Tourists bashed in St. Marteen

[cruisebax]

This really worries me; we are scheduled to be in St. Maarten next week on Celebrity's Millennium. We are scheduled to be there until 1 AM and thought about going to one of the local watering holes, but feel uneasy now. I realize these travelers were not on a Celebrity cruise and that the same thing happens in the states, but it does say something.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/po/20060408/...hedinstmaarten

 

 

SUMMARY: Two U.S. men vacationing on the Caribbean island of St. Maarten were victims of an anti-gay attack early Thursday morning.

 

 

Two U.S. men vacationing on the Caribbean island of St. Maarten were victims of an anti-gay attack early Thursday morning and have been transferred to a Miami hospital, CBS News reported on Friday.

 

 

Richard Jefferson, a senior news producer for CBS, was hospitalized with his friend Ryan Smith, also a CBS employee, after being attacked after leaving Bamboo Bernie's, a popular nightclub.

 

 

The men were reportedly beat with a wheel wrench or metal pipe. Smith suffered a fractured skull and remains unable to speak properly. Jefferson had severe cuts on the back of his head and lower back, but he is able to walk, the network reported.

 

 

The group of attackers consisted of four men and two women who reportedly called themselves "gay bashers."

 

 

The victims contacted police on the island to file a report, but authorities never followed up.

 

 

Jefferson told St. Maarten's Daily Herald that he had been visiting the island for 15 years and found it hard now to call it a "friendly island."

[tuggers]

I have visited StM approximately 4 times in the last 6 months and have never heard of anything like this. However, (1) I am not a gay man and (2) I would NEVER think of this as a place that I would feel comfortable going to a local night club.

It's a great place to shop, go to the beach and maybe even go to a nice restaurant for dinner if I was there late. But not a 'watering hole'. It's not the states. And I would do my partying on the ship.

BTW, this opinion holds true for most of the islands. When we go to these places we mostly deal with shop owners who are glad we are there and have a vested interest in keeping us happy, Not so with the 'bar crowd'. I just don't feel it's safe for those types of activities. JMO.

[PAISANO]

Don't worry, I've been their several times and have never had a

bad experience. Stick to the beaches and shopping area and you will

have no problems.

[superjerryw]

The islands in the Caribbean may be nice to look at, but the fact remains that most of them are third world countries. Wandering aound on your own late at night is simply not a good idea for anyone. While peoples perception might be that these places are paradise, that is frequently far from the truth.

[MLT53]

That makes me sick. I feel terrible for those two men.

[Coolcruise02]

Most of the islands do not have tolerance towards gays. We had a taxi driver in Barbados very outspoken on this subject and he explained it to us. It is not accepted in their culture.

[nimbex1970]

Thanks for the news update. This doesn't only affect "gays" just the preception. It's not uncommon for my DH and his best buddy to go off on shore, knowing the two of them and a couple of drinks.... an arm around each shoulder toasting their friendship to each other..... can give the wrong impression easily.

 

can happen to anyone.

 

ps. this buddy showed up in our LOCAL watering hole after work in a suit and tie... the patrons... local farmers didn't take too kindly to his "snooty" attire and roughed him up... and yep, we've been there several times.....

 

lack of tolerance is everywhere, sometimes while celebrating on vacation we forget to be careful of surroundings. I hope more news pressure will be exerted and charges pressed..... doubtful though:( and very upsetting anywhere IMO.

[poetic license]

The original poster expressed concern over visiting St. Maarten next week. I think these concerns are valid, and that the advice given here for caution is prudent.

 

As Americans visiting what are incredibly poverty stricken countries, there's an undercurrent of anger when we come as tourists, inflict our customs and mores on their countries, flashing a lot of cash around. To be sure, our dollars are welcome so long as we leave them there. Just remember the veneer of graciousness is very thin indeed.

 

Cheers~

[dkjretired]

As in any island, be careful and use good judgement. The cruise ships are there for the most part in daylight, so most should be okay. Just remember that these islands and other parts of the world are not necessarily in sync with your views so use caution. Don't be the Ugly American

[LauraS]

We have some EXCELLENT suggestions for staying safe while in port, read them here

 

Laura

[cruisebax]

Thanks for the advice, we want to experience the culture of the different ports but safety is the first priority. My thought is that if we stay with the group, we will be okay. I just don't want to visit anywhere that is openly hostile and violent.

[GMoney]

Keep in mind that these types of incidents happen right here in the good ol USA. Nothing unique about St Maarten...

[charlielinda]

We returned from a wonderful week in St. Martin on Saturday. I'm very sad to hear about the two men being beaten and will say some prayers for them and for tolerance.

 

Having said that . . . as others have said during the day going around town or taking a cab or car to a beac is perfectly safe. Going out to dinner is perfectly safe -- use your judgment and you'll be fine.

 

Have a wonderful crusie.

[crucero-amante]

I just returned from being on Millennium the same schedule you will be on.

 

There really is no point in trying to find night life on the island; there is nothing close to the pier that is open and why risk something happening. We thought about getting off the ship after dinner but decided against it. Just make a fun filled day of your stop and make your fun on the ship in the evening.

The ship has island night that night so there is something special going on anyway.

[KatWag]

I would experience the culture in other ways than going to the nightclubs. Like some of the other posters mentioned, by all means go out to dinner somewhere. I would have my late night entertainment on the ship. Not worth the risk.

[herb]

Even when we stay at all-inclusives, during the day we'll go sightseeing etc., but when the sun goes down we stay on premises.

[cruisebax]

Thanks again, like I mentioned, we will be in the port all day so I think dinner is the best option. We don't plan to stay out still 1 AM. We like to experience cities like locals do. We had alot of fun in Costa Maya spending an afternoon at the beach in the fishing village, not in the main tourist area at the port. But like most have suggested, we will spend the day at the beach and do some shopping and head back to the ship before it gets too late. I posted this so we ALL can be a little more aware when we are traveling.

 

Thanks again, your experiences are most educational to novice cruisers.

[KenM]

Why is everyone surprised.

IT always amazes me that many in our country apply our norms to the rest of the world..

When in a foreign location, UNDERSTAND their culture and beliefs..ours are not relevant...

 

Being Gay might be tolerated here but it is not in many areas of the world.

In fact in some areas it is a capital offense.

 

Comitting battery on anyone is wrong. However, if you flagrantly ignore the cultural norms of the country that you are in, you can expect to bear the results.

[NorCalCruiseGuy]

Why is everyone surprised.

IT always amazes me that many in our country apply our norms to the rest of the world..

When in a foreign location, UNDERSTAND their culture and beliefs..ours are not relevant...

 

Being Gay might be tolerated here but it is not in many areas of the world.

In fact in some areas it is a capital offense.

 

Comitting battery on anyone is wrong. However, if you flagrantly ignore the cultural norms of the country that you are in, you can expect to bear the results.

 

Simply BEING gay is not flagrantly ignoring the cultural norms of a country. Yes, unfortunately in some parts of the world it is not accepted, just as it is not accepted in some parts of the world to be Christian, or Jewish or any of a list of things. That does not mean that one should be beaten or killed for it. Intolerance and ignorance go hand in hand, in places all over the world, even here in the USA. We should never see it as OK.

[02143]

However, if you flagrantly ignore the cultural norms of the country that you are in, you can expect to bear the results.

 

You think it's reasonable to expect a tire iron to the head and possible murder for hugging in a bar? I think you're stretching a little bit to justify what can not be justified, not even by the moral relativism you're citing.

 

I think it is reasonable to expect that one will NOT be violently attacked for discreet behavior on an island that welcomes hundreds of thousands of U.S. tourists each year and knows that tourism is the basis for its economy. Then again, you'd think it wouldn't happen in America either, but it does.

[leerobbs]

__________________

I don't think you should be attacked anywhere!! However, when deciding what you do, where you go and how you conduct yourself reality should be a part of your logic. Should Natalle Holloway have been taken off and killed? No...but it happened and because she apparently was drinking and then left with three strangers she put herself in a very bad situation and it happened. The investigation which followed was shoddy and lacked everything we as Americans expect but as we have all found out Aruba is not America. I would never justify what happened to the men in St. Martin, but it did happen and what can we as tourists learn from it? I think in the future it would be reasonable for a gay couple who is traveling in St. Martin to understand they might be the target of an attack. Just like the above poster said, the men in St. Martin thought it Reasonable to have discrete behavior on an Island and not be singled out for that behavior...well you better think again. Just like Christians who travel in foreign lands to do mission work they are subject to those they come into contact with. We have many reports of Christians being murdered for being Christians. I am a Christain and when I see these reports I think it is reasonable to think that they should be safe wherever they are. We are not dealing with reasonable people, reason should not be a part of the picture, you cannot think like that. We must be careful and be aware of the danger we are in, if you are in bars at night you better look out. Most cruise visits are during the day and you leave in the afternoon. But when you are staying for the night and you are not inside an all inclusive resort...wow! Reasonable thinking will get you clubbed in the head with a tire tool or killed!