Is NCL back to adding the 10% VAT to all Free at Sea "purchases" while in Spanish waters?

[graphicguy]

46 minutes ago, European_CruiseGirl said:

Yes every receipt needs to show vat in Europe. However the price you see for example in a window of a store or restaurant menu includes the vat in the price. Only on the receipt it is separated. So if you ask in a store in EU how much something costs and someone says ”it’s 20€” or at a store see a sign that says something costs 20€ then 20€ is what you pay. Or if you go to a restaurant and the menu says your pasta dish is 15€ then 15€ is what you pay. The vat part is separated only in the receipt (yy item, zz vat = in total xx€ where xx is what you originally saw as the price ). You never ever see something advertised in EU with a vat free price and then suddenly have to pay on top the vat when you purchase it. That is illegal. In EU stores/restaurants/all places must advertise/tell up front what the total price (with vat) is. You never see one price advertised and then end up paying something that is higher. 

Similar…except on a cruise, there is the fare, port fees, etc.   But, some of the fees, taxes, etc. change depending on each country and port, which have different rules.

 

In this case, Spain has changed their VAT rules.  So if you booked before the rules changed in Spain on how they collect VAT, the changes may not be affected to your purchases.

 

To my knowledge, no one has been charged extra because of the VAT rule

changes.

 

So far, it is a moot point and a lot of hand wringing for no reason!

Edited June 12 by graphicguy

[astera]

10 hours ago, graphicguy said:

He made it a point that NCL was being up front with the VAT charges and their implementations in Spain, particularly.

 

I don't think Spain (in particular) is doing themselves any favors with this change in policy and helter skelter implementation.  And, it seems to be a "Spain issue" specifically.

 

Spain is probably adamant that whilst docked in Spain everyone (including a cruise ship) needs to adhere to Spanish laws. The captain should never be concerned about that - it's not his business to worry about these issues as he has way bigger things to handle. NCL should have dealt with this from the very start and there are NO excuses for not managing this properly, 100%, from day one.

 

7 hours ago, European_CruiseGirl said:

In EU you have to show the full price which includes tax. It’s clear and simple. If someone indeed did this to you in EU you were hoaxed.  

 

Very true. In the EU we don't get charged EXTRA like in the US. Everything has to be included in the price you see. If NCL shows you a price then they should honor that price in accordance with the law.

 

6 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I'm not sure about the laws in Spain, or the legality of any particular establishment, but the places I bought something, or the restaurants I ate/drank at, had a VAT shown on the receipt.  I bought jewelry, food, drink, and mementos....all those stores showed a VAT on the receipt.  They had a total, but the VAT was also clearly shown.  Not sure why that's illegal, but OK.  It's Spain.  I adhere to what they charged as I'm their guest.

 

Very similar to U.S., but we just call ours "sales tax"....

 

What do you believe is illegal? Stores/restaurants have been issuing you with receipts that NEVER add VAT to the price displayed in-store or on the menu. If your receipt simply shows VAT (as it should) then that is just for informational purposes and nothing else. NOTHING has been added to your bill on top of the prices you have seen displayed.

 

The US has a chaotic system whereby the price you see on the shelf is not the final price you pay upon checkout. Then they do all this sales/local/etc. tax voodoo magic and suddenly the price you saw no longer applies and you have to fork out more...

[graphicguy]

Not following the idea of VAT… particularly in Spain.  I can only report on my experiences.  

 

Was charged VAT on my purchases in Spain.  The VAT was shown on my receipts.  They were separate line items.  Don’t know Spain’s process in charging VAT, let alone the other European countries’ policies.

 

I can tell you my receipts showed the VAT as part of the price of whatever I purchased, whether from a land based store or on the ship while in Spanish waters…docked in Spain.  

 

I assume the land based stores operate within Spain’s laws, as do the cruise lines, whether they put the VAT as part of the fare or whether they break it out as a separate line item.

 

It makes no sense to break Spain’s VAT laws  by the stores in Spain  or the cruise lines who dock there.
 

To recover the VAT, I showed the taxes charged on my receipts for a refund when returning to the U.S.

 

So, if you buy something in Spain, and the VAT is not shown on the receipt or is included in the fare, the guests from the U.S. CAN NOT recover the  VAT at customs.  THAT I would not LIKE!!!!!

 

Bit those of you who live in Europe who pay the  VAT as part of the fare or as broken out as a separate line item, none of this matters.  You have to pay for it either way, and can’t recover it!

 

Don’t know how to add any more given I’m coming from the U. S. and can recover the VAT!

Edited June 13 by graphicguy

[KeithJenner]

There seems to be a lot of confusion here.

 

People seem to be talking about two different things. Firstly there is how prices are displayed before purchasing. In Europe you can’t do what is common in the US and display the pre tax price with the tax to be added. The price you see displayed must be the price you pay. There are exceptions where people are selling direct to business (who can reclaim the VAT) but in a shop you aren’t allowed to show the pre VAT price.

 

A standard receipt doesn’t have to show the VAT, and many don’t. However if the person shopping is going to want to claim back the VAT (ie they are purchasing for business, or are a tourist) then the shop must supply them on request a “VAT receipt” which has legal requirements (ie must show the sellers VAT number).

 

In places where these receipts are often required some retailers just give out VAT receipts as standard (or specifically ask whether one is required). Fuel stations are an example due to the number of people who are driving for business, most receipts will meet the VAT requirements).

 

If you are an American making a purchase in a tourist area then there is a very good chance that your receipt will show the VAT details as they know you may be claiming it back, but if I go into town and buy something then it is very unlikely that VAT will be mentioned anywhere in the transaction process, including the receipt.

 

To be clear, the way that NCL display their prices onboard, with the net price displayed and then the tax added at the till, would not be legal on land in Europe, regardless of what anyone’s receipt says. Even saying that tax will be added, and giving the rate, won’t cut it. You need to show the actual price of each item including VAT.

[graphicguy]

7 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

There seems to be a lot of confusion here.

 

People seem to be talking about two different things. Firstly there is how prices are displayed before purchasing. In Europe you can’t do what is common in the US and display the pre tax price with the tax to be added. The price you see displayed must be the price you pay. There are exceptions where people are selling direct to business (who can reclaim the VAT) but in a shop you aren’t allowed to show the pre VAT price.

 

A standard receipt doesn’t have to show the VAT, and many don’t. However if the person shopping is going to want to claim back the VAT (ie they are purchasing for business, or are a tourist) then the shop must supply them on request a “VAT receipt” which has legal requirements (ie must show the sellers VAT number).

 

In places where these receipts are often required some retailers just give out VAT receipts as standard (or specifically ask whether one is required). Fuel stations are an example due to the number of people who are driving for business, most receipts will meet the VAT requirements).

 

If you are an American making a purchase in a tourist area then there is a very good chance that your receipt will show the VAT details as they know you may be claiming it back, but if I go into town and buy something then it is very unlikely that VAT will be mentioned anywhere in the transaction process, including the receipt.

 

To be clear, the way that NCL display their prices onboard, with the net price displayed and then the tax added at the till, would not be legal on land in Europe, regardless of what anyone’s receipt says. Even saying that tax will be added, and giving the rate, won’t cut it. You need to show the actual price of each item including VAT.

Thanks.  That makes sense.

 

While I do not think anyone has yet to be charged the VAT on NCL cruises, I'm thinking they will show it on a receipt for drinks (and food) if they ever do.

 

As mentioned, the only time I saw the signs were on my Mediterranean cruise last Oct and only in Spanish waters.  They ended up not charging them and the Capt sent out a letter stating as much, along with a brief explanation that the charges were a result in a change in Spanish law in charging VAT.  

 

Spain apparently is getting a bit greedy.

 

But nonetheless, on one has been charged the VAT regardless of the signs.

[astera]

On 6/13/2024 at 2:10 AM, graphicguy said:

I can tell you my receipts showed the VAT as part of the price of whatever I purchased, whether from a land based store or on the ship while in Spanish waters…docked in Spain.

 

Correct, receipts will show VAT "as part of the price" and not something added on top of it. So if you see 9.99 displayed... then you will be charged 9.99 and not a penny more.

 

So the VAT is not an additional line item, but just an informational line that changes nothing from the consumer's perspective (it's already in the price, nothing added on afterwards). 

 

That's how it should be: precise and transparent. And it's the law within the EU to give consumers the real price instead of making funny adjustments upon checkout...

 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 7:08 AM, KeithJenner said:

the way that NCL display their prices onboard, with the net price displayed and then the tax added at the till, would not be legal on land in Europe, regardless of what anyone’s receipt says. Even saying that tax will be added, and giving the rate, won’t cut it. You need to show the actual price of each item including VAT.

 

Yes, every price displayed needs to be the final price. Will be on NCL next week so curious whether they've done their homework...

 

What is the real issue anyway: adding VAT to paid-for drinks or adding VAT... to "free-at-sea" drinks? 😯

[Travelling2Some]

We just got off the Viva the day before yesterday (Rome to Lisbon with multiple ports in Spain and France).  No extra taxes were charged on FAS drinks/meals in any ports.

[astera]

1 hour ago, Travelling2Some said:

We just got off the Viva the day before yesterday (Rome to Lisbon with multiple ports in Spain and France).  No extra taxes were charged on FAS drinks/meals in any ports.

 

Many thanks. I'm sailing from Barcelona next week so I assume that FAS means that my drinks will be free even before the ship sails out to the next port...

[Panhandle Couple]

5 minutes ago, astera said:

 

Many thanks. I'm sailing from Barcelona next week so I assume that FAS means that my drinks will be free even before the ship sails out to the next port...

We sailed from Barcelona 2 weeks ago, and through Palma and Ibiza.  The signs were in place for charging VAT to our drink orders.  We never were charged anything, and we get drinks everyday.

 

In discussion with a fellow cruiser, they asked why the price of the tax wasn't just included in the total cost?  I responded, how do you tax something that is unlimited?  Yes you could assume, say 9 drinks per person per day, but that short changes some and overcharge's others. 

Their response was...hmmm, good point.

 

Basically, check your account on the in room TV after the first night, that will let you know what is charged or not. 

[astera]

Good point, Seems strange to charge tax on something that you... get for free.

 

I'm sailing from Barcelona next week but I sure as heck will have a few drinks before the Escape escapes Barcelona...