Booze Smuggling = Higher Cost?

[L2J]

How much money do you think Carnival looses from peeps smuggling their own booze on board the ships and could it be enough per ship, per week, per month, per year to make an impact on rates and other charges.

 

What do you think? :confused:

 

Nope...not even close.

 

I "smuggle" but I still spend more than what the cruise cost.

[ihhk2]

I don't think it matters much in the grand scheme of things. Looking at the financials from Carnival Corp, they earn on average $1315 per passenger with a net profit of $325 or about 25%.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Peter, do you have a link where I could get more of this kind of information, or do I have to be a stockholder and get the report?

[DarkJedi]

Peter, do you have a link where I could get more of this kind of information, or do I have to be a stockholder and get the report?

 

Just go to Carnival's site and go to Investor Information or somethign similar. If you can't find it there contact Carnival nd request a prospectus.

[ihhk2]

Thank you. I didn't realize they had a link right on their site.

[SueSea]

Sue when you walk into that expensive restuarant you know what you are getting. When a seasoned cruiser books a ship they know what they are getting. You have a choice on a ship as well. You can drink water, coffee and tea for free.

 

Nice try, but you miss the point. On land there are comparable substitutes. You can keep expenses down and have an alcoholic drink at another establishment or at home. In your world, coffee, tea, and water might be a comparable substitute, but to many people it is not. And you didn't address my second point at all--the convenience factor.

 

If the cruise lines were as concerned about booze smuggling as you are, they would be much more diligent about enforcing their policy. They could also take steps to improve drink service to rooms. Personally, I think they know if they take any more of a hard-line approach, it will at worse negatively affect the bottom line and at best negatively affect good will. I also think it's pretty obvious the alcohol policies are more designed to keep people from over imbibing than to prevent lost revenues. After all, if the cruise lines lowered their drink prices, they would sell much more.

[SueSea]

Lost profits? A most conservative approach

2000 pax per ship, 1000 don't drink so there never were any alcohol profits coming from them. 1000 drinkers, 20% smuggle [very conservative] Lets say that reduces their on board purchases by only 2 drinks PER WEEK. At only $5.00 per drink, which would be at least $4.00 profit [even more] or $8.00 profit lost per drinking smuggler per week.

200 drinkers X $8.00 lost profit= $1600.00 X 22 ships=$35200 X 52 weeks= ONE MILLION, EIGHT HUNDRED THIRTY THOUSAND, FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS. Dan

 

I take exception to your guess that 20% of drinkers smuggle. I doubt that it's anywhere close to that. In addition to those who don't drink, there are those who just choose to follow the rules and not smuggle, and there are many first time cruisers that have never had to consider smuggling. Someone posted that 80% of those who post here admit they smuggle. That sounds pretty high until you compare the number that responded to that poll with the total number of people who cruise. Those on these boards are a tiny minority of the cruising public.

 

In your accounting above, you forgot to subtract the revenue lost by eliminating all smuggling. Some won't cruise at all because they feel the cruise line is gouging them. Some of those who smuggle only to drink in their cabins and othewise have a healthy bar bill will decide to not purchase any liquor on board in protest. Some will find other ways to reduce their shipboard account.

 

Cruise drink prices are right in the same range as a middling' expensive hotel bar. Way more than the corner beer joint, but way less than a classy hotel.

 

But even classy hotels do not tell their guest what they can do in their own rooms. Hotels charge whatever they charge for liquor knowing that those who choose not to pay it can go elsewhere. That's an option not available on cruise ships.

[regionboiler]

Yes... but two rights make a left... :D

 

Actually, three rights make a left.

 

Two rights make a u-turn:D

[yst347]

When you come to a fork in the road, it's important that you take it.

 

Yogi Berra

[dan40]

Dan40: I love you. I truly do. However, one flaw in your comment is that to bring a drink into a bar is illegal in the States.

 

On a ship, we are not only not in the States, but aren't ships governed by the flag they fly (country of registry)?

 

Also, just because I have 2 drinks a day in my cabin does NOT necessarily mean I would have those same 2 drinks on deck. I would end up skipping them to stay within budget.

 

Thanx for the love. However I stand by my statement "in most states it is illegal". Most states closely regulate bars. And to bring in your own booze, or to be in possession off illegal alcohol is a violation of some states laws. If a bar [again in some states] was serving untaxed liquor [not bought thru the STATE STORE] and you were paying for it and drinking it. You [as well as the establishment] would be violating the law, even tho you had no idea they were serving untaxed liquor. It used to be, maybe still is, in Utah, you HAD to bring your own liquor in the bar. They were only allowed to serve you [and charge regular mixed drink prices for] your mixers!!! How silly is that. You bring in a bottle of Scotch, intending to have Scotch rocks with a splash of water. You order a rocks glass with ice and a splash of water $4.50 and add your own booze. That is how insane various state liquor laws can be. At one time [pre-jet] airlines had to observe the laws of the state they were over flying. Same with club cars on trains. Passing thru a dry COUNTY, they would come by collect ALL the drinks, then pass them out again when the train crossed the county line. Happened to me on the way to Vietnam.

I would not be surprised to find that some states would consider smuggling liquor aboard a ship[one that is licensed to sell booze while in port] to be in violation of that states liquor laws. I'm not saying this is a fact, just saying that with the insanity that reigns in morality laws, anything is possible and nothing should be overly surprising.

 

Dan

[dan40]

I take exception to your guess that 20% of drinkers smuggle. I doubt that it's anywhere close to that. In addition to those who don't drink, there are those who just choose to follow the rules and not smuggle, and there are many first time cruisers that have never had to consider smuggling. Someone posted that 80% of those who post here admit they smuggle. That sounds pretty high until you compare the number that responded to that poll with the total number of people who cruise. Those on these boards are a tiny minority of the cruising public.

 

In your accounting above, you forgot to subtract the revenue lost by eliminating all smuggling. Some won't cruise at all because they feel the cruise line is gouging them. Some of those who smuggle only to drink in their cabins and othewise have a healthy bar bill will decide to not purchase any liquor on board in protest. Some will find other ways to reduce their shipboard account.

 

 

 

But even classy hotels do not tell their guest what they can do in their own rooms. Hotels charge whatever they charge for liquor knowing that those who choose not to pay it can go elsewhere. That's an option not available on cruise ships.

 

Why would you think that the POLL SHOWING 81% smuggle vs. 19% don't smuggle would not be representative of the public at large? Cruise Criticers may be a small portion of total cruisers but still be a valid sample. And I inverted the proportions of a known sampling. That seems both fair and conservative toward smugglers. If the CC model is correct and 81% is correct for all cruisers, the lost profit would jump from $1.8 mill. to $ 7.2 mill. and thats on just 2 less drinks PER WEEK. Not saying either number is correct, just saying it is a significant number that has to have some effect somewhere.

 

 

And there is NO number to figure the lost profits if all smuggling were stopped by all cruiselines. At most there would be a small dip in bookings for a short period while all adjusted to the new rules, then cruising would continue to enjoy increased popularity. I drink, at one time way too much, and I've never smuggled in FORTY-SEVEN CRUISES, and have run up some hellaicous bar tabs. So non-smuggling has not curtailed my cruising to any extent.

 

Dan

[SueSea]

Why would you think that the POLL SHOWING 81% smuggle vs. 19% don't smuggle would not be representative of the public at large? Cruise Criticers may be a small portion of total cruisers but still be a valid sample. And I inverted the proportions of a known sampling. That seems both fair and conservative toward smugglers. If the CC model is correct and 81% is correct for all cruisers, the lost profit would jump from $1.8 mill. to $ 7.2 mill. and thats on just 2 less drinks PER WEEK. Not saying either number is correct, just saying it is a significant number that has to have some effect somewhere.

 

There are so many holes here. How the poll is worded can greatly affect the results. I assume you are referring to the poll titled, "Bringing Own Liquor." The poll question was a vague, "To Smuggle Or Not," where almost 81% answered Yes. Now, you are inferring that means 81% of the responders smuggle. But the poll does not ask if you smuggle. A Yes response to the question provided could simply mean they agree with smuggling--that doesn't mean they do it. Whether I bring booze on board or not, I would support smuggling.

 

Next issue - you may have used the numbers from a known sampling, but this was not a scientific poll. If the poll is not valid, the results are not valid. It simply prompted people with a strong feeling to respond, it did not promote a truly random sampling. And let's look at the numbers. 573 people out of over 230,000 cruise critic members responded, or less than 3%, which is hardly respresentative of the members here. And according to Carnival Corp's website, in 2005 they had over 7 million passengers on all of their lines, so now poll respondees are .008% of the those cruising on CCL. Add in the passengers on non-CCL lines and you see that the number of members of this board is small compared to the number of cruisers.

 

Now, all that said, let's assume anyway that the 81% of the Yes respondees do smuggle, and that it accurate reflects the number of cruise critic members who smuggle. There is no reason to extrapolate that number to the non-cc board members of the cruising public. People come here for advice and to pick up tips that they otherwise would not have. Those who don't read these boards are nowhere near as likely to know what the booze prices are on board or how long it takes to get a drink in your cabin, so most would have no reason to think about bringing booze on board. Those that do may not even know that it's not allowed and will have theirs confiscated. In fact, there are CC members who didn't even know about smuggling until they saw the poll (read the response of the first poster's on that poll.)

 

And there is NO number to figure the lost profits if all smuggling were stopped by all cruiselines. At most there would be a small dip in bookings for a short period while all adjusted to the new rules, then cruising would continue to enjoy increased popularity. I drink, at one time way too much, and I've never smuggled in FORTY-SEVEN CRUISES, and have run up some hellaicous bar tabs. So non-smuggling has not curtailed my cruising to any extent. Dan

 

I'm not sure what this argument proves. We aren't talking about the effect of banning smuggling on those who don't smuggle, are we? Obviously, there would be no effect negatively or positively to the cruise lines bottom line from those who don't smuggle. Why would there be?

 

We could debate forever the effect of banning smuggling, but the truth is, until it happens (and I don't believe it will), we won't know.

[rajntra]

Dan40: I love you. I truly do. However, one flaw in your comment is that to bring a drink into a bar is illegal in the States.

 

On a ship, we are not only not in the States, but aren't ships governed by the flag they fly (country of registry)?

 

Also, just because I have 2 drinks a day in my cabin does NOT necessarily mean I would have those same 2 drinks on deck. I would end up skipping them to stay within budget.

 

International Maritime Law is what governs a ship at sea. In other words the Captain says what goes. He is the law.

 

And I'm sorry but if two drinks a day at say $6 X 16 = $96 bust your budget, you might not be able to afford the vacation. Not trying to be an as- just a realist.

[Knights on the Beach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisemom2

Apples to oranges (AGAIN). Just like my comments about the "high end restaurant" you compared a cruise with earlier, one does not spend a whole week at the restaurant or bar! You do not get your own room in a restaurant or bar, at least not the ones we go to. Maybe you sleep at the bar, but we go home to do that. Just like on the ship, we go "home" to our cabin. I don't "sneak" drinks into the bars or restaurants on the ship, but I will enjoy one on my balcony or while we are dressing for dinner, etc.

 

 

 

Anyone can justify anything in their own mind.

No need to justify anything. The drink I am most likely to be enjoying in my cabin or on my balcony will be a glass of champagne, and it is allowed by Carnival. You totally missed (or ignored) my point which was that your comparisons make little sense. You are not comparing apples to apples.

[peterv]

International Maritime Law is what governs a ship at sea. In other words the Captain says what goes. He is the law.

 

And I'm sorry but if two drinks a day at say $6 X 16 = $96 bust your budget, you might not be able to afford the vacation. Not trying to be an as- just a realist.

 

It usually isn't the cost that matters that much but the rationalisation of value for money. The cruise lines price items at the highest point before the increased cost reduces the volume of sales.

 

As a matter of point, I don't smuggle booze onto the ships, because drinking isn't one of the things I do very much of, but more power to those that want to do it. In addition, if I buy a bottle on shore, they have never yet taken it from me, on any cruiseline. when I have reboarded.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[yst347]

International Maritime Law is what governs a ship at sea. In other words the Captain says what goes. He is the law.

 

And I'm sorry but if two drinks a day at say $6 X 16 = $96 bust your budget, you might not be able to afford the vacation. Not trying to be an as- just a realist.

 

Since the subterfuge involved in booze smuggling is as veiled as a brown bag around a pint bottle, any rational person would conclude the Captain is condoning the behavior.

 

And you don't need to try, you are quite apt.

[rajntra]

Since the subterfuge ....

 

And you don't need to try, you are quite apt.

 

I'm an apartment? I don't get it. All these big words you use yst347 make me dizzy. You must have gone to Yale.:rolleyes:

[yst347]

I'm an apartment? I don't get it. All these big words you use yst347 make me dizzy. You must have gone to Yale.:rolleyes:

 

You surprise me raj....seeing stars with just a three letter word. Atleast mine wasn't censored by Big C. ;)

[rajntra]

Touche. That's my biggest.:o

[peterv]

Peter, do you have a link where I could get more of this kind of information, or do I have to be a stockholder and get the report?

 

For Carnival Corporation, not Carnival Cruise Lines, go to http://www.carnivalcorp.com they have all the financial information there. Quite revealing for some of it.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[snownyet]

I may have missed it as I scrolled thru all the math homework but why not just buy a bottle from ship services and have it delivered to the room? Now Ive never cruised Carnival (sailing on the Glory in sept) but we've done Princess and HAL a number of times and have always bought a bottle of our favorite liquor and had it delivered to our cabin and its never cost more than $28.. Since Im from NY and pay $22 for it at home its not worth the hassle.

[Burghboy76]

I took my first cruise this past year. Before boarding we stopped in the duty free where we purchased a couple bottles of wine which was allowed. While there we saw something that said if we purchased a certain amount we could reach into this big champagne glass to see how many mini bottles we could pull out. While trying to reach the dollar amount we ended up with our 2 initial bottles of wine, and 5 bottles of rum (that stuff is cheap in puerto rico). I also ended up pulling 21 of the mini bottles from the glass. They boxed everything up for us and we walked onboard, no one said a thing to us. I think we drank some of the minis, the wine and a bottle of rum we left 2 of the bottles as a thank you to the steward. At the end of the cruise I still spent almost 400 dollars on booze.

 

I really don't think I would have drank anymore if I hadn't brought on our own liquor I just wouldn't have had late night cocktails and I wouldn't have drank while getting ready for dinner. Not to mention the steward wouldn't have gotten two bottles of rum. I wouldn't call carrying to big boxes of liquor smuggling but I did bring it none the less. This year I plan on doing the same thing and if they confiscate it they do and if they don't I guess my steward will get a nice little thank you.

[boydsbear]

I am curious about what you mean about smuggling alcohol on board. The 2 cruises that we were on we brought alcohol at various ports and John Hearld encouraged people to buy specialy wines in ports. We carried them in our bags and once some of the bottles felled on the belt when the bag went through. Nothing was said to us. Please enlightened me concerning the rules about bringing alcohol aboard. Thanks.

[boaterette]

You are allowed to bring fine wine on board. You are not allowed to bring hard alcohol. I also dont believe that you can find fine wine in a box. Totally cheap wine yes but not good wine.

[boaterette]

You are allowed to bring fine wine on board. You are not allowed to bring hard alcohol. I also dont believe that you can find fine wine in a box. Totally cheap wine yes but not good wine.

[eLav8]

And I'm sorry but if two drinks a day at say $6 X 16 = $96 bust your budget, you might not be able to afford the vacation. Not trying to be an as- just a realist.

 

I am definitely not saying that hurts my budget. 2 drinks is fairly light in my opinion though. I would say, on a daily basis (when smuggling), between 2 people, we each go through 5 shots of smuggled tequila, 4 or 5 cocktails or drink of day, and about 5 beers, EACH! If I didn't have that tequila, I wouldn't spend anymore on drinks on board, I would probably spend the same, or maybe even less. It is just nice to have that little extra to get you going before heading out to wander the ship. As said many times before, it more likely causes me to spend more money on drinks to keep the buzz going...

 

I have never heard of ordering from bon voyage of anything decent for $28 as one poster stated. Usually I hear quotes of $40-55 for midgrade liquors. Why would I want to spend approx. $50 for a bottle of Jose Cuervo when I can buy a bottle of Patron and smuggle it for the same price?

 

I will buy a bottle the last night on board from the Duty free shop for VERY REASONABLE prices ($14 for a liter of Dewars??? WOW!), but don't hate me for wanting to get my moneys worth out of drinks when I have already dropped over $1000 for a cruise!