Digital camera questions.

[Travelbug 2]

This is to all the digital camera buffs out there. I am considering buying a digital camera to use on our upcoming cruise in Oct to the Med' and though I have gathered a lot of info' from the internet I would appreciate comments from experienced users.

 

My choice at the moment is an entry level 3 mpx Olympus Camedia 575 zoom.

 

Questions-------will a 128 mb picture card be enough? What battery system should I use? What spare cards and batteries should I take (if any). I have not used a digital before and would appreciate any help and advise.

 

Thank you and happy cruising.

 

Travelbug 2

 

Ryndam ---Sept 2003

Noordam---Oct 2004

[iluvcruzin]

I use a different camera (Kodak digital share) and use the rechargeable batteries. I have 4 of them and let them charge overnight and never have a problem. As far as memory card, I use 256mb to ensure I have enough space. I take approx. 150 high quality pics and maybe 3 or 4 quicktime videos and have not run out of memory.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

 

We take 2 extra sets of rechargeable batteries - you might need them if you take all day tours - better to be safe than sorry.

 

Strongly recommend that you buy another 128 mb chip. You will be surprised how quickly the memory will be used up. Remember that as soon as the memory is used up, you will come across the best picture of your cruise.

 

On short cruises, we take two 64 mb chips, and one 256 mb chip as a back up.

 

On longer cruises, we take everything.

 

Enjoy your new toy.

 

:)

[jhannah]

The DW and I each have Sony Cyber-Shots (different models) and love them. A well-known consumer reporting magazine rates the Canon Sure Shot very highly. Don't recall their take on Olympus.

 

I agree with taking as much memory as you can. Prices are so very reasonable now compared with just a couple of years ago. You can never have too much memory.

 

Also, the rechargeable battery route will save you money in the long run. Just remember to have at least two sets, and don't forget to take the recharger (if your camera won't recharge them internally.)

 

You will truly enjoy digital. You know instantly if you have the shot you wanted. How many times have we been disappointed to get home and see the shot we really thought was going to be fantastic ruined by someone's head that we didn't see while shooting. With digital, you can know before you step away that you have it just to your liking.

[BCEagle78]

Regarding memory usage:

 

I have Sony also... it is a great, versatile, compact camera... one of my best investments.

 

If you happen to bring a laptop computer, you can get away with downloading the pictures as needed so you can reuse your camera memory. I have done this on a couple of cruises because I had to keep in touch with the office while on the cruise (I know... yuk... but that's the way it is), so I drag my office laptop along.

 

If you don't have a computer with you, I recommend that you plan ahead. If you know how much memory capacity you have and have decided on a resolution setting, you can quickly calculate how many pictures you can hold.

 

Keep in mind, the number of pictures that you will want to keep will be less than what you take. If you carefully review the pictures that you have taken, you may find that you can recover some capacity by frequently reviewing you pictures and deleting the pictures you don't want.

 

I have gotten away with a 10 day cruise with a 256MB and 2 64MB memory cards when I have not had my laptop to download.

 

Hope this helps.

[Jacqueline]

Will the photo center burn a CD ? some other cruiselines will from the memory card...

[RevNeal]

My choice at the moment is an entry level 3 mpx Olympus Camedia 575 zoom.

 

That's a good choice for an entry-level camera. You will be able to take photo-quality pictures with it. I would certainly not purchase anything less than 3 megapixels ... not with the prices being as low a they are right now.

 

My old camera -- the one with which I took most of the photos at the below-link -- is an Olympus C-2020z, which has a superior lens but a smaller megapixel (2.3 effective). I bought it brand new back in Jan 2000 and it has been a FANTASTIC camera; 5x7s turn out GREAT on glossy photograph paper. For my next cruise I've recently purchased an Olympus C-5060, which is a 5mpx semi-SLR with wide angle-zoom and the ability to use additional lenses (telephoto, zoom, filters, etc). It takes INCREDIBLE photographs. It and the somewhat less expensive 5050 are probably more expensive than you would want or need, so the D-575 Zoom is an excellent entry-level choice.

 

Questions-------will a 128 mb picture card be enough? What battery system should I use? What spare cards and batteries should I take (if any). I have not used a digital before and would appreciate any help and advise.

 

What is the length of the cruise, and will you be downloading pictures from the camera to a lap top during the cruise? Regardless, I would pick up an additional 256 MB XD picturecard. One of the advantages to digital cameras is a great freedom to take as many photos as one wants to get THE right one(s). I take a GREAT number of shots, and then only select (and keep) maybe 30% of them. To do this you will need sufficient memory ... hence, a 256 MB card is a must. If it's a long enough cruise, you might want to take even more memory storage.

 

For good, photo-quality images at standard portrait print size I would not take photos at anything smaller than 1600x1200 (SQ1). That would give you about 515 shots on a 256 MB XDPicturecard. You camera WILL take up to a 512 MB XDPicturecard, so if you don't mind the expense that would be another way to go.

 

Your camera can take 2 x AA NiMH rechargeable batteries. I would buy a charger (Best buy has 'em) and an extra couple or 4 batteries, just so that you always have a set in your camera and a freshly charged set to swap in if your batteries run low.

 

Please feel free to Email if you have other questions!

[superstein61]

most people will not need anything more than a 3 megapixel camera. This will allow you to make clear enlargements up to 8x10" in size. Unless you plan to make enlargements greater than that (most folks do not) , you will be fine with a 3 megapixel camera.

 

Instead of extra megapixels, I would spend my money making sure the camera has around a 3x or greater optical zoom (Not digital zoom - but optical as digital can distort the picture).

 

I would also invest in a couple good sets of rechargeable batteries. It will pay for itself in the long run as digital camera's are power hogs.

 

FInally, I suggest purchasing two 256MB chips if you can. You can take many more pictures without worry and sort them all out later when you come home.

 

I personally create moving photo slideshows out of my pictures adding in music with a very reasonable product from Microsoft called Microsoft Plus Photo Story. No need to print out the pictures - instead I create a CD with them all creating the story and its a lot more fun to watch and share with friends.

 

here are some links you may want to check out:

 

great reviews of most digital camera's:

 

http://www.steves-digicams.com/

 

the site for rechargeable batteries:

 

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/

 

Check out a trial version of Microsoft Plus Photo Story and some finished samples created by Photo Story::

 

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/plus/dme/try.asp

[Nebraska Admiral]

I agree with revneal. An olympus is a good camera as well as others. I bought my second digital camera a year ago its a 3,0 mp its an olympus D560 Zoom with 2 256 cards. The cars can be bought at SAMS Club for $75 for 256. The bigest power hog is the playback or download. This camera has a regular viewfinder that allows you to take pictures without using the screen. I have taken over 500 shots on a single charge. I would suggest that whatever camera you buy. buy a card reader for about $20 It saves a lot on batteries. Happy hunting.

[Ellya]

I agree that 3 megapixels is the lowest acceptable in today's market. If you find a good deal, you might consider a 4 megapixel. Another good point was made regarding optical vs. digital zoom. Digital zoom does nothing for you in that you can get the same effect at home on your computer by simply cropping the part of the picture you want (that is what the camera is doing). Unfortunately when you enlarge it there will be a great loss of quality. Optical zoom is the only zoom that matters. Get as much of that as you can afford. Bring a set of rechargeable batteries to keep charging and try to avoid using the screen to take pictures with. The screens make it harder to actually take the picture (easier through the viewfinder) and really consume batteries.

[Travelbug 2]

Thanks a lot everyone, your suggestions and ideas are very helpful. Looks like a 256 picture card is the way to go along with rechargable batteries. Prices here in Canada vary a lot so I will do some shopping around, Sams Club is Wall Mart isnt it? We have Wall Mart but not Sams club. I will not be taking a lap top on board so will have no way to download unless there are facilities on the NOORDAM to burn a disc, anyone know about that? Re the card reader suggested, the Olympus camera has a direct USB connection to hook into a computer to download. Is this a battery eater? Would a card reader be useful anyway? So many questions in this high tec' world that we live in.

 

Travelbug 2

[scluvsrain]

Maybe I've "missed the boat", but I have better luck with regular AA batteries in my Olympus Camedia digital camera. I tried the rechargeables but they don't seem to last as long and I always have one more thing to drag along and have to plug in. I buy a big pack of AAs at Costco and usually only run through one changeover while on vacation. That's my 2 cents.

[TedC]

Thanks for all the great information and thanks to Travelbug for asking the question.

 

I'm in the market for my first digital for our next cruise, Barcelona to FLL on the Westerdam in Nov. I have spent too much time worrying if the airport x-rays will spoil my film. (They have in the past).

 

On our last cruise I had 12 rolls developed on board. They did an excellent job. But I still think it is time to go digital.

 

Thanks again!

[Travelbug 2]

Maybe I've "missed the boat", but I have better luck with regular AA batteries in my Olympus Camedia digital camera. I tried the rechargeables but they don't seem to last as long and I always have one more thing to drag along and have to plug in. I buy a big pack of AAs at Costco and usually only run through one changeover while on vacation. That's my 2 cents.

 

What model is your camera? How often do you use the LCD screen? People I have spoken to seem to think that regular AA batteries last no time at all but you are happy going that route and it obviously works for you. Anyone else using regular AAs? Does the camera give a warning when batteries are getting low or does it just shut down?

 

Thanks for all the imput-------

 

Travelbug 2

[superstein61]

To answer a couple followup questions:

 

1. I do have a card reader - (mine is a 6 in one reader that reads all common memory cards). But I do not believe it is a necessity. I purchased it because I found a deal to get it after rebate for about $9.99 It does make reading cards from my digital camera (A Samsung Digimax), an old digital camera I gave to my 10 year old to use (beats her burining up film), and my Digital Video Recorder - all 3 of which use different recording mediums. So its convenience was important to me.

 

But if you just have the camera - most will come with an AC adaptor - which you can plug in when uploading pix from your camera to your PC - and save on battery wear.

 

2. As to batteries - here is a very good article comparing various AA rechargeables:

 

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM

 

as well as an articel on batteries in general:

 

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ARTS/CHARGE/CHARGE.HTM

 

and from that same site, a decent getting started article on what to look for (most of which has been covered here - but this goes into more detail):

 

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ARTS/BUY/BUY.HTM

[ilovhywd]

I also have the Olympus Camedia D560 and I was tempted to throw it overboard on my recent cruise.

 

I originally bought Camedia battery charger and Camedia AA rechargeable batteries. I was getting only 5 or 6 photos on each set of batteries so I sent the camera back to Olympus a few months ago and they said they "fixed it." Took it on recent cruise and still got only 5 or 6 photos per battery change. I know that digital cameras are battery hogs when you use the LCD display and review your photos, but this was ridiculous. I tried a different brand charger, a different brand of rechargeable batteries and regular AA batteries but still had the same problem.

 

I mentioned my problem to the guys who ran the photo gallery on the Westerdam and they urged me to buy the Kodak AA batteries which say on the package that they are for digital cameras. I bought them immediately and they lasted for an entire day. I was so thrilled.

 

Even though these batteries were a big improvement, I still think that the camera should work with the rechargeable batteries.

 

From your experience with the D560, do you think my camera is defective?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

I'm very tempted to send it back to Olympus again and demand a replacement.

 

Thanks,

 

Ilene

[dougnewmanatsea]

I probably shouldn't wade into this discussion at all but I will anyway, because I can't resist it. Hopefully I will manage to emerge without confusing and/or boing you out of your collective minds.

 

The D-575 appears to be a very new model - in fact while it is indeed on Olympus' web site, the various camera reviews sites I read don't seem to have even acknowledged its existance, let alone reviewed it.

 

On pixels - 3 megapixel is more than enough. 2MP is plenty too. Most people think that the most important statistic about a digital camera is the number of pixels. This is nonsense. There are dozens of more important things than pixels. I have seen 2MP cameras that take great images, and some 14MP cameras that take images that are awful. It's true that everyone acts like pixels are THE important thing about a digital camera - in stores they're grouped by them, in magazines they're tested against ones with the same number, etc. In reality it doesn't mean that much. Choosing your camera by the number of pixels is like buying a car based on how many horsepower it has. Pixel count simply means much less than you would think.

 

I would recommend that, as the camera you're looking at seems to take AA batteries, you use NiMH rechargeable batteries and buy at least one spare set. I have relatively limited experience with Olympus' consumer level digital cameras but the one I've owned (the C-2100 UZ, a camera from a few years back; I just replaced it with the E-1 digital SLR which is a whole different animal from the consumer-level cameras we're discussing here) came with a set and an excellent fast charger. However according to Olympus America the 575 comes with two AA alkaline batteries which indicates that the camera uses only two AA batteries, which means that your usual set of four batteries and a charger is really two sets. If you go with non-rechargeable batteries, I'd spring for the pricey CR-V3 lithium batteries (the camera will take only one of these; it's the size of two AA batteries) as those last much longer than alkalines and cost less in the long run.

 

On the memory card front, the camera seems to come with a 16MB memory card. This is utter silliness as with a modern digital camera you will only get a few photos on that card at a high quality setting. A 128MB card will hold only about 48 photos at the best quality level. At full resolution (you always want to use full resolution) but a higher compression setting (lower quality) you should be able to store roughly 160 photos on that size card. At any rate, you probably want a bigger card, or more than one of them.

 

Here we come to the big drawback of this and most other current Olympus consumer cameras: they use a memory card format called xD Picture Card. Most digital cameras, and all professional digital cameras, use something called CompactFlash. Way back in the early days of digital cameras, Toshiba, Olympus and Fuji set up a rival to CF called SmartMedia, which could be found in their cameras for years. The main characteristic was that the controller for the card was in the camear whereas it was in the card with CF. This was not a good thing as it limited possibilities for enlarging the size of the cards. Initially the biggest card size was 8MB, as that was thought to be "big enough". Of course soon it was not, and so the biggest possible size became 16MB - but the problem was that older devices could still only use 8MB and smaller cards. And on it went, all the way up to 128MB, which was and is the biggest kind of SmartMedia card you can get. In contrast, CompactFlash kept getting bigger and bigger as technology allowed. It got all the way to 2GB (2,000 MB) in size, which is the biggest allowed by the FAT16 file system, and then they kept getting even bigger, though now, for once, the size is dependent on the device (camera) using the newer FAT32 file system, which if I recall correctly goes all the way up to 2 terabytes (that's 2,000 GB). When we get to that size, well, who knows, but I suspect CompactFlash never will because we'll probably all be using something else by then. (CF is, in fact, on the brink of being replaced by something calld SD/MMC, but that's another story. FYI SD has the controller in the card but it's smaller and faster than CF.)

 

A couple of years ago, the developers of the SmartMedia card realised that it would not cut it any longer. So they went out and designed something new, called the xD Picture Card. And they repeated their crucial error: they put the controller in the device. Again. When they announced this I suspect many onlookers around the world wanted to pull our hair out.

 

The xD card goes up to 8GB maximum capacity. The prevailing thought is that this would be "enough". I cannot think of how to say this nicely: that is simply an idiotic idea. We all have enough contact with computers and most people should be able to figure out that in technology there never is an "enough". (I'm not a techie, just a curious onlooker, and of course, like everyone these days, a user of computers and all their associated paraphenalia.) It will be enough - for a little while, and then we will need bigger ones. Someone ought to tell the people Fuji and Olympus that such is the way of progress and technology and all that. After all, these are the people who thought 8MB was enough back in the mid-1990s when hardly anyone but die-hard technophiles even knew what a digital camera was.

 

Now, in the interest of fairness I have to mention that there are some perceived advantages to having the controller in the device/camera. The card is definitely smaller, and they claim it's cheaper too. On the other hand, a format designed that way has proven to be unsustainable. I'm sure it will be again. I expect that within two years the 8GB limit will have been outgrown and they'll have to come up with somethin else.

 

The thing that really amuses and annoys me is that Olympus don't seem to be that confident in the xD format themeselves. I own, as I mentioned before, Olympus' top of the line, the E-1. It is a great camera that I enjoy immensely. But of not here, it does not have an xD Picture Card slot! Instead it has - you guessed it - a CompactFlash slot, like every other camera in its class presently being made. Even discontinued C-5050, the C-5060, and C-8080 - nominally consumer cameras (albiet overkill for most) - have dual slots, one for CF and one for xD. But on most cameras Olympus continues to be dedicated exclusively to the infernal xD format, which never should have existed in the first place, because they should have learned their lesson from SmartMedia. If they really wanted to be futuristic they should have adopted SD which is probably the next world standard.

 

Fuji and Olympus claim that CF and SD are too expensive because they have the controller in the card. This is rubbish. In any given size CF is virtually always the least expensive type to buy. They can't say they're too big either as SD is tiny as well, though not as tiny as xD which, as its sole virtue, is an amazingly tiny little card. To me, using xD might be a deal-breaker, but it almost certainly shouldn't be for you.

 

There is one other caveat I have about consumer digital cameras like this - the viewfinders. Amost all of them have tiny, little, awful optical viewfinders. Now, as someone used to (film) SLRs, their small size, dimness, etc. bothers me. But more importantly, at various levels of zoom, the viewfinder becomes less accurate, which means that what you see is not what you get. You see things the camera won't capture and vice versa. I consider myself a pretty decent photgrapher and when borrowing cameras with this type of viewfinder, I still wind up missing an awful lot of shots. It drives me out of my mind.

 

Now, you can use the camera's LCD to frame the photo, with better accuracy, but this is awkward and eats batteries. The thing that bothers me is that there is an easy solution called an electronic viewfinder (EVF). This is basically a tiny LCD under a magnifying glass that acts like an optical viewfinder. Because it's small it doesn't use all the battery life of an LCD. Since it isn't optical, it isn't anywhere near as good as a true SLR viewfinder (cameras with those are $1000+) but for less expensive cameras it is an excellent compromise. Why more manufacturers do not use them I don't know. Having had an EVF camera (the old C-2100 UZ), it's really not bad at all, far preferable to the awful optical viewfinders of most consumer cameras.

 

If the viewfinder issue concerns you I'd recommend the Olympus C-740 UZ, which should cost around $350. In addition to the EFV you get a 10x zoom lens (you may get occasional blurry photos sans tripod at full zoom, but it's nice to have all that extra zoom "just in case") in a very nice, compact (for that size lens) camera. It does still take the xD card but otherwise it would by my personal current pick as a digital camera for the "average consumer". I think it represents a great value. You can find out more about it on Olympus' web site.

 

You also might want to check camera review sites. The one I use the most is Digital Photography Review but they have tested mostly more expensive cameras aimed at enthusiast and pros lately. There is also The Imaging Resource which is quite good and has reviews on a vast range of cameras (much wider than DPReview, with much more emphasis on consumer-level cameras). Also there is Steve's Digicam's which was mentioned above.

 

Anyhow, in the end, I hope you enjoy your new camera, whatever you buy, and hope I haven't confused you to death here.

[dougnewmanatsea]

From your experience with the D560, do you think my camera is defective?

I have no experience with that camera but if you're only getting five or six images on a fully-charged set of rechargeable NiMH batteries it's almost certainly defective.

[RevNeal]

They can't say they're too big either as SD is tiny as well, though not as tiny as xD which, as its sole virtue, is an amazingly tiny little card.

 

The xD card has an additional feature in the Olympus cameras which have the panoramic feature: you can take and merge into a panoramic photo up to 10 frames which are automatically stitchable using Olympus' Camedia software. You can only do this on Olympus cameras using the xD card.

 

Your remarks on the old smartmedia card were, in my opinion, right on target. The largest card my old Olympus C-2020z could use was the 64 MB card. When I first bought that camera 64 MB was quite a lot. It still is ... for THAT camera. I have six 64 MB cards, and a USB reader that allows these cards to double as large-file transfer media.

 

For use in my C-5060 I have a 256 MB xD card and two 512 MB CF cards. The ability to have both the xD and CF cards in the camera at once gives me the ability to take a larger number of high-resolution photos without having to change cards as often.

 

As for megapixel count, you're quite correct that, for most purposes, it's not as important as is generally claimed in the market today. Nevertheless, there is a discernible difference between (for example) 5x7 photos taken on my 2020 (2.1 megapixels) and my mother's 4040 (4 megapixels). Is it enough to matter? Not really ... and certainly not for 3x5 prints or on the video screen. More important are the lenses, the physical zoom, the image storage speed, and other features -- degrees of manual control, for example -- that the cameras have. Among the reasons I chose the 5060 was because of the many varying degrees of manual control features, its wide-angle lens and physical zoom, and the fact that it can use CF cards in addition to xD cards. I also like the articulation of the display and the "feel" of the camera in my hands. It's simply a joy to use.

[Nebraska Admiral]

My D560 camera ate alkaline batteries. By switching to metal ahlide rechargable batteries (most digital camera rechargable batteries are metal halide) I have been getting about 500 pictures on aa charge. The older rechargable batteries develope a"memory" which means if you recharge them when they are still half charged several times, the batteries will only half charge them The advantage of metal halide is that you can recharge them anytime and they charge fully. I would try the new batteries and "waste pictures" just to see how many shots you are getting. If you are not getting 300-500 shots from a single charge, I then would ssend the camera back and insist on a new one,. I just love my 560 and you should love yours too. I could only get about 20 pictures from my old epson camera and you never knew when the the batteries were going to fail. I am going to dig it out of the attic and try the new metal halide batteries in it and compare. If you need any futher info on the batt or camera please e mail me and I will work with you on possible solutions

[Travelbug 2]

WOW !!!!!! This thread has developed into a provider of a wealth of info'

Thanks for all your comments and ideas and keep it coming, it sure helps the novice in the "what to buy" catagory.

 

Happy cruising.

 

Travelbug 2

[cruisinjudy]

My previous digital quit on our Hawaii cruise before we even hit land, but it had been a battery eater. Could only get a few shots with regular AA batteries. I bought a new camera in Kona, a Canon A80 that I love, and it takes many many pictures without new batteries. On our twelve day Alaska cruise I think I only recharged batteries a few times. Then when we got home I sent the other camera, which was only 9 months old, back to the manufacturer they fixed it for free and sent it back with clues about how to save battery life. I gave it to my sister. I think there was certainly something wrong with it all the time, as my sister hasn't complained about batteries since it was fixed, of course she got the camera as a gift so what's to complain about. :D

Anyway, I suggest you tell the company you know something is wrong and make sure they fix it!

[jhannah]

Great info! Thanks, Doug, for that straight-forward presentation of digicam facts and figures.

[Ellya]

I just bought an Olympus C-750 camera and shot over 50 shots and the batteries are still going strong. I am sure there is something wrong with your camera unless you are leaving it turned on or something. My new camera is a 4 megapixel camera and I find it very superior in picture quality to my previous 2.3. I am not a camera expert, but the difference in picture quality even in 4x6 size is very obvious.

[Host Walt]

Can't add much to the foregoing except that:

 

1. Optical zoom (as Superstein said) is a good thing. Your picture quality using optical zoom is always better than digital zoom. (Digital zoom is really little more than photo cropping that you do with your camera, not with your computer, and it reduces your creative options.)

 

2. Optical zoom, because it's mechanical, chews up batteries fast. Mine (A Canon A70 with a 3x optical zoom) has 4 AA NiMH batteries. My wife has a Canon S310 (with only a digital zoom) that uses only 2 AA NiMH batteries. Her 2 batteries last longer than my 4 batteries. The only significant operating difference between the two cameras is the presence of an optical zoom on the A70. BTW, if you make heavy use of the flash, you'll go through batteries much faster.

 

3. I bought a recharger from Radio Shack on the advice of a friend after having bad luck with an Eveready unit. The Radio Shack unit worked great for me on a 15 day trip to France and a 7 day trip to Grand Cayman. I have 4 sets of 4 batteries. One set (4 and 2) in each camera and one spare set (6) in my pocket. The last 4 are for recharging. The unit takes 13 hours to recharge a set of fully drained batteries but the slow charging makes the batteries last a lot longer. BTW, regular AA batteries work fine if you find that your rechargeables are used up. (Happened to me at Pont du Hoc and Utah Beach on the Normandy coast where I shot pics like a fool. A drugstore in nearby St. Mere Eglise had standard Duracells at 3 Euros for a 4 pack.)

 

4. I bought a 512mb SanDisk CF card and carry a spare 16mb card. My wife has a 256mb SanDisk and carries a 32 mb spare. We have never run out of capacity on either of the big cards. (As Superstein suggested, we shoot at a lower res level - suitable for 8x10 enlargements - which gives us a whole lot more capacity and makes the photos easier to email because they aren't "huge," just "big.")