BUMPED OFF MSC Baltic cruise June 3, 2006

[ORIENTEER]

To all those who have replied a hearty thanks for all your support. I think the most frustrating part is not getting anywhere with the agencies that are supposed to be out there to support us.

 

I finally found two people that have turned this around. I got in touch with Chris Elliot of the Miami Herald. He immediately sent my email to Anita Dunham-Potter, travel journalist for TRIPSO, MSNBC and Fodor.

 

I am thrilled to tell you that today her article appeared on TRIPSO. She has been very fair, clear & practical.

http://www.tripso.com/dunhampotter/index.html

 

Thanks to everyone again.

Orienteer (I love Orienteering - a treasure hunt in the countryside - try it, it's so much fun)

Spencer

[Linerguy]

JCANINO,

 

I found your response to be rude and downright cocky; I certainly hope you have more empathy for the plight of your own customers,...but for some reason, I doubt it.

 

I also think your comment, "I'm curious to see if you come back to see if there are responses", is hilarious; especially since YOU haven't returned to this thread.

 

Russ

[jcanino]

JCANINO,

 

I found your response to be rude and downright cocky; I certainly hope you have more empathy for the plight of your own customers,...but for some reason, I doubt it.

 

I also think your comment, "I'm curious to see if you come back to see if there are responses", is hilarious; especially since YOU haven't returned to this thread.

 

Just because I didn't post any more doesn't mean that I haven't been following the thread. If you have read complaints here for awhile, you will notice a pattern that a lot of people register here to make a complaint about a cruise line and never come back.

 

We currently have 50 cabins that are in jeopardy because a cruise line cancelled a sailing. We are doing everything we can to get them the most out of the situation but have let the clients know that the cruise line can do whatever they want and we have no control over what they do.

 

Next time you make a statement "especially since YOU haven't returned to this thread.", you should find out more facts before you do. You don't know me, so don't judge me based on a single message. I don't sugar coat things just to make someone feel good.

[Linerguy]

"You don't know me, so don't judge me based on a single message."

 

Why not? That's exactly what you did to the OP.

[jcanino]

"You don't know me, so don't judge me based on a single message."

 

Why not? That's exactly what you did to the OP.

 

The OP only had one post when I left my comment. There was nothing else to base a judgement on. Take a look at his history of messages. It is a total of 13, all about being bumbed from a cruise ship. Did you bother to look at the number of messages that I have left here or what I post messages about to judge me? My guess is no.

 

Come to reality now. What happened to the OP may have been a rotten thing for the cruise line to do, they can and will bump people.

[Linerguy]

There's no need to look at your other posts, I was commenting only on your original post within this thread; which was out of line. It has nothing to do with the fact that, as you've said, cruise lines can and do bump people,...this I'm well aware of. But just because it can and does happen doesn't make it right and the OP was simply filling us in on the situation. You were the one who made the comment about it being their first post,...well, unlike many folks who's first post is a barrage of whining about silly things, this was not in the same category. You were also the one who predicted that the OP would not return to the thread to follow up; of course we now know that you were dead wrong but, for some reason, can't find it in yourself to say so.

 

You only returned to this thread when you were directly called out on the carpet by me. I suggest you step up to the plate, admit you were wrong about the OP and move on.

 

I'm done trading barbs with you,....

 

Linerguy

[jcanino]

There's no need to look at your other posts, I was commenting only on your original post within this thread; which was out of line. It has nothing to do with the fact that, as you've said, cruise lines can and do bump people,...this I'm well aware of. But just because it can and does happen doesn't make it right and the OP was simply filling us in on the situation. You were the one who made the comment about it being their first post,...well, unlike many folks who's first post is a barrage of whining about silly things, this was not in the same category. You were also the one who predicted that the OP would not return to the thread to follow up; of course we now know that you were dead wrong but, for some reason, can't find it in yourself to say so.

 

You only returned to this thread when you were directly called out on the carpet by me. I suggest you step up to the plate, admit you were wrong about the OP and move on.

 

I'm done trading barbs with you,....

 

You have no idea how many times I have returned to the thread, which was actually after every single message was posted so really have no idea what you are talking about. I never predicted that the OP would not come back. If you read my post it says "I'm curious to see if you come back to see if there are responses." Those were my exact words. It is my opinion that the OP posted here and everywhere else she could on the internet (do a google search) to try and find a sympathetic ear.

 

I'm glad you're done. Now go find something else to complain about.

[JohnL1935]

I just returned from a fantastic 12 days on the Carnival Liberty cruising Italy, etc. In one port there was a MSC ship docked behind our ship so I was interested in the line. We probably will return to do a similar trip next year and a previous cruiser wrote about his 11/07 MSC Musica cruise from Europe to South American that looked appealing to me. After reading what MSC did to the OP I think I'll stay with US cruise operators. If you have a complaint regarding foreign owners they seem much less caring than US companies and your options are greatly restricted.

 

John L.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Usually they ask for volunteers (just like the airlines) and offer a complete refund plus extras for you next cruise.

Only this case they don't deal with the client directly they go through your TA.

 

Sometime TA's get it wrong and just think the client is BUMPED when they are not or they are too lazy to see if that client wants to take the bump or not.

Unless the cruise line is cancelling the whole cruise then you have choices.

 

Lyn,

They didn't ask for volunteers in this case because according to the article the whole ship was chartered. Everybody booked before the charter was bumped. In this case there is nothing for the TA to get wrong and Rosemary was left with no choices.

 

I think the actions of MSC were appalling and I can't believe the way Mr. Sasso replied in that article I just read.

 

RoseMary certainly got a raw deal and I would be as livid as she is.

 

Bill

[qe2]

While travel insurance is valuable and important. It does not cover anything if the supplier "bumps you" or cancels your reservation. If you have a question about this, please ask tour insurance provider.

[BCHappyGal]

I have read these comments with interestI have wondered about this cruise line.

 

I have had my concerns about their customer service.

 

I now have my answer and I will definitely aviod them.

 

Thanks for the HEADS UP!

[travelersrwe]

What about taking them to small claims court? Its hard to enforce small print that was never delivered? Surely common sense has to be enforced somewhere and perhaps the courts can do it.

[Member]

I wonder what are the other "bumped" MSC passengers doing? MSC would definately like s to break them up to avoid a cased-action from all.

[ORIENTEER]

You might be interested in the discussion going on regarding the legality of "Bumping" at this site:

http://www.tripso.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9483

 

Regards,

Spencer/Orienteer

http://www.cruisebumping.ca

[alpal1993]

I was interested in a Med cruise for next year,but this line doesn't seem to be one I would enjoy.

A few years ago I was booked on a 9 day Carribean cruise.While on the roll call board I learned that the company had moved the ship, from my home port of FLL to Amsterdam. On a phone call from my T/A I was offered to stay on the ship with original quoted price and $100 on board credit.I received a 12 day Baltic Cruise and needless to say I was very pleased.

I can only imagine how devestating this entire situation must be to you and your family. Good luck getting the situation remidied.

If I was me I would be camped out side their door!!!!!

[Steamboatin]

We got bumped from a 7 day HAL cruise.

 

All we got was a FREE 10 day HAL cruise.:D

[ORIENTEER]

I finally got a reply from the Federal Maritime Commission so I thought you might like to have an update & an address.

 

The Federal Maritime Commission says the "Public Law 89-777, the statute governing this situation, requires only that the cruise operator refund the actual cruise fare."

 

Transportation Specialist

Federal Maritime Commission

Office of Consumer Affairs & Dispute Resolution Services

Washington, DC

20573-0001

 

Regards

Orienteer/Spencer

[annX]

Because the federal statute specifically deals with this bumping situation it is highly unlikely that any US federal or state jurisdiction would be able to circumvent the law in order to achieve a different result, to wit, refund of purchase price exclusiverly, which, of course, is not going to cover your losses and put you in the same financial boat you were before these crass overreachers relied on the contract terms to coitus you.

 

Certain jurisdictions do have general consumer protection statutes that are designed to afford protection and relief to consumers damaged by unfair business practices. For example, see California Business & Professions Code sec. 17500. Cruise contracts typically contain jurisdiction limiting clauses (such as " in the event of a dispute we may only be sued in federal court in Florida, etc"). However, these consumer protection statutes are not based upon contract but on broader priniciples of unfair conduct. This distinction is important to establish jurisdiction in local courts ( jusrisdiction is the right of the local court to entertain a complaint). The company need only have done some business within the jurisdiction re your booking or have sufficient ongoing contacts in order for them to be subject to lawsuits within the jurisdiction ...and this is true notwithstanding jurisdiction limiting clauses in their contracts.

As an exlawyer who worked in the consumer rights area quite some time I have always believed these cruise contracts were suspicious in that they rely on language and terms that the consumer has not even seen at the time the consumer pays money and becomes subject to the adhesive provisions of the contract. In many situations the deposit or full payment is made within the time frame that the customer can not cancel without a penalty. To back out after reading what the companys rights are, the consumer would still have to pay a penalty. Kind of unfair as I see things.

If you are ambitious I might suggest you ask a lawyer friend to look up the general consumer protection statutes of the jurisdiction ( state) where you reside. Conceivably, based upon local/state consumer protection statues there might be a way to get an injunction against enforcement of the contract terms until such time as the customer has been provided a copy of the contract or at least an injunction against charging a penalty for cancellation until such time as the customer has had an opportunity to read the contract. Anything to get the companies to start rethinking how they do things.

Someone on a mission might be able to make some headway in this regard. It is small solace, but it is better than simply gnawing one's teeth.

[surfklutz]

I'm really shocked at this response to what I think is a pretty sad account of his/her experience. I am new to this forum as well and didn't realize this type of post was frowned upon. I had no idea you could be bumped when you were paid in full...this was news to me. And I tell ya what, I would be equally upset especially given the situation the poster explained and what all was involved in the planning of this cruise. Should that happen, however, as sure as hell won't post anything about it on here because I don't want to engage in some sorta message board war with someone when all I was trying to do was garner a little sympathy and get some advice. Unbelievable. :mad:

 

It is only frowned upon by some. I find both the good and the bad posts helpful all around.

 

I feel that the cruise line was wrong in this case to take a group over a traditional booking. I know why they do it - and I know that they can do it - but the question is - should they have done it? And the answer is a resounding NO. Greed by the cruise line took over.

 

I have been bumped off a ship for a charter - but that cruise line gave me my money back, paid my airline change fees, any non refundable other charges AND put me on another cruise for free - AND gave me a 25% credit on the next cruise I booked with them. But then I had an agent who took my situation to the cruise line and worked with them on my specific situation. This cruise line and my agent proved to me that they were interested in my future business - and they got it. I have been on 7 others with that line since that time.

 

I would think that they agent who was so calloused in his reply would have a bit more sympathy for the OP. As an agent he represents both the cruise line and the passenger. He seems to be siding only with the cruise line on this issue. I would think twice about using him as my agent for sure.

[surfklutz]

Here is a thought. Find out who the local sales rep is for MSC for your area and give them a call. It is exactly the kind of call reps HATE - but they are usually in a situation to contact someone at the headquarters and get more done. I read not so long ago that they just increased their field sales by quite a bit - so you do have a local rep who might be willing to help.

[cruisenc]

Can I ask a dumb question- WHY DID YOU WAIT A YEAR TO COMPLAIN? Your original post says June of 2006 and this is late March of 2007.

[ORIENTEER]

Can I ask a dumb question- WHY DID YOU WAIT A YEAR TO COMPLAIN? Your original post says June of 2006 and this is late March of 2007.

 

Quote from above "I finally got a reply from the Federal Maritime Commission so I thought you might like to have an update...."

 

Orienteer/Spencer

[ORIENTEER]

.....As an exlawyer who worked in the consumer rights area quite some time I have always believed these cruise contracts were suspicious in that they rely on language and terms that the consumer has not even seen at the time the consumer pays money and becomes subject to the adhesive provisions of the contract. In many situations the deposit or full payment is made within the time frame that the customer can not cancel without a penalty. To back out after reading what the companys rights are, the consumer would still have to pay a penalty. Kind of unfair as I see things.

 

I was most grateful for your message annX. Good feedback & expertise.

Regards

Orienteer/Spencer

[ORIENTEER]

I have been bumped off a ship for a charter - but that cruise line gave me my money back, paid my airline change fees, any non refundable other charges AND put me on another cruise for free - AND gave me a 25% credit on the next cruise I booked with them. But then I had an agent who took my situation to the cruise line and worked with them on my specific situation. This cruise line and my agent proved to me that they were interested in my future business - and they got it. I have been on 7 others with that line since that time.

 

Wow! Glad to hear that your cruise line stepped up to the plate. Your agent certainly did a good job. That's obviously a good place to start - having a good agent who is willing to stand by their clients.

Regards

Orienteer/Spencer http://www.cruisebumping.ca