 - 4 other large ships from Princess, HAL and X.  It was a marketably different port experience and the whole experience has me now reevaluating how we will cruise moving forward.  DW and I have had lots of discussion on it since returning.  We haven't come to a consensus yet, but we have agreed that the cruise we booked onboard for Norway next year on another Pinnacle Class ship will be cancelled.

Great points! We thought about going on luxury lines with fewer passengers so we would see the more intimate ports alas, those ships are still huge. One of our last cruises on the Prinsendam was to these small ports in Cornwall and other British Isles spots. It was awesome.  The townsfolk and mayors would come out to greet us, and we didn't feel like we were overwhelming the communities.