"Free" Freestyle

[seahorse]

Read a comment on the board that "Freestyle isn`t free anymore" Huh?
This was pertaining to the new $10.00 resort fee.
As we all know, "Freestyle" means doing what we please, when we please in regard to our actions aboard the ship :D

When it came to the tipping suggestion of $10.00pp per day because of no set waiter etc. people complained that they "Will not get good service anymore". I found this not to be so, BUT this gave some people the FREEDOM to stiff the staff. I have seen this time and time again. Case in point, I was at the desk on the last morning on the Dawn and a man before me was asking that half of his tip be removed. The rep asked "Why Sir, did you not get good service?" He casually said "Everything was great. I just don`t want tp tip that much".:eek:

Now we have the freedom to tip, so to the complainers and whiners have a choice, and by golly, now they will get good service:rolleyes:
Now the staff will at least get something.

We all have choices in life and there are many cruise lines out there. Please move on people, stop complaining. If you don`t like NCL`s policies go to another line. This is not a harsh statement. This is reality. Beating a dead horse only gets you tired and frustrated.

[Casshew]

[quote name='seahorse'] This is reality. Beating a dead horse only gets you tired and frustrated.[/QUOTE]

[CENTER][IMG]http://www.casshew.com/2horse.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]

[ron46936]

I agree. Most people or at least all of those I've talked too tipped the recommended amount. When NCL moved to charging the tips to one's account there was a lot of complaining but my experience has been very positive. Calling it a service fee or resort fee or whatever doesn't change anything for me.

[MartiniMama]

I have no problem with a "mandatory" $10/per day tip being imposed on all cruisers because I think the staff deserve that at a minimum for all the hard work they do --- even the ones who might not be giving excellent service are still working long hours and who knows, maybe this cruise they aren't as quick as usual because they are sick or worried about a sick child back home. I think their showing up and doing the job warrants the tip. If they go the extra mile, then they should be tipped extra. I too have seen people take away the tip because the service wasn't "outstanding." Some people will find any excuse to keep a few bucks in their pockets. Having said that, I am more concerned that the tip is not being given to the staff. If NCL is collecting this money and then keeping it or giving only a portion to the staff, all the while disguising it as a customary tip, then I have a big problem with that. I don't really want to financially support a company that stiffs its own staff. If NCL wants or needs to raise its price, then it should do so....honestly, not deceptively. One of the reasons I have never booked a cruise with NCL before is because of the hidden charges. When comparing their rates with others using on-line booking companies, I have found in the past that the "cruise" price was lower but the taxes/port fees where much higher than Carnival or RCI....sometimes $100/per person higher. (sailing from the same port) It appears to me that NCL likes to manipulate it's pricing to appear more competitive. This leaves me with the feeling that I cannot trust NCL - who knows what's really in that lobster bisque??
The bottom line is that while I support mandatory tips for staff I find it unconscionable that a cruise line would purport to collect the money on the staff's behalf and then keep it for the corporate executives. :mad:

[seahorse]

:eek: We do not know that this is true. I believe that this may be liable:eek:?

[seahorse]

:D WAAAAY too funny. Where do you get these things?

[quote name='Casshew'][center][img]http://www.casshew.com/2horse.gif[/img][/center]
[/QUOTE]

[Casshew]

[quote name='seahorse']:D WAAAAY too funny. Where do you get these things?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Indigo]
LOL ~ I keep them handy for special occasions :) not many people use the expression 'beating a dead horse' so when I saw it I jumped on it :)

Fee free to use any of these smilies
[URL=http://www.casshew.com/cassfaces.htm]Casshew Smilies[/URL][/COLOR]

[MartiniMama]

NCL's website states:
Applicable to Pride of Aloha Effective June 2004*
A service charge of $10.00 per person per day will be added to your onboard account. For children ages 3-12 a $5.00 per person per day charge will be added to your onboard account; there is no charge for children under the age of 3. This is a fixed service charge and is not a gratuity and therefore is not adjustable. .... Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on Norwegian Cruise Line and NCL America ships. Our staff are paid salaries. ....* This policy will be effective May 2005 for all Norwegian Cruise Line Ships.

It's clear to me that NCL is now charging as a "fixed service charge" exactly what has always been a customery gratuity.... a price that we as cruisers are used to paying. It seems pretty clear that they are not giving that money to the staff as gratuities since they are paid salaries. I hope that the staffs' salaries have been increased now that they are no longer receiving tips. If that's the case, I have no problems with that at all. I support increasing the price of the cruise to include the what would have been the gratuities if the company raises the salaries of the staff to the same level as if they were receiving tips. It's even better for the staff because it insures that everyone pays the minimum tip. We just don't know if that is what is happening. If not, sure it doesn't effect me because it's the same amount out of my pocket but I sure would feel bad for the staff working so hard for less money. My concern is for all those hardworking people who make our vacations so enjoyable! :)

[Chuck & Phyllis]

Ann,

I too don't mind the $10 fee. We always leave a nice extra amount anyhow. I felt like you until I read their statement that this money does not go to the crew as gratuities. It also encourages gratiuties besides even though they say it's not necessary. So what is this service charge for? They don't say. They imply that the crew receives a salary as though this fee pays it but doesn't actually state that. Now, the way I perceive this is that this money is paid to NCL to provide service. Is the steward being paid $3.50 pp per day by NCL? I doubt it. They probably are paying the entire crew with this money and telling the waiters, busboys and stewards that if they do a good job, the passenger will give you a gratuity. So now, what do we do now? How much do we tip? We usually tip 150-170% of recommended. Now we'll feel cheap giving that other 50-70% knowing heshe probably didn't get the first 100%. The only thing we can do is to consider the $10 pp per day as part of the cruise fare and shop accordingly. I'm the type to blow a thousand bucks on nothing but you better not steal a dime from me and since this $10 is not the crew's gratuity, and I have to pay it, and it's not part of the fare or taxes, they're stealing it. Of course we can just decide not to cruise NCL and that might be the way we go. Will hate to give up that aft balcony though.

In the end, the crew will suffer because how many people will do what we did running around with a handfull of ten dollar bills on the last day. Or, let me guess, we'll have to tip as service is rendered. So if we normally left a waiter $6.00 pp a day That would leave $2.50 pp a day to divi up between the waiters for breakfast lunch and dinner? What does that come to 83 cents pp a day per waiter? As far as drinks are concerned, everyone should write ZERO in the space for gratuity and give cash. Actually, the more I think about this, this is going to be too uncomfortable for me so unless they reverse this policy, we're not sailing with them.

Thanks for the ear Ann,

Chuck

[seahorse]

Chuck,

Where do you see that corporate is pocketing the money? A service charge goes for "Service" That is the staff. NCL has the right to disperse this money to the staff as they see fit. I don`t know of any business that lists how they reward their staff. NCL has a moral obligation to do the right thing by their employees. If they don`t, I am sure that we will know one way or another.

As far as "Not trusting NCL" "What is in that Lobster Bisque" This is what I am saying about beating that horse. Being a chef in many restaurants, this had me hysterical. If people only knew what goes on behind the scenes in kitchens, they would never eat out again:eek:

You have a choice of not going, this is my point. You will miss that aft cabin though:(

[awesomecruise]

If NCL insisted on adding a 'service/resort/or what ever they want to call it fee' why not just addd the $70 onto the price of the stateroom and called this a 'tip/service fee included' cruise? People who had great services can give additional if they want. In many countries, service fee and taxes are iuncluded in their meal, ticket, hotel, and many other. This saves the time calculating tips at the end of the service and you don't have to pay $30(with tip and tax added) for a listed $20 meal. It's easier to control the budget this way.

Not sure if NCL is keeping this fee away from the crew or not. IF they are, the crew should leave NCL and find another job. But I am afraid that this 'mandatory fee' may became the norm through out the cruise industry, and all crews may not see much of the fees collected.

[seahorse]

This is called marketing. Right now prices are fierce with all of the new ships being added to all of the cruise lines. It will bring the price above the other mid-price lines.

Holland America , until recently, had a no tipping required policy. People tipped anyway. Their prices were waaaaaaay above lines in their class. I see no value in this. Their staff gets a higher salary. How high, who knows. Now they have a pp per day tipping charge and their prices are still way up there. Did they lower saleries? Don`t know. What I do know is that staff service, food, etc. is not on par with the rest of the industry. They are starting an Excellence Program. I hope they bring up the quality to where price meets quality.

[Chuck & Phyllis]

So why can't they just say that they're charging a $10 pp per day non adjustable fee as gratuities for the crew? What is the matter with that? I'm all for that and then I can give my extra feeling like I'm giving extra. What are they going to do if nobody tips? That's what's needed (to change this), but it hurts the crew. That's the problem in all this, the crew will be hurt no matter what. I believe what started all this is that American's won't work cheap and I don't blame them. Many of the international crew come from countries where 5 or 6 hundred dollars a week is big money. Just like the Carnival Paradise died trying to be smoke free, POA will too because it won't be competitive. BTW Ann, we quit smoking.

[seahorse]

Chuck,

Do you really think that us Americans will stand for a non-refundable tip:eek: We have to be real here. This service fee will be given as an incentive to the hard working staff as well as a tip for the hard working from the passengers.

If you really think about, for the ones who don`t trust NCL, how do you know that the tip that was charged on your account went to the staff:rolleyes:?

With an All-American crew, they have to pay a salary. They went union. I am not going to give my opinions on unions:eek: Don`t want to open that can of worms:mad:

Congrats on your quitting smoking:D TA`s couldn`t get groups on the Paradise. There was always SOMEONE who smoked. Groups are the backbone of the mid-priced lines.

[Chuck & Phyllis]

OK, then what everyone should do is tell the crew at the end of the cruise "Listen, we already paid your gratuities with the service charge" if they don't want to tip extra and if they do, " Here's a bonus over the service charge added to our onboard account for your gratuities". If NCL doesn't want to call it that, we still can and let the crew know we consider it as such.

[seahorse]

Chuck,

Very good idea. I know you so I know that you are not a "Piker":D But I am a little suspect of people who are screaming in the wind about this. Perhaps some of them are in line at the end of the cruise complaining and wanting the tips taken off:eek:

I always tip extra for good service, so I have no problem with this. I am not a Pollyanna. If I find out that NCL is not doing good by it`s staff (I don`t believe they will) I will use all of my resources to make it known.

Went on Celebrity in June and the waiter was moaning about "Please give a good rating" I have starving children in Turkey" . or some such nonsense. I forgot how much I hated the end of the cruise on traditional cruising.

[Jim Gallup]

My brother works on Pride of Aloha. He is paid about $150 per day as a waiter working an average 15 hours per day. He also receives one week paid holiday for every month he has worked, and gets year round HMO Dental and Medical Insurance, mandated by the State of Hawaii, paid for by NCL America.

On just about every other Cruise Ship (International ones), a waiter is paid $1 per day plus tips, gets no paid vacation, and has no medical coverage when he is off the ship.

On most large cruise ships, the monthly payroll for the ship is about $1 Million.
The Pride of Aloha payroll is about $3 Million per month. Americans are very expensive to employ. On top of that $3 Million, NCL America must pay vacations and medical coverage.

If they have a full ship every week (2,200 guests) paying $10 per day service charges, that comes to $154,000 per week or $616,000 per month. With a $3 Million monthly payroll, (Plus medical and vacation costs) do you think that the crew gets all of your $10 service charge?? The math is pretty simple.

[patandcd]

Thanks for the input Jim,
Are you saying for every month a waiter works he is paid for one week of vacation? $150 per day X 7 = $1050 So, are all clothes and meals furnished also? I may be missing something here, but that sounds like a darn good deal to me. Do they pay overtime for the 15 hours per day? Do they get time off during the week? If one could work a full year, they would end up with 3 months paid vacation @ $4200 per month. I could live with that.

Thanks again,
Pat

[Chuck & Phyllis]

[quote name='Jim Gallup']My brother works on Pride of Aloha. He is paid about $150 per day as a waiter working an average 15 hours per day. He also receives one week paid holiday for every month he has worked, and gets year round HMO Dental and Medical Insurance, mandated by the State of Hawaii, paid for by NCL America.

On just about every other Cruise Ship (International ones), a waiter is paid $1 per day plus tips, gets no paid vacation, and has no medical coverage when he is off the ship.

On most large cruise ships, the monthly payroll for the ship is about $1 Million.
The Pride of Aloha payroll is about $3 Million per month. Americans are very expensive to employ. On top of that $3 Million, NCL America must pay vacations and medical coverage.

If they have a full ship every week (2,200 guests) paying $10 per day service charges, that comes to $154,000 per week or $616,000 per month. With a $3 Million monthly payroll, (Plus medical and vacation costs) do you think that the crew gets all of your $10 service charge?? The math is pretty simple.[/QUOTE]
We tip the waiter/waitress, busboy/busgirl, steward/stewardess. If there are a total of 1,000 crew members onboard (not all wait and steward staff), 1 million pays an average of $1,000 each. At 3 million, it's $3,000 each. $1.00 a day per waiter (international) is $30.00 a month plus tips. $150 a day is $4,500 a month (American). If tips are extended, avg of say $500.00 per week, would bring the total to $6500 a month. That's for 9 months. Then they get $4,500 a month paid vacation for 3 months. That totals to $72,000 a year (working 9 months a year), plus medical and dental? Where do I sign up?

[WeR3Angels]

Wow - I agree - maybe I won't be back. One month's salary and I can pay for another cruise :D

[MartiniMama]

[COLOR=Red]BRING ONE FOR ME!!!! [/COLOR] :D

[wallygator]

I have to add my two cents. I've been a few cruises and our service was always better than excellent. To suggest $10.00 a day per person is too much is sad. Pay and be happy that [SIZE=4]WE[/SIZE] can cruise and enjoy new places and meet new people.

Then we go home and we are with our family and friends.

Some people will complain even if hung with a new rope. Think about it.

Cruise and be Happy. Smiles to you all :) :D :rolleyes:

[Traveler39]

Have you read the other reviews posted here on c.c. before your postings? All of this has been covered and it is of course O.K. for you to hash it out again but consider this: The resort fee of $10.00 pp pd is not about tipping for good service.... It is an additional charge to your bill and that you have no say....I ask you where do you draw the line on a company adding to your purchase any fee... Will you agree to $15 pp pd? How about $25 pp pd or $50 pp pd... for a cruise or an airline flight.... It can get silly!

You are in agreement that any company can add an additional fee to your purchase? Say a McDonald's fee of $1.00 pp per visit to pay for employees dental insurance... Yes!... Then a $5.00 pp per visit for the local cafe to cover employees health insurance...No? Then a luxury type tax on your new SUV, not by the government but by the local dealer to help finance his son's college education... This is not about tipping an employee by you any amount you chose... This is about a company that is going to try to add to your bill a fee that will help the company make a profit and / or pay for benefits to it's employees... Can you tell me of any company doing anything like that and you support them....

[Chuck & Phyllis]

[quote name='wallygator']I have to add my two cents. I've been a few cruises and our service was always better than excellent. To suggest $10.00 a day per person is too much is sad. Pay and be happy that [size=4]WE[/size] can cruise and enjoy new places and meet new people.

Then we go home and we are with our family and friends.

Some people will complain even if hung with a new rope. Think about it.

Cruise and be Happy. Smiles to you all :) :D :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Where in this thread do YOU read that $10 pp per day is too much? I would support $20 PP per day if I knew it was being paid to the waiter, busboy, and steward.

[Chuck & Phyllis]

[quote name='Traveler39']Have you read the other reviews posted here on c.c. before your postings? All of this has been covered and it is of course O.K. for you to hash it out again but consider this: The resort fee of $10.00 pp pd is not about tipping for good service.... It is an additional charge to your bill and that you have no say....I ask you where do you draw the line on a company adding to your purchase any fee... Will you agree to $15 pp pd? How about $25 pp pd or $50 pp pd... for a cruise or an airline flight.... It can get silly!

You are in agreement that any company can add an additional fee to your purchase? Say a McDonald's fee of $1.00 pp per visit to pay for employees dental insurance... Yes!... Then a $5.00 pp per visit for the local cafe to cover employees health insurance...No? Then a luxury type tax on your new SUV, not by the government but by the local dealer to help finance his son's college education... This is not about tipping an employee by you any amount you chose... This is about a company that is going to try to add to your bill a fee that will help the company make a profit and / or pay for benefits to it's employees... Can you tell me of any company doing anything like that and you support them....[/QUOTE]
AMEN!