Since Carnival Took Over HAL....

[cruisnfool]

The only ones I read about are the newer Costa ships...they used the same body for the basics and Joe helps with the designs......haven't been on them just read it on these boards.

 

I also saw pictures of the newer Costa ships that they also look like Carnival designs in the lobby.

[kryos]

I also had my neck hairs stand up when Kyros lumped RCI with CArnival.

I would never put those two ships in the same class. Unless Carnival has changed to bring itself UP to RCI than I stand corrected.

I think, though, that the two lines are quite similar in terms of the type of passengers they attract. Not saying a Carnival passenger is necessarily any better or worse than a HAL passenger ... just that they are different, and they probably cruise for different reasons.

 

Both Carnival and RCI attract the family cruiser ... shorter cruises, lots of high energy. Both lines, in my opinion, foster the same type of party atmosphere onboard. Nothing wrong with that ... but just not the environment that I prefer to immerse myself in while cruising.

 

My judgment here is based solely on the ammenities offered onboard most Carnival and RCI ships ... they are just the types of things that would clearly attract a younger crowd of people. Also, many of their itineraries are shorter ... five to seven days ... some even less. This fact too lends itself to the younger cruiser who may not have the necessary vacation time available to take the longer cruises that HAL offers.

 

As for specifics as to Carnival and RCI ... food, ambience, etc. ... I wasn't comparing them. Perhaps they are as different as night and day. To be honest, I've never sailed either line ... but can easily determine the type of passengers they attract simply from the advertised ship ammenties. After all, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that your average HAL cruiser (older, appreciating the more "refined" aspects of the cruising experience) would find a rock climbing wall as a "got to have" cruise ship experience. Hence, they wouldn't be apt to sail a ship having one. But the family cruiser ... mom, dad, the kids, etc. ... eat that stuff up. The kids are happy, having fun ... meaning mom and dad are happy ... having fun as well. So, those are the people who would flock to RCI ... and Carnival too with some of their family-style ammenities.

 

So, that is what I meant when I lumped Carnival and RCI into the same sentence ... just the type of cruise experience the two lines offer is similar. That's all.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I also think Carnival now considers Cunard its ``Tiffany'' line instead of HAL, which was a major reason for Carnival wanting HAL in the first place.

It's funny, but I have two cruises booked for next year ... an 18-day on HAL and a 5-day crossing on Cunard. The HAL cruise has dropped in price several times since we booked it, and we keep taking advantage of these price drops. However, Cunard has not dropped one cent and at this point, I am actually paying more for the TA crossing on Cunard than I am for an 18-day sailing on the Veendam.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[DFD1]

Rita, It sounds like you have that Veendam 18dayer at a hell of a good price.

 

I'd be curious to know, when you have them both behind you, which one you enjoyed most.

 

Take care.

[kryos]

Rita, It sounds like you have that Veendam 18dayer at a hell of a good price.

 

I'd be curious to know, when you have them both behind you, which one you enjoyed most.

Oh, I have no doubt ... the Veendam will surely be my favorite. I'm sure the Queen is much more formal ... and that's gonna be rough for me. :)

 

But the QE2 will probably be a once-in-a-lifetime type experience, and for that it is worth the price of sailing her. Of course, avoiding an international flight from Venice, Italy back to the States makes the price of the QE2 worth it too. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[bepsf]

Again.....Carnival has more to say than just casinos......the ships are built on same bodies, joe farcus helps with designs and management is being shared.......

[\quote]

 

Joe Farcus has absolutely nothing to do with any HAL interiors - they are (except for Prinsendam) designed by Frans Dingemans of VFD Architects.

Incidentally, the S and R-Class ships are completely unique hulls to HAL and the Vistas are based on the 8000-Series hull which was first designed for Costa's Mediterraneana and Atlantica then borrowed for Carnival Legend & Spirit, then extensively revamped for the Vistas, P&O's Arcadia & Cunard's QV

[bepsf]

Ya know, I remember that it's what I've been told - but for the life of me I can't remember who told me!

:o

 

Now I remember where I learned that HAL has been profitable all these years - "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea". It's a good read about the US cruise industry from the early years through the battle over P&O/Princess

[DFD1]

Brian, I enjoy reading and learning from your knowledge about this industry.

 

You're right about "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea". I read it based on the suggestion from a thread here and I enjoyed it very much.

 

Take Care...

[DFD1]

Brian, I enjoy reading and learning from your knowledge about this industry.

 

You're right about "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea". I read it based on the suggestion from a thread here and I enjoyed it very much.

 

Take Care...

[noblepa]

Now I remember where I learned that HAL has been profitable all these years - "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea". It's a good read about the US cruise industry from the early years through the battle over P&O/Princess

 

I doubt that CCL would have approved the construction of the four Vista class ships, plus the upcoming Signature class ship (or ships if they excercise their option for a second one), had the line not been profitable.

 

As far as the size of the ships and the level of luxury, its kind of a spiral. The larger ships, I'm sure, cost less to build and operate on a per-passenger basis than do the smaller ships. That's why many lines are building them.

 

However, the flip side of that coin is that customers paying higher prices want exclusivity, which is difficult to maintain on a line with 20 or 30 ships, each carrying upwards of 3,000 passengers. So the line MUST further lower costs by cutting back on the level of service. HAL is getting closer and closer to that level, with 13 ships now, 14 when the Eurodam joins the fleet. Carnival has long-since passed that point.

 

Paul Noble

[cruisnfool]

Brian.....I am glad to hear that Joe Farcus has nothing to do with the designs of the HAL ships...we are looking forward to the traditional clasic atmosphere.

[bepsf]

However, the flip side of that coin is that customers paying higher prices want exclusivity, which is difficult to maintain on a line with 20 or 30 ships, each carrying upwards of 3,000 passengers. So the line MUST further lower costs by cutting back on the level of service. HAL is getting closer and closer to that level, with 13 ships now, 14 when the Eurodam joins the fleet. Carnival has long-since passed that point.

 

Paul Noble

 

True, but at least the planned HAL ships are nowhere near the 3000/pax size that some other "Premium" lines are approaching...

[fcorey]

Again.....Carnival has more to say than just casinos......the ships are built on same bodies, joe farcus helps with designs and management is being shared.......

[\quote]

 

Joe Farcus has absolutely nothing to do with any HAL interiors - they are (except for Prinsendam) designed by Frans Dingemans of VFD Architects.

 

Incidentally, the S and R-Class ships are completely unique hulls to HAL and the Vistas are based on the 8000-Series hull which was first designed for Costa's Mediterraneana and Atlantica then borrowed for Carnival Legend & Spirit, then extensively revamped for the Vistas, P&O's Arcadia & Cunard's QV

 

Brian, just as the ship as a manufacturer's plate from Fincantieri, there is also a plate of sorts from VFD. I found the one on Oosterdam purely by accident, it had two coins set into a clear plexi material with a small brass plate and Mr. Dingemans' signature

 

As far as size goes its just a matter of numbers. Mr. Deering said that a group could charter Oosterdam for a week for about $2 million. Multiply that by 52 weeks and you get $104 Million per year. The average ship is costing about $400 - $500 million. The more passengers per ship the more opportunity to make money from things like casino, spa etc. The faster they get the investment in the ship back. I think HAL has to be applauded for not going the megaship route. That was the first thing that turned me off to Princess, the massive ships, same goes for RCCL. Not that they arent beautiful, I am sure I could have a great time, but my DW would be miserable :)

 

I think that a 5-10% increase in fares would help restore the perks most are missing. But would they still be able to fill the ships?