Will NEVER use HAL again!!

[Copper10-8]

I've been on 12 cruises on six cruise lines in 13 years... Undoubtedly not as many as you, but definitely not "one of the least experienced here" either!

 

I don't claim to be an expert or to be the most experienced person out there. Sometimes people think I am, which is flattering, but as I tell them, there are a lot of people who know a lot more than I do.

 

I do think I've been on enough cruises to have an informed opinion, though.

 

Doug, with the exception of probably Stephen Card (whom I haven't met), you are without a doubt the most knowledgeable cruising, cruise ship and cruise history person I have ever met. You most definitely have earned the right to have your informed opionion heard on this topic! Keep up the good work!;)

[dougnewmanatsea]

I have to be honest and tell you that I don't fit the standard mold of a cruiser. I just love to cruise.

I think that pretty much is the standard mold of a cruiser ;) !

 

But in all seriousness, most cruisers are a lot closer to your mold than mine. I am, if I can use a hopelessly overused adjective, passionate about sea travel. I live and breathe this stuff. Of course, people are passionate about all sorts of things... Automobiles or opera or baseball or pottery or, well, just about anything. For me (and some other people) it's this.

 

I rarely find anything really wrong that I would need Customer Service.

Ironically, I've never actually found anything wrong during a cruise that has required the cruise line's attention. Before or after... That's a different story.

 

It's interesting that on our cruise on the Millennium in 2003 I sat for some time with the CD and he told me that RCI did not "buy" Celebrity ... he told me it was a merger.

Well, in some cases there is real controversy over this - for example, I think there's still a court battle going on about whether DiamlerChrysler was the result of a merger, or of a takeover of Chrysler by Diamler-Benz. In the RCCL/Celebrity case, I honestly don't see how there could be any confusion - it was a takeover, pure and simple. I can't imagine why the CD would lie to you about this, so my guess is he was just misinformed.

 

I love the design of the M class ships.

I've never been aboard one (haven't stepped foot aboard a Celebrity ship since 1995) but they do look beautiful. The one thing I can never figure out (and this goes for the CENTURY-class ships too) is why they were designed without a wrap-around promenade deck. This is a big omission IMHO.

 

Anyhow, these ships' designers are no longer with RCCL. Whatever SOLSTICE turns out like, my guess is that she'll much more closely resemble an RCCL ship than one of the existing Celebrity vessels. Who knows -maybe I'll be surprised. But she is entirely in the hands of RCCL's own people, whereas the MILLENNIUM-class ships, even though they were designed and built post-takeover, were designed by Celebrity's naval architects (who stayed on for a while after the takeover).

 

the other was so-so because I don't like the Vista ships.

I think the Vistas are nice enough ships... Nothing special, but nice enough.

 

What is really irritating about them is not so much what they are, but that they fall behind the R-class ships in so many ways. The cabins, the open deck space, the dining room, the main lounge, so on and so forth. I really like the R-class ships. The Vistas, I don't dislike, but I'm not really fond of them either.

 

I have to admit I've heard so many wonderful things about NOORDAM that I really would like to try her, just to see how different she is than ZUIDERDAM. Who knows, maybe the next time I sail in a Vista, the ship will win me over... Or maybe not. I won't go out of my way to avoid them, but I won't go out of my way to choose them, either.

 

Doug, with the exception of probably Stephen Card (whom I haven't met), you are without a doubt the most knowledgeable cruising, cruise ship and cruise history person I have ever met.

Thanks! I'm very flattered. I guess I must give the impression of knowing more than I do ;) !

 

As I said before, I know a lot of people who know a lot more than I do... Though I don't think you know many of them.

 

I do know you met Ted Scull briefly, and like Stephen, he's in a different league than I am. They really know what they're talking about! I just learn from them :) .

[Jana]

Greg and Doug, thanks so much for telling me that the Sigs will be Vista platforms. Maybe they'll be fully-fledged Spirit-class and adopt the stateroom configuration that both CCL and Costa use, which are much nicer than the standards I've seen on the Vistas so far. I know that HAL stalwarts won't like the squishiness of the interior promenades, but it was one of the things that I liked, and I know why it was built that way.

 

Greg, obviously I devoured every word you wrote about Noordam, and looked at every pic you sent too. I must say that from the photos, the ship's interior looks much gloomier than some of the other Vista-class ships. I've only been on Oosterdam -for lunch, not a sailing- and I liked all the blues in her interior.

 

Doug, yes I got your d*mn e-mail about GTS, thanks so much, it gave me hives.

 

Heather, I think you're right about the stateroom, but I'll adapt. I realize that I tend to be more critical than many others -an occupational necessity- but I am more forgiving than many others too. Still, it's odd that HAL has had, and in fact innovated, some of the best connectivity options at sea but their designers have failed to recognize that these days, travelers come with STUFF. I mean, Ipod dockers, battery rechargers, video cameras, cell phone plugs, laptops, PDAs, etc. etc. etc. and the desk areas in the Vista standard staterooms seem to be afterthoughts. In the ones that still have CRT TVs sitting atop the desk, the space that's left is miniscule. I don't get it, especially since there is no console or shelving above the desk to store this "stuff" that everyone travels with these days.

 

I agree with everyone else who claims that unless there's some major, MAJOR problem, the cruise is what's important. I do know people who revel in their misery, who look for anything and everything to make themselves miserable. Not me. Never had a bad cruise, although I was on a three-nighter once that I wished would end sooner, so it was obviously not my favorite :)

 

I will be boarding Noordam in just a few hours, and along with the bread pudding (I like it more for the warm vanilla sauce than for the carbs), I have lately been dreaming of canned FIGS! CANNED FIGS! Who in the world would choose a cruise because they offer canned figs at breakfast? But I am tasting them in my Holland America dreams!

 

I'll try to post from the ship.

 

Jana

[HeatherInFlorida]

Doug, I am passionate about the sea ... not the vessel I'm on or the food or the service. I guess that was what I was trying to say. I just want to be on the ocean. When I'm standing on the deck, leaning on the rail, the ship becomes secondary to that moment.

 

In the good 'ole days, I used to be able to walk to the bow (still can on the Maasdam ... at least the last time I sailed her) and I would stand there for the longest time just feeling the sea, the wind and the sky.

 

So it's really the sea I love and whatever can get me on it :).

 

Jana, can't wait to hear all about your Noordam cruise ... hope we hear from you onboard! Bon Voyage!

[pmenefee]

I feel really stupid reading the discussion about the different class ships, the vista, the spirit, the M class, etc. Is there a thread or a web site where I could educate myself on the different ship classes? Thanks.

Pete

[RevNeal]

Jana,

 

Have a fantastic voyage! I think you'll find that the interior public rooms are not at all "gloomy" but, rather, typified by understated elegance, comfort, and grace. They're not glitzy, harsh, garish, neon, or "funky." There are elements of panache -- particularly in a few of the furniture pieces -- however, for the most part the ship is simply comfortable. The feel you get, walking around the public decks, is that you are very much on an ocean going vessel and not in a resort.

 

Have a BLAST aboard her!

[dakrewser]

I feel really stupid reading the discussion about the different class ships, the vista, the spirit, the M class, etc. Is there a thread or a web site where I could educate myself on the different ship classes? Thanks.

Pete

 

Go to the Cruise Critic home page and, towards the bottom, you'll see a section called "find a review" with two drop-down menus. Choose a cruise line (but not a ship) and a new page will come up. Scroll down to the section called "the fleet" which will explain the different classes of ships within the cruise lines.

[Katz A Prowl]

It's a mistake on both sides, but HAL probably loses 100 customers a day to old age and death. It's a big world and HAL is a big company with more wealthy people added each day that would like to sail with them. Injustice makes you want to fight, but reality dictates chalk it up as lesson learned and move on.

Mark....

 

wealthy? It seems someone was not wealth enough in $$ or character to buy their own booze. With all this wealth one would hope HAL would look into any theft.

 

I do agree that putting it out with your bags was a mistake on your part, not HAL's

[dougnewmanatsea]

Maybe they'll be fully-fledged Spirit-class and adopt the stateroom configuration that both CCL and Costa use

I doubt it. Different designers.

 

QUEEN VICTORIA will be a sort of hybrid between the Vista and SPIRIT-class designs (with a little Princess influence for good measure, and decor that's a sort of Princess imitation of QM2 which is in turn an imitation of about fifty different things). As far as I can tell her standard cabins will be pretty much the same in layout as the Vistas, though from the renderings I've seen it does look like they'll at least be more attractively decorated. (Our cabin in ZUIDERDAM was decorated with all the style and elegance of a Hampton Inn...)

 

from the photos, the ship's interior looks much gloomier than some of the other Vista-class ships.

I think they look really nice... Though sometimes it is hard to tell from photos.

 

Certainly ZUIDERDAM is by far the "brightest" of the Vistas, or any of the HAL ships for that matter. Personally I rather liked her decor... For more than a week or two I guess all those bright colors might be a bit wearing but then she wasn't designed for and isn't used for long cruises so that's rather a moot point. And even she has some relatively understated spaces. I do hope they don't get rid of the Windstar Cafe, not because I'd ever buy the coffee and cookies or whatever they sell there, but just because it was such a beautiful space... The most wonderful shade of blue.

 

Doug, yes I got your d*mn e-mail about GTS, thanks so much, it gave me hives.

Now come on - the FRITZ HECKERT was an interesting ship ;) ! Though honestly I don't know why the East Germans chose gas turbines for her. In fact I don't know too much about her at all. Not many people are interested enough in East German cruise ships to write about them so it's not exactly as though there's a wealth of information out there.

 

Someday though, I ought to write a book about the political history of cruise ships (and ocean liners). A very interesting topic, I think, and a rather overlooked one. Only LUSITANIA really ever seems to get much coverage from a political standpoint, and that doesn't have so much to do with ocean liners as U-Boats. Everyone remembers the politics of her sinking, but not her construction (which really had to do with war too - both trade war and even actual war). So many of the big political characters in the 20th century had a lot to do with passenger ships - Curchill, Hitler, Mussolini, De Gaulle...

 

their designers have failed to recognize that these days, travelers come with STUFF.

I think it's the same with most hotels and cruise ships, really.

 

As a "hotel person" I'm sure you are all too familiar with hotel designers' apparent reluctance to install comfortable chairs. I still would like to give a slap in the face to whoever chose the furniture for my room at the Copenhagen Marriott, which was some of the most uncomfortable seating I've ever encountered...

 

Sometimes I wonder if the people who design hotel rooms and cruise ship cabins actually ever stay in hotels or sail in cruise ships!

 

Never had a bad cruise, although I was on a three-nighter once that I wished would end sooner

What a coincidence... The one cruise I really didn't enjoy was a three-nighter! Aside from just being aboard ship, it really had nothing going for it. It wasn't bad, but if it was better than being on land, it was only marginally so...

 

As time goes on I'm sure I'm bound to hit upon more duds every once in a while but in the end cruising is still pretty enjoyable... If it weren't, i wouldn't keep doing it :) !

 

Have fun aboard NOORDAM! I expect you must already have boarded and will soon be sailing away... Bon voyage!

 

Doug, I am passionate about the sea ... not the vessel I'm on or the food or the service.

Fair enough! I like the sea, too, but in the end it's all about the ship for me.

Food, service, etc... Well, if they're good, I'm happy. They don't have to be extraordinary. Extraordinary is nice, but not necessary.

 

In the good 'ole days, I used to be able to walk to the bow (still can on the Maasdam ... at least the last time I sailed her)

I think the bow is accessible aboard all the R- and S-class ships. (Not the Vistas, though, from what I recall.)

 

In the case of the R-class you might get the impression from the fact that the space is "unfinished" that it's a crew area, but in fact it is open to passengers (confirmed by the fact that I've been seen up there by officers on numerous occasions and nobody's ever asked me to leave ;) ).

[aaerobear]

Doug,

 

I have always wondered why hotel/ship designers (interior types) always make the chairs uncomfortable. How many really comfortable chairs are there on any given ship. Not to darn many. The chairs in the bar/lounge areas seem to be designed to get you in and get you out as quickly as possible (and they ain't all that good looking either) What I wouldn't give for a nice lounge chair that I could sit in and read a good book and enjoy a cocktail (or two)

 

A few hotels are getting the hint and providing barcalounger type chairs in their rooms, what a great way to unwind after a rough day on the road.

 

HAL has a few of those wonderful lounge chairs in the CrowsNest that there seems to be a waiting line to use (next you will have to take a number and pay for them)

 

Ed

[pmenefee]

Ah, Jana there is nothing like a jar of home preserved figs at breakfast with ham, eggs, bisquits or any time with peanut butter. Old South.........and fig trees.

Pete

[Copper10-8]

Doug,

 

I have always wondered why hotel/ship designers (interior types) always make the chairs uncomfortable. How many really comfortable chairs are there on any given ship. Not to darn many. The chairs in the bar/lounge areas seem to be designed to get you in and get you out as quickly as possible (and they ain't all that good looking either) What I wouldn't give for a nice lounge chair that I could sit in and read a good book and enjoy a cocktail (or two)

 

A few hotels are getting the hint and providing barcalounger type chairs in their rooms, what a great way to unwind after a rough day on the road.

 

HAL has a few of those wonderful lounge chairs in the CrowsNest that there seems to be a waiting line to use (next you will have to take a number and pay for them)

 

Ed

 

Ed, be sure to try the chairs with the stereo systems in the new Explorations Cafe's on your next HAL cruise; they're pretty nice also!:)

[wingit]

Doug,

 

I have always wondered why hotel/ship designers (interior types) always make the chairs uncomfortable. How many really comfortable chairs are there on any given ship. Not to darn many. The chairs in the bar/lounge areas seem to be designed to get you in and get you out as quickly as possible (and they ain't all that good looking either) What I wouldn't give for a nice lounge chair that I could sit in and read a good book and enjoy a cocktail (or two)

 

A few hotels are getting the hint and providing barcalounger type chairs in their rooms, what a great way to unwind after a rough day on the road.

 

HAL has a few of those wonderful lounge chairs in the CrowsNest that there seems to be a waiting line to use (next you will have to take a number and pay for them)

 

Ed

Ed, This is something I noticed also. I found it kind of difficult to find a nice, comfortable chair around the ship. The Neptune chairs and sofas seemed specially designed to discourage one from lingering.

[lougee1043]

without reading 260 previous posts i was wondering has the orig poster responded to the the posts------------or was this post and the one complaining about free stuff on the ship his only 2

[Cruiseoften]

without reading 260 previous posts i was wondering has the orig poster responded to the the posts------------or was this post and the one complaining about free stuff on the ship his only 2

 

Talk about "Off Topic' posts!!!! This thread must be close to topping the list!

 

I don't believe the Original Poster has come back - perhaps she/he realized it was not a valid complaint - sympathy was certainly lacking.

 

That it generated 260+ replies says much about the posters........:(

[RevNeal]

That it generated 260+ replies says much about the posters........

 

But a good 200 of those "replies" are not "replies" to the OP but, rather, Off Topic conversation on subjects. :) So .... yes, it does tell us about the posters (like you and me). It tells us that we like to post and don't care the topic of the original thread.

 

LET THREAD DRIFT REIGN!

[wingit]

Talk about "Off Topic' posts!!!! This thread must be close to topping the list!

 

I don't believe the Original Poster has come back - perhaps she/he realized it was not a valid complaint - sympathy was certainly lacking.

 

That it generated 260+ replies says much about the posters........:(

What do the 260+ replies say to you about the posters?

[HeatherInFlorida]

If you followed along on this thread, you would know that we sort of took a "vote" and decided that since the OP had not returned, the thread was fair game and we sort of turned it into an "open" topic:D . In fact I think it was Host Doug who confirmed that!

 

Why not? Actually, it's been a great thread. I love these kind of threads ... just shows how a thread can unravel once it's been cut;) !

[RuthC]

...HAL has a few of those wonderful lounge chairs in the CrowsNest that there seems to be a waiting line to use (next you will have to take a number and pay for them)

Yes, they do:) . Yes, there is:( . And don't give 'em any ideas:eek: !

[dougnewmanatsea]

I have always wondered why hotel/ship designers (interior types) always make the chairs uncomfortable.

Surely this is a question which has come to the mind of most anyone who travels reasonably frequently.

 

After a long day travelling there is nothing one wants to do so much as kick off one's shoes and sink into a nice, comfy chair. Unfortunately, this is often quite impossible!

 

I have to give HAL credit though for the leather sofas in the cabins on the R-class ships, which are pretty comfortable.

 

But most hotels and ships... Loads of uncomfortable chairs! Though hotels have begun to improve in the past few years.

 

HAL has a few of those wonderful lounge chairs in the CrowsNest

I find that those look very comfortable but in fact sitting in them is an oddly uncomfortable experience, for me anyway.

 

There are some big winged lounge chairs in QE2's Queens Room (my very favorite shipboard space) that I think are quite comfortable but I know several people who can't stand them! So a lot of it comes down to taste and body type, too - but I think a well-designed chair should feel comfortable to most normal-sized adults...

 

be sure to try the chairs with the stereo systems in the new Explorations Cafe's on your next HAL cruise; they're pretty nice also!

Those are Eames Lounge Chairs and Ottomans, among the most famous (if not the most famous) furniture designs ever. They are included in the permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art. Coincidentally, the design turns 50 this year. More here from the manufacturer, Herman Miller, and here from MoMA.

 

Aside from being comfortable, they are gorgeous!

 

In fact I think it was Host Doug who confirmed that!

I don't think I ever gave "official permission", but my participation in the off-topic banter can be an indication that I approve ;) .

 

Undoubtedly in "real conversation" we often start out on one topic and wind up with something different - I see nothing wrong with the same thing here (assuming of course that the topic isn't offensive or anything like that).

[NeverCruiseHAL]

A cruise is more than comfy chairs

[DesertDiva]

You're absolutely correct! It's the "chocolate" that appears on your pillow each evening - just ask Ruth!

 

A cruise is more than comfy chairs

[HeatherInFlorida]

...............I don't think I ever gave "official permission", but my participation in the off-topic banter can be an indication that I approve ;) .

 

Undoubtedly in "real conversation" we often start out on one topic and wind up with something different - I see nothing wrong with the same thing here (assuming of course that the topic isn't offensive or anything like that).

 

Absolutely, Doug, just like a conversation. That's what I think is so great about it ... in fact about so many of these thread. They take on a life of their own sometimes.

 

I did know there was nothing official in your approval. I was actually just using your name to make it look official;)

[dakrewser]

A cruise is more than comfy chairs

 

Saw your posting before you heavily edited it. Why did you wait until today to a) join CC and b) post about a New Year's cruise???

 

Or have you used other screen names in the past??

[Copper10-8]

A cruise is more than comfy chairs

 

Absolutely! Don't forget comfy beds and mattresses and they're simply mahvelous on HAL;)