Bigger ships may not be better

[JTJ]

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060316/BUSINESS/603160321/1003

 

Another interesting article from the Miami Beach cruise industry trade show.

 

I like this exchange:

 

"Royal Caribbean President Adam Goldstein said his company is focusing on bringing the super-large Freedom of the Seas vessel into service, while planning for the arrival of the even-larger Genesis in several years.

 

That prompted Carnival President Robert Dickinson to suggest Carnival is not as interested in pushing the envelope of ship size as much as Royal Carribean, which he said is "having an arm's race with itself."

 

I wonder if these guys go out and bend elbos together in the afternoon

[WI-Cruiser]

I hope RCI doesn't focus totally on the larger ships. We really like the Vision and Radiance classes much more so than the Voyager class ships. I doubt we'll ever cruise on the Freedom, let alone on a Genesis class - just seems to big for me. Don't like the extra crowds, tendering more often, etc.

[RiverRev]

You know, I just don't get this "too big" mentality. I think folks make an assumtion that amenities, like pools, activities, dining space, casino space and, especially, disembarkation space remain the same. They do not. There is a science to the creation of space. Engineers realize that for every additional cabin there must be X square feet of these ancillary spaces. The reality is larger ships may have more private space than some of the smaller ships because of the flow and diversity of its public spaces.

[wwinfl91]

The bigger the ship the more people that have to get off at every port. Tendering becomes more and more a problem the bigger a ship is.

 

IMHO what the cruise lines are trying to do with the bigger ships is convince people who don't care about where the ship goes and who are content to stay on board, use and pay for the amendities and make the cruise lines more money.

 

To me, again IMHO, HAL's Maasdam size ships are the perfect size. Big enough to have most everything but still small enough that it doesn't take all day to get everyone off the ship.

 

Have a great next cruise.

[seadancer]

Not trying to argue ship size with you River but the ports are already to crowded now .If you pull in a half dozen ships with that many more people then the ports have really become to crowded. Enough to make me consider something else in a lot more smaller or exclusive class that goes to not so ordinary ports. I go on vacation to relax not fight crowds and i live near WDW so i'm used to a certain amount of crowdiness. Maybe all inclusives are the new relaxing vacation.

 

Seeeuuu

Jeff

[RiverRev]

Okay, agreeing not to argue, just to amplify my point, don't you think RCL knows that they will need to augment their tenders? I think this was in their minds when they decided to use land based tenders in Grand Caymen and Labadee. They already know that there will need to be higher volume tendering and they probably have it in the plan. I live near NYC and often go to baseball games. You can sit in the stands at one of the parks and watch the trains of the subway gather around the seventh inning as the MTA prepares for the momentary increased volume.

 

Now to the other issue of ports...

 

First, supply will always rise to meet demand. If the number of cruise passengers increase so will the number of shops, restaurants, and tour providers.

 

Second, supply will always rise to meet demand. New ports will open to accomodate the new ships and their passengers. Just think we may get to see something different out there.

 

My point is this. RCL is not directed by a bunch of brainless baboons who sit in an office and do not contemplate the ramifications of their actions. They did not rise to their position in the cruise world/vacation world by getting caught in the moment and not thinking several moves ahead. They are taking a minor risk with Freedom and her sisters. They are taking a greater risk (according to early polls and Carnival) with the Genesis class. I think in the long run people will be surprised at how perseptive they were of market forces and the Genesis ships will operate at significant capacities.

[Ocean Boy]

Considering Freedom's itinerary I don't put much credence in the argument that port ports will be opening up. She will be doing the same old Western route as many have before her. So Montego Bay is subbing for Ocho Rios. I'd rather go to Ocho myself.

 

As for more shops and tour operators, islands have a specific, and non changing, land mass. You can only fit so many shops, and people, into down town Grand Cayman and that isn't going to change. And Freedom showing up off shore is like having two of most other ships show up.

 

No, the cruise lines are not run by idiots. But the major lines of the past got into big contests of speed to be the fastest across the Atlantic. Aside from Cunard, which we all know is really Carnival, non of those lines exist anymore.

[JTJ]

I kinda hope one gets located at PC, sooner or later unless they retire the older ships the prices have got to go down. I can remember 7 dayers at $300pp and if these super ships have many more activites on board and inside room wouldn't be so bad. Tendering will be a problem, many pax will skip it, so they will have to have more port day ship board entertainment and food selections and not shut the ships down like they do now. Direct port berthing may be a problem too, example: the largest ship that can dock at Key West is the Glory and it has to berth at the outer mole where pax. have to be trollied in. Depending on that days trolley count it can take more time than tendering. BTW: KW is trying to deepen the channel to get a Voyager class in.

[Retired not Expired]

 

First, supply will always rise to meet demand. If the number of cruise passengers increase so will the number of shops, restaurants, and tour providers.

 

Second, supply will always rise to meet demand. New ports will open to accomodate the new ships and their passengers. Just think we may get to see something different out there.

 

I'm afraid you are right. Money talks and many new shops and restaurants will open building upwards and outwards to accommodate masses of people replacing many of the quaint ports. Many of us cruise for those quaint ports and the relaxation that goes with them.

 

So yes, these large ships may well cause something different for us out there.

[brn2crz]

I don't think bigger is going to be the issue...

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1550

 

According to this...28 new ships on the Seas by 2009....Hopefully,some will be retired:confused:

[Straughn]

hope RCI doesn't focus totally on the larger ships. We really like the Vision and Radiance classes much more so than the Voyager class ships. I doubt we'll ever cruise on the Freedom, let alone on a Genesis class - just seems to big for me. Don't like the extra crowds, tendering more often, etc.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

We won't even cruise on the Voyager class. Just too darn big.

[surfklutz]

These big ships just horrify me. They are fantastic, but who wants to spend 7 fulls days in a mall? An amusement park? There is something very interesting about people watching on a ship - but it is most interesting when you see people more than once in a trip.

 

And don't count too much on the lines to have a strategy about tendering, disembarkation, etc. So much depends on local situations and vendors. Ports are overcrowded as is, local authorities really don't get a rat's butt if you need to get people off in a hurry.

 

And think of how these big ships will be limited in the places they can actually go. No Thanks!

[surfklutz]

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060316/BUSINESS/603160321/1003

 

Another interesting article from the Miami Beach cruise industry trade show.

 

I like this exchange:

 

"Royal Caribbean President Adam Goldstein said his company is focusing on bringing the super-large Freedom of the Seas vessel into service, while planning for the arrival of the even-larger Genesis in several years.

 

That prompted Carnival President Robert Dickinson to suggest Carnival is not as interested in pushing the envelope of ship size as much as Royal Carribean, which he said is "having an arm's race with itself."

 

I wonder if these guys go out and bend elbos together in the afternoon

 

I know for a fact that they are friends - as are most cruise executives. They just play the part of fierce competitors. And Dickenson will take any opportunity to upstage anyone else at any function he can get quality face time at.

[MargaritaPlease]

My take... It's just one more step in the dumbing down of cruising. It used to be that only the "Elite" cruised. Ships were prized for their design and character. As cruising more and more targets the masses, we'll see bigger ships in place of unique ones, on-board blue jean friendly chain restaurants in place of fine dining, on-board shopping malls in lieu of exotic port experiences, chair hogs instead of gentlemen...

[JTJ]

Surf, your probably right, with only two big corporations in the business I'm sure they have exec's "jumping ship" back and forth all the time. So they know each other and each others corp. well. Especially when the industry lines up against something.

[denred04]

why would I want to go on a ship with a huge mall, when i live near two, and don't particularly like to go to them? are you serious about a ship having an amusement park...that is just way over the line!! I'm sure that these mega ships will appeal to alot of people (or they wouldn't be built), but not for me! way too many people for a relaxing vacation!

Denise

[Schplinky]

My take... It's just one more step in the dumbing down of cruising. It used to be that only the "Elite" cruised. Ships were prized for their design and character. As cruising more and more targets the masses, we'll see bigger ships in place of unique ones, on-board blue jean friendly chain restaurants in place of fine dining, on-board shopping malls in lieu of exotic port experiences, chair hogs instead of gentlemen...

 

I daresay that if the cruise industry hadn't gone mass market (or dumbed down, as you chose to put it), many people on cruise critic would not be able to afford to cruise. For those who want "superior" service and all that, there are lines that will happily take you increased fare and treat you that way. One caveat: we recently travelled on a "premium" line that styles itself as being more refined than its peers and we found the manners of the crowd to be more or less the same, only the clothing was different. At the low prices (relative to more premium lines) that RCL charges, I don't think the crowd it attracts would be considered the elite.