Received Balcony upgrade with new room assignment. 5 hours later NCL reneged on the upgrade. Has this happened to anyone?

[cruiseny4life]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Where is that legal language written? I'm sorry, but I don't believe you.

I review many contracts every single week. And, in almost every single one is the statement that if we use a subcontractor (which we have permission to do, per the contract), we (my company, the primary company) take all legal and financial responsibilities for the work the subcontractor does. Do we have recourse with our customer? Nope. But, we sure as heck can sue a subcontractor if they don't perform as expected. This is common in contracts. Very common. Every day common. 

 

And no, I'm not going to produce any evidence of this as it would be sharing proprietary information. It's on you, at this point, to prove your own fallacy. 

[DCGuy64]

22 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

And no, I'm not going to produce any evidence of this as it would be sharing proprietary information. It's on you, at this point, to prove your own fallacy. 

LOL. You aren't willing to produce any evidence, so guess what? Neither am I. 😉

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, Belletora said:

And no, not saying the OP is deserving of any type of compensation.

I agree with you, but the OP's initial point seemed to suggest otherwise.

[cruiseny4life]

17 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

LOL. You aren't willing to produce any evidence, so guess what? Neither am I. 😉

I'm not surprised. In all discussions you're very quick to cast aspersions, but very slow to produce even a scrap of legitimate detail. Personality aside...

 

The OP was made whole by NCL after an error by their subcontractor. No one is really out anything, except a wee bit of false excitement. I doubt anyone's hopes and dreams were crushed. Ok, well, maybe a little. Could NCL offer a paltry platter of chocolate covered strawberries as a gesture of goodwill or comp a room service fee or two? Wouldn't cost much, but might go far in satisfying a customer that had a bad (but not that bad) of an experience. If I were in charge of their customer service, I would. I've certainly made similar gestures in the past to customers. 

[UKstages]

my hopes and dreams were crushed.

 

and all I got was this lousy tee shirt.

[Selion]

2 hours ago, UKstages said:

the cruise line bears all responsibility for the performance of its contractors and subcontractors.

 

 

Have you read any cruise line ticket contracts and T&Cs lately?

 

From NCL, this part of its T&C specifically about transportation (https://www.ncl.com/about/terms-and-conditions#s5m13) :

 

Transportation Liability

In arranging for the transportation of passengers to and from the vessel or for excursions, accommodations or any other activities away from the vessel, Norwegian Cruise Line does so only as a convenience to the passenger. The passenger hereby agrees that Norwegian Cruise Line shall not be liable or responsible in any respect for any property damage or personal injury arising from the selection of any mode of transportation, accommodation, excursion or activity on the passenger's behalf.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line disclaims any responsibility for personal injury or property damage arising out of the acts, omission or negligence of any air carrier, hotel, restauranteur or other provider of the acts, omission or negligence of any air carrier, hotel, restauranteur or other provider of services offered in addition to the ship's cruise, such as concessionaires operating photography, shops, beauty salon, laundry, gaming, etc.

 

NCL shall not be responsible for any damage or inconvenience caused by late air, car or motorcoach arrivals, nor for any personal injuries or loss or damage to baggage or other property occurring off the vessel.

 

Any liability for loss or damage to personal baggage is in accordance with the Guest Ticket Contract

provisions. Passengers' baggage and property are transported, stored and handled at owners' risk at all times.

 

NCL is not responsible or liable for any loss, theft, pilferage, damage or delay to passengers' baggage or personal effects. Air, car, motorcoach and ground transfer shall be the responsibility of the provider of the services and in accordance with applicable limitations.

 

As a convenience to passengers, Norwegian Cruise Line may sell tickets for shoreside tours or arrange other services which are operated by independent contractors, but Norwegian Cruise Line shall not be responsible in any way whatsoever for any damage, loss, injury or death arising out of any service provided ashore or by any airline, motel, hotel, ground carrier or any other provider of any of the services provided or offered in addition to the ship's cruise.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line also reserves the right to change its itinerary whenever advisable or necessary which may cause all or any part of a tour, program or other service provided by independent third parties to be changed or abandoned. In this case, Norwegian Cruise Line will not be responsible for any losses or expenses caused by reason of such changes or abandonment.

NCL's responsibility does not extend beyond the vessel. Therefore, any arrangements made by or for passengers either before boarding the ship or whenever disembarking entirely from the ship are at the passengers' own risk. Passengers going ashore on their own are responsible for reboarding the ship prior to departure from port.

 

 

 

Oh, and it gets better!  NCL doesn't even guarantee its ships will be floating (https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket Contract_US_EN_02_2023.pdf) :

6. Limitations and Disclaimers of Liability:
(a) THE CARRIER AND THE GUEST HEREBY AGREE THERE IS NO WARRANTY, WHETHER
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS TO THE FITNESS, SEAWORTHINESS, OR CONDITION OF THE VESSEL...

 

And we are expecting a cruise line will be responsible for its subcontractor and contractors...

 

 

[Agent999]

26 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

The OP was made whole by NCL after an error by their subcontractor. No one is really out anything, except a wee bit of false excitement. I doubt anyone's hopes and dreams were crushed. Ok, well, maybe a little. Could NCL offer a paltry platter of chocolate covered strawberries as a gesture of goodwill or comp a room service fee or two? Wouldn't cost much, but might go far in satisfying a customer that had a bad (but not that bad) of an experience. If I were in charge of their customer service, I would. I've certainly made similar gestures in the past to customers. 

 

It is interesting how this always comes back to NCL and compensation. Why not advocate that the subcontractor provide the compensation. Why should NCL be put out because of a subcontractor's error?

 

Wondering if people would make the same argument(s) if it was THEIR subcontractor that made an error? For example:

 

Say you had an NCL cruise booked. Final payment day arrives and you instruct your credit card issuing financial institution (your subcontractor) to provide NCL with the required payment on your behalf. Your subcontractor then commits an error which results in your payment not being made as required in the contract between you and NCL. NCL then cancels your reservation and keeps your deposit (per your contract). Who are you mad at here? NCL or your subcontractor for their error?

[Belletora]

4 minutes ago, Agent999 said:

 

It is interesting how this always comes back to NCL and compensation. Why not advocate that the subcontractor provide the compensation. Why should NCL be put out because of a subcontractor's error?

 

Wondering if people would make the same argument(s) if it was THEIR subcontractor that made an error? For example:

 

Say you had an NCL cruise booked. Final payment day arrives and you instruct your credit card issuing financial institution (your subcontractor) to provide NCL with the required payment on your behalf. Your subcontractor then commits an error which results in your payment not being made as required in the contract between you and NCL. NCL then cancels your reservation and keeps your deposit (per your contract). Who are you mad at here? NCL or your subcontractor for their error?

 

 

The contractor is the responsible party to the client. The subcontractor is responsible to the contractor. 

If I, as a contactor, am hired by a client to perform a duty, then subsequently hire a subcontractor to do some of the work, I would be the one who answers to my client. Yes, I would, in turn, go after the subcontractor to make myself whole. However, the client did not hire the subcontractor, even though they may have had to have interaction with them. 

 

 

While I understand where you are going with this, the logic has a flaw. Your card issuer is NOT a subcontractor. But yes, I would hold myself responsible. This example highlights procrastination. Always give yourself room for the correction of mistakes when possible. 

[insidecabin]

44 minutes ago, Selion said:

 

 

Have you read any cruise line ticket contracts and T&Cs lately?

 

From NCL, this part of its T&C specifically about transportation (https://www.ncl.com/about/terms-and-conditions#s5m13) :

 

Transportation Liability

In arranging for the transportation of passengers to and from the vessel or for excursions, accommodations or any other activities away from the vessel, Norwegian Cruise Line does so only as a convenience to the passenger. The passenger hereby agrees that Norwegian Cruise Line shall not be liable or responsible in any respect for any property damage or personal injury arising from the selection of any mode of transportation, accommodation, excursion or activity on the passenger's behalf.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line disclaims any responsibility for personal injury or property damage arising out of the acts, omission or negligence of any air carrier, hotel, restauranteur or other provider of the acts, omission or negligence of any air carrier, hotel, restauranteur or other provider of services offered in addition to the ship's cruise, such as concessionaires operating photography, shops, beauty salon, laundry, gaming, etc.

 

NCL shall not be responsible for any damage or inconvenience caused by late air, car or motorcoach arrivals, nor for any personal injuries or loss or damage to baggage or other property occurring off the vessel.

 

Any liability for loss or damage to personal baggage is in accordance with the Guest Ticket Contract

provisions. Passengers' baggage and property are transported, stored and handled at owners' risk at all times.

 

NCL is not responsible or liable for any loss, theft, pilferage, damage or delay to passengers' baggage or personal effects. Air, car, motorcoach and ground transfer shall be the responsibility of the provider of the services and in accordance with applicable limitations.

 

As a convenience to passengers, Norwegian Cruise Line may sell tickets for shoreside tours or arrange other services which are operated by independent contractors, but Norwegian Cruise Line shall not be responsible in any way whatsoever for any damage, loss, injury or death arising out of any service provided ashore or by any airline, motel, hotel, ground carrier or any other provider of any of the services provided or offered in addition to the ship's cruise.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line also reserves the right to change its itinerary whenever advisable or necessary which may cause all or any part of a tour, program or other service provided by independent third parties to be changed or abandoned. In this case, Norwegian Cruise Line will not be responsible for any losses or expenses caused by reason of such changes or abandonment.

NCL's responsibility does not extend beyond the vessel. Therefore, any arrangements made by or for passengers either before boarding the ship or whenever disembarking entirely from the ship are at the passengers' own risk. Passengers going ashore on their own are responsible for reboarding the ship prior to departure from port.

 

 

 

Oh, and it gets better!  NCL doesn't even guarantee its ships will be floating (https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket Contract_US_EN_02_2023.pdf) :

6. Limitations and Disclaimers of Liability:
(a) THE CARRIER AND THE GUEST HEREBY AGREE THERE IS NO WARRANTY, WHETHER
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS TO THE FITNESS, SEAWORTHINESS, OR CONDITION OF THE VESSEL...

 

And we are expecting a cruise line will be responsible for its subcontractor and contractors...

 

 

In every cruise contract UK(EU will have equivalent) there is legislation that cannot be changed by the contract.

 

Responsibility for the performance of the package

15.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

(2) The organiser is liable to the traveller for the performance of the travel services included in the package travel contract, irrespective of whether those services are to be performed by the organiser or by other travel service providers.

 

 

 

[Selion]

2 hours ago, insidecabin said:

In every cruise contract UK(EU will have equivalent) there is legislation that cannot be changed by the contract.

 

Responsibility for the performance of the package

15.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

(2) The organiser is liable to the traveller for the performance of the travel services included in the package travel contract, irrespective of whether those services are to be performed by the organiser or by other travel service providers.

 

That's great for UK & EU cruisers!  US cruisers are left to fend for ourselves, but public shaming on social media is always an option.

[UKstages]

2 hours ago, Selion said:

Have you read any cruise line ticket contracts and T&Cs lately?

indeed I have. there is nothing in there that contradicts my statement.
 

the context you left out is that this is a discussion about the processing of upgrades. there was no liability with regard to personal injury, property damage, inconvenience due to late air, coach or motorcar arrivals. there was no theft nor loss nor damage nor injury nor death.

the cruise line bears all responsibility for the performance of its contractors and subcontractors. If your upgrade doesn’t go through or is mishandled, the correct entity to complain to is NCL, not the subcontracted firm that processes the upgrade bids.

 

[Selion]

8 minutes ago, UKstages said:

If your upgrade doesn’t go through or is mishandled, the correct entity to complain to is NCL, not the subcontracted firm that processes the upgrade bids.

While I agree it's NCL that should be contacted if there's an issue/question with the upgrade, it's not because NCL is held responsible for their contractors.  It's because NCL has the final say in accepting the upgrade bid or not:

Norwegian Cruise Line reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to decide whether or not to accept your Offer, and it makes no representation that any Guest will be upgraded regardless of whether or not cabins are available in the category for which an Offer is being made.

 

https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/content/upgrade-advantage-terms

#12

[BebeZed]

I just can't believe you all are *still* debating this... but it IS fascinating to read all the opinions.

 

[UKstages]

respectfully, all of post #87 is a straw man argument.

 

that’s not what’s being discussed.

 

if there is something wrong with the way your upgrade was processed, who ya gonna call?

 

(the ghostbusters, obviously. they’re very good with this sort of thing. but after them… who ya gonna call?) 

 

you’ll call NCL… not because they have final say in accepting the upgrade bid, but because you have a business relationship with them and not their subcontracted firm, the identity of which you may not even know.

[Agent999]

3 hours ago, Belletora said:

While I understand where you are going with this, the logic has a flaw. Your card issuer is NOT a subcontractor.

 

Except that they are. They are YOUR subcontractor in that they have a relationship to you via your cardholder contract and they have the job of making the payment on your behalf.

 

However, none of that matters here. The subcontractor made an error, the error was caught, apologized for, and the client made whole immediately...all before the last sentence of this would kick in:

 

UPGRADE ADVANTAGE PROGRAM
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
The following terms and conditions ("Terms and Conditions") apply to all offers (each an "Offer" or a "Bid") made by you ("Guest", "you", "passenger") to NCL Corporation Ltd. ("Norwegian Cruise Line", "we", "us") for an opportunity to upgrade from the class of service that was originally purchased for travel with Norwegian Cruise Line to a higher class of service ("Upgrade"). This Upgrade program gives you a chance to place an Offer on an opportunity to upgrade from the class of service already purchased. Your Offer is not final and binding unless and until Norwegian Cruise Line officially accepts it.

 

As NCL never officially accepted the upgrade, this entire discussion is moot.

[SeekingKillerWhales!]

10 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Oh, I do think you've misunderstood what I meant by the above examples. What I was saying is that I'm not at fault if the taxi driver gets me there late, AND NEITHER IS NCL. The taxi driver is at fault. If I place a bid on a 3rd party bidding site and the system incorrectly assigns me a cabin and then retracts it, IT'S NOT THE CRUISE LINE'S FAULT, EITHER. (Sorry for all caps, it's meant for emphasis only) The OP seemed to be blaming NCL for the mishap created by the bidding site, and my point is: NOT NCL'S FAULT. 3rd party company not owned by NCL, therefore ZERO liability.

So the taxi driver will pay to get you to the next port? Good luck with that.

 

And the bidding site works for NCL, so NCL holds control over their actions and is responsible for them. Another example if the bidding site accidently puts 15 different bids into one cabin, and those cabins are sold because of it, who is going to make it up to 14 of the fifteen parties that made bids, had paid off their cabins months ago, have plane tickets, etc.? 

[jules181]

OP got the room they paid for, at the price they expected.

 

Upgrades aren't guaranteed.  Mistakes happen.  

 

[DCGuy64]

14 hours ago, SeekingKillerWhales! said:

So the taxi driver will pay to get you to the next port? Good luck with that.

 

And the bidding site works for NCL, so NCL holds control over their actions and is responsible for them. Another example if the bidding site accidently puts 15 different bids into one cabin, and those cabins are sold because of it, who is going to make it up to 14 of the fifteen parties that made bids, had paid off their cabins months ago, have plane tickets, etc.? 

Sorry, but no. That's not how it works. As someone else pointed out, the same bidding site is used by multiple cruise lines. They can't/don't all have control over a 3rd party's actions. Face it: this is an argument you aren't going to win. Time to move on.

[UKstages]

some people are having difficulty grasping the concept of duality of responsibility. deep within the smithy of their souls, they somehow feel that the folks who process the bids should be held accountable. and they are sorta kinda right.

 

sorta.

 

so let me try this again.

 

NCL is responsible for the actions of its contractor. if a customer has a complaint about how their bid was processed, the appropriate entity to complain to is NCL. and NCL will handle all communications with that customer related to the inconvenience or the inappropriate processing of their bid.

 

behind the scenes, the contractor is responsible to NCL.

 

NCL will discuss the matter with them, find out what happened and why and, if the contractor is somehow at fault, NCL will demand corrective measures be taken to ensure that whatever happened doesn't happen again. there could be a contractual penalty (fine). there could be new performance standards enacted to which the contractor must adhere. in extreme cases, personnel could be terminated or NCL could terminate its agreement with the contractor and take its business elsewhere.

 

so, the contractor is responsible... to NCL.

 

but the contractor does not have to talk to the customer nor does it have to make the customer whole... NCL does.

 

[tscoffey]

All these legal opinions flying all over the topic leads me to believe that Shakespeare may indeed have had a point🙃

[insidecabin]

19 hours ago, Agent999 said:

 

Except that they are. They are YOUR subcontractor in that they have a relationship to you via your cardholder contract and they have the job of making the payment on your behalf.

 

However, none of that matters here. The subcontractor made an error, the error was caught, apologized for, and the client made whole immediately...all before the last sentence of this would kick in:

 

UPGRADE ADVANTAGE PROGRAM
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
The following terms and conditions ("Terms and Conditions") apply to all offers (each an "Offer" or a "Bid") made by you ("Guest", "you", "passenger") to NCL Corporation Ltd. ("Norwegian Cruise Line", "we", "us") for an opportunity to upgrade from the class of service that was originally purchased for travel with Norwegian Cruise Line to a higher class of service ("Upgrade"). This Upgrade program gives you a chance to place an Offer on an opportunity to upgrade from the class of service already purchased. Your Offer is not final and binding unless and until Norwegian Cruise Line officially accepts it.

 

As NCL never officially accepted the upgrade, this entire discussion is moot.

this is what it says on the offer I have .

 

Once your bid is accepted, the upgrade amount paid is final and non-refundable.

 

offer, acceptance, consideration should be binding on both parties..

 

its a NCL program the offer was accepted as payment was  taken.

 

 

I have checked a previous upgrade

 

email comes from NCL with

Congratulations! Your offer to upgrade your stateroom on your upcoming cruise has been successful.

 

payment is taken by NCL

 

 

There is no evidence the contracted party made the error, somewhere the procedures and safeguards failed to secure the cabin.

Edited June 22, 2023 by insidecabin

[insidecabin]

Even says it in the video,   offer accepted then payment taken(1:30)

 

 

[UKstages]

2 hours ago, tscoffey said:

All these legal opinions flying all over

 

i myself never offered a legal opinion.

 

i focused strictly on the customer service aspects of this query.

 

this is fundamentally a question about who "owns" the customer relationship.

[schmoopie17]

Back to the original question (minus the four pages of legal mumbo-jumbo since then)...

 

@BigPapaGato was due to board his cruise on June 15. Today is a week later, so assuming it was a week-long cruise, it would be interesting to have him come back with an update.

[Two Wheels Only]

46 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

 

@BigPapaGato was due to board his cruise on June 15. Today is a week later, so assuming it was a week-long cruise, it would be interesting to have him come back with an update.

 

Maybe the moral of the story is to book what you want and are comfortable paying so that there is no drama/disappointment with upgrading.....🤔