Has This Happened to You in Dining Room?

[skeezix]

Please don't judge someone's parenting choices unless you have walked in their shoes!!! You have NO idea what type of child they have and it is not your business to judge. I'm raising my granddaughter and had a friend who was much younger and had one low key low maitenance child and she had the gall to tell me I was doing the wrong thing and her way was better, needless to say we are not friends. when you have raised the same type of child then you may offer advice IF it is requested. You didn't have to watch the movie! Talk to your table mates then you wouldn't even notice.

[JWMom]

Please don't judge someone's parenting choices unless you have walked in their shoes!!! You have NO idea what type of child they have and it is not your business to judge. I'm raising my granddaughter and had a friend who was much younger and had one low key low maitenance child and she had the gall to tell me I was doing the wrong thing and her way was better, needless to say we are not friends. when you have raised the same type of child then you may offer advice IF it is requested. You didn't have to watch the movie! Talk to your table mates then you wouldn't even notice.

 

Don't think I offered any advice to these parents-just made an observation on this board....and you're judging me and you didn't walk in my shoes (or sail in my shoes!)

[pcur]

Boy, I'm on both sides of the fence with this one.

 

Not a cruise situation, but we took our sons on land vacations to Barbados twice. Younger DS was 3 and older was 8 on the first trip. It was a nice hotel with an open air dining room, but with nice soft lighting, linens, etc. A lot like a ship's dining room. Meals were included in our room rate, so that's where we had to eat.

 

So, we took small containers of Legos to the table every night. They sat and busily built everything under the sun all during dinner, displaying them next to their plates. Busy, busy, busy and QUIET. The staff just quietly moved the objects around as they cleared and served. It gave DH and I a quiet dinner, and did not disturb the other guests, but it was definitely unconventional, I agree. However, a 3 year-old in a 5 course dinner situation is a handful.

 

Now, time warp to the OP's situation. I can see the parents thinking the DVD player was a good way to keep her quiet. It also appears they responded to the noise problem after the first night, so their intentions were good. However, it would have driven me nuts, too!

 

So, my opinion is if the only way to keep her quiet and entertained was to infringe on other guests ability to enjoy their dinners, then it wasn't such a good solution. I don't think parents should put children in situations that over challenge them to behave, and late seating on a cruise is a bit much. So, the DVD may have been the only solution for her that late. I think a wiser option would have been to take early seating without the DVD player, but maybe they were with a family group that voted for late.

 

So, having been there (sort of) and done that, I think the only way to avoid the annoyance would have been to have the maitre d' TELL them it was disturbing a nearby diner and change her seating at the table. If they were against the wall, she should have been seated so her DVD player faced that way.

 

JM2CW

[Bribrittmom]

I don't see why some people worry what others are doing if it doesn't hurt them. So the girl was sitting and watching a movie quietly. It sure didn't hurt anyone else when she had headphones. I would much rather see a child sitting quietly watching a movie than some of the rude loud screaming children we saw on our Dec. Mariner cruise. I think the parents were trying to make sure the diners around them were not bothered by their child. I have a 14 and 16 year old and they still sometimes get restless at dinner on cruises. Not all children are as perfect as some people believe there's are. Even when taught manners and given experience with eating out some children are just more restless.

[newbie_sailor_88]

I disagree.

 

I certainly wouldn't bring a portable DVD player to a dinner, but expecting a 7-year old to sit calmly show manners for an almost 2 hour meal is a bit unrealistic. Yes, it can be done, but usually at a price. I had a grandmother who used to pinch, slap, etc to get kids to behave. 'By d*mned, they'll MIND me.' Mean and abusive was a better description, aka Joan Crawford-like.

 

JWMom, I wouldn't have liked being subjected to the DVD player either. I agree, coloring books would've been a better choice.

 

why would she have had to take a portable dvd player on a cruise anyway? i'm sure there were plently of things to do

[beachchick]

(Sticking my head into the lion's mouth here, I'm sure...)

 

I will admit that our DD is grown up, so DVD or other "entertainment" (other than coloring books for very young children) wasn't an option and thus not an issue. However, I would not have allowed it because our parenting involved teaching her as early as possible about what constitutes appropriate public behavior. Was she perfect? Of course not. She was a child; it was our place to teach her. If she acted up, there were consequences (and no I don't mean hard spankings, slapping, etc.). Rarely did we have to leave any public place because she knew that privileges would be revoked. She spent time around adults her whole life, and was taught early on what was okay and what was not.

 

I think though that my biggest concern is the repeated statements that a child that young "can't be expected to sit down for a 2 hour dinner." The answer is that for most children that is true; so why do parents insist on bringing a child to a formal, 2 hour dinner who is clearly not ready for it? And the late seating? That's just asking for "tired" trouble, IMO. If a child is not ready for the formal dining room, no problem. There are options and appropriate choices. It doesn't mean that people don't want children around. All it means is that many of us believe that children who are unable to sit through the dinner would be better served if their parents made other arrangements.

 

I also agree about dinner being family "talk" time. We never had the TV on during dinner (in fact, we had a separate kitchen/dining room with no TV at that time). (Okay, I will admit exceptions for things like the Olympics or truly important news events.) We did not answer the phone during dinner (unless DH knew a client would be calling). We did talk about our day, our plans, what would be fun to do, chores, school, etc. As a teen, our DD sometimes balked at this, but she knew what was expected of her. She also knew she could invite her friends to our house and that they would be greeted with warmth and welcomed. I usually made "extra" of whatever we were having for dinner because her friends loved staying over, and we loved having them with us. Our DD has excellent conversational and communication skills. She gets along with a wide range of types of people. She is a delight to spend time with. (Yep, I'm bragging, but I don't take all the credit as a parent; she's a wonderful person in her own right.)

 

beachchick

[margaritasalt]

Personally, I wouldn't have had a problem with a little girl watching a movie with headphones on during dinner. But I tend to be a "live and let live" sort of person.

 

I have one very well-behaved 8 year old that I've always been able to take everywhere. People gush over her manners and her maturity beyond her years. She would be FINE in a cruise situation.

 

I also have a special-needs autism-spectrum son who can't handle a simple meal at McDonalds without some sort of meltdown, as much as he loves going there. Public situations are very stressful for him. A 2-hour meal on a cruise would send him over the deep end AND be horrible for anyone who was dining at our table. It wouldn't be right for anyone concerned.

 

My solution? I am not going to take him cruising until he's MUCH older. And since I don't believe in doing for one what I can't do for the other, both of the kids stay home with grandma when we cruise.

 

And a personal pet-peeve ... I'm sick and tired of the stares I get when my son melts down. Just because a child is behaving badly doesn't mean he's "naughty" or that the parents in question are bad parents. I adore my child and have put some serious blood, sweat and tears into parenting him. I read some of the comments on here about children and my heart just sinks.

 

While there is no doubt that there are lousy parents out there, some of us really are just trying to do the best that we can. Really.

 

I'm off my soapbox now.

[Leejnd4]

And a personal pet-peeve ... I'm sick and tired of the stares I get when my son melts down. Just because a child is behaving badly doesn't mean he's "naughty" or that the parents in question are bad parents. I adore my child and have put some serious blood, sweat and tears into parenting him. I read some of the comments on here about children and my heart just sinks.

 

While there is no doubt that there are lousy parents out there, some of us really are just trying to do the best that we can. Really.

Thank you. As a parent of a special needs child myself, it's so nice to read someone else who realizes that things aren't always what they seem. My personal pet peeve is simply self-righteous, judgemental people who seem to seek out opportunities to look at askance at others so they can say to themselves, "Oooh, I'm just SO much better than them." Ick.

 

LeeAnne

[carlin]

I had the attention span of a turnip as a kid. I still do. I haven't even written this whole thing without going to another site more than once and coming back. Being restless did not mean I didn't know how to behave in public. Now I work with Developmentally Disabled adults. We won't take them places that we know they can't handle. Some of the looks and attitudes we encounter in public make me so mad.

I wonder how much this little girl watched her DVD's while on the rest of the cruise. May be a way for the parents not to worry about her and the wierd people out there and keep her entertained. Still doesn't make technology a good babysitter. Atleast crayons help express creativity.

[bottlebrush04]

I have to agree the with response regarding a child with special needs. My sister has an Autistic son and i'm sure if that was her family he would be there watching a DVD as well. I know they could go eat elsewhere but for the parents they are paying to eat in the dining room as well. Having a special needs child in our family has taught me to not judge other childrens behaviour when out in public. On the other hand if the child was quote unquote "normal". Well ???????

[beachchick]

Personally, I wouldn't have had a problem with a little girl watching a movie with headphones on during dinner. But I tend to be a "live and let live" sort of person.

 

I have one very well-behaved 8 year old that I've always been able to take everywhere. People gush over her manners and her maturity beyond her years. She would be FINE in a cruise situation.

 

I also have a special-needs autism-spectrum son who can't handle a simple meal at McDonalds without some sort of meltdown, as much as he loves going there. Public situations are very stressful for him. A 2-hour meal on a cruise would send him over the deep end AND be horrible for anyone who was dining at our table. It wouldn't be right for anyone concerned.

 

My solution? I am not going to take him cruising until he's MUCH older. And since I don't believe in doing for one what I can't do for the other, both of the kids stay home with grandma when we cruise.

 

And a personal pet-peeve ... I'm sick and tired of the stares I get when my son melts down. Just because a child is behaving badly doesn't mean he's "naughty" or that the parents in question are bad parents. I adore my child and have put some serious blood, sweat and tears into parenting him. I read some of the comments on here about children and my heart just sinks.

 

While there is no doubt that there are lousy parents out there, some of us really are just trying to do the best that we can. Really.

 

I'm off my soapbox now.

 

I just want to say that as far as I can tell, all children have tantrums (meltdowns, whatever). I would not look at you as a bad parent or your son as a bad child. These things happen, and with special needs children it is especially tough. For me, it's how the parent(s) handle it. I suspect that you are not a parent who just looks at her screaming, crying, upset child, shrugs, and then goes back to doing something else. I suspect that you are the type of parent who addresses the situation in terms that your son can understand and that you deal with the matter accordingly. It's the parents who ignore their children's tantrums and just allow it to go on and on and disturb other people for extended periods of time that are a problem (at least IMO).

 

You have a challenging enough job. I'm sorry you have to deal with people who look at you as if you are a bad parent because your child acts like, well, a child.

 

beachchick

[Schplinky]

Dining Room meals are barely an hour, maybe 90 minutes. I doubt any child cannot behave and eat for that long. The waiters are very solicitous and attentve to children. I'm guessing these same families have t.v. on at home during dinner.

[Casshew]

90 minutes would be awesome, but I have had many an imposible long meal 2 hours +++ and you don't want to be impolite and leave so you sit there. My DD usually falls asleep at late seating and I have even had the waiter offer to carry her back to the cabin for me a few times :)

[nordic30]

I have always thought that the late sitting should not be for young children. It is too long and too late for them. Like Portofino's, late sitting should have an age requirement. There are many options - eat early, eat upstairs where it is more casual and more space, or get a babysitter for the evening. Parents have to remember that although they are frequently immune to the disturbances of their children because they are around it all the time - the rest of the passengers are not and they are entitled to have a peaceful dinner.

[cruisin granny]

I have just read all the posts and am amazed that so many people seem to have chips on their shoulders where their kids are concerned. I feel nordic phrased it very correctly and that late seating is too late for a child..

A child should not be allowed to climb on a table. He should be removed from the dining. As onne of "the old fogies", I would rather see a parent remove a misbehaving child even if he is screaming than ignore misbehavior. I admire those of you who are "raising perfect children" because I certainly didn't.

[Andipanda1]

Last time I checked a 7 year old is in school....which means they must sit and behave themselves for longer than 2 hours at a time.....of course they are busy doing schoolwork etc... but then, are they not busy eating dinner ? Two hours would be long for a 3-4 yr old but 7 should be old enough to actually be part of the dinner conversation - at least we always tried to encourage our two kids to.

 

Thank you. A 7 year old is too old to need toys at the dinner table. In fact, we were specifically raised that there are is to be nothing at the dinner table except utensils, food, and family conversation. No TV; and certaintly, no toys. And to answer questions about children with special needs, my brother, who is severely autistic, was taught by my mom the same thing she taught us. He had to sit quietly at the table and eat, or he would have to go to his room. Keep in mind, this was during the 70s where people are much less aware about autism than they are now. It was ONLY way she could take us to eat anywhere outside of our house, and now, as an adult with special needs, Ken can hold his own in just about any dining situation--anywhere.

[Andipanda1]

I see this generation as having trouble down the road. Kids need to be entertained with multi-media ALL the time now - and what happens if they are in a situation where they actually have to entertain themselves. What happened to driving in a car and looking out the window - now kids are always glued to movies and TV. It will be interesting to see how these kids cope as adults.

 

 

The chickens are coming home to roost--a friend of mine who is an educator is now encountering kindergarteners who cannot do coloring, hold a pencil, or manage scissors because they all they have been exposed to is multimedia.

[Andipanda1]

Personally, I wouldn't have had a problem with a little girl watching a movie with headphones on during dinner. But I tend to be a "live and let live" sort of person.

 

I have one very well-behaved 8 year old that I've always been able to take everywhere. People gush over her manners and her maturity beyond her years. She would be FINE in a cruise situation.

 

I also have a special-needs autism-spectrum son who can't handle a simple meal at McDonalds without some sort of meltdown, as much as he loves going there. Public situations are very stressful for him. A 2-hour meal on a cruise would send him over the deep end AND be horrible for anyone who was dining at our table. It wouldn't be right for anyone concerned.

 

My solution? I am not going to take him cruising until he's MUCH older. And since I don't believe in doing for one what I can't do for the other, both of the kids stay home with grandma when we cruise.

 

And a personal pet-peeve ... I'm sick and tired of the stares I get when my son melts down. Just because a child is behaving badly doesn't mean he's "naughty" or that the parents in question are bad parents. I adore my child and have put some serious blood, sweat and tears into parenting him. I read some of the comments on here about children and my heart just sinks.

 

While there is no doubt that there are lousy parents out there, some of us really are just trying to do the best that we can. Really.

 

I'm off my soapbox now.

 

My hat is off to you, margarita. Bless you.

[Disneycruisers]

Thank you. A 7 year old is too old to need toys at the dinner table. In fact, we were specifically raised that there are is to be nothing at the dinner table except utensils, food, and family conversation. No TV; and certaintly, no toys. And to answer questions about children with special needs, my brother, who is severely autistic, was taught by my mom the same thing she taught us. He had to sit quietly at the table and eat, or he would have to go to his room. Keep in mind, this was during the 70s where people are much less aware about autism than they are now. It was ONLY way she could take us to eat anywhere outside of our house, and now, as an adult with special needs, Ken can hold his own in just about any dining situation--anywhere.

 

I respect your views about no tv, no toys, and only conversation at the family dinner table. However, have you taken your own 7-year old child on a cruise, sat down to dinner at 8:30, and have no disruptions from that child during the four-course meal? I respect your mother too, for raising an autistic child, but a 'one-size-fits-all' approach is not going to work for every family.

[Disneycruisers]

I forgot to mention, I still wouldn't take a DVD player, but I think crayons and paper are fine.

[Weez]

I think I would be a little upset if I had to listen to the DVD but if the child had headphones on then i could care less. In fact, if it kept them quiet and occupied I would encourage it. Same goes for any other activity to keep them occupied as long as it didn't disrupt my dining.

[Andipanda1]

I have always thought that the late sitting should not be for young children. It is too long and too late for them. Like Portofino's, late sitting should have an age requirement. There are many options - eat early, eat upstairs where it is more casual and more space, or get a babysitter for the evening. Parents have to remember that although they are frequently immune to the disturbances of their children because they are around it all the time - the rest of the passengers are not and they are entitled to have a peaceful dinner.

 

Depends on the child, family, and culture, too. On a recent cruise we took out of SJ, the majority of cruisers were from Puerto Rico and South American countries. Late sitting took place at 9:15 on this ship--too late for children, we thought, but you should have seen the kids who were dressed for dinner sitting quietly and eating with their parents. No toys, DVDs, etc., in sight. No climbing on the tables. It was amazing. I must also note, however, that there were no babies or toddlers in the dining room at that late hour, either.

 

It was still too late for US to eat dinner, though, we were nearly falling asleep in our plates!

[Andipanda1]

I respect your views about no tv, no toys, and only conversation at the family dinner table. However, have you taken your own 7-year old child on a cruise, sat down to dinner at 8:30, and have no disruptions from that child during the four-course meal? I respect your mother too, for raising an autistic child, but a 'one-size-fits-all' approach is not going to work for every family.

 

After my mother passed away (I was 15) I helped raise my siblings--four hyperactive boys, and my sister. So while I have not have children of my own, I can say that yes, I've taken children--including Ken--to dinner. And it wasn't easy. There were times we had to turn around and go home if my brother was having a rough day. I never had to take him on a cruise, that's true, but my mother did not expect Ken to sit through a four course meal when she was first trying to train him--and us--about eating and behavior in public. I would suspect that she wouldn't--and I wouldn't take a child to late seating to begin with. It's too much for them.

 

As for the no TV, toys, etc., my parents were grounded in the belief that whatever you practice at home becomes habit in public. Therefore, at dinner we took the time to discuss our day, to learn about silverware and table manners (my mom managed to sneak this in and make it fun), and to enjoy our food. And I'm grateful that they did teach us this, because, as I said, it gave us the groundwork in learning about etiquette, manners, gracious living, and public behavior...and it was fun, not stuffy, and I thank heavens that they gave us the tools that we have now.

 

I have had dinner with families of with children who, at the ages of 7 and 10 could not eat without a game boy, could not hold a conversation at the table, and could not handle eating utensils properly (I'm talking about holding a knife). My husband and I have been with teens, at public restaurants use their sleeves as a napkin, chew with their mouths open, and cannot eat without some sort of outside stimulus (TV, Electronics, and yes, even an IPod). And it just makes you wonder how these kids are going to function as adults in the real world. If you can't sit still at dinner, how are you going to function at a meeting? In school? In the board room?

 

I'm not saying that we should all strive to raise perfectly mannered automatons. But when you hand your child a DVD at the dinner table, what are you teaching them about life?

[Soxfan05]

Did you know that their is a day in September that is called "Eat with your family day"? Sad, isn't it?

 

This isn't all about bad parenting- and yes, I do agree there is alot of it!

 

I actually had a friend, who is a TEACHER tell me that "I would feel fulfilled when my kids went off to school and I could get a job!"

 

I was doing the "job" I wanted most to be successful at, being a MOM.

 

But that just sums up in one sentence the pervasive attitude of this country as a whole. We define ourselves by what we do and what we have rather than WHO we are.

[Casshew]

we were specifically raised that there are is to be nothing at the dinner table except utensils, food, and family conversation.

 

my brother, who is severely autistic, was taught by my mom the same thing she taught us. He had to sit quietly at the table and eat, or he would have to go to his room.

 

I don't understand your post.. are you having family conversation? or are you supposed to sit quietly and eat or else be sent to your room?