Is this discrimination

[purplesea]

Just checked and have, copied and pasted wording,      from My P&O

 

 

In the unlikely event of the emergency, will you require assistance from crew on board? *

No

Yes

What level of assistance do you require in case of emergency evacuation? *

I require evacuation chair assistance and I’m under 128 kg (282 lbs).

I require evacuation chair assistance and I’m above 128 kg (282 lbs).

I require one-to-one assistance (for help on stairs or for hidden disability needs).

[zap99]

Got it wrong again

 

Edited June 13 by zap99

[david63]

2 hours ago, S1971 said:

Then a Weight Watchers club onboard for those who come close (chargeable of course).

Don't give them any more ideas!

[Cloudyrain]

Interestingly I have had it confirmed (at last) that children under 12 are to be carried by a parent. If they can't be carried by a parent then they need to be allocated an evac chair. But (and this will probably surprise no one) the online form isn't able to actually address this, and therefore we just need to fill the form in and say we need a chair (because we can't select that we don't need one, or qualify for one) and then we have to email separately with details so they can manually manage the request...

 

Well done P&O for spending thousands developing a new protocol that is so much less user-friendly than the system they replaced 🤯

[Cloudyrain]

11 hours ago, jockosjungle said:

Thanks for all the information everyone. I'll certainly be putting my views to P&O directly. We still haven't been informed that my Mum is persona non gratis on this cruise.

 

I can't really comment on how many evacuation chairs there are, but they've also rejected us for a North Europe cruise in October for the same reason. Last year my parents booked pretty late and there was no issue.

 

It would be interesting to see how many people are on board with mobility needs when we go to Norway as it does seem to be a way of limiting the numbers, maybe they got tired about the complaints that people in wheelchairs couldn't get on the lifts?

 

I will be making my views known to P&O, my parents certainly won't be booking another and a cruise from Southampton suited my parents state of health. 

Honestly I would recommend looking at Princess: I have found they are much better at dealing with accessibility and medical issues etc. I know the number of cruises is more limited from Southampton, but they really were great and once we factored everything in, it wasn't really any different in price for a more premium product (and a lot less stress!)

[Selbourne]

As the husband of someone who is very seriously disabled and would genuinely require assistance if the lifts were out of use, I despair at how silly this is all getting. Whether it’s all the political correctness these days, where anything and everything is classed as a ‘disability’ (nobody has a ‘condition’ any more), or just incompetence, I just don’t know but, either way, it’s very off putting.

[terrierjohn]

On 6/10/2024 at 1:06 PM, Selbourne said:

I’m very sorry to hear about your experience. 
 

With all the problems that people are currently experiencing, and the resultant bad PR that it can sometimes generate, It strikes me that there is a solution that P&O could adopt.

 

Anyone requiring an accessible cabin with P&O is unable to make a booking (either online direct or via a TA) without referral to P&O to specifically check whether one is available. Perhaps as part of the booking process, along with the “Do you require an accessible cabin?” question, there should also be some other questions, in particular “Do you or any of your party intend to bring a wheelchair”. If people answer ‘yes’ to any of these questions they should not be able to complete the booking but be referred to the same department who can then confirm if an evacuation chair is available, should one be required. If it is, and one can be allocated, the booking is confirmed. If it is required but one is not available then the booking cannot be made. 
 

This strikes me as a much better solution than allowing bookings to be made which are subsequently cancelled with all the resultant disappointment. I wonder what @molecrochip thinks about this suggestion? The current situation cannot continue. 

I suppose it depends on whether the number of evacuation chairs is limited. If not then filling in the form should enable P&O to arrange for one to be made available.  If they are limited then I agree it is essential that the request should form part of the booking process  whether it is with P&O or via a TA.

[Selbourne]

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I suppose it depends on whether the number of evacuation chairs is limited. If not then filling in the form should enable P&O to arrange for one to be made available.  If they are limited then I agree it is essential that the request should form part of the booking process  whether it is with P&O or via a TA.

As others have said, the limiting factor will more likely be the number of crew allocated to assist such passengers and that probably limits the number of chairs. 
 

My concern is that if these chairs (and associated crew) are allocated to those who, in reality, don’t need them (but have been allocated them under this new ‘belt and braces’ approach) then those who genuinely need assistance (such as our better halves) may not be able to make bookings. As often is the case, it’s the unintended consequences that cause the most issues. 

[Martinwpc63]

11 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

As others have said, the limiting factor will more likely be the number of crew allocated to assist such passengers and that probably limits the number of chairs. 
 

My concern is that if these chairs (and associated crew) are allocated to those who, in reality, don’t need them (but have been allocated them under this new ‘belt and braces’ approach) then those who genuinely need assistance (such as our better halves) may not be able to make bookings. As often is the case, it’s the unintended consequences that cause the most issues. 

This is how we feel as my wife can walk short distances and in an emergency I am fit enough to help her but we can only book P&O cruises that have an evac chair available. Yet we are going on a Royal Caribbean cruise in 2 weeks with the scooter and they had no mention of evac chairs even though I asked. So just to be sure I requested pier assistance so it is on our booking.

[S1971]

Is it all Carnival brands or just limited to P&O & Cunard,? it does seem to be a very strict policy.

[zap99]

3 hours ago, Selbourne said:

As others have said, the limiting factor will more likely be the number of crew allocated to assist such passengers and that probably limits the number of chairs. 
 

My concern is that if these chairs (and associated crew) are allocated to those who, in reality, don’t need them (but have been allocated them under this new ‘belt and braces’ approach) then those who genuinely need assistance (such as our better halves) may not be able to make bookings. As often is the case, it’s the unintended consequences that cause the most issues. 

TBH. In a serious emergency like Costa Concordia, I wonder if the crew will hang around dealing with evacuation chairs, or be into the lifeboats first?

[david63]

3 minutes ago, zap99 said:

TBH. In a serious emergency like Costa Concordia, I wonder if the crew will hang around dealing with evacuation chairs, or be into the lifeboats first?

Hopefully we will never find out - but one thing is for sure that when push comes to shove (and there will be a lot of that!) I would be very surprised if everything worked out as the "master plan".

[Selbourne]

14 minutes ago, zap99 said:

TBH. In a serious emergency like Costa Concordia, I wonder if the crew will hang around dealing with evacuation chairs, or be into the lifeboats first?

They take their responsibilities extremely seriously and I have no doubt that my wife would be taken care of, which is just as well as I’d be long gone 😂 

[zap99]

29 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

They take their responsibilities extremely seriously and I have no doubt that my wife would be taken care of, which is just as well as I’d be long gone 😂 

We know your only joking.😁

[happy v]

38 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

They take their responsibilities extremely seriously and I have no doubt that my wife would be taken care of, which is just as well as I’d be long gone 😂 

Made me spill my tea, but I agree with Zap

[9265359]

6 hours ago, Martinwpc63 said:

This is how we feel as my wife can walk short distances and in an emergency I am fit enough to help her but we can only book P&O cruises that have an evac chair available.

 

What would happen if you are incapacitated during the incident that requires the ship to be evacuated and an evac chair had not been booked and thus there was no way to evacuate your wife?

 

6 hours ago, Selbourne said:

My concern is that if these chairs (and associated crew) are allocated to those who, in reality, don’t need them (but have been allocated them under this new ‘belt and braces’ approach) then those who genuinely need assistance (such as our better halves) may not be able to make bookings.

 

Does the cruise line take the risk that someone could manage the stairs when the ship is sinking and take more bookings, but if they are wrong and they can't they leave them to drown?

 

Now in the past that might have been the basis that P&O were operating under, but now they seem to have decided to take a new low risk option.

 

It is hard to criticise that decision, the deserved criticism is of the poor handling of existing bookings made before they made that decision and the poor handling of new bookings. 

 

Personally I think that even with the new policy P&O are still massively underestimating the number of people who would need assistance if there was an emergency that required evacuation. 

[david63]

25 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

What would happen if you are incapacitated during the incident that requires the ship to be evacuated and an evac chair had not been booked and thus there was no way to evacuate your wife?

Of course that is a possibility but there is no way that P&O, or any other cruise line, can cater for every eventuality.

[9265359]

10 minutes ago, david63 said:

Of course that is a possibility but there is no way that P&O, or any other cruise line, can cater for every eventuality.

 

It isn't catering for every eventuality, it is assessing and minimising risk.

 

The situations when an evacuation are needed in reality are not likely to be of the 'have a wander down to the theatre at your leisure to have your cruise card scanned' embarkation check.

 

If P&O is seriously having to evacuate the many thousands of passengers and crew off into lifeboats then something really really bad has happened, and that really really bad thing will undoubtably have resulted in some who though they could provide assistance not being able to do so.

[LittleTinker]

On 5/13/2024 at 10:54 PM, Selbourne said:

 

As well as clamping down on people turning up at the terminal with an undeclared wheelchair, presumably as they have a need, it’s high time that P&O also clamped down on the abuse of the assisted embarkation and disembarkation by those who don’t genuinely need it. Folk who cope perfectly adequately walking around the ship and the ports throughout the entire cruise, but then claim that they need to be transported on or off the ship in a wheelchair when they perceive that there is some advantage to be gained by doing so. Even though we have a genuine need, we avoid assisted disembarkation now as it annoys me so much 

What makes you so sure its abuse?
Are you suggesting that only people in wheelchairs full time can possibly be disabled?

Id love to know what you would make of my situation.

You could watch me walk past you on the ship and Id seem normal, walking fine. 
You may not see me the times when Im not fine, clearly in pain and can only walk a few steps at a time before having to stop or sit down. But mostly I hide the pain well and take my time and walk as little as possible

At embarkation/disembarkation and getting on and off at ports, most of the cruise lines are very willing to help me avoid standing up for too long or walking more than I have to because avoiding those long walks off the ship help me to enjoy my time ON the ship without having to rely on a wheelchair full time.

Im sure I would be one of those people who you tut at and who annoys you so much.

I am registered disabled by the way.

[lancashire_cruisers]

4 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

What makes you so sure its abuse?
Are you suggesting that only people in wheelchairs full time can possibly be disabled?

Id love to know what you would make of my situation.

You could watch me walk past you on the ship and Id seem normal, walking fine. 
You may not see me the times when Im not fine, clearly in pain and can only walk a few steps at a time before having to stop or sit down. But mostly I hide the pain well and take my time and walk as little as possible

At embarkation/disembarkation and getting on and off at ports, most of the cruise lines are very willing to help me avoid standing up for too long or walking more than I have to because avoiding those long walks off the ship help me to enjoy my time ON the ship without having to rely on a wheelchair full time.

Im sure I would be one of those people who you tut at and who annoys you so much.

I am registered disabled by the way.

Not to speak for Selbourne but he is very aware of and sympathetic to hidden disabilities. I didn’t think there was such a thing as registered disabled any more?

[Megabear2]

22 minutes ago, lancashire_cruisers said:

Not to speak for Selbourne but he is very aware of and sympathetic to hidden disabilities. I didn’t think there was such a thing as registered disabled any more?

You are registered disabled under the Equality Act 2010.

 

https://www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010#:~:text=You're disabled under the,to do normal daily activities.

 

Sadly I find most have very little sympathy about hidden disabilities when it comes to lift use on ships. 

[lancashire_cruisers]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

You are registered disabled under the Equality Act 2010.

 

https://www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010#:~:text=You're disabled under the,to do normal daily activities.

 

Sadly I find most have very little sympathy about hidden disabilities when it comes to lift use on ships. 

I’m aware of the Equality Act and also have a disability but don’t consider that to be registered disabled - just semantics I suppose.

[S1971]

4 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

What makes you so sure its abuse?
Are you suggesting that only people in wheelchairs full time can possibly be disabled?

Id love to know what you would make of my situation.

You could watch me walk past you on the ship and Id seem normal, walking fine. 
You may not see me the times when Im not fine, clearly in pain and can only walk a few steps at a time before having to stop or sit down. But mostly I hide the pain well and take my time and walk as little as possible

At embarkation/disembarkation and getting on and off at ports, most of the cruise lines are very willing to help me avoid standing up for too long or walking more than I have to because avoiding those long walks off the ship help me to enjoy my time ON the ship without having to rely on a wheelchair full time.

Im sure I would be one of those people who you tut at and who annoys you so much.

I am registered disabled by the way.

 

There are clearly many people with hidden disabilities and I would agree it can be hard at times to identify those.

 

But, I agree with Selbourne, I've seen on so many occasions people who are happy to dance the night away one minute and next morning seen getting assistance on and off the ship, stick in hand and all that.

 

Similarly those at airports on the assisted trolley carts getting priority boarding etc, yet the day before I've seen them swimming, dancing, walking etc without a care in the world.

 

Believe me, you can tell who they are, especially those who get priority boarding on the plane home and are the first ones off unassisted on landing.

[Megabear2]

18 minutes ago, lancashire_cruisers said:

I’m aware of the Equality Act and also have a disability but don’t consider that to be registered disabled - just semantics I suppose.

There are so many things covered under the Act as it was all encompassing. Many people would say a disabled person constitutes those who have blue badge parking or are in receipt of disability benefit but of course there are so many other disabilities. The truth is probably that a large proportion of the population consider rightly or wrongly the disabled to be those who are in a wheelchair.  

 

The situation isn't helped by various schemes for people who have non visible disabilities such as the sunflower lanyard or the Did Card - the latter is only available to those registered for benefits or under medical supervision.  

 

4 minutes ago, S1971 said:

 

There are clearly many people with hidden disabilities and I would agree it can be hard at times to identify those.

 

But, I agree with Selbourne, I've seen on so many occasions people who are happy to dance the night away one minute and next morning seen getting assistance on and off the ship, stick in hand and all that.

 

Similarly those at airports on the assisted trolley carts getting priority boarding etc, yet the day before I've seen them swimming, dancing, walking etc without a care in the world.

 

Believe me, you can tell who they are, especially those who get priority boarding on the plane home and are the first ones off unassisted on landing.

You rather miss the point I'm afraid.  It's not for you or anyone else to "identify" anyone.  If you wish to believe they are fraudulent it is of course your personal opinion but it isn't for the public to judge individuals.

 

You would be in the group that watches my husband about his daily business and thinks it's wrong for him to require a lift as he swims, walks etc with little effort. He uses the lift because stairs are a serious hazard to his health and he is advised by his health professionals to avoid them unless essential. 

 

Ironically assistance on boarding and disembarkation doesn't even mean priority boarding.

 

 

[LittleTinker]

19 minutes ago, S1971 said:

 

Unfortunately, I don't feel I miss the point.

 

Many identify themselves to be fraudulent as they make it blatantly obvious.

 

I certainly don't deliberately people watch either, It again comes down to the blatantly obvious in my opinion.

 

Airports in particular that I've been too always priority board those with disabilities first on homeward journey's, it should be opposite when disembarking, countless times I've seen those prioritised one end can miraculously get off the plane the other end totally unaided and be the first waiting for the doors to open, and be the first to the baggage claim.

 

So Im not allowed to dance because you wont believe Im disabled?

The point I was making was I might ask for assistance sometimes because it saves my legs so i CAN dance later.
I can only do so much in a day.
I can stand in a queue for an hour and walk on and off the ship and then the rest of the evening Im in agony.
Or, I can ask for assistance to save my legs somewhat and then perhaps Ill have less pain in the evening, but not always. I may dance in agony. Is that ok by you?

But yeah.....well done for your bigoted response.