HAL .....I've Been Thinking!!!

[hammybee]

Hmmm....imagine if Club HAL required an add-on charge for each child or each hour. Wonder how many parents would just decide to let the little darlings roam free so as to save $ they could use to splurge on other things.:eek:

 

Good point. Never thought of this.

 

 

BTW, Middle-aged- Mom ( MoM) has a great idea for Camp Hell-o on HAL.

[sail7seas]

Got 'ya thinking, didn't I? :D

 

I agree that I would not want to see things become A la Carte aboard HAL ships.

 

It has occured to me the Powers that Be might be considering all options as 'possible' and I wondered what everyone's thoughts about it are.

 

I think things on HAL are just fine the way they are. ;)

 

[hammybee]

I think things on HAL are just fine the way they are. ;)

 

 

Me too but everything changes.

 

Thanks again for the thread.

[cdnliving]

We're taking our first cruise in March, so I have nothing to offer on this topic but I just had to let you know that your title was clever and gave me a good chuckle!!

[boomerSexyK]

An interesting and thought provoking thread. Also, a quandry for the cruiselines themselves. "How do we maintain our established customer base, while at the same time increase profits". It would appear that the cruiselines have encroached upon the upper limits of what they can charge for the experience, hence the discounting 60 days out to fill empty cabins. So do they cut out some included activites ( at a possible loss of pax in the process)? Or an increase in price, with the same type of losses?

A quick look over at Cruise Business Review garnered up these headlines;

Latest News

 

21.9.2006: Carnival shares rise more than 5% on better than forecast interims

 

 

21.9.2006: Carnival Corp & PLC third quarter profit rises to $1.23 billion

 

 

20.9.2006: NCL unveils marketing campaign

 

 

16.9.2006: KONE delivers elevators to the Genesis-class

 

 

15.9.2006: Carnival stock seen heading north

 

Not exactly screaming out poverty is it? Granted business is in the game to make a profit, which by all means they are entitled to. The law of supply and demand will always win out in the end. Cruiselines can only charge what the market will bear. If the price gets too high for what the product is, it will affect the bottom line. The new builds is an attempt at boosting profit margins by putting more people on board thereby reducing the cost per passenger.

As a new cruiser, it is the very nature of all-inclusive cruising that makes it appealing to us. We don't use Club Hal. We only see a few of the shows, but like the availability of wandering in when we're in the mood. Breakfast on our balcony, watching the waves, is a highlight I look forward to every cruise and yes I would think I'd pay extra for it, if I were forced too. They could throw all the gym equipment overboard and put in a few more staterooms, it wouldn't bother me in the least. So yes there are some things they could charge extra for and I would still cruise, but I believe the basic cruise experience of nice rooms, balconies, included meals and shows, and of course impeccable service MUST remain untouched.

 

[visagrunt]

I suspect that Carnival will continue to manage brand differentiation in their lines. While you might see more of a "pay as you go" product on one of the products, I suspect that they will always keep HAL as a higher end label, with a more inclusive fare.

[babyher]

I suspect that Carnival will continue to manage brand differentiation in their lines. While you might see more of a "pay as you go" product on one of the products, I suspect that they will always keep HAL as a higher end label, with a more inclusive fare.

 

That may be true, but by the same token, Carnival should still "dance with the guy that brought them to the party" as my Dad used to say.

 

Long before suites and consierges and Neptune Lounges and all the bells and whistles. Carnival made its fortune attracting working class people and families on reasonably priced "inclusive" vacations. You paid your fare and got a cabin and all your meals and some entertainment included. Whatever extras you could manage was up to you, but at least Mom and dad could take the kids on a nice trip to a couple different ports and have a nice time and not have to worry about what the basics (food and lodgeing) were gonna cost along the way.

 

There are millions of cruisers every year that just want a nice reasonably priced getaway for themselves and the kids.

 

They couldn't care less about Pinnacle Grills, Cappucino machines in the Neptune Lounge, they stopped serveing caviar at the Captains party. They just want a good time at a good price.

 

If you start "ala carteing " them, they are going to be the first ones to stop cruiseing. they are the ones that truly can't afford the extra $10 in Pinnacle and so forth.

 

Carnival starts losing that base, then prices will really go up.

 

Those cruise line profit figures one of the above posters showed were not all gained by suite passengers. Much of that money was gained by one working class Joe after aother looking for a good value vacation after working damn hard all year

[kryos]

You present an interesting possibility, Sail. However, I don't see it going quite that far. I think the cruise basics will continue to be free, but their quality will go down.

 

I do see the basic food service going downhill in the coming years. It has to as the profit margins get squeezed. The cruise lines will be pressured to pump up onboard revenue because the dumba**s will be practically giving cabins away on the mega ships ... because that's the only way they will be able to sail most voyages with full ships. They made the ships too big ... too many of those big ships ... and many will be sailing at far below capacity. They have to do something.

 

So to offset the losses they will incur by giving bargain basement pricing, they will have to increase onboard revenue ... double, triple, quadruiple it if possible.

 

So there will be lots of options ... and lots of things that today are free will be enhanced, but will have a charge tomorrow.

 

I see more types on onboard games being developed. Bingo doesn't appeal to everybody, but maybe some sort of other game will. I see several new games coming out ... all with a charge to participate. Don't like art auctions? How about antique shops onboard ... auctioning off items of that type. The possibilities are endless.

 

I also see more "enrichment" classes having a charge. Maybe the "Explorations Speakers Series" will continue to be free. But, if you want to take a class based on the material in the lecture ... a hands-on type of thing, you'll pay a nice charge for that. HAL does that now with their cooking classes. The demonstrations are free, but the classes have a nice price tag. Also, Princess does it now with their pottery classes. They say you are only paying for materials, but that's bunk. Believe me, there's an override charge built into that "materials" fee. Computer classes, food preparation classes ... sure we have them today, but they will get even bigger in the future and the offerings more varied. They will all have a charge attached. Want to learn to play bridge? Sign up for our introductory bridge course ... a lesson everyday, plus an hour of practice play. $250 for the ten-day course.

 

I also see more "theme" type cruises, but not run by travel agents. These will be put together by the cruise line itself. Let's see. Do you devour good books? How about a book club at sea? Bring onboard several best selling authors and charge a premium price for the sailing. Let's say it's a mystery lovers cruise. Bring onboard several well-known mystery writers. When passengers sign up for the cruise, they receive a reading list. The author makes a buck (beyond the handsome fee they get for doing the cruise) because people have to go onto Amazon.com and buy their latest book. They read the books before the cruise, and then participate in discussions with the authors about the books. Then, of course, there could be special lunches with the authors. These are optional and incur an additional charge. Cocktail parties and shore excursions with your favorite author could work the same way. The ways to make money are endless! Love reality TV? Wow! I can see a cruise based on a reality tv show with a hefty price attached. Ummmmm, Survivor Half Moon Cay ... :) Or how about a version of The Apprentice done aboard a cruise ship, with the participants competing to see which team can increase the revenues in the piano bar by the largest percentage for an evening? A few of the former participants in the real show could be onboard advising and helping the teams of cruisers. Wonder what a cruise line could charge for something like that? :)

 

Remember, the new build ships will be larger, so they will have room for lots of these new offerings. They will include extra space for meeting rooms, additional auditorium type rooms, etc. In fact, I can see the day when the average cruise will include less ports just so more of these special activities can be offered and passengers will have more of those long sea days to participate. The mega ship will be a destination unto itself, and people will probably prefer staying onboard ... and will have to spend money if they want to stay busy.

 

I imagine basic food service will continue to be free ... maybe something like the Lido Buffet will always be offered as part of your cruise fare, but if you want sit down service, you have to buy the "premium dining plan." That gets you into the dining room while everybody else stands around with their trays waiting for an empty table in the Lido.

 

For a truly good dining experience, you'll have alternative dining venues ... multiple ones aboard each ship ... all with a charge assessed.

 

As for the shows, I can only see the line charging if they brought on special entertainment for the cruise. Perhaps a reasonably well-known comediene or recording artist ... someone people will pay to see. I doubt the basic shows would have a charge, because frankly ... would you pay to see that crap? It's nice if it's included, but would you really pay for it? Not me. So if the cruise lines want to make money on shows, they are gonna have to bring some people with name value onboard to do those shows. Otherwise, the showroom will go dark every night.

 

Club HAL ... no, I don't see HAL ever charging for that. HAL needs the family market. If people have to pay for a children's program, they may opt for an all inclusive on land instead. Many of those venues include children's programs. HAL has to compete with that and since they want to encourage the family cruiser, Club HAL will be included in the fare. But its hours may be shorter and special nighttime or port day options may incur a special fee.

 

HMC? We pay for everything there now anyway. That's a real cash cow for HAL and I see the day when the cruise lines will buy up more islands and convert them to private paradises. Maybe eventually a typical seven-day Caribbean itinerary will include three cruise line islands and one general port. Maybe the cruise lines will even begin sharing private islands. Let's see ... Monday at Castaway Cay, Wednesday at HMC, Thursday at Princess Cay and Friday at St. Thomas. Sound good? Every dime you spend on those islands goes right into the pockets of the cruise line ... no need to share with anyone else. And, after all, cruise line execs will figure ... why should we be making St. Thomas rich? Sure makes more sense to have some really nice private islands ... a destination unto themselves, and more importantly a destination that can only be visited on a cruise. Those islands will be nice, and will have lots of offerings ... shopping, water sports, excursions ... the works ... with all proceeds going into the pocket of the cruise line. Nice ...

 

These are just a few of the thoughts I came up with ... and note that they will only work with a large ship. Since the cruise lines are only building large ships now, it is logical these are the sort of directions cruising will take in the next couple of decades. The basic cabin you buy will cost you next to nothing ... but you'd better budget several thousand dollars for onboard charges if you want to have any hope of enjoying your cruise. After all, it will get kind of boring when you have four sea days in a row of just sitting around reading your book. Your kids too will get antsy if all they have is a couple of hours a day of Club HAL and then sitting at a tiny crowded pool with mom and dad for the rest of the day.

 

Like I said, I'm glad I'm cruising today. I figure I have at least another ten years before these changes fully take hold. Then, I guess I'll have to decide how I feel about them when the time comes. Worse case scenario, I'll be looking for a new way to spend my vacation time. I'm sure there will always be other options out there.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[HoneyGV]

 

It does not appear that HAL has problems filling their ships because HAL seriously discounts sailings' date=' especially when the intinerary is common to many cruise lines.

 

Do you think HAL can continue to compete if they did not go toe-to toe with Carnival, NCL and RCCL prices? To compete, HAL , like all others, needs to create venues that will compel passengers to spend beyond the "all inclusive" rates.

 

The profitability of a cruise is tied to how much passesgers spend on optional, unbundled items and services.[/quote']

 

The cruise companies are enjoying tremendous profits. I seriously doubt they will turn everything into an "Ala Carte" cruise. Their "serious" discounted sales to fill up ships isn't all that serious, IMO. People who sail the higher ended catagories will continue to pay for them. The prices they show in the brochures are overpriced and almost no one ever pays those prices.

I believe that the people who book the higher catagories will always be there, as long as the service is there, even if they increase the price to $1000 more per 10 day+ cruises. They will lower the price or give upgrades to those on the lower catagories and still make a tremendous profit.

Carnival has enough other lines and catagories to more than pay for what HAL customers are used to. IMO.

If I'm not mistaken the cruise industry is just going bonkers with all the new cruisers...more than any other vacation destination. They keep building bigger ships with more destinations.

I believe cruising is here to stay and it will be a long time if ever that they go "Ala Carte".;)

[kryos]

NCL has tried to remove food from the basics by structuring a large number of alternative restaurants on board their ships at various tariffs. There are those who like to cruise this way but I wonder how the bottom line is for NCL as I have seen their cruises, over and over again, on heavy discount these past few months? Could it be that these policies are hurting their bottom line?

I've been seeing a lot of cruise lines' prices dropping, though ... including HAL's for some sailings. I think the reason the prices are dropping is because the economy is not doing too good right now. Especially with the high price of energy and gasoline, maybe people are feeling the squeeze. When things are tight, what's the first thing to go? Vacations, of course. These cruise lines have a lot of ships ... they keep building them. And, these are B I G ships, so I have a feeling plenty of them are sailing at far below capacity. That's why the cruise lines are dropping prices ... especially for certain itineraries/certain times of the year. It's not exclusively an NCL thing. It's industry wide.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[HeatherInFlorida]

After posting my initial feelings this morning, I thought more about this and decided that as far as the dining is concerned, I definitely doubt it's going to happen.

 

I agree they may add more specialty/premium restaurants with a flat rate in each one. But they will continue having meals included in the main DR and Lido. One of the biggest reasons I could think of is that it would add a lot more administrative gobbledegook if they start pricing everything separately.

 

And the more I thought about it the more I realized that I'm glad we've gotten in as much cruising as we have. Because this would be the straw that broke the camel's back.

[TedC]

A la carte cruising is already available on easyCruise - an offshoot of easyJet, the budget European airline.

 

You pay a basic daily fare and everything else is a la carte - food, cabin services etc.

 

easyCruise probably appeals to backpackers and other low-budget travelers. I read that a second ship is being added to the "fleet." which primarily sails European itineraries in warm months and Cariibbean in winter.

 

It won't happen on HAL.

[Pudgesmom]

Sounds reasonable Hammy. It actually sounds sort of like a question I posed that got blasted by some. Offer a mass market cruise at a mass market price and let people choose if they would like to upgrade some parts of their cruise experience.

.

 

Snorkel bear,

 

I suggested this idea myself about a month or so ago after reading about easy Cruise and was also blasted. Perhaps the OP of a thread has something to do with how it is received?:confused:

 

Beth

[HALOnlyCruiser]

Sail7Seas..

I sure hope this was just something you dreamed up and is not something that HAL asked you to test the waters on. I think we all know you have some pretty good connections with HAL.

Whereas it is obvious, since I started cruising with HAL in 1993, that there have been substatial cuts to amenities, and more (such as the Mariner Tiles) are being implemented all the time, I would certainly hope that cruising with HAL would never come to what you suggest.

And the post by "the2ofus" gave me nightmares....kids whose parents wouldn't pay for ClubHAL and just let them run amok. Oh dear me......

Also, I can only imagine the line at the Front Desk when our highly disgruntled society pays for something and it is not 100% to their liking...... "I PAID FOR THIS (fill in the blank...) AND I DIDN"T LIKE IT AND I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!" What a headache for the staff.

And where would HAL draw the line? Housekeeping service? ALL food? Keys to the cabin? The disembarkation tags? Silly, I know, but bean-counters can come up with the most ludicrous ideas.

I have to agree with the other posters who would say good-bye to the best vacation ever were what you suggest come to pass.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Snorkel bear,

 

I suggested this idea myself about a month or so ago after reading about easy Cruise and was also blasted. Perhaps the OP of a thread has something to do with how it is received?:confused:

 

Beth

 

Beth, knowing you this post surprises me. It's completely untrue and it serves no purpose. While there are many of us who value Sail7Seas' posts and count her as a friend, she has taken more than her share of "blasts" and "slams". So this remark is unfair and uncalled for.

 

I didn't see your post that I recall, but sometimes the reaction is based on the wording the OP uses. Could be timing, could be just the people online on a particular day that gets a certain reaction.

[HoneyGV]

Well, if it gets down to paying extra for cabin services that now are included with the cruise...I feel sorry for what that would do to the stewards OR to the cruise lines who enjoy hiring them on the cheap.

Can you just see them turning the Neptune lounge into a linen closet where pax will go to get their own clean sheets and vacuum cleaners because they won't want to pay extra for steward service?:D

Cruising Ala Carte will upset the whole industry.

[Mollynme]

I also see more "theme" type cruises, but not run by travel agents. These will be put together by the cruise line itself. Let's see. Do you devour good books? How about a book club at sea? Bring onboard several best selling authors and charge a premium price for the sailing. Let's say it's a mystery lovers cruise. Bring onboard several well-known mystery writers. When passengers sign up for the cruise, they receive a reading list. The author makes a buck (beyond the handsome fee they get for doing the cruise) because people have to go onto Amazon.com and buy their latest book. They read the books before the cruise, and then participate in discussions with the authors about the books. Then, of course, there could be special lunches with the authors. These are optional and incur an additional charge. Cocktail parties and shore excursions with your favorite author could work the same way.

--rita

I like how you think! Now that is something I would be willing to pay extra for.:D

[sail7seas]

Thanks, Heather.......I appreciate You. Thank you.

 

 

HALOnlyCruiser.......

 

This whole concept and thread are of my own making/design. I wish I had such 'power' to have any influence on anything HAL does or doesn't do. What fun that could be!!!

 

In any case, I think it has been a very interesting read and I'm glad so many expressed their thoughts. I think it's been a good thread .

 

[SnorkelBear]

Thanks Beth, nice to have at least one friend.

 

Heather, although I love your posts, I have to agree with Beth. I started a thread with a similar theme and kinda got slammed. Now everyone is talking about about how that is what it HAL will likely become. There is definately a class system on this board.

[waterbug1]

SnorkleBear,

Didn’t you know that Bear Season opened on September 1st? Never fear, there are many here who appreciate you and Pudgesmom too!

[Vic The Parrot]

Hmmmmmmmm

 

 

 

"HAL lite"

 

"easyHAL"

[Vic The Parrot]

HAL .....I've Been Thinking!!!

 

 

 

Thought I smelled wood burning ...

 

 

 

:cool:

[HeatherInFlorida]

..................

............. There is definately a class system on this board.

 

I need to be clear. I know Beth. I have cruised with her and I like her tremendously. You can be a friend to someone and not always agree with them.

 

There is not a "class system" on this board. If you read my post I ventured an opinion about how this can happen. It depends who sees your thread, the mood they are in that day and how the post is worded.

 

And again, it's all in perception. I didn't see anyone saying it's going to happen on HAL including Sail7Seas. She brought up a "I've been thinking and what if?" scenerio. That's a long way from saying it's going to happen.

 

And if you read my posts among others, we say we doubt it where the dining room is concerned. As to other things, who knows? I thought it was just a fun friendly discussion of how we'd feel about it.

 

I said I would stop cruising ... pretty strong.

 

So don't mistake a disagreement with a lack of respect or dislike for a person. If you've missed the threads where Sail has been torn apart by members of this board, then you've missed a lot of threads. It happens to all of us ... I should know because I've been the brunt of it enough to have taken several breaks.

 

It just might be time for another one :)

[hammybee]

Thanks Beth, nice to have at least one friend.

 

Heather, although I love your posts, I have to agree with Beth. I started a thread with a similar theme and kinda got slammed. Now everyone is talking about about how that is what it HAL will likely become. There is definately a class system on this board.

 

Snorklebearguy:

I was, I think, the OP of the most recent Easy Cruise Post and noticed the similarity of this to your post earleir this week.

 

I have been around, on and off since the CC AOL days. Each board has its own group dynamics. We have seekers, pouters, whiners, jesters, judges, soothers, funsters, know it alls, analyzers, shouters, lurkers, challengers, clarifyers, aggravators, first responders, those that relate well and those who relate only to themselves. And always, more personalities than posters :)

 

There will be regulars who ignore you and some who get you, as you will them. And in the middle of it all, you will find some incredibly gracious and generous folk. Some take nothing personally and others take it all personally.

 

The best cure for shaking the sense of being ignored or slammed is to find someone else who needs a little validation and give them what they need.

[dougnewmanatsea]

I don't see this happening any time in the near future.

 

Maybe someday... After all, none of us know what is going to be in 10 or 20 years... But not soon. Certainly not in the next decade. Not on HAL.

 

Now, it is possible that someone could make a lot of money off this idea - not doing it as radically as EasyCruise (because on EasyCruise you really can't add that many frills if you want them) but still something based on the "pay as you go" concept. I really think it could work. But I don't see any of the existing, established cruise lines going into it. If anyone did it would be NCL but I don't see even them taking that leap anytime in the forseeable future.

 

As for whether I would do it... Well, there are very few cruises out there I would actually not consider taking. If it were a good product and if it were cost-effective, I might. I certainly don't find the idea objectionable. It wouldn't work for HAL though.