Which ship?

[Orcrone]

My mom is taking her whole family on a cruise for her 75th birthday. We're leaving March 26 on a 7 day eastern Caribbean cruise. We're deciding between the HAL Zuiderdam and the Caribbean Princess. The Caribbean Princess is almost $250 pp more. However, my mom really likes the looks of that ship.

 

Her and her husband are in their mid to late 70s, but pretty active for their age. DW and I, along with my brother and his partner are in our early 40s. Our two daughters will be 15 and 17 at the time.

 

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

[DFD1]

I would expect the pace and tempo of the HAL cruise would be a bit more "mature" than the Princess. However, I understand the Zuiderdam is decorated in bright, jazzy colors and has a somewhat more "with it" look than other HAL ships. So far as service goes, my experience gives HAL the edge over Princess. Bottom line for me would be that either cruise would be "fine and fun" DFD1

[jhannah]

I'd say it's a toss-up. If the teens were a bit younger, I'd go with Princess. Their kids program would likely be a bit more to their liking. But since 15 and 17 year olds primarily hang in the teen center (vs. organized activities) the Zuiderdam would be a great ship. Caribbean Princess is newer (not that the Zuiderdam is old by any stretch) so that could be a plus for them. As I said at first, it would be a real toss-up for me.

[gizmo]

Let your Mom pick. Do some heavy duty pricing on the internet. You may just get closer in price to both.

 

The Zuiderdam leaves a lot to be desired in decor and layout. I have only seen pictures so this is not first hand knowledge. Many dislike the decor and layout, where others seems to think it is nice. Different strokes for different folkes. This doesn't mean you cannot have a good time.

 

Have a nice cruise on whatever ship you pick.:)

[Orcrone]

Thanks everyone. I actually did the shopping the price difference seems pretty consistant regardless of the agency. It also includes promo 7031 with HAL which is a $50 pp shipboard credit.

 

My mom seems to like the size of the Princess ship (none of us have been on a ship that big) as well as features like the "theater under the stars". I'm a little nervous about a ship with a 3100 person capacity. During spring break it's sure to be higher than that.

 

Tomorrow she's going to get a HAL brochure (she already has one from Princess) and decide.

[DFD1]

The size of the ship can have an important bearing on the enjoyment of the cruise. One of the reasons for HAL's success over the years is the smaller size of the HAL ships. I have cruised on all sizes and I always seem to have a better cruise on a smaller ship. The Zuiderdam has an important advantage in this regard in that she carries only about 60% of the number of passengers carried on the Princess ship. DFD1

[dougnewmanatsea]

Honestly I'd choose ZUIDERDAM over CARIBBEAN PRINCESS any day. I haven't been on CARIBBEAN PRINCESS but she is of similar design to GRAND PRINCESS which I spent two weeks on in the Med a couple of years back.

 

My impressions of Princess as a cruise line probably aren't very current (at the time I liked them a lot, but there have been big changes since so I don't feel very qualified to comment) but as far as the ships, I think ZUIDERDAM is superior.

 

The thing that really gives me pause about CARIBBEAN PRINCESS is that she's basically the same as GRAND PRINCESS (or GOLDEN, STAR, DIAMOND, SAPPHIRE) but with an extra deck of cabins added. However, there hasn't been much expansion in the public areas, which means less space per passenger. I'm not going to say that she's crowded, as I can't know that, but they are putting more passengers into basically the same size ship, which can't help.

 

I think the problems with ZUIDERDAM's layout and decor have been rather overblown. Yes, her decor is brighter than probably any other HAL ship (maybe not WESTERDAM). No, not everyone loves it. No, it's not that terribly different from other HAL ships'. Yes, there are some design flaws, notably the horribly designed Queens Lounge. She is not a perfect ship but all in all she's still quite good.

 

GRAND PRINCESS is at least as imperfect, layout-wise, as ZUIDERDAM. CARIBBEAN PRINCESS has minor differences but again the only really important one is all those extra cabins, and thus extra pax, which can only exaggerate what flaws are there. The decor comparison is like night and day; ZUIDERDAM's decor is much more sophisticated and creative and probably more likely to be disliked. Princess ships' decor is generally bland and inoffensive. Few people hate it but it's nothing special.

 

In the end, at the same price, I'd say it's a matter of preference. However, considering the average price of a 7-day Caribbean cruise these days, I would say that a $250 pp price difference is probably not worth it when comparing any two good middle-market ships, and here it's no different. It happens that my personal preference would be for the less expensive vessel but I don't think I could justify $250 pp more for ZUIDERDAM over CARIBBEAN PRINCESS either.

 

Whatever you choose, have a great cruise and do let us know what happens.

[gizmo]

One other thing to consider is Personal Choice on Princess. It sounds good in the brochures, but it doesn't always work out Sometime theres are waits to get in to eat. If you eat very early or very late is when it works out ok.

[peaches from georgia]

Just throwing this question out there since PC dining on Princess was just mentioned. There are 8 people in Orcrone's party. Wouldn't there be a reasonable chance that a group this size may have more of a problem getting seated together at the time they desired to eat than a party of 2 or 4 would?

[Orcrone]

Doug,

 

After posting my question I read the CC review of the Princess and saw the comment about the extra deck. It holds about 3100 passengers, which is the same amount as the largest RCI ships, which are about 30,000 tons larger. And keep in mind that this is spring break week, so the odds are that this ship will have significantly more people.

 

I was on Carnival last year during spring break with 2600+ people on a 70,000 ton ship. Had a great time, but I don't need more people. I also can get a verandah on the Zuiderdam for only $64 pp more than the outside. Also, HAL goes to Tortola where I've never been. So my vote is probably for the Z, but as mom is paying for this she'll obviously have the final say.

 

She doesn't mind spending the extra money because she says she's just spending our inheritance.:D

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

 

Do think that your parent's would enjoy HAL much more than Princess.

We gave them up years ago when they started this Personel Choice dining. Our TA did a Princess with her husband, 2 kids and her parents. Every evening they had trouble getting a table for 6. That was a couple of years ago and they have never been back on Princess.

One time several years ago we did an Easter cruise on Princess - never again. TOO,TOO many kids.

:)

[Orcrone]

:)

 

Do think that your parent's would enjoy HAL much more than Princess.

 

We gave them up years ago when they started this Personel Choice dining. Our TA did a Princess with her husband, 2 kids and her parents. Every evening they had trouble getting a table for 6. That was a couple of years ago and they have never been back on Princess.

 

One time several years ago we did an Easter cruise on Princess - never again. TOO,TOO many kids.

 

:)

 

Peaches and KK, you may have given me the best reason to stick with HAL. Wouldn't be much fun if we couldn't get tables together, or if we had to wait a long time for a table for 8.

 

As far as which they would enjoy they've been on a number of cruise lines and I believe they enjoyed Celebrity the most. But they don't have a strong preference. They've never tried Carnival or RCI. They said Carnival was out. They were very interested in RCI, but that week was extremely expensive on the RCI ships out of FLL and Miami. They were on HAL once and thought it was very nice (don't know what ship), but they've never been on Princess.

 

I think I'll mosey over to the Princess board and ask them about trouble getting a table for eight during spring break. Right now I'm leaning towards calling my mom and saying let's do the Z and go for balconies.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

 

Orcrone - anytime you can get a balconey on any ship for about the same money on another cruise line where you have "just a cabin" - go for it.

:)

[Orcrone]

:)

 

Orcrone - anytime you can get a balconey on any ship for about the same money on another cruise line where you have "just a cabin" - go for it.

 

:)

My brother and I think it's a no-brainer. It's still $175 less per person than Princess when you factor in the HAL shipboard credit. It's not a suite, essentially just a regular room with a balcony, but that beats a regular room without one. I think we're making our decision today. I have to update my signature. Hate those ??????:D

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

 

Orcrone - everyone will love HAL. The size of the balconey doesn't matter - they are great.

:)

[Mary Ellen]

Wouldn't be much fun if we couldn't get tables together, or if we had to wait a long time for a table for 8.

Unless you are all on the same booking number, be sure your TA(s) double, double, double check that you ARE all at the same table.

 

Last summer on the Zaandam we had our family(8) to celebrate my Dad's 80th birthday (and DB & step-mom's birthdays). Even though our bookings were 'linked' we wound up at different tables - us, DB/SIL and the 'parental units' (DF/step-mom) at a table for 6 and my 2 half-sisters a different table.

 

We tried to get it changed on-board the first day, but they were NO help. So, we called my cousin (owner of TA we all used), he called the HAL rep. They were told that we were offered a different table - but turned it down. HELLO - my DB uses a powered wheelchair and that table was in the elevated part of the lower level (NO ramp - just steps), step-mom can't do steps either. Two of the cabins we had were handicap, that should have been a clue. Why they couldn't ask a table of 8, in an asccessible area, to take that table and put us at their table, I don't know. To put it tackfully as I can, the on-board attitude sucked.

 

We did have a nice cruise, but every night at dinner was depressing. We had thought that even doing different things during the day, we'd all be together then. Since we live in different parts of the country, it would have been nice. :(

 

There was some mix-up between Seattle & the ship. Seattle had the bookings linked, but the ship didn't. So, immediately after boarding compare table assignments and take action if needed.

 

Good luck -

[Orcrone]

Mary Ellen,

 

I'm sorry that they screwed up like that and couldn't right the situation. I'll definitely learn from your lesson and check a number of times, including when we step foot on the ship.

 

BTW, we've decided on the Zuiderdam. Just waiting to hear back from my brother to choose the rooms. Should hopefully be booked soon.:D

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

 

One time another couple and we decided to take a cruise together. We don't live in the same state and used different travel agencies. We gave the names to our TA whom we wanted to sit at our table and they did the same thing with their TA. We requested a certain table number. When we all got on the ship, we checked to make certain that we were seated at the same table. Our request had been granted. If it hadn't we were ready to go see the maitr'd as soon as possible.

:)

[pucarter]

Orcrone,

 

Without knowing much more than 8 people, Spring Break, and 70-75 year olds I think you've made a great choice.

 

I HAVE been on both CP and Z -- CP in June and Z just two weeks ago. I'm 34, DH is 43 and his kids (who went with us on CP) are 13 and 10.

 

SERVICE: CP was sub-par in our books. From our room attendant to the friendliness of wait staff / bar staff / etc., they couldn't hold a candle to the people we encountered on HAL.

 

FOOD: Our family used personal choice dining and subsequently ate in the buffets most meals. While we LOVED the CP Pizza, Hamburgers, Bratwurst etc., we gave the food an average of "C" (and I was the most generous with a C+!!!). We thoroughly enjoyed HAL's buffet simply from the standpoint that it flowed really well and there were so many stations at which to get food it seemed that no one place was ever too crowded. By the way -- one of my husband's major dislikes about CP was that every time we went in there the crew were going through the line with everyone else. It was as if Princess took away the crew dining facilities and they had to eat in there with us. Many times they'd all be sprawled out at large tables having a "good old time" while we were just trying to find a place for the four of us. I will tell you that HAL also let their crew dine at the same time as the passengers, but many times they'd open a separate line and place "Crew Only" signs to clearly delineate the areas. DH was cool with that. It's a matter of taste, but it also harkens back to the service aspect. One more thing about dining -- we only did a formal dinner once on CP and were very unhappy with the server. Not so much with her personally, but she had so many people to take care of that the service was really dismal. We never did eat in the dining room on Z but we did eat at the Odyssey Grill 3 nights (obviously we loved it). If you think you may want to try the Odyssey, I'd recommend eating there on the first night -- it's only $10 per person instead of the normal $20 and you can pre-arrange your dinner that night by calling Ship Services and charging it as if it were a birthday or sailaway package. We did that and were SO pleased that we did.

 

STATEROOMS: On CP we had a balcony and the kids were across the hall from us in an inside. Other than the balcony, the staterooms (and space inside) were IDENTICAL. Very roomy -- we LOVED the closet area with more hangers than even we could use. Bathroom was well lit. We weren't so thrilled with our Z cabin, but then again we did an inside guarantee and "you get what you pay for." It was TEENSY. Of course if you're getting outside cabins, they're sure to be larger. We did a lot of backing up and "Are you out of the way of the door?" while we were in the cabin on Z.

 

ENTERTAINMENT: Z took the prize for entertainment. Especially the show with the Bob Mackie costumes. I'm laughing at myself as I write this, because when I saw it in the program I was like "BIG DEAL...Bob Mackie..." but then we went and saw it and I was blown away -- they did a really good job. CP had a far better Cruise Director, though in Graham Seymour. Of course it's unfair to compare lines based on CDs because they change ships so much.

 

SHIP LAYOUT: First of all, we've been on two "Mega-Ships" (including CP) and three smaller ships (such as Z) -- I'm much more a fan of the small ship. When the highest an elevator goes is Deck 10 or 11, I'm fine with that. I don't want to wait around for an elevator that is up at Deck 16 and loaded with 100 of my "closest friends." I felt really closed in on CP, but to be honest the Lido Pool area in Z is totally enclosed (except for the retractable roof) -- we spent minimal time at the Lido -- any pool time on Z was spent at the "adult" aft pool (where the water was strangely green -- I put that on my comment sheet -- "Is the water supposed to be that shade of green?" To be honest, we didn't spend much time at the pools on Z.

 

SPA SERVICES: On CP my step-daughter and I each had a treatment. I liked that they had youth spa services for those aged 13 - 18 and that you could pre-book your treatment before leaving. I wasn't thrilled with the thermal room and lack of an aromatherapy steam room. On Z my husband and I splurged the $120 each for a week-long pass to the Hydro-Pool and Thermal Suite. To us it was WORTH EVERY PENNY! First of all, we made sure we were in a Termal Suite lounger for each port departure. Laying on those warm tiles and watching our last port through the floor-to-ceiling windows made up incredibly for that teensy inside cabin I already mentioned. Also, the hydrotherapy pool felt SO good and was blissfully childless. That's where we spent most of our sea days and afternoons on port days. (And they did have a yummy aromatherapy steam room and four scented showers)

 

PRIVATE ISLANDS: We're not usually impressed by the private islands or beaches because we're spoiled by living on the Emerald Coast of Florida where the sand is soft and sugar-white. But both Princess Cays and Half Moon Cay had their plusses. On Princess Cays we loved how they cut up fresh fruit and you could walk up and help yourself to chunks of fresh pineapple or watermelon whenever you desired. Half Moon Cay had THE SOFTEST SAND I'VE EVER FELT IN MY LIFE!!! It was like walking through talcum powder -- absolute heaven.

 

DRINKS: The "adult beverages" on CP impressed us by value -- I don't know where else I could get a delicious 32 oz frozen margarita for $7! But the libations on Z were absolutely dreamy. If I could have one of those bartenders making me a "signature drink" every day of my life I'd be a happy camper. Not that I'm a drunk or an alcoholic or anything, but in our family it's well known that the bar tab will be the largest portion of our cruise bill -- we just enjoy good cocktails on cruises. And boy did they make good ones on Z.

 

SPACE: Both of the cruises I've been comparing were FULL, FULL, FULL when we were on them. I felt like I was constantly falling over other people on CP. On Z, I sometimes wondered where everyone was. And here's the kicker -- we had 300 more people than the 1,800 capacity on Z! Apparently all the suites were maxed with the pullout sofas and stuff, so we had even more people than normal and it STILL wasn't bad. I'm not a crowd person, so I like space (I know, I know -- if I'm not crazy about crowds what am I doing on a cruise in the summer?!? Don't ask. :rolleyes: ). The Z had ample space per passenger. I think that on Spring Break the hard-partying crowd will gravitate to the CP and you'll have a more mellow (but not OLD) crowd on Z. We found the age range to be right at our ages on both, but there were so many more people on CP that it seemed younger and more party-ish.

 

SUMMARY: I think you made the right choice. I'd go on the Zuiderdam again in a heartbeat. I'd have to be persuaded to go on Princess, much less the Caribbean Princess, after our experience. Of course one man's trash is another man's treasure, and one's cruise experience depends on so many subjective factors. Either way I'm sure anyone who goes on either of these ships will have a great time!

 

Congratulations on making your reservations (and I'm very jealous! :p ),

Rebeccah

[Orcrone]

pucarter,

 

thanks for your in depth comparison. We're excited. And don't be jealous. There's plenty of staterooms left.:D

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

 

Orcrone - if we weren't already booked for 20 days in Feb/Mar on the Volendam we love to join you.

:)

[dougnewmanatsea]

After posting my question I read the CC review of the Princess and saw the comment about the extra deck. It holds about 3100 passengers, which is the same amount as the largest RCI ships, which are about 30,000 tons larger.

Correct. That's a serious difference in pax/space ratio.

 

We were on ZUIDERDAM during the Easter break and the ship was over 100% full. There was no crowding. Did not experience any crowding on GRAND PRINCESS (also pretty much full when we were aboard) but I would be inclined to say that adding more passengers to a ship designed for fewer pax simply cannot be a good thing.

 

Wouldn't be much fun if we couldn't get tables together, or if we had to wait a long time for a table for 8.

Frankly, if you had gone with Princess, I think with a party of that size it might have been a good idea not to do PC dining, though I have no firsthand experience there so I can't say for sure.

 

PC is one of many changes that have made Princess lose its appeal for me - I'm sure they're still a fine cruise line but they have moved into a different market segment competing largely with RCI and NCL as opposed to HAL and Celebrity (of course competing with HAL wouldn't exactly be great now that they're part of the same corporate group, but the changes were all pre-Carnival anyway). If I'm going to be in that market segment I'd just as soon take RCI with their much more appealing (to me) ships. But overall Princess just doesn't pique my interest any longer. They still have lots of strengths but they've changed and the changes just don't match up with my tastes. However I can't say anything bad about them because my two Princess cruises (4 and 6 years ago) were both absolutely fantastic.

 

It's not a suite, essentially just a regular room with a balcony, but that beats a regular room without one.

I'm not a balcony guy (I won't get into my own anti-balcony theories here) but the balcony cabins on ZUIDERDAM are indeed basically the same as the standard outsides. However the layout is slightly better, and the decor is far more attractive; the standard insides and outsides (which, remember, make up less than two thirds of her cabins) had decor which I found quite pallid. The balcony cabins I saw were decorated in much brighter, more attractive colors.

 

All of the cabins (except for top suites) suffer from numerous little niggling problems that set off detail nuts like myself but all in all they're quite pleasant. The balconies are nicely (albiet artificially) furnished with fake teak decking (looks very fake) and fake wicker furniture (doesn't look so fake, but feels it).

 

For more on ZUIDERDAM, I'd highly recommend that you take a look at this from a maritime-historian friend of mine, Peter Knego. You also might want to take a look at my own ZUIDERDAM gallery (which will be redone sometime when I'm not as ridiculously busy as I am at the moment) and also my review.

[RevNeal]

Doug,

 

Thank you for an excellent collection of photos from the Zui. I especially liked your going to the trouble of scanning in the daily programs! Great idea! I'll have to remember to do that for my next cruise review!

 

I was most amused to read the Zui's dress code wording. :D Didn't sound much like a suggestion to me. Too bad they don't enforce it.

[Orcrone]

:)

 

Orcrone - if we weren't already booked for 20 days in Feb/Mar on the Volendam we love to join you.

 

:)

Love to have you join us. 20, 27 days - what's the difference?;)

[Orcrone]

Doug,

 

Once again thanks for your insight. It's good to hear that you were on the Zuiderdam during spring break and it didn't feel crowded. Also, having never sailed on Princess I did not realize that PC is an option. So I guess we could have just dined at our regular table every night.

 

It turned out that after thinking about it some more my mom decided that getting a balcony for over $100 less per person than an outside room was a no-brainer.

 

So now I've got two countdown clocks in my signature. Gotta love it.:D