Emails from p and o

[molecrochip]

33 minutes ago, Mymarina Bay said:

Today I was in discussion with my TA and by chance this issue was raised.  He did say he thought PO were tightening the rules due to an incident last October on Iona when there was a fire due to a lithium battery pack setting alight. (Un)Fortunately it happened in port but I believe the ship was evacuated while it was extinguished however it could so easily have happened at sea. 

Iona was alongside in Southampton on changeover day.

 

It happened in a cabin on deck 10, the passenger carried the faulty battery down to deck 7 atrium and crew extinguished it very promptly.

 

The atrium was evacuated but not the ship. This was predominantly because of the smoke caused by the battery.

 

Boarding was suspended for a while. Passengers were not called to muster.

Edited September 6 by molecrochip

[molecrochip]

I believe that there is a concern that a lithium battery in a partially accessible cabin could potentially trap a person in the cabin whereas in bigger cabins/those with a balcony offer a better chance of evacuation.

 

Also the smaller cabins would be the most difficult to fight a fire in due to lack of space.

[molecrochip]

Yes, there have been problems with the introduction of the evac chair process but the accessibility team are well experienced, do understand disabilities, and have worked hard to reduce those issues. It’s not their fault. Poor comms and actual policies sit elsewhere along with the IT issue which overbooked evac chairs, restricting availability initially.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Mymarina Bay said:

Today I was in discussion with my TA and by chance this issue was raised.  He did say he thought PO were tightening the rules due to an incident last October on Iona when there was a fire due to a lithium battery pack setting alight. (Un)Fortunately it happened in port but I believe the ship was evacuated while it was extinguished however it could so easily have happened at sea. 

The owner of that vehicle posted on here.  The ship was not evacuated. If I recall correctly the person had just boarded in Southampton. There are photographs in the original post.

[david63]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

the smaller cabins would be the most difficult to fight a fire in due to lack of space.

But doesn't that issue exist all the time whether it is used as an accessible cabin or not?

[Mrsmas]

23 minutes ago, david63 said:

But doesn't that issue exist all the time whether it is used as an accessible cabin 

Lithium batteries are in everything phones, cameras, laptops and all equally able to cause a fire so are they not allowing these in smaller cabins either. It's 1 battery out of possibly thousands that went on fire so let's make it difficult for everyone. 

[StopTheWorld]

Another rant!!!

Booked on my 1st P&O cruise next January - embarking Arcadia in Auckland for the second half of the world cruise.

I advised P&O at the time of booking of my husband’s mobility issues, duly completed the form, and the evacuation chair appeared on my itinerary.

As my husband’s mobility has deteriorated since booking, we have been considering purchasing a powered wheelchair to take on with us….. and then the email arrived. 
I have sent off a list of questions to my travel agent in the hope that she can get some sense out of P&O.

It appears from @TigerB experience that we may now not be allowed to board with a powered wheelchair (which folds down) if an accessible cabin is not available 😫 But we CAN take on board a manual wheelchair of the same dimensions and folding mechanism?

I do not understand P&O’s explanation for this (forcing all powered chair users in to a fully accessible cabin) at all “This is to make sure the powered mobility device can be stored in a place the crew can easily reach in the unlikely event of an emergency.” 🤔

So…. will there be a designated place for you to store your chair/scooter in whilst in your cabin? What if you need it to move around the cabin? How will the crew find it!!!  And for those with a manual wheelchair, the crew won’t have any difficulty finding their chair in an emergency? Does the battery on a chair act like an invisibility cloak at sea?? 
And to top it all off, the previously confirmed evacuation chair has now disappeared from my itinerary. (Thanks to @Selbourne as I wouldn’t have thought to check). 
An alternative cruise can’t be found for us - the world cruise only happens once a year - and we have booked flights and accommodation for 3 weeks before emabarking in Australia and New Zealand. To say I’m not happy is an understatement 😡

[TigerB]

 

@StopTheWorld, if you're referring to the itinerary on MyCruise, the information dropped off ours ages ago. However, as Moley writes in post #41, the evacuation chair is listed on the first day of the itinerary on the booking form; this is for our last booking...

 

 

If yours doesn't show it you could contact P&O or your TA and ask for another one to be sent.

 

Are you currently booked into a partially accessible cabin? We've not sailed on Arcadia so I don't know what they're like. Our experience of partially accessible cabins is only on Arvia and Iona and, as I've previously written, our lass's compact power chair is wholly suitable for such a cabin.  For P&O to now say it isn't is absurd.

 

I absolutely agree with you about there being, when a crew member enters a cabin, no difference in finding a power chair or manual chair. What do they think a guest who absolutely needs it is going to do, store it in the wardrobe? 

 

 

[TigerB]

4 hours ago, molecrochip said:

I believe that there is a concern that a lithium battery in a partially accessible cabin could potentially trap a person in the cabin whereas in bigger cabins/those with a balcony offer a better chance of evacuation.

 

Also the smaller cabins would be the most difficult to fight a fire in due to lack of space.

 

Is that the party line or just your take on why the policy has changed?

If the former, then why don't they write the policy to say that only lithium powered wheelchairs will be included in the same classification as mobility scooters?

 

The hallway area, from the cabin door to where it opens into the bedroom area, is the same in both a partially accessible cabin and a fully accessible cabin. If a lithium powered chair is stored in that hallway area, and there was a fire, the occupants would face the same problem in reaching the cabin door in both cabin types.  Having a balcony to escape to is a moot point; the fully accessible outside cabins don't have balconies.

 

As others have written, what about lithium batteries in other devices?  They pose just as much risk; probably more risk given that there are many more of those on a ship than there are lithium powered wheelchairs and scooters.

 

[StopTheWorld]

7 hours ago, TigerB said:

Are you currently booked into a partially accessible cabin? We've not sailed on Arcadia so I don't know what they're like. Our experience of partially accessible cabins is only on Arvia and Iona and, as I've previously written, our lass's compact power chair is wholly suitable for such a cabin.  For P&O to now say it isn't is absurd.

 

We’re booked into a mini-suite. Huge room with a sofa and 2 armchairs. It also has a bath and separate shower cabinet. But on the list of “suitable cabins” provided by P&O only 2 mini-suites are shown which I presume are accessible mini-suites.

 

My husband can manage fine with his sticks in the cabin and so we did not book, nor do not need, a fully accessible cabin. 
 

A ridiculous situation as we could ask for one or both of the armchairs to be removed and put the wheelchair there. (I know the armchairs can be removed upon request). 
 

My only hope is that there is still an accessible cabin available at this short notice. I’m waiting for a response from my travel agent. 

[Selbourne]

7 hours ago, TigerB said:

 

Is that the party line or just your take on why the policy has changed?

If the former, then why don't they write the policy to say that only lithium powered wheelchairs will be included in the same classification as mobility scooters?

 

The hallway area, from the cabin door to where it opens into the bedroom area, is the same in both a partially accessible cabin and a fully accessible cabin. If a lithium powered chair is stored in that hallway area, and there was a fire, the occupants would face the same problem in reaching the cabin door in both cabin types.  Having a balcony to escape to is a moot point; the fully accessible outside cabins don't have balconies.

 

As others have written, what about lithium batteries in other devices?  They pose just as much risk; probably more risk given that there are many more of those on a ship than there are lithium powered wheelchairs and scooters.

 

This highlights extremely well why poorly thought out ‘sledgehammer to crack a nut’ policies are so illogical. 
 

Although not directly affected, the knock-on consequences for us could be severe. Due to the way that my wife’s condition has deteriorated over the last year, we will no longer book cruises years in advance, as we just don’t know if we will be able to go on them. Over the last 18 months we managed to secure 2 cruises in accessible balcony cabins with P&O, totalling 79 nights, by booking a couple of months prior to sail date. If those whose level of disability doesn’t in itself require a fully accessible cabin are being forced to take one, our chances of being able to do this again diminish significantly. 

[molecrochip]

8 hours ago, TigerB said:

 

Is that the party line or just your take on why the policy has changed?

If the former, then why don't they write the policy to say that only lithium powered wheelchairs will be included in the same classification as mobility scooters?

 

The hallway area, from the cabin door to where it opens into the bedroom area, is the same in both a partially accessible cabin and a fully accessible cabin. If a lithium powered chair is stored in that hallway area, and there was a fire, the occupants would face the same problem in reaching the cabin door in both cabin types.  Having a balcony to escape to is a moot point; the fully accessible outside cabins don't have balconies.

 

As others have written, what about lithium batteries in other devices?  They pose just as much risk; probably more risk given that there are many more of those on a ship than there are lithium powered wheelchairs and scooters.

 

As always, this is my understanding. 
 

Practically, you can’t write a policy excluding some power chairs, not others - it will just lead to confusion and mistakes.

 

Regarding batteries, the size of battery in a power chair is considerably larger than a phone. Yes, both pose a risk, but the power chair is greater. I believe there are containment devices that fit mobile phones where it gets dropped in with, put the lid on and then it burns out. Because of the physical size of powerchair batteries, that’s not possible.

[nosapphire]

12 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

The owner of that vehicle posted on here.  The ship was not evacuated. If I recall correctly the person had just boarded in Southampton. There are photographs in the original post.

The original report was interesting, not least because it showed that the crew were efficient at controlling the fire; can't see it would be any different whether in port or at sea.

Makes me wonder if that incident made P&O decide that it would be a good idea if they knew exactly how many powered scooters/wheelchairs are on board the ship, and the quickest/simplest way is to only allow them to be brought on board if an accessible cabin is booked.

I would think that one of the ongoing risk-assessments that have to be taken is fire-fighting - which would include assessing how many points of risk there are.

[StopTheWorld]

4 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

The original report was interesting, not least because it showed that the crew were efficient at controlling the fire; can't see it would be any different whether in port or at sea.

Makes me wonder if that incident made P&O decide that it would be a good idea if they knew exactly how many powered scooters/wheelchairs are on board the ship, and the quickest/simplest way is to only allow them to be brought on board if an accessible cabin is booked.

I would think that one of the ongoing risk-assessments that have to be taken is fire-fighting - which would include assessing how many points of risk there are.

If they want to know how many powered wheelchairs/scooters are onboard, all they have to do is ask customers to declare this in advance.
If they need to set a limit, then again ask people in advance, and cap the numbers.

It really doesn’t matter which cabin the powered device is allocated to, because the powered device will probably be out of the cabin more than in.

P&O saying that customers with a powered device need to be in an accessible cabin “so that crew know where to locate the device” is nonsense- how will crew locate the device if the emergency happens when the person isn’t in the cabin? 

What P&O are doing is forcing everyone with a powered chair into an accessible cabin, even if they don’t need it, which leaves those who DO need an accessible cabin less choice. And those of us who have booked a regular cabin are now facing cancellation of our cruise. 

And no one yet knows the real reason behind this policy change, which is the really frustrating thing. 

 

[sandancer]

So if P&O decide that the wheelchair or scooter, manual or powered, is not deigned to be acceptable and you are refused boarding will the deposits be returned. We have 3 cruises booked totalling a substantial amount in deposits and it would be unfair for P&O to retain them. Especially as we have cruised several times with the same chair and always in a standard cabin. 

[nosapphire]

Regardless of the reasons for the changes (which are probably valid reasons..) reading this thread the way the change of policy is being handled is horrifying.

Moving the goalposts after somebody has made a booking is only acceptable if there has been a change in legislation that leaves them no option.

Any company should be able to explain in clear terms what the change is, why it has happened, and what you now have to do - not leave people going round in circles trying to find out whether or not they will still have a cruise.

My sympathies to everybody affected by this.

 

[molecrochip]

10 hours ago, sandancer said:

So if P&O decide that the wheelchair or scooter, manual or powered, is not deigned to be acceptable and you are refused boarding will the deposits be returned. We have 3 cruises booked totalling a substantial amount in deposits and it would be unfair for P&O to retain them. Especially as we have cruised several times with the same chair and always in a standard cabin. 

P&O are trying to engage with customers so it’s resolved earlier than denying boarding. But that may mean cancelling a cruise and refunding the deposit but that should be the last resort.

7 hours ago, nosapphire said:

Regardless of the reasons for the changes (which are probably valid reasons..) reading this thread the way the change of policy is being handled is horrifying.

Moving the goalposts after somebody has made a booking is only acceptable if there has been a change in legislation that leaves them no option.

Any company should be able to explain in clear terms what the change is, why it has happened, and what you now have to do - not leave people going round in circles trying to find out whether or not they will still have a cruise.

My sympathies to everybody affected by this.

Policies do change. Whenever change happens there will be thousands of people with cruises booked who could be impacted. This appears to be a health & safety change hence immediate introduction.

10 hours ago, StopTheWorld said:

What P&O are doing is forcing everyone with a powered chair into an accessible cabin, even if they don’t need it, which leaves those who DO need an accessible cabin less choice. And those of us who have booked a regular cabin are now facing cancellation of our cruise. 

And no one yet knows the real reason behind this policy change, which is the really frustrating thing. 

No, P&O have decided that everyone with a power chair requires an accessible cabin. Their ship, their rules. 
 

As for potential cancellation, that’s why they are trying to work with their customers to resolve.

[TigerB]

Well, we've just been forced to cancel our cruise next November. We were booked into a partially accessible inside cabin on Iona, which, as I have previously stated, has been perfectly suitable for our lass and her power chair on four previous cruises.

 

I have posted about our experience on another thread. I won't repeat that post here, but if you are at all interested to read it, this is the link...

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2997550-new-rules-for-wheelchair-users/page/6/#comment-67902170

 

Needless to say, we are not happy!🤬