In light of the terrible tragedy...

[drfun48]

I started thinking about excursions and taxi rides I've taken on islands and in foreign countries.Many were hair raising to say the least, and if taken at home would have been cause for alarm.But on vacation ,perhaps being more relaxed or adventuresome ,I considered it all part of the "vacation experience"

Now in light of the terrible tragedy,I recall many a harrowing ride along a narrow ,unguardrailed road in St. John and St. Thomas and countless other cab rides crossing the midline around dangerous curves. I also recall a ferry ride in a storm from Playa del Carma to Couzamel whem the ferry almost sank and the 30 minute trip took two horrible hours.

I know that I am shaken by today's event and will no doubt do these same kinds of things again,but I wonder how safe they really are and how wise it is to take them.

[lvs2crooz]

I was also thinking about casual disregard for safety. I was persuaded to ride a moped with family members on our own (not cruise ship affiliated) and the mirror on my moped was broken and dangling. We had to go through turn abouts etc. I was scared the whole time, felt it was dangerous, but did it anyway to prove I wasn't a wimp. This accident has really shaken me up. I'll never do anything like that again. I will be sure to check all of the details first, and take cruise ship affiliated tours only from now on. Life is too precious, and thank God nothing happened to any of us. We were very lucky. Mary

[usha]

I know exactly what you're talking about! DH & I came so close to being in a head-on collision with a large truck in St. Thomas last month when our van driver was passing another vehicle on a narrow,mountainous curve. :eek: Almost makes me want to stay on the ship from now on!

 

My heart goes out to the families of the Millennium cruisers who just died in that terrible crash. I'm so sorry for their loss.

[Desertbelle]

Can't say that I fancy living a life that is "safe". There are a lot of dangers out there.....I still fly in airplanes, even after one crashes.....I still go into tall buildings, even after terrorists have hit them with airplanes....I still get in my car and drive 80 mph on the freeway, even though I see crashes on occasion.

 

I"ll take normal precautions...seatbelts, sunscreen, look both ways before crossing the street, etc., but I plan on living out the last years of my life drinking in the wonders of the world. If I die while cruising, I just want you all to know, I died doing what I loved!

[dspencer]

I agree with you.

We have to live our lives.

I wonder how many bus drivers will be asked to show down now? not a bad idea perhaps.

I lost my little brother (22) to a road accident.

Its always a wake up call. we are mortal but we are still living its almost a duty to do that as fully as we are able.

I am horrified for the loss these people have suffered. My prayers are with them and their families.

[drfun48]

Can't say that I fancy living a life that is "safe". There are a lot of dangers out there.....I still fly in airplanes, even after one crashes.....I still go into tall buildings, even after terrorists have hit them with airplanes....I still get in my car and drive 80 mph on the freeway, even though I see crashes on occasion.

 

I"ll take normal precautions...seatbelts, sunscreen, look both ways before crossing the street, etc., but I plan on living out the last years of my life drinking in the wonders of the world. If I die while cruising, I just want you all to know, I died doing what I loved!

My point was not that we become paranoid,but just exercise the same caution we do at home. On vacation we tend to be more carefree perhaps to the point of being reckless. I know many of my cab rides in the islands were more harrowing than anything in New York City and that says a ton.

I hope to survive each vacation so that I can enjoy another.

[amyr]

Dr. Fun - I know exactly what you mean. My Mom and I took a tour to Machu Picchu off the Pacific Princess in 2004, there were over a hundred of us. We split into two groups, and sat down to wait in the Lima airport as Cusco was fogged in as it often is. After about two hours, the flights began departing, including the other half of our group. We continued to sit for a couple of hours, no explanation whatsoever. I commented to my Mom that the airplane was broken (I've learned a few things in my 17 year airline career) and the woman on the other side of me poo-poo'd me, and tried to explain about ATC back ups in bad weather. True, of course, for a large airport, but not true for Cusco, which receives only a handful of flights a day. I didn't argue with her.

 

We were finally bussed out to an ancient baby 727, the model that was discontinued as they began production of the familiar 727-200 that we all enjoyed for decades. It was in terrible shape, and I was white knuckled all the way. The man next to me tried to explain that this was the best type of aircraft for mountain flying (it's not the best type of airplane for any type of flying) and that these pilots were the best. I didn't argue with him. All I kept thinking as we flew through the Andes was "there's no TECAS (to sense terrain) on this airplane and the clouds are awfully low." We made it, and the airline was shut down by the Peruvian government for safety violations two weeks later.

 

My point is, I guess it's best to be oblivious. All my fellow passengers kept talking about was how fabulous it was that they gave out a grab bag with some freaky cookie and a banana in it and the beer was free off the beverage cart. American airlines could learn a thing or two, they said.

 

I'm not even going to get into that wild road up to Machu Picchu with all the switchbacks. I've you've ever been, you know what I mean. Oddly, I felt much safer on that than I did on Nuevo Continente. Ignorance is bliss:)

[katiebeth]

We are a family of four and love to travel and particularly love to cruise. In July 0f 2003 we were on the Constellation on the Northern Isles and British Fjords cruise. The itinerary was absolutely terrific. We would do it again in a heartbeat!

 

However, we did have two very "hair-raising" experiences with shore excursions. One was on a private tour from LeHavre into Paris where our tour driver drove well over 100 miles per hour into Paris. The van was not in the greatest shape and I was very concerned about the condition of the tires as well. We booked the tour through our American Express card and the tour company was a preferred vendor (Sacca Tours). However, I was extremely concerned for our safety particularly since we were traveling with our children who were 7 and 9 at the time.

 

The other harrowing experience was on a ship excursion in Geiranger, Norway. It was a scenic ride on a motor coach through the mountains around Geiranger. I really should have known better. We climbed to Mt. Dalsnibba on narrow, steep, winding roads with no guardrails. The last couple of miles of the climb to Mt. Dalsnibba was on a very narrow gravel road with extremely steep drop-offs. There was barely enough room for two motor coaches to pass each other. In fact, when we passed other motor coaches the side mirrors would scrap each other. I was a total and complete bundle of nerves and did not enjoy the excursion one bit. I was feeling terribly guilty about bringing the children on such a dangerous excursion (in my mind). I was rather shocked that Celebrity would sponser such a tour. I felt it was very risky.

 

Anyway, we are going to the Med. this summer on the Millennium and I have been rather cautious chosing our shore excursions. Our children are now 10 and 12 and I feel a deep responsibility to them to always have safety in mind. We are very much looking forward to our trip and know we will have a great time even if we miss out on some fabulous tours. As much as I would love to see the Amalfi coast, I think I will opt for Capri or Pompeii and Sorentto instead. I decided this based on my experience in Geiranger and not the latest accident. I know the Amalfi coast is not for the faint at heart. I know that there are risks all around us and we can't always prevent bad things from happening but I would like to minimize our exposure especially since we have our children to think about.

 

My prayers are with the victims and their families. It is so tragic. I am sure this was the trip of a lifetime for many. My prayers are also with the current passengers and crew of the Millennium. The mood must be very somber onboard. It truly is a heartbreaking situation.

 

Nancy

[Laurba99]

We are a family of four and love to travel and particularly love to cruise. In July 0f 2003 we were on the Constellation on the Northern Isles and British Fjords cruise. The itinerary was absolutely terrific. We would do it again in a heartbeat!

 

However, we did have two very "hair-raising" experiences with shore excursions. One was on a private tour from LeHavre into Paris where our tour driver drove well over 100 miles per hour into Paris. The van was not in the greatest shape and I was very concerned about the condition of the tires as well. We booked the tour through our American Express card and the tour company was a preferred vendor (Sacca Tours). However, I was extremely concerned for our safety particularly since we were traveling with our children who were 7 and 9 at the time.

 

The other harrowing experience was on a ship excursion in Geiranger, Norway. It was a scenic ride on a motor coach through the mountains around Geiranger. I really should have known better. We climbed to Mt. Dalsnibba on narrow, steep, winding roads with no guardrails. The last couple of miles of the climb to Mt. Dalsnibba was on a very narrow gravel road with extremely steep drop-offs. There was barely enough room for two motor coaches to pass each other. In fact, when we passed other motor coaches the side mirrors would scrap each other. I was a total and complete bundle of nerves and did not enjoy the excursion one bit. I was feeling terribly guilty about bringing the children on such a dangerous excursion (in my mind). I was rather shocked that Celebrity would sponser such a tour. I felt it was very risky.

 

Anyway, we are going to the Med. this summer on the Millennium and I have been rather cautious chosing our shore excursions. Our children are now 10 and 12 and I feel a deep responsibility to them to always have safety in mind. We are very much looking forward to our trip and know we will have a great time even if we miss out on some fabulous tours. As much as I would love to see the Amalfi coast, I think I will opt for Capri or Pompeii and Sorentto instead. I decided this based on my experience in Geiranger and not the latest accident. I know the Amalfi coast is not for the faint at heart. I know that there are risks all around us and we can't always prevent bad things from happening but I would like to minimize our exposure especially since we have our children to think about.

 

My prayers are with the victims and their families. It is so tragic. I am sure this was the trip of a lifetime for many. My prayers are also with the current passengers and crew of the Millennium. The mood must be very somber onboard. It truly is a heartbreaking situation.

 

Nancy

 

 

Nancy-this was so well-written. I am also a nervous wreck on those narrow roads and now I feel that my fear is warranted.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with the familes affected by this tradgedy.

[halos]

I have to admit that although I try to never allow fear to interrupt my life, this event has affected me. I'm hoping that by the time I take my cruise in Nov., time will have washed away some of this new found fear in me.

[C 2 C]

Disasters comes in threes..

 

1. The (Millennium) tour bus accident.

2. The BC ferry sinking with two lives lost

3. Fire on Star Princess claims at least one life.

 

Strange how these events can "slap us on the side of our heads" and remind us that having fun has a serious side. Cruising is as safe as just about any activity but we need to be reminded of the risks.

[pamkev]

It does make you think. It can all be gone in a second. A poster RodPat who was with on Connie with us said this has hit home. She lives in the communtiy where these people were from. She has lost some good friends and neighbors. Pam

[2ladies]

Bus accidents like these are not uncommon in Europe. Few and far between, but they happen. My Mum and I never go on any excusions on mountain roads. We were on the Connie in July and didn't do any of the excursions in the Fjords!!

 

But we are Londoners and are not deterred by terrorist acts - we go on London Transport without a qualm. Because that is our life. However, shore excursions are something we can do without quite happily if they involve risk. Life is a risk - but some risks I can do without - and mountain roads in the middle of nowhere qualify!!! In addition, we ONLY go on excursions organised by the ship.

 

It is a tragedy for all involved and our hearts go out to the friends and family of all those involved. Celebrity are handling it extremely well - lessons learned from the Smith incident, no doubt!!!

[fxcarden]

Just my two cents, folks. Taking private tours is generally no more dangerous than water skiing, parasailing, or any other activity you or I may engage in while on vacation. Unfortunately, accidents can and will happen. Apparently, the driver fell asleep at the wheel. If this is what happened, it could have happened to any driver, regardless of them being private or not. It could have a passenger driving a rental car, and taking his eyes off the road to look at scenery.

 

Several years ago, my friends stopped in Jamaica and decided to go horseback riding. The "guide" took them into a sugar cane field where he disappeared, and they were promptly mugged by a gang of thugs. Only my friend's resourcefulness and sense of direction got them out of the field, and onto the road where they were able to get help. Does that mean that horseback riding in Jamaica should not be offered ?.

 

I went on a day trip to Nevis, and took a tour of the island. The roads were horrible, and very dangerous. I made sure the taxi driver went extra slow, and told him several times that if it wasn't safe we would go back and he would get paid regardless. The point is, you need to be alert, too.

 

Being from NJ, I feel terrible about what happened, but I would take a private tour in a heartbeat pretty much anywhere. If the driver looks decent, and the car or minivan looks in good shape, I'm in. If not, I'm out....its that simple.

[dspencer]

The vacation attitude is a true point.

I used to live on a holiday island and remember my mum driving (with the windows up!) clearly talking to people walking on the sidewalk by the road..look where you are going..are you going to stop??! you can still get hit on Vacation!

 

I don't think we do but many people do go into a bit of a daze.

 

If he fell alsleep at the wheel had he been exceeding his driving hours? surely a good tour company would monitor that sort of thing?

The trouble with accidents like this is the what if's go on forever and haunt the poor realatives too. Human error is hard to cope with when it takes a life. :(

[2ladies]

ALL tours contain an element of risk - but like everything else in life, some things are safer than others. At least the Cruise Lines use properly licensed and insured contractors and the vehicles are properly maintained. (hopefully!!!).

 

The ship will also wait if you are late!!! I can never understand why passengers spend thousands of dollars on a cruise and then try to save a few dollars by using unknown drivers and companies!!! Whichever way you do it, you will only get a quick oversight of attractions - if you want to see anything in depth, you must go there and spend some time. Cruises are just quick stops!!!

 

Its just like when Americans visit London they say they love it because its so safe!!! We live in the hotel area - one of the best areas of London - and won't walk the streets at night - it is NOT safe!!!!

[kiefaber455]

First thing that hit me after reading about this trajedy was all the bus excursions on dangerous roads we had taken while in Italy, especially Sicily and how lucky we were that nothing had ever happened. You begin to wonder how some of those drivers are able to navigate such roads.

Then it hit me, we've been on far more dangerous roads in the Carribean. We've been on buses/taxis that probably would not pass inspection in the states, and with drivers who would give NYC cab drivers a run for their money in aggression.

[Desertbelle]

People are making a lot of assumptions about non-cruise affiliated excursions:

 

1. They are cheaper: Not necessarily so. Ship excursions are often times over-crowded and slow. They don't enforced restrictions, such as, when it says "some walking over rough terrain necessary", you will see people in wheelchairs and with walkers and canes signing up and the rest of the excursion has to wait on them to be helped into and out of vehicles, and while they take an extra long time to walk a short distance to see a site. Also, most excursions use large buses, which are even MORE cramped on those scary turns and cliff-side roads.

I prefer excursions that are small and more private, and with a driver who will take me where I want to go. I will pay extra for that.

 

2. The cruise company monitors or watches over the excursions they sell: This is a big, not necessarily so. I have taken ship tours that were NOTHING like what was promised. I’ve been on catamarans that were filthy, and in ill repair...bathrooms that would make you sick. Buses with torn seats, drivers who spoke no English, and various other problems. Once when I honestly filled out a comment card on an excursion, the guide yelled at me that they would lose their contract if I didn't say everything was good. I doubt that my comment card ever got read because the next time I was in Cabo, I saw the same sorry boat and crew taking on cruise guests.

As far as licensing goes, licensing doesn’t guarantee anything! Nearly every driver in the United States has a drivers license, but apparently that doesn't keep people from falling asleep at the wheel, drinking and driving, having a heart attack while driving, or being horrible drivers.

If you tell me that the cruise lines personally monitor every excursion driver, and personally checks out every vehicle, and that accidents like this couldn't happen to a ship-sponsored excursion, I will say "hogwash!" If this accident had happened to a ship-sponsored excursion, those people would still be as dead.

 

3. Whichever way you do it, you will only get a quick oversight of attractions: This is partially true, but the fact is that when I take private drivers I get to see a lot more and I get to see what I want to see. When we were in Rome last year we used a private driver and I never felt anything but safe with him, and we saw many more things than those people at our dinner table that took ship tours. Cruising does restrict time in ports, so this makes it even more important to me that I not have to wait around for slow-pokes, that I not waste time getting dropped off at some stupid local “factory” to buy junk and that I not see sites that don’t interest me.

 

I have only booked private excursions based on recommendations I have received here on Cruise Critic and/or from personal friends. Every tour I have booked on the recommendation of Cruise Critic members has been exactly as stated or better. I will continue to book private excursions when appropriate for my needs, and I will continue to use Cruise Critic as my premier source of cruise excursion information. I will use normal precautions, such as not getting into vehicles that look unsafe, or drive with drivers that look sleepy or drugged. I will insist that a driver drive slower when appropriate. I don’t wish to die, but I do wish to get the most out of my vacation time.