"Service charge" is coming to all NCL ships next year!!

[Globaliser]

[quote name='okiehorselover']She forgot about it and with a kid starting college in the fall, it was a tight squeeze for them to take the cruise.[/QUOTE]But surely she was expecting to have to tip the same amount - $10 per person per day?

It seems to me that it's a small step to take from a $10 pppd tip (always said to be expected - no surprises there) automatically added to the onboard account, to a $10 pppd service charge. Surely the only people who would be disadvantaged by the change are those who would (a) remove the auto-tip and then (b) not tip?[quote name='Zeno']Cheddarcheeseball: I am assuming your travelling experience in Europe has been rather limited. Having lived and worked in Europe (on the continent), I assure you that on continental Europe (as opposed to the British Isles), a service charge is very normal not the exception. In Britain the practice is less prevalent - one mainly finds service charges in upscale restaurants.[/QUOTE]Whereabouts on the Continent is this? I can remember very few service charges in France or Germany, the bulk of my personal experience - and I am over there a lot.

In the UK, if there is no service charge then a tip is usually expected - something in the order of 10%. But if there is a service charge, then no further tip is necessary or expected. (If the service charge is said to be discretionary, then it is - but that is largely for the beneficial tax consequences for the restaurant rather than any wholesale invitation to remove the charge from your bill.)

[kruzkupple]

Having read all of the comments on this thread, including the NCL quotes, let me see if I understand what will happen in May 2005 (and what is aready occurring on NCL's Hawaii fleet).

NCL will charge a flat-fee service charge of $10 per person per day (less for kids). To quote from the NCL website: "This is a fixed service charge and is not a gratuity and therefore is not adjustable". So far so good, except that I'd prefer that they had said "...a fixed service charge [i]in lieu of[/i] a gratuity...."
But now I'm nitpicking.

As I understand NCL's position as regards gratuities, they imply that their service personnel will henceforth be paid a salary which will match or exceed what the crewmembers are now receiving in salary plus tips. Accordingly, there will be no tipping envelopes given to passengers nor will NCL ask or recommend that waiters, cabin stewards, etc. be tipped. Further implied is that NCL's service personnel will go along with this plan.

If this be the case, I personally have no problem with this procedure whatsoever. While I'd rather that NCL simply add the $10 pp/pd to the cruise fare, I suppose that it really doesn't matter how they collect the fee. If the service personnel truly understand and agree to this change in policy, then I for one would happily pay the service charge and in addition give (as appropriate) reasonable gratuities to [i]deserving[/i] crewmembers.

Jack

[greedsmurf]

My wife got a spa treatment and got a 15% service charge to the bill. This is ok as it was expected. What was not expected is that they told her that this was not a tip and she ended up paying another 15% as gratuity. In my opinion, they are ripping off the passengers.

For those of you who have been cruising, did you ever notice that the sales crew, not the waiters and housekeeping, aren't very educated but just know their own little thing and know a lot about getting money out of you.

Example: on several cruises, the port consultant often mispronounces port cities and items that they are trying to sell. It's just sad. Actually its annoying. If you're selling the same thing week after week for months on end, at least learn how to pronounce what you're selling. Michi Pichi (Machu Picchu), Cervish (ceviche)..... If you miss it during the live presentation, catch it again in your stateroom on TV and walla (voila). And these guys are not from third world countries so they don't have an excuse.

[gardencat]

kruzkupple


The following are quotes from a post by FrmrPOAcrew on another thread:

[QUOTE]
[color=black]When i signed on in puerto rico i was told i would be making a salary of so much a month. That was fine until we reached dry dock and we turned union. So now i was paid hourly, wich is not too much more than minimum wage….[/color]



[color=black]They lied to all the passengers in a letter....It stated ....all NCL crew are paid salary." [/color][color=blue]Salary?...[/color]
[color=blue][color=black][font=Verdana]…and this service charge is looked on as a tip but we don't really see it[/font][/color][/color][color=black] [/color]




I think this gives some idea of the problem and where the present set up falls short of what you were hoping for :


[QUOTE] If the service personnel truly understand and agree to this change in policy, then I for one would happily pay the service charge and in addition give (as appropriate) reasonable gratuities to [i]deserving[/i] crewmembers.
[/QUOTE]I honestly don't know what caused this misunderstanding, poor communication or misinformation by NCL or slightly dumb crew who failed to understand what they were told, but it does seem to be a bit of a confusion now.

[cheddarcheeseball]

[quote name='Zeno']Cheddarcheeseball: I am assuming your travelling experience in Europe has been rather limited. Having lived and worked in Europe (on the continent), I assure you that on continental Europe (as opposed to the British Isles), a service charge is very normal not the exception. In Britain the practice is less prevalent - one mainly finds service charges in upscale restaurants.[/QUOTE]
You know what they say when people assume...my travel in Europe is hardly limited, I spend at least a month there every year. In fact, I just returned a few weeks ago, and in the many restuarants I ate in every day, had not one service charge applied to my check. I haven't been to the UK, but then again, I don't consider that to be Europe. You can assure me all you want, but I know that there is no service charge in France, Italy and Switzerland, unless you go to a restaurant with a "menu turistico" written in English. Then, you're going to pay a service charge (and not eat as well on top of it).

[shoreguy]

[quote name='kruzkupple']Having read all of the comments on this thread, including the NCL quotes, let me see if I understand what will happen in May 2005 (and what is aready occurring on NCL's Hawaii fleet).

NCL will charge a flat-fee service charge of $10 per person per day (less for kids). To quote from the NCL website: "This is a fixed service charge and is not a gratuity and therefore is not adjustable". So far so good, except that I'd prefer that they had said "...a fixed service charge [i]in lieu of[/i] a gratuity...."
But now I'm nitpicking.

As I understand NCL's position as regards gratuities, they imply that their service personnel will henceforth be paid a salary which will match or exceed what the crewmembers are now receiving in salary plus tips. Accordingly, there will be no tipping envelopes given to passengers nor will NCL ask or recommend that waiters, cabin stewards, etc. be tipped. Further implied is that NCL's service personnel will go along with this plan.

If this be the case, I personally have no problem with this procedure whatsoever. While I'd rather that NCL simply add the $10 pp/pd to the cruise fare, I suppose that it really doesn't matter how they collect the fee. If the service personnel truly understand and agree to this change in policy, then I for one would happily pay the service charge and in addition give (as appropriate) reasonable gratuities to [i]deserving[/i] crewmembers.

Jack[/QUOTE]


Great summary. It seems simple enough to those of us that have read and debated the fee for months.

It will be a bit of a shock to the average passenger that spends no time online, never reads their contract, has never cruised freestyle, and has traditionally put $50 dollars in an envelope at the end of a cruise.

Over time it will become old news or freestyle will collapse. I am sure that the number that found they could opt out has grown (perhaps for a valid reason and perhaps not)and the fixed charge is the only answer.

Putting it in the fare would make it simple but NCL can't be seen as the higher price in a market. The could do it on NCLA however. Most will not add the tips to the competitive fare to understand the total cost.

[albertiger]

I read the NCL statement also, understood it, think it is a logical alternative to tipping when subject to US law, have no problem with it and will extend an additional gratuity when warranted. i sometimes wonder if some members of this board should cruise more so as to keep them from posting here but knowing some, they would post from the ship and then complain about the charges! the business of business is to make money and how they do it is none of my business! if you dont agree with their policies try another line and btw, to the poster who mentioned Carnivals not charging extra for food....incorrect, their newer ships (Spirit class) have a $30 alternative dining charge. :eek:

[partyof3]

Do you realize how many people stiff the staff on tips. On most cruises I have been on I hear tablemates saying "i'm not leaving a tip because my dinner was cold one night" or "it took to long to get dinner" now I was at the same table and had the same service and left more then the "expected amount" Thumbs up to NCL for trying something new. Bottom line if it dosen't work they will loose passengers. They loose passengers then they will make changes in order to regain their lost passengers. They are in the business to make money. If people don't like the service they will stop booking with NCL. Result....less income. Result...NCL will have to rethink their policy. I would prefer to have the "service charge" added to my cruise fare but the truth of the matter is most people look at the cruise price and compare it to other lines. If they added this charge to the cruise fare then it would appear to the general public as wow they are a lot more expensive then line X and so they will book with line x rather then NCL. When I cruise I always keep a pocke t full of 1's and phone cards in my pocket. If a bar server goes out of his way to make my trip more enjoyable I will hand him or her a few $'s The next time I see them they are right there to service my needs. First day in the cabin I alwasy introduce myself to the steward and ask for a small favor such as a couple of extra towles. Slip them a few $'s and a calling card. Always had great service.

[Zeno]

[quote name='cheddarcheeseball']You know what they say when people assume...my travel in Europe is hardly limited, I spend at least a month there every year. In fact, I just returned a few weeks ago, and in the many restuarants I ate in every day, had not one service charge applied to my check. I haven't been to the UK, but then again, I don't consider that to be Europe. You can assure me all you want, but I know that there is no service charge in France, Italy and Switzerland, unless you go to a restaurant with a "menu turistico" written in English. Then, you're going to pay a service charge (and not eat as well on top of it).[/QUOTE]

Cheddarcheeseball:
Pardon me for doubting the superiority of your knowledge. After all I only LIVED AND WORKED in Europe (on the continent as I stated in my previous post not in the UK (although I have visited the UK)). Let me assure you that generally I ate in the same restaurants as my European co-workers. Many restaurants (the majority if memory serves me correctly) had "SERVIS COMPRIS" - a term you may be unfamiliar with since you are a visitor to Europe and perhaps not overly familiar with European customs. "SERVIS (or SERVICE ) COMPRIS " means you have been charged a SERVICE CHARGE and it is included in your bill total. (Sometimes it actually appears as a separate item on the bill - many tourists mistake it for a tax - so I can understand if you are confused.) You are NOT expected to tip on top of a bill with SERVIS COMPRIS (Although many people will leave leftover coins when they get change back). I do hope you have not been tipping 10%-15% in restaurants where "SERVIS COMPRIS" is the rule - although I am sure the waiters love it if you have. It is understandable if you have been confused by this. Many tourists (particularly those not familiar with local language and customs) find this confusing. When I was in restaurant in Firenze, a lovely American couple asked me to explain the various charges on the bill to them when they realized I spoke English. And I know when I first arrived in Europe, my co-workers had a few chuckles at my gaffes (and I spoke one of the local languages of the country).

[shoreguy]

Partyof3

My point better said. Freestyle can not servive if passengers opt out for little things. If you have a mojor probem take it up with management don't punish the crew as a whole.

We are talking about $10 dollars a day! Tell me where I can eat onshore a five corse meal and not tip that nearly much for just that meal. Forget about the cabin staff.

The question is does NCL's business plan even want those passengers that feel that is to much. They seem to be providing a low cost of entry, with lots of options to grow share of the passengers wallet. The good news is you get to decide when and where you spend your money onboard.

I have found I can budget $200 and eat in a specialty resturant every night and still have a great value. To eat that way and have it in the base cruise price I would have to book a ship costing 1000s more.

The passenger that opts out of the tip pool, brings their own booze to refill poolside, books no tours, and does not enjoy a night or two at a specialty resturant is not the passenger I believe NCL wants to fill the cabins.

If $10 causes someone to book another line that may in fact be good for the business and the passengers that do choose NCL. Time will tell.

[Globaliser]

[quote name='Zeno']Many restaurants (the majority if memory serves me correctly) had "SERVIS COMPRIS" - a term you may be unfamiliar with since you are a visitor to Europe and perhaps not overly familiar with European customs. "SERVIS (or SERVICE ) COMPRIS " means you have been charged a SERVICE CHARGE and it is included in your bill total. (Sometimes it actually appears as a separate item on the bill - many tourists mistake it for a tax - so I can understand if you are confused.) You are NOT expected to tip on top of a bill with SERVIS COMPRIS (Although many people will leave leftover coins when they get change back). I do hope you have not been tipping 10%-15% in restaurants where "SERVIS COMPRIS" is the rule - although I am sure the waiters love it if you have. It is understandable if you have been confused by this.[/QUOTE]Zeno, I think you owe cheddarcheeseball an apology for this.

A [U]service charge[/U] is where you are charged for the meal, and then an amount is separately added on to the bill (usually as a percentage of the bill) for service. In the UK, this is required by law to be stated on the menu, if charged - and I suspect that this is the case all over Europe by common EU regulation.

Servis compris is the common continental system which cheddarcheeseball and I described. There is [U]no[/U] service charge. The service element is "compris" ("included") in the amount charged by the restaurant. It is technically and substantively wrong to describe this as a service charge - it is in fact the exact opposite situation.

It is you who are wrong to describe this as a service charge.

cheddarcheeseball is perfectly aware that you don't have to tip extra in a "servis compris" situation. He said:-
[quote name='cheddarcheeseball']They do charge $1.50-$2.00 pp for bread, which they put on the table whether you ask for it or not, but [U]that is the extent of any tipping or service fee[/U][/QUOTE](underlining added)

[Zeno]

Uhm- Globalizer - my Belgian boss explained "servis compris" to me thusly: "You do not need to tip. There is a SERVICE CHARGE which is a percentage of the net bill - it is included in the bill total. It will go to the waiter" So perhaps we are merely arguing semantics here. The only difference that I see between an "included in the total" service charge (servis compris) and a more visible service charge (an item on the bill) is the way the bill is broken down. One is still being billed for service + the meal. The waiter gets a percentage of the bill total. Otherwise it would be 'servis non compris' and a tip would be appropriate. Oh and my boss used the exact term "SERVICE CHARGE" - so perhaps both he and I are confused as to the meaning of Service Charge. I interpret Service Charge as a percentage of the bill that will go to the server for service. Therefore to me that is a service fee.

[seahorse]

:eek:

Now I am totally confused:confused:

Let`s see If I have this straight; servis compri means tip is included? So I don`t have to tip extra except for the few coins after the tab? (In Europe)

SOooooooo the service charge on NCL is the $10.00 pp per day and that goes into the pot for everyone?

I am to tell my clients they don`t have to tip extra if they don`t want to. Correct? Except on their bar tab because that was always added extra before.

Correct me please if I am wrong, please.

[snoopy_leogirl]

Phew, interesting discussion but I think that lots of people will be disappointed to know that they are adding this service charge and implementing it on all of their ships.

[shoreguy]

[quote name='seahorse']:eek:

Now I am totally confused:confused:

Let`s see If I have this straight; servis compri means tip is included? So I don`t have to tip extra except for the few coins after the tab? (In Europe)

SOooooooo the service charge on NCL is the $10.00 pp per day and that goes into the pot for everyone?

I am to tell my clients they don`t have to tip extra if they don`t want to. Correct? Except on their bar tab because that was always added extra before.

Correct me please if I am wrong, please.[/QUOTE]

Seahorse

That's how I read it on the NCL site. In May 05 the auto tip goes to a fixed charge you can not opt out from. There will be a line on bar tabs for a tip. No auto 15%. No other tips are [U]required [/U] but I am sure accepted with a smile :)

[Zeno]

In Europe: Servis Compris means there is a service charge included in the bill total therefore a tip is not expected. (Most people will leave a few coins from their change). If the bill or menu says "servis non compris" then there has been NO service charge included in the bill and a tip would be appropriate.

NCL - can't speak for them but if I see "service charge" I don't tip (except for things like Room Service which I regard as an extra). It someone has really gone out of their way for me I might give them a little something.

[Globaliser]

[quote name='Zeno']Uhm- Globalizer - my Belgian boss explained "servis compris" to me thusly: "You do not need to tip. There is a SERVICE CHARGE which is a percentage of the net bill - it is included in the bill total. It will go to the waiter" So perhaps we are merely arguing semantics here.[/QUOTE]It was perfectly clear what cheddarcheeseball meant when you first jumped on this issue. I had said:-[quote name='Globaliser']In fact, in many European countries there is no service charge and no expectation of any sort of tip, because the service element is already fully included in the price of your meal.[/QUOTE]and cheddarcheeseball replied:-[quote name='cheddarcheeseball']Absolutely. I have never seen a service charge in Europe. They do charge $1.50-$2.00 pp for bread, which they put on the table whether you ask for it or not, but that is the extent of any tipping or service fee[/QUOTE]If that wasn't enough to describe "servis compris", I don't know what was. But you replied immediately after cheddarcheeseball's post, making an assumption that cheddarcheeseball's "travelling experience in Europe has been rather limited".

That's why I think an apology is in order, and that this is not just a question of semantics.[quote name='seahorse']Let`s see If I have this straight; servis compri means tip is included? So I don`t have to tip extra except for the few coins after the tab? (In Europe)[/QUOTE]Exactly.

Of course, when those who don't know the system then leave a large pile of cash behind in the mistaken assumption that they need to tip 15% or more on top of the "servis compris" price, that is always gladly hoovered up. Wouldn't you, in their place? But it's quite unnecessary and not expected.

[seahorse]

Thanks Jim, you long winded, rambler you :)

(You do get it? Or do you have her on ignore?)

[Globaliser]

[quote name='Zeno']In Europe: Servis Compris means there is a service charge included in the bill total therefore a tip is not expected. (Most people will leave a few coins from their change). If the bill or menu says "servis non compris" then there has been NO service charge included in the bill and a tip would be appropriate.[/QUOTE]I would rather say: "servis compris" means that the service element is included within the posted price and a tip is therefore not expected.

I agree about "servis no compris".

[Zeno]

I think you and I have interpreted Cheddarcheeseball's comments differently:
Cheddarcheeseball said: "I have never seen a service charge in Europe". I interpreted this to mean that she did not think that one is paying a service charge when "servis compris" is used. A service charge is a service charge whether "hidden" or not. So I think it is all semantics. This is my last comment on the subject.

[Globaliser]

[quote name='Zeno']I think you and I have interpreted Cheddarcheeseball's comments differently:
Cheddarcheeseball said: "I have never seen a service charge in Europe". I interpreted this to mean that she did not think that one is paying a service charge when "servis compris" is used. A service charge is a service charge whether "hidden" or not.[/QUOTE]So clearly you think I am wrong, too.

[gardencat]

Globaliser

[QUOTE]So clearly you think I am wrong, too.[/QUOTE]

I think it is more like, clearly Zeno is not willing to admit that cheddar might be right about anything.

[Zeno]

Interesting:
Rough Guides: " Service Compris S.C. means the service charge is included."
Info for Cannes Film Festival attendees: "Servis Compris means service or tip is included."
Alastair Sawday (British travel writer): "Almost all restaurants include a tax and a 15% service charge (service compris) in their prices"
Maye Musk (another writer): "The confusion about tipping is solved by the inclusion of 15% as a service charge in the total bill (servis compris)."

So maybe cheddar cheese never saw a service charge in Europe but she was paying them.

[ptngr]

[quote name='Markandrews']I think the NCL Public Relations Department is probably tired of all the fussing and complaining about every little trivial issue. I was informed of the $10 per day Resort fee before my final payment.[/QUOTE] You may have been informed of the fee before your final payment, but many (most?) passengers were not. We sure weren't. And I'm one of those obsessive people who scrutinize every little fine prints. The first time I heard about it was here. If it wasn't because of CC (which, sadly, I found out about after our final payment), the first time I would have heard anything about it would have been from my cruise docs, which arrived about 3 weeks before our cruise date. And to be clear, yes, they stated that there will be a service charge (that's what they call it in the cruise docs) but did not specifically state that it is non-adjustable. Many who are used to auto-tipping may very well assume it is just a different name for the same thing.
[quote name='Markandrews']If it is an issue for any potential cruiser they should probably book with another line.[/QUOTE] Easy for you to say since you had the choice. Many of us did not. Not to say that I would have canceled our booking (To tell the truth, we most likely wouldn't have.) but we really would have liked to have a choice. For someone else, it may have been enough for them not to book. My point is, this information should have been available at the time of booking, just like information on cancellation date and fee, required travel documents, etc.

[masterbaker]

I plan on calling NCL directly but would like your opinion (s) on if the cruise I have booked will have the service charge added. We sail on April 16, 2005 and disembark at our final port on May 3, 2005. Since May is when the service charge is supposed to go into effect for all ships, what do you think?
I'd just like to be prepared. :confused: