Did HAL Sell the Prinsendam?

[iceman93]

I heard a rumor on the Maasdam last week that I'd like to bounce off of all you cruise-info-a-holics. You'll either point out to me that this has been common knowledge for months or vehemently refute it.

 

A girl in the spa recently put in for and received a transfer to the Prinsendam for her next contract. She was quite excited since, as she put it, "EVERYONE wants to go on the Prinsendam!" But she was also a little distraught as she had been told that HAL has sold the Prinsendam (she didn't know to whom or when the sale would be effective) as it no longer fit it with the corporate vision for the cruise line.

 

Can anyone shed some light on this rumor?

[localady]

I surely hope it's a rumour, as just this morning we booked August 2007 cruise on her. :o

The Prinsendam is a quite loved ship, and perfect for cruisers who are willing to pay a bit more for a very wonderful small ship with top of the line crew.:D

I would be VERY disappointed if she was sold as would many others who have cruises through 2007 on her.:o

[JRachels]

I hope not too as I'm booked on the 8/30/06 16 day Jewels of the Adriatic cruise.

 

Here's some info I got on another forum on March 16, 2006.

 

Joyce

 

From Piet Sinke's Maritime Newsletter:

 

CARNIVAL Corp is rumoured to have offered the smallest ship in its

Holland America Line fleet and customer database of Swan Hellenic to

Saga, the British cruise, leisure and financial services group. Last

week the world's dominant cruise company said it would transfer the

30,277-gt Minerva II from destination-specialist Swan Hellenic to

Princess Cruises. The move comes as another Carnival subsidiary,

Holland America Line, has had difficulty finding a buyer for its

38,745-gt Prinsendam. A cruise industry source at the Seatrade Cruise

Convention in Miami told Fairplay that Carnival has offered the

customer database of Swan Hellenic and the Prinsendam to Saga for a

combined price of $125M. Saga, which targets the over-50s and already

has a substantial customer database, has indicated an interest in

the 1988-built 800-passenger vessel.

[GPoll189]

I am sorry to mention this but I did state this before and I was turned down. I picked the wrong ships that were going to leave the Line. If this is true which is what it is sounding like it is the idea for HAL to turn itself into the bigger cruise line that they have been doing lately. As anyone already knows is that HAL has already one ship getting ready to be built and another on the way if they pick of the option. I hope that they do pick up that option but only time will tell. Remember at sometime there will be a ceiling that the cruise industry will reach, but we don't know when that will happen.

 

So lets get back to the topic at hand "Prinsendam," if you have noticed the world cruise that "Prinsendam" has had for two years is now being giving back to the Amsterdam. Followed but the possible deployment of another S-Class or even a V-Class ship to the Pacific. Prinsendam is right now the oldest ship in the fleet. It has not been giving and problems to the line but the might want to get rid of the ship before it starts to. Remember Noordam and Nieuw Amsterdam were not that much bigger than Prinsendam and they got rid of the. However, in reality those to ships still belong to HAL. They are on long term leases(charters) with their corisponding companies.

 

However all of this is hypotetical because I don't have anything to back it up except what is already in front of me. But if it is true that Prinsendam is sold most likely the cruises that she is already slated for will be sailed but no other sailings will be added. Since I was only once on Prinsendam I never felt at home with her. She has a different feeling that all of the other HAL ships. That is nothing that will prevent me from being upset if she leaves any ship that leave HAL is a heart break.

 

I think everyone that has sailed on HAL can agree with me when they say that they fall in love with any of the ships they sail on and if they ever leave the company they are completely upset. The only thing I have seen in the last two or three years is that HAL wants to get rid of her old ships. Why not make bigger ships that can hold more passengers and keep selling out.

 

Geoffrey

 

24 cruises on HAL in 26 years on Earth

[Williebill]

I am sorry to mention this but I did state this before and I was turned down. I picked the wrong ships that were going to leave the Line. If this is true which is what it is sounding like it is the idea for HAL to turn itself into the bigger cruise line that they have been doing lately. As anyone already knows is that HAL has already one ship getting ready to be built and another on the way if they pick of the option. I hope that they do pick up that option but only time will tell. Remember at sometime there will be a ceiling that the cruise industry will reach, but we don't know when that will happen.

 

So lets get back to the topic at hand "Prinsendam," if you have noticed the world cruise that "Prinsendam" has had for two years is now being giving back to the Amsterdam. Followed but the possible deployment of another S-Class or even a V-Class ship to the Pacific. Prinsendam is right now the oldest ship in the fleet. It has not been giving and problems to the line but the might want to get rid of the ship before it starts to. Remember Noordam and Nieuw Amsterdam were not that much bigger than Prinsendam and they got rid of the. However, in reality those to ships still belong to HAL. They are on long term leases(charters) with their corisponding companies.

 

However all of this is hypotetical because I don't have anything to back it up except what is already in front of me. But if it is true that Prinsendam is sold most likely the cruises that she is already slated for will be sailed but no other sailings will be added. Since I was only once on Prinsendam I never felt at home with her. She has a different feeling that all of the other HAL ships. That is nothing that will prevent me from being upset if she leaves any ship that leave HAL is a heart break.

 

I think everyone that has sailed on HAL can agree with me when they say that they fall in love with any of the ships they sail on and if they ever leave the company they are completely upset. The only thing I have seen in the last two or three years is that HAL wants to get rid of her old ships. Why not make bigger ships that can hold more passengers and keep selling out.

 

Geoffrey

 

24 cruises on HAL in 26 years on Earth

 

Some people simply like the smaller ships more so that the larger ships, I for one. While on last years world cruise, there were rumors that HAL was considering using a larger ship for their future world cruises; I along with many other passengers on that cruise tried to convince any HAL management personnel that we saw how much we would hate that to happen. The Prinsendam is a wonderful ship!!

[GPoll189]

Williebill

 

I am sorry to mention this but HAL has but the Amsterdam back to one of the things that she and her sister ship were built for. Amsterdam will be doing the 2007 World Voyage.

 

Geoffrey

 

24 cruises on HAL in 26 years on Earth

[Grumpy1]

I've been hearing that the Prinsendam has been sold... posted time after time, by people claiming to have inside information... dating back to mid 2004. I'm sure she will leave the fleet someday, but right now she's scheduled for HAL voyages through most of 2007, with a drydock in December this year. I'll wait until I see something more than a rumor actually printed in the trade journals before I'll get too concerned about it.

[Grumpy1]

Williebill

 

I am sorry to mention this but HAL has but the Amsterdam back to one of the things that she and her sister ship were built for. Amsterdam will be doing the 2007 World Voyage.

 

Geoffrey

 

24 cruises on HAL in 26 years on Earth

But Prinsendam is doing 2 Grand Voyages, 66 day and 56 day during the same time frame that nicely compliment the Amsterdam's Grand World Voyage. There is still a great demand, apparently, for long cruises with US port embarkation/disembarkation.

[arzz]

Is it me? We are booked for a 24 day segment of her grand voyage from Callao, Peru to Buenos Airies in January of '07. We cancelled our less expensive reservations on the Rotterdam South America/Antarctica itinerary for December of '06 to take this voyage segment because of its superior itinerary (many more ports in Chile and, well, Machu Pichu is almost right there near Callao) -- we have already booked air and 6 days (independently) to Machu Pichu and Urabamba pre-cruise. I have been waiting to take this trip for about 15 years but lacked for time and money. Well, we have saved the money, and as of June both DH and I will be retired so the time will also be there. Now I am panicked that the Prinsendam will not be there!

 

I have always preferred small ships to larger ones (HAL's R and S class are really almost too big, but the best we can do these days). From what I read the cruise segment that we booked about a month ago is no longer available for booking and that several segments of that cruise are now waitlisted. Does the popularity of the ship mean nothing to HAL? It doesn't make sense.

 

Do I panic or just wait and see? After all, this might just be a rumor...........

[jhannah]

Grumpy is right. This is a very old rumor that resurfaces every once and a while.

[Tricia724]

Several months ago we booked Prinsendam for the 26-day Amazon Explorer cruise sailing on November 24, 2007. Two weeks ago we were notified by HAL that they have canceled that cruise to put Prinsendam in drydock for 23 days. As an alternative, HAL offered us either a discount or shipboard credit on several other specific sailings.....and one of the options was a segment of the November, 2006 "Taste of Two Continents" on Prinsendam. So, I think it is safe to say that Prinsendam will be sailing through the end of this year on HAL. As for the November/December, 2007 drydock, you can put your own interpretation on that. Are they fixing it up....or are they unloading it?

 

For us, we chose to sail the Veendam 30-day September, 2006 transcanal/Amazon River cruise. I'm looking forward to the cruise, but I am sorry we won't get to sail Prinsendam to the Amazon and Southern Caribbean, as we had booked a couple of days after the itinerary was announced and had the ever-popular veranda cabin 197 with the nice hot tub outside the door. I suspect that will be our only chance to try the "Elegant Explorer." The upside is that HAL made it worth our while to sail Veendam in the fall, and I appreciate that. Given that the canceled cruise was over a year and a half away, they really didn't have to do anything.

[dougnewmanatsea]

I was waiting for this to surface again ;) !

 

This latest rumor has been spreading like wildfire in semi-public for around two weeks so it is rather surprising that it took so long for it to reach these boards. Who says that news (rumor) travels fast on the Internet ;) ?

 

At risk of sounding like a broken record, yes, she is for sale. As far as I can ascertain, yes, Carnival did offer the ship to Saga. I do not know what Saga's response has been. I do not know if she is sold. There is no doubt that this is a ship which is not wanted by HAL and has been for sale for well over a year now.

 

I know of at least two companies who have actually tried to buy her and not been able to agree on price. One is Fred. Olsen, one of whose directors actually mentioned this publicly. The other I cannot name, though it probably wouldn't matter now as it was a while ago. (I will grant that was someone other than Saga though.)

 

What all this means to me is, quite simply, that they do want to sell her... But not badly enough to sell her at a price that others are willing to pay. She is for sale, but not ugently. Carnival are not known for selling this off cheaply - if they want to sell a ship they will bide their time until they get the right deal.

 

As I said, I have no idea if Saga will take (have taken) this deal or not. My gut instinct is that they won't do it - that price just looks too high to me - but I certainly can't tell you what they will do, because I simply don't know. (And if I did know, I couldn't tell you anyway ;) !)

 

I might add that in the last few years there have been three persistent rumors about Carnival selling ships. The first was CARONIA to Saga. This circulated for a year or two and nothing happened... And then one day it turned out to be true. The second was PACIFIC SKY to Pullmantur. That too circulated on-and-off for a long time and again it did eventually come true. The third is this one - PRINSENDAM to Saga. I have no idea how close they are or are not to a deal but I do not doubt that Carnival are interested in selling and Saga are interested in buying. My personal take is that eventually Carnival will sell her to Saga, but not quite yet... That's just my personal speculation though.

 

Either way, I see no cause for panic to those who have current bookings on PRINSENDAM. Most likely, if Saga were to decide to buy her tomorrow, they would charter her back to HAL until her current schedule is finished, at which point they would take delivery. This is exactly what they did with Cunard's CARONIA (now SAGA RUBY) a couple of years back. Even if they do decide to cut her schedule short - which I think very unlikely - I can't see them taking her for at least another year or more, leaving plenty of time for those with cancelled cruises to find replacements.

 

In the end we will just have to wait and see...

[Atomica]

Very Interesting, Doug. Thanks for the info!

 

Although I will probably never get to sail her, simply because her itineraries are longer than I can take off work for, I did pick up the 2007 Prinsendam Voyages brochure the other day. I would think that HAL would keep her on until the end of 2007, as they seem to have spent a considerable amount marketing her, and I don't know of any other ship they would use to replace her.

[Nancyquilts]

Prinsendam is such a lovely ship - we've followed her through three changes of cruise lines, so I guess we'll have to follow her again - hope it isn't until after our next cruise on her next January. Nancy

[sailroscoe]

Thanks for the information Doug. Saga is a very popular cruise line in Europe for the over 50`s group, I wouldn`t mind trying them

[gizmo]

Doug, Thanks for the info.

[trubey]

I would probably consider myself a Prinsendam fan, rather than a HAL fan. So, I guess I'll go google Saga and see what they are about. susana.

 

Here's the link for Saga cruises:

 

http://www.saga.co.uk/travel/cruises3/sagacruisinghome.asp?from=leftnav&bhcp=1

 

Just checked . . . They sound wonderful, but I can't afford them. If pounds were the same as dollars, all would be well. susana.

[bepsf]

Well, I guess this means that we all know what one of the new Signature ships will be named...

;)

[Grumpy1]

Prinsendam is such a lovely ship - we've followed her through three changes of cruise lines, so I guess we'll have to follow her again - hope it isn't until after our next cruise on her next January. Nancy

 

Nancy, we have a roll call thread for the Jan '07 Circle South America. Come join us. It's not very active yet, but should pick up as we get closer to sailing date. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=261027

 

Arzz... Don't panic. We're still planning on welcoming you aboard in Callao.

[Grumpy1]

Well, I guess this means that we all know what one of the new Signature ships will be named...

;)

My bet is that the Signature class ships will not use recycled names. New ships... taking HAL in a new direction... new names.

[RevNeal]

My bet is that the Signature class ships will not use recycled names. New ships... taking HAL in a new direction... new names.

 

Actually, every name currently in use is either a recycled historic damship name or an adapted dijkship name (the name "Oosterdam" was adapted from the historic Oosterdijk). Indeed, the Line has a LONG history of re-using it's favorite names again and again and again. We've joked, on this board and over drinks on the Noordam last month, about what the first Signature might end up being called: I still like the Leerdam III, and Captain Card seemed to be partial to the Spaarndam III. Either are certainly possible -- even the fun Dubbeldam II and Blommersdam (from Blommersdijk II) are possible! -- and it will be interesting to see what HAL chooses to do. However, I doubt that ... unless an announcement is made really soon concerning the sale of the Prinsendam II ... we'll see the first of the Signatures be named Prinsendam III. HAL will probably be making an announcement within this calendar year as to the name they've chosen for the new Signature ship (if they follow what they've done in the past), and I doubt they would apply Prinsendam III unless it had been announced that the Prinsendam II would be leaving the fleet prior to the Signature's maiden voyage. If HAL contracts for a second Signature ship -- something I believe is a pretty safe bet -- then I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find them naming her the Prinsendam III (assuming, again, that the current Prinsendam has left the fleet by then).

 

But, of course, this could all be moot. This afternoon HAL could issue a press release announcing the sale of the Prinsendam II and the naming of the first Signature the Prinsendam III. But ... barring such a first announcement, the second wouldn't happen.

[Grumpy1]

But, just as they named all of the Vista ships for the compass points, creating a logical group of names, I would think that the signature series would also have a grouping of names that was related in some way. Time will tell....

[RevNeal]

But, just as they named all of the Vista ships for the compass points, creating a logical group of names, I would think that the signature series would also have a grouping of names that was related in some way. Time will tell....

 

That's possible. They only had to convert one historic djikship name to a damship name in order to do it, too. However, there was no rhyme or reason behind the naming of the 4 R-class ships ... they simply drew names from the line's history. The same was true for the S-class ships.

 

One could say that the "Signature" name reflects premium status. Hence, one of the line's "signature" (but currently unused) names should be used: "Nieuw Amsterdam." Sadly, I doubt they'll use the Nieuw Amsterdam so long as the Amsterdam is still in service. Yes, I know, the reference relative to each is to two different cities ... but most people don't pay much attention to history and won't understand this distinction ... and HAL won't want to confuse that many people. :(

[arzz]

Thanks Grumpy for the encouragement -- there is little that woud keep us (short of the cruise not happening) from that sailing. Not only do I look forward to the cruise, but the chance to sail Prinsendam II before there is a Prinsendam III!

 

We notonly covet the itinerary, but the opportunity to once again sail a smaller ship. Most of the smaller ships that we loved have either gone down to the cost of SOLAS or are out of range of our pocket book.

 

It will be interesting to watch as events unfold -- I only hope they don't do so too rapidly.

[jhannah]

Could you envision the Delftdam? It's decor would feature nice creams and blues, and the atrium centerpiece would be Delft work of some sort ... maybe a large vase.