Friends of Dorothy

[michris17]

I know this is a tedius question but what is Friend of Dorothy

? I've been on 4 cruises and haven't figured this out. I believe Friends of Bill W are AA meetings and I'm guessing Friends of Dorothy are GA meetings?? Just wondering---been one of those things it bugs you till you know...

[yst347]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Dorothy_Society

[yearnin4cruisin]

Friends of Dorothy (FOD) is kind of code for being a gay or lesbian passenger.

[michris17]

Thanks

[SeaTeacher]

OP: It's interesting that you posted this question in the Gay & Lesbian cruiser section. You must have had an idea of what the answer was already.

[gfsmith]

OP: It's interesting that you posted this question in the Gay & Lesbian cruiser section. You must have had an idea of what the answer was already.

 

I am under the carnival section and the OP posted it here. It was moved by the moderaters i believe.

[JDRMYS]

I know this is a tedius question but what is Friend of Dorothy

? I've been on 4 cruises and haven't figured this out. I believe Friends of Bill W are AA meetings and I'm guessing Friends of Dorothy are GA meetings?? Just wondering---been one of those things it bugs you till you know...

 

"GA" meetings! Just the thought that anyone would think that there would be "Gay Anonymous" groups is really insulting. Alcoholism is a debilitating physical disease which millions of brave people are able to fight day by day with the help of their peers at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. Being GLBT is not being diseased! Even if the OP is not aware of his or her mistake, suggesting that there might be "GA" groups is a form of homophobia.

 

Come to think of it, calling meetings of GLBT cruisers "FOD meetings" instead of "meetings of GLBT cruisers" is also somewhat homophobic. Do we still have to use a coded euphemism so that straight cruisers won't know that we are queer?

[mariakitty]

Doesn't " GA" stand for gamblers anonymous? It never entered my mind that the poster was referring to "gays anonymous.

[Joe and Ivan]

Come to think of it, calling meetings of GLBT cruisers "FOD meetings" instead of "meetings of GLBT cruisers" is also somewhat homophobic. Do we still have to use a coded euphemism so that straight cruisers won't know that we are queer?

 

A rose by any other name is still a very wonderful rose. Some of us prefer the historical patina of "Friends of Dorothy" to the alphabet soup necessary to be sure you're including absolutely everyone of concern. Besides, "Friends of" makes it clear that you don't have to be a G, an L, a B, or a T to attend the gatherings. Our last meetings on the Oceania Regatta were attended by a heterosexual couple, a Protestant minister and his wife, who wanted to make it clear that they thought we belonged among God's children also.

 

Ivan

[wadenmd]

it's a social hosted by the cruise line for gay people to meet

[Schplinky]

"GA" meetings! Just the thought that anyone would think that there would be "Gay Anonymous" groups is really insulting. Alcoholism is a debilitating physical disease which millions of brave people are able to fight day by day with the help of their peers at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. Being GLBT is not being diseased! Even if the OP is not aware of his or her mistake, suggesting that there might be "GA" groups is a form of homophobia.

 

Come to think of it, calling meetings of GLBT cruisers "FOD meetings" instead of "meetings of GLBT cruisers" is also somewhat homophobic. Do we still have to use a coded euphemism so that straight cruisers won't know that we are queer?

 

I saw GA and thought Gay Alliance.

 

I don't like the term FOD, mostly because I think it's dated and folks have no idea what it means.

 

That said, for my own part, I don't like the term queer, so I guess everyone has their own preferences.

[rienreiter]

I only learned of FOD when I joined Cruise Critic. But I admit to being stumped when I saw "GA." That one really left me clueless.

[sneakerstud]

Why do you think they put the Friends of "Bill W" always in the most secluded spot on the ship and the Friends of "Dorothy" into the most popular bar at the best time before dinner???? Because we are all knowing as friends of D. that we do not need to hide and can have as many Martinis as we want!

 

"GA" meetings! Just the thought that anyone would think that there would be "Gay Anonymous" groups is really insulting. Alcoholism is a debilitating physical disease which millions of brave people are able to fight day by day with the help of their peers at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. Being GLBT is not being diseased! Even if the OP is not aware of his or her mistake, suggesting that there might be "GA" groups is a form of homophobia.

 

Come to think of it, calling meetings of GLBT cruisers "FOD meetings" instead of "meetings of GLBT cruisers" is also somewhat homophobic. Do we still have to use a coded euphemism so that straight cruisers won't know that we are queer?

[Joe and Ivan]

There's a good discussion of the Friends of Dorothy at this Cruise Critics link:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/cruisestyles/articles.cfm?ID=188

 

Ivan

[gwasdin]

I realize that it is impossible to come up with terminology that pleases everyone, I really hate using the FOD. For starters, fewer and fewer of us know that FOD refers to us! It's a bit dated. Also, not a term used much outside of the US, so many international cruisers are clueless. I also just dislike using it, because it makes me feel like we are still hiding. Why use secret codes....come on out and say it! (And btw, they don't always put us in the best bars....last cruise on the Pride of Hawaii, they stuck us up in the Beer Garden. Ugh. Talk about not doing your market research!)

 

G

[Schplinky]

The CD put it in the busiest bar on the ship, on Constellation, which was no favor either. You had no idea who was there for the party and who was just there because it was between dinner seatings and it was the martini bar. Well, ok, with some people, you do have some idea...

[Blazerboy]

Well, ok, with some people, you do have some idea...

HEY! You talkin' trash about me again???;)

 

I, being the San Francisco 'radical' that I am:rolleyes: , understand the reluctance to go back in the closet, and have often thought that the FOD term is not the right one. And then I realized it wasn't all about me....:D

 

I'm about as out as they get on a cruise, so even if the FOD meeting is down in the bilge at midnight (oooh...but that's another story...), there's very little chance that anyone who meets on the ship me isn't going to know...no, not because I have matching feather boas to all my blazers, but because it does naturally get worked in to every conversation, and my partner and I are openly affectionate. We don't mack on the dance floor, but I do call him sweetheart or honey, and I put my arm around him when we look out to sea, or stroll, etc. I introduce him as my partner, and, if anyone doesn't get that ("Oh, what type of law do you practice?") I always clarify.

 

This last trip, I went to lunch in the dining room alone for some reason, and was seated with three couples. Finally, after small talk around the table, one woman (60's, retired, from Northern New Jersey for whatever stereotype that congers up) to my left asked about my wife, and used the "she" pronoun. I said "actually I'm not married, and I'm traveling with my partner." Without missing a beat, she switched the pronouns to "he" and merrily (gaily?) kept on chatting...her husband was just as nice, and kept chatting with me for the rest of the cruise....

 

O.k., as usual, takes me a while to get to my point. While I'm going to be as out as I want, I also respect those that wouldn't feel comfortable, and are still closeted. While I hope with the above actions, I demonstrate that no one needs to feel uncomfortable, I leave that to them.

 

Cruisers have tended, until recently, to be older, and many gay men who've crusied a lot come from a different generation, where being closeted is ingrained. As time goes by, the name FOD will not only mean less, but be less necessary....Until that time, let's let the tradition continue, but also be out on the ships, approach other couples, chat them up, and, if they're clueless about FOD, educate them. :)

 

Because, just as I hate being in the closet, I also hate when our community forgets the history of the struggle, including not knowing what some of us had to go through...Until such time as they put it in school text books, it's up to us all to read up on Gay history, just as we would on any other subject or group! (stepping down off the soap box, cue sappy music now...)

 

Thus maybe we should have "Know your HOMO HISTORY" week.:D

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew

[SeaTeacher]

I agree with Blaserboy. But I must admit sensitivity to the "FOD is a closeted term" argument. No one has EVER accused me of being in the closet ( I came out in high school in 1983), and I certainly have my share of resentment for those who are closeted - especially those who behave hypocritically.

 

However, to me the term Friends of Dorothy is a wonderful old chestnut. It's a historical reference to a time when almost everyone was closeted. It reminds me how far we have come (and still have to go). And much of cruising to me is reminiscent of an older romantic time when ocean liners were queens of the ocean (pun intended!).

 

The thing I resent, is those who say, "If you know what Friend of Dorothy means, you must be old!" How rude! I am 41 - that isn't old! I am in the prime of me life, thank you very much. I have an appreciation for history and I like the term FOD. Call me selfish, but i don't think ALL straight people have to know EVERYTHING about gay life. Perhaps we just need to do a better job of educating the youngin's who are joining the family. Hmmm....where is my gay manual. Perhaps I too need a refresher course.

[Schplinky]

 

The thing I resent, is those who say, "If you know what Friend of Dorothy means, you must be old!" How rude! I am 41 - that isn't old! I am in the prime of me life, thank you very much. I have an appreciation for history and I like the term FOD. Call me selfish, but i don't think ALL straight people have to know EVERYTHING about gay life. Perhaps we just need to do a better job of educating the youngin's who are joining the family. Hmmm....where is my gay manual. Perhaps I too need a refresher course.

 

I don't think 41 is old (I'm 40 myself) but I think that it matters more how long you've been out. Ive only been out about 7 years and I have to say I had no idea what the heck FOD meant the first time. I've never seen Wizard of Oz and then, on this board, I learned it is about Dorothy Parker and not little Judy Garland. Had I come out when I was twenty, think about how much furthe rahead I would be?

[JDRMYS]

Cruisers have tended, until recently, to be older, and many gay men who've crusied a lot come from a different generation, where being closeted is ingrained. As time goes by, the name FOD will not only mean less, but be less necessary....Until that time, let's let the tradition continue, but also be out on the ships, approach other couples, chat them up, and, if they're clueless about FOD, educate them. :)

 

Because, just as I hate being in the closet, I also hate when our community forgets the history of the struggle, including not knowing what some of us had to go through...Until such time as they put it in school text books, it's up to us all to read up on Gay history, just as we would on any other subject or group! (stepping down off the soap box, cue sappy music now...)

 

Thus maybe we should have "Know your HOMO HISTORY" week.:D

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew

[yst347]

If “FOD” is too archaic, has anyone asked for a better term? Would “Gay Cruiser Meet and Greet” be better?

 

If the purpose of the social isn’t for singles, isn’t it closeting by definition? Why would couples feel the need to segregate themselves from others?

[JDRMYS]

Cruisers have tended, until recently, to be older, and many gay men who've crusied a lot come from a different generation, where being closeted is ingrained. As time goes by, the name FOD will not only mean less, but be less necessary....Until that time, let's let the tradition continue, but also be out on the ships, approach other couples, chat them up, and, if they're clueless about FOD, educate them. :)

 

Because, just as I hate being in the closet, I also hate when our community forgets the history of the struggle, including not knowing what some of us had to go through...Until such time as they put it in school text books, it's up to us all to read up on Gay history, just as we would on any other subject or group! (stepping down off the soap box, cue sappy music now...)

 

Thus maybe we should have "Know your HOMO HISTORY" week.:D

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew

 

PLEASE DISREGARD THIS POST. I MADE A MISTAKE TRYING TO REPLY TO ANDREW'S POST.

[Stuart&John]

I agree with Blaserboy. But I must admit sensitivity to the "FOD is a closeted term" argument. No one has EVER accused me of being in the closet ( I came out in high school in 1983), and I certainly have my share of resentment for those who are closeted - especially those who behave hypocritically.

 

However, to me the term Friends of Dorothy is a wonderful old chestnut. It's a historical reference to a time when almost everyone was closeted. It reminds me how far we have come (and still have to go). And much of cruising to me is reminiscent of an older romantic time when ocean liners were queens of the ocean (pun intended!).

 

The thing I resent, is those who say, "If you know what Friend of Dorothy means, you must be old!" How rude! I am 41 - that isn't old! I am in the prime of me life, thank you very much. I have an appreciation for history and I like the term FOD. Call me selfish, but i don't think ALL straight people have to know EVERYTHING about gay life. Perhaps we just need to do a better job of educating the youngin's who are joining the family. Hmmm....where is my gay manual. Perhaps I too need a refresher course.

 

I couldn't agree with you (and BlazerBoy) more.

 

Just as the Rose Parade is held on every January 1, and one has something that has been grilled at a July 4 barbeque (even if it's corn on the cob, for the vegans in our crowd), there are certain things that are the way they are simply because they are a TRADITION.

 

As long as we are on the subject, one "tradition" that I have never quite wrapped myself around is the adoption of the pink triangle as a symbol of gay pride. In my family, which lost members during the Holocaust, I can think of nothing more self-persecuting than wearing a pink triangle.

 

'Nuff said. Getting of my soapbox now.

 

Stuart

[Stuart&John]

 

I couldn't agree with you (and BlazerBoy) more.

 

 

Sorry...just realized that my prior post could be construed as angry or inflexible. I don't mean it to be. I just have been finding lately that there is a past/history that is slipping away. Sort of the way I felt when the Advocate published its questionnaire where one of the questions was something like "Which singer was part of your coming out process?" And -- as I recall -- the choices were Barbra, Judy, Diana, Madonna, and a fifth that I am not sure I had heard of before. But when the results were released, singer #5 had received the majority of the vote. Which in turn reminded me of why I switched my subscription from OUT to the ADVOCATE a couple of years ago. Maybe, at 43, I am getting older. But, if I am, isn't it my right to do so the best way I know how? (Which I guess, in my case, includes Barbra, Judy and Liza. And don't forget Petula and Shirley Bassey! ;))

 

As charming as I find the term FOD, I am not against a more explicitly worded intention of what an FOD party might be, along the lines of yst's suggestion of "Gay Cruiser Meet & Greet."

 

I am not at all against moving forward. It's the forgetting our past (and some quaint traditions), or traipsing over them as if they didn't/don't matter to an entire generation that saddens me.

 

(Ironically, though, in all the cruises we have taken , I think there have only been two sailings on which there have been FOD parties advertised in the daily program. One HAL, and one Princess. Both within the past 12 months. I always knew to look for them, but those were the first times that they were actually in the schedule.)

[Schplinky]

Stuart,

 

I didn't find your first post to be argumentative or angry. I like that this has been a civil conversation.

 

Someone at work asked me about "queer" lately because there is an employee network where I work for gay, lesbian, transgendered, bisexual, two-spritied, queer and questioning folk (can you tell I work in a bureaucracy?) and she didn't know why gay was different than "queer." In looking it up in a couple of online sources, it seems that "queer" was adopted by some gay men who had meant to reclaim the derogatory term and to be confrontational in combatting homophobia. It was likely the "confrontational" aspect of the word I've been reacting to. I'm frankly not a very confrontational person and the most pointedly I ever express my opinions is online. I have always thought "queer" sounded harsh to my ears. While I'm as out as they come (I think), I'm not very confrontational. Canadians are much more passive agressive than confrontational. :)

 

I think the pink triangle logo is meant to re-claim the symbol, in a similar way. That said, I think it's a lot like Shirley Bassey, Friends of Dorothy and the rest and is fading away in favour of the rainbow. I think that if you asked many straight people or even young gay ones these days to name a symbol they associate with the gays, they would say the rainbow.