Don't Let Them Grind You Down

[2ladies]

Karyn - I bring up the Smith case, because like many others, I thought they were being very vindictive towards the cruiseline. I still don't think the cruiseline was at fault in its actual handling of the disappearance in Turkey. I believe they followed the proper procedures according to Turkish law. I am permitted to have my opinion surely, which I believe is similar to those which have been aired many times on these boards.

 

However, I now understand the hostility they have shown towards RCCL, as according to them, they were given the run-around by customer services. I have found this to be unbelievably frustrating - and in the case of a loss of a family member, however it happened, it must have felt devastating.

 

Interestingly, if you look at the Princess site, you will see that an elderly couple were put off the ship in Turkey for medical reasons. The ship's decision was probably correct - it was just the way it was done!! I was also totally amazed that the woman passenger was allocated someone to help her pack the luggage and then charged $200 for her services!! I don't think the cruiselines are handling things too well at the moment.:confused:

 

I think the industry has grown so big in such a short space of time, that they have lost sight of the wonderful personal touch that used to epitomise the cruising experience. Especially in their landbased operations.

[judyjbest]

2Ladies: I'm glad you're persevering. Sometimes all the cruiselines get stuck in "rules" mode and lose all common sense, requiring their customers ... whether they are the TA or the cruise guests ... to press on until they find a sensible person to hear their story. Yes, being on hold is part of the issue. But, nothing feels better than finally getting someone to listen, agree that it's ridiculous, and yes, it even takes more time then, but finally it gets solved. I hope your solution is almost here.

 

While the problem started at Celebrity, your TA should have handled this for you to resolution. That's the TA's job. She should not have given up and tossed it in your lap. You deserve better there, too. So, choose wisely when booking next time.

 

Have a great cruise, and bring a report back!

[2ladies]

Thanks for your support Judy.

 

As far as my TA is concerned, suffice it to say that my recent reservation on the Navigator was directly with RCCL. Had I been permitted to confirm my acceptance of the transfer with Celebrity direct, none of this would have taken place, as I 'phoned them immediately it came back on line!!

[2ladies]

Peaceful? When I get on that dam (sorry wrong line!) ship, first thing I do is go below and pull the plug!!:D

 

Seriously, it's really giving my brain a good workout!!

 

HurricaneSally seems to have become a mere breeze!! ;) Posts like that are really counterproductive - very selfish also!! No-one is forcing her to read anything!! However, I have to admit I was warned that she would probably turn up!!

 

I am also finding the comments (most) informative - and I can only hope that if Celebrity personnel are monitoring this thread, that they take the information 'on board':rolleyes: and try to rectify their mistakes in handling problems.

 

In actual fact, I think these threads are very valuable to the Cruise Lines - after all, its cheaper than surveys from Market Research Companies!!

[lkb125]

I have written a very factual letter. I did have some assistance - you know who you are!! I am a happy bunny for most of the time anyway!! I am sure Lorelle and Warren will attest to this fact!! My training is to persevere - that doesn't make me an angry person. I am more of a socially conscious animal - just hoping that this will make a difference

and convince the Company that their customer relations department must improve their handling of complaints.

 

I don't want anything for nothing!! Just what I should have received in the first place - the proper pricing which should happen with a transfer and the promised shipboard credit which everyone else received. If I received the cost of the 'phone calls from the UK to the US, this would show some goodwill on the part of RCCL!!

 

What do I want? A nice apologetic letter confirming the above!! A free ship would be nice - not gonna happen:D.

 

In fact, it is all probably going to cost me considerably more anyway!! I have lost my taste for this cruise, so I am now holding a reservation for the Navigator a day later also!! This has gone up considerably since the problems with the Connie - but that's how the cookie crumbles!!

 

Hopefully, the Connie problem will all be sorted out - maybe when all this dust dies down, we may regain our enthusiasm for Celebrity!! Hmm......

 

Lorelle - what can I say about your cruise? If it follows the same line as ours, the cruise either ain't gonna happen or the dates will change!! However, if you are working through a Travel Agent, make sure you keep your finger on the button when it comes to compensation or different dates. Watch the RCCL site every day!!

We are keeping on top of this situation. I have been sailing for quite a while and this seems to be something new. My transatlantic cruise is supposedly on condition "red" I have never heard that term before. On another post I saw someone asking " just tell us the truth" and we will cope and make plans accordingly, I really agree. Good luck Roz hope to see you and your Mother on another cruise. Lorelle

[rebeccalouise]

When it comes to letter writing, you win some you lose some. I traveled on Southwest one time and had a problem in Denver. I wrote a letter and was refunded $600 by check (the cost of all three of my tickets). I continue to fly Southwest and probably would have even without the refund- but I still tell people how much I love Southwest and they no longer use the rude company that they subcontracted out of Denver. So maybe my letter helped future passengers as well.

I wrote another letter to Alamo's parent company in August -over a problem I had and have yet to hear anything. Maybe I will. If I don't- with all the car companies out there- I probably would pick another. If I do get a letter and/or some compensation- I probably would use them again.

Busniesses should care and respond to letters of complaint because it restores one's good feeling about the company.

[2ladies]

rebeccalouise - you are so right!

 

I may not win the war, but I may win a few battles here by encouraging people to complain if they are treated without respect by the big Corporations!!

 

Fortunately, my problem is only about money - imagine if it were a really serious situation and they blew you off!!? I know that Celebrity monitors these boards - I am hoping they will start looking seriously at how to investigate complaints. My problem is that I am sure this was never investigated - easier to say 'no - go away!:confused:

[templed]

hi 2ladies...

 

I've been reading this and your other thread...

 

And I keep coming back to the same conclusion in my head... your TA screwed up... That's my opinion... plain and simple, agree with me or not... That's what I read into this.

 

Everything after that fact is unfortunate.... but it goes back to the original problem...

 

Listen... Rick and I were both booked on the 4/13 sailing that mysteriously dissapeared... I saw the writing on the wall, after speaking with Celebrity and speaking with my TA... and I bailed, and re-booked... it takes a balance of being active with your own reservation, and a good TA...

 

Honestly... from day one of this problem... your TA, NOT you... should have been fighting tooth and nail for you... not simply throughing their hands up in the air and giving you "rights to speak with them on all levels..." That was their way of saying... "I'm done with you"...

 

This is the TA's fault... not X's... everything after, while it would be nice if X would be easier to deal with... but I'd be screaming at the TA... not X.

[2ladies]

You could well be right - who knows? However, the fact remains that she was told to wait for a fax. I believe her 'cos I was told the same thing!! And I WAS transferred!! She says she did it in a timely fashion. She just doesn't understand why it wasn't done at the right price!!

 

The mystery is that Celebrity refuse to discuss it or give me the date of the fax they sent out!! Now I have permission to act on her behalf - they should tell me the date. Nor will they confirm the price changes on line - say they don't have the info. Huh?

 

In any case, they apparently only gave the TA's two days to contact their clients - what if their clients were away? They hold deposits for five months and give people two days? Nor will they tell me what price they were offering for the change. I know the price which was on the computer, but they refuse to confirm or deny!!

 

I have the same reservation number - why should I rebook? We both gave permission for the reservation to continue!! Why should it not continue at the price on the changeover date?

 

The way I was treated on the 'phone was simply disgusting!! You will see from other posts that I am not the only one to receive the "Celebrity Treatment"!! I am afraid that nowadays educated people simply do not accept this kind of treatment.

 

I was watching the change. I TRUSTED Celebrity to do the right thing - they didn't!! You rebooked etc - well, YOU obviously didn't trust them either!!

 

This doesn't say much for Celebrity does it? They should be looking after people who are loyal to their brand!! Anyway, as I said before, the TA's are their 'valued travel partners'!! Well, if your partner screws-up you are liable - that's a partnership!!! There is obviously some sort of cover-up - otherwise why not give me the info I request?!!

 

No-one should blame the poor TA - who knows if she messed up??!!

 

Celebrity have just clammed-up and won't give any info which might put the blame on her, as I am dispensable - they would rather keep good relations with the TA!!

 

As I said, a nice gentleman did 'phone me from Celebrity - let's see if he can arrange a satisfactory resolution. The first person in many 'phone calls who actually apoligised for our inconvenience. After all, I am losing two weeks of my hols and missing a friends wedding!!

[lkb125]

You could well be right - who knows? However, the fact remains that she was told to wait for a fax. I believe her 'cos I was told the same thing!! And I WAS transferred!! She says she did it in a timely fashion. She just doesn't understand why it wasn't done at the right price!!

 

The mystery is that Celebrity refuse to discuss it or give me the date of the fax they sent out!! Now I have permission to act on her behalf - they should tell me the date. Nor will they confirm the price changes on line - say they don't have the info. Huh?

 

In any case, they apparently only gave the TA's two days to contact their clients - what if their clients were away? They hold deposits for five months and give people two days? Nor will they tell me what price they were offering for the change. I know the price which was on the computer, but they refuse to confirm or deny!!

 

I have the same reservation number - why should I rebook? We both gave permission for the reservation to continue!! Why should it not continue at the price on the changeover date?

 

The way I was treated on the 'phone was simply disgusting!! You will see from other posts that I am not the only one to receive the "Celebrity Treatment"!! I am afraid that nowadays educated people simply do not accept this kind of treatment.

 

I was watching the change. I TRUSTED Celebrity to do the right thing - they didn't!! You rebooked etc - well, YOU obviously didn't trust them either!!

 

This doesn't say much for Celebrity does it? They should be looking after people who are loyal to their brand!! Anyway, as I said before, the TA's are their 'valued travel partners'!! Well, if your partner screws-up you are liable - that's a partnership!!! There is obviously some sort of cover-up - otherwise why not give me the info I request?!!

 

No-one should blame the poor TA - who knows if she messed up??!!

 

Celebrity have just clammed-up and won't give any info which might put the blame on her, as I am dispensable - they would rather keep good relations with the TA!!

 

As I said, a nice gentleman did 'phone me from Celebrity - let's see if he can arrange a satisfactory resolution. The first person in many 'phone calls who actually apoligised for our inconvenience. After all, I am losing two weeks of my hols and missing a friends wedding!!

Please let us know how it turns out Roz can't wait for the conclusion. Lorelle

[2ladies]

Will keep you posted!!

[Andy]

hi 2ladies...

 

I've been reading this and your other thread...

 

And I keep coming back to the same conclusion in my head... your TA screwed up... That's my opinion... plain and simple, agree with me or not... That's what I read into this.

 

Everything after that fact is unfortunate.... but it goes back to the original problem...

 

Listen... Rick and I were both booked on the 4/13 sailing that mysteriously dissapeared... I saw the writing on the wall, after speaking with Celebrity and speaking with my TA... and I bailed, and re-booked... it takes a balance of being active with your own reservation, and a good TA...

 

Honestly... from day one of this problem... your TA, NOT you... should have been fighting tooth and nail for you... not simply throughing their hands up in the air and giving you "rights to speak with them on all levels..." That was their way of saying... "I'm done with you"...

 

This is the TA's fault... not X's... everything after, while it would be nice if X would be easier to deal with... but I'd be screaming at the TA... not X.

 

I agree with your comments Dave. I was on the same 4/13/07 sailing. Hopefully, most of you will recall that I was quite vocal on here, when all of this was going on. When the actual details FINALLY were announced by Celebrity, I spoke with my TA, discussed our options, and we made the appropriate changes. We wound up moving our bookings over to the 3/23/07 Constellation sailing, so all is well with us.

 

While I totally agree that Celebrity could have handled this better, and kept us more informed.... at the end of the day, everything worked out ok for us. However, we did have a ton of stress as all of this was unfolding.

 

2ladies... I wish you all the very best, and I hope you can get some sort of favorable resolution with your situation.

[2ladies]

Andy - thanks!!

 

As it happens, regardless of the outcome, I think there is something intrinsically wrong with the process. Surely all bookings should be transferred to a new sailing at a stated price, and held until cancelled or confirmed!! If not cancelled or confirmed within say two weeks for cruises in the distant future, then the TA should be contacted once again. After all, they are holding deposits for months earning interest!! I haven't actually seen the fax which is sent to TAs and don't know how they contact pax who booked direct, but it does all seem a little haphazard!! If a fax goes astray or you are away on holiday - your booking is down the drain!

 

Anyway, when all's said and done, my anger and indignation is at the fact that they have been extremely unhelpful to the point of obstructive and rude!! They won't allow me to find out whether it was my TA's fault!! Obviously mustn't offend TA's - after all, what's one passenger matter?! There is a principle involved here - and Celebrity is NOT stepping up to the plate!!

[templed]

I speak to my TA quite regularly... and I hear him say this phrase a lot...

 

"I'll call back again to see if I can get a more helpful person next time"

 

That's the sad fact with Customer service centers these days... Sometimes you get a gem... sometimes you get a turd... it really just depend on which trunk your call gets switched to...

 

Keep in mind... that this is RCI's customer service... and while the regular service you get while cruising on Celebrity is NOT the same people you get while speaking with the folks on land...

 

Case in point... my mother in law was sailing on Summit last spring... through no one's fault but her own... she forgot her photo ID ... (how she got on a plane is another story....)... I tried to head the whole scene off in the morning, while she was in flight to LA from NYC... speaking to various CS reps throughout RCI... checking and cross checkin that they recieved the emails, scans, etc. from me... long story short... not until the CREW of the ship got involved did we get the service we needed to get the whole thing straight...

 

(she had a wonderful trip from there in btw.... )

 

I do agree with you in the sense that the Customer service aspect of this is travesty.... but... your TA should have fought more for you...

[judyjbest]

Rick, Temple, and Andy: That's what I was trying to say, too, only in a more subtle manner. If you're booked with a TA, doesn't matter if they messed up or the cruise lines messed up, it's their job to fix it for you. She's earning commission on your sailing, whether you get this resolved or not. Why isn't she doing this fighting? Because she already has her piece of the pie. And, that's from another TA ... me.

[2ladies]

Listen up guys - I totally agree!! However, TA's only act as agent for the cruise line. They earn a small percentage!! The cruiseline takes most of my money - between the two of them, I am losing the dosh!! Now this is my opportunity to use my very fave American expression ...... wait for it.....

 

"wot am I? Chopped liver?" (You can guess - I am not American!).:D

 

We spend a lot of money with the cruise line and I expect them to handle problems, when they occur, gracefully and with the interests of their customer at heart. Regardless of travel agents etc. I am buying their product!! And they haven't, we all seem to agree, handled their product very well in this case!! The TA is acting as THEIR agent and valued? travel partner. Which is why I can't fire her!!

 

I can't force the travel agent to give up my bookings apparently either. I would have to cancel all my reservations to get rid of her and then rebook. Then I would lose all my carefully chosen cabins and early booking discounts!!

 

Another point has occurred to me. Am I the only person affected like this? Probably not!!! The big majority of pax are NOT on cruisecritic and probably haven't been in on all the problems!! They wouldn't know which price they had received anyway!! The price has been changing rapidly!!

 

At the end of the day, I am being stitched up by BOTH of them!! Celebrity most of all I think, as they refuse to give me any details of the transaction, thus preventing me from sorting it out with the Travel Agent!! Why? Because she is THEIR agent! Or is she? Can't act for both under the law - or can she?

 

Point of fact - the CRUISELINE takes my creditcard deposit and payment, not the Agent, the agent is reimbursed commission by the cruiseline. So the agent must work for the cruiseline and not me!????? Do I have that right? Or not??

 

All very interesting I think. Neither of them seem to be acting in good faith in my case, which I think is very sad!! Anyway, at the end of the day, its the principle involved here. Fortunately, not much money involved. However, my faith in Celebrity is severely shaken - their treatment of my problem has been most unsatisfactory.

 

I think Celebrity are missing something else here - or possibly not!! Discounting is no longer permitted by RCCL/Celebrity. So the only advantage of using a TA is to receive a service. Since I have not received such service, I will in future book directly with the Cruiseline. Thus the cruiseline saves the commission!! Hmm........ Is it in Celebrity's best interest that I am disillusioned with travel agents?

[rebeccalouise]

Write a letter to Celebrity headquarters in Florida.

 

Start it with...

I have cruised on Celebrity ____ times in the past and up until now it has been my favorite cruise line.

Then explain what happened- very clearly and concisely.

 

Remember you get more with honey than you do vinegar.

 

I would be surprized if you don't get anything from Celebrity. So far I have not had any bad experiences with the line and I do think that they care about repeat business and overall customer satisfaction.

[tbelian]

Point of fact - the CRUISELINE takes my creditcard deposit and payment, not the Agent, the agent is reimbursed commission by the cruiseline. So the agent must work for the cruiseline and not me!????? Do I have that right? Or not??

 

If your TA only books Celebrity cruises, or one particular cruise line, then I suppose you could say the TA works for the cruise line.

 

I have not heard of a TA who exclusively books one cruise line. In my opinion, no, you do not have it right. In my opinion the agent works for you.

 

[Sky Sweet]

If your TA only books Celebrity cruises, or one particular cruise line, then I suppose you could say the TA works for the cruise line.

 

I have not heard of a TA who exclusively books one cruise line. In my opinion, no, you do not have it right. In my opinion the agent works for you.

 

[/left]

 

This is an interesting topic that has been discussed before. A TA who worked just for Celebrity, for all practical purposes, would be an employee of the cruise line. If TA's utilized the laws of agency the way real estate broker's do, the cruise line would be the TA's client, because they are the ones who are paying the TA's commission, which is their source of income. However, since several travel agents on cruise critic in the past have insisted that the cruise line is not their client, I will defer to their inside knowledge and assume that laws of agency are different for the travel business than other businesses that involve an agency relationship.

[templed]

I would consider a TA as a broker for a cruise line...

 

Brokers are not bound to one specific product... but will generate a commission through the sale of a product...

 

It is not in the best interest of a broker to stick with one product, unless they are getting a better commission from that one product, over another...

[2ladies]

So interesting - what about the customer? My money goes directly from my Credit Card to Celebrity. I don't pay the TA to act on my behalf. The cruiseline appears to pay the TA to act on their behalf!! And that's why I am now left out in the cold. In fact, the cruiseline told me that they cannot speak with me 'cos their contract is with the TA!!

 

In fact, when things go wrong, the cruiselines are only too quick to point out that we have signed a contract with THEM!! Is this a case of having your cake and eating it? I am their customer only when it suits them!!

 

In fact, now I think about it, I have only signed a contract with the cruiseline and not with the travel agent!!

 

I bet that this is a subject which has not yet occurred to the RitaGretas!!

 

I have written a letter to the Cruiseline - it contained only facts and no threats! I may well put my letter on this site at a later stage. I just want to be fair and give them the opportunity to respond.

 

I repeat - mistakes happen, its how you deal with them!!

 

I know if I ran a Corporation this large, if a Client 'phoned three times and was upset, from then on it would be dealt with on a totally different basis. Much more professional handling of customers is required. And it would be less time consuming for the cruiseline in the long run!!

 

I am really extremely grateful to everyone for their input (except Hurricane Sally of course!:D ). If it is not settled by the time I return to Florida, I will pay a visit to their offices in Miami. I am sure Mr. Fain will invite us, his fave cruisers, to lunch - but, maybe not!!! Still, joking apart, maybe a visit would be beneficial.

 

So, guys, anyone experienced in Contract Law?

[tbelian]

I don't pay the TA to act on my behalf.

 

Who buys the cruise? You do. Indirectly, that is how the TA gets paid. If you dont book the cruise through them they would not get paid. Viscious circle? Perhaps. But, you picked the TA didn't you? Or did you ask Celebrity 'Hey which TA should I use?' , and they gave you the contact information?

[cruiser2004]

2ladies, I guess your whole problem of having your cruise date changed and being asked to pay more than you had contracted for is all your fault, because you may have selected the wrong travel agent and has nothing to do with Celebrity. My own experience has been that Celebrity customer service can and does deal directly with passenger requests, when they want to, who are booked through a TA. Not to excuse your TA, but from my experience I can well understand your TA's frustration in trying to right a wrong when dealing with Celebrity customer service.

[2ladies]

Surely the cruise line only deals with approved TAs - or do they? Do they enter into a contract with just any Agent regardless of whether they know anything about them?

 

THEY refer to the TAs as their 'Valued Travel Partners'. I am now left wondering contractually, where I stand. My money went directly to Celebrity. I have entered into a contract with Celebrity. Yet they have no responsibility toward me. Huh?!!

 

No wonder they say the law is an ass!!! But just maybe, it isn't!!

 

Actually, I think this really should be looked at in much more depth. After all, the cruiseline has entered into a contract with the TA, but I have not. My contract is with the cruiseline - at their insistance!!!

 

Surely it could be construed that the TA is acting as agent for the cruiseline. Anyone know whether this has ever been contested or is there any precedence?

 

It certainly is a vicious circle - and yet again, the consumer suffers!!

 

I most certainly will not let this rest - frankly, the longer it goes on and the more I learn, the less confidence I have in these arrangements with Travel Agents.

[templed]

The one thing about the cruise contract... is that is heavily favored on the cruiseline's side...

 

if you look at the language of it... you'd thing that they basically own one of your minor appendages or two... if you invalidate the contract...

 

Plus there is a lot of language in there about the cruiseline's right to revoke / change the contract at any time...

 

Is it in the best interest for the cruise line to enforce the contract to the letter of the law??? no... but the language is in their favor.. not ours...