How safe is Jamaica?

[new2cruzing]

We have heard that Jamaica isn't safe to do anything alone, that we should only go somewhere with a group, is that true?

Also, I read posts about doing Dunns River Falls alone- is that safe, or would be better going in a group?

 

We also want to do the canopy tour, will we have time to do both? Are they close by each other?

 

Thanks

[twinkletoes4445]

This is just my opinion...

 

I wouldn't wander around on my own, except to Island Village/Margaritaville (if your ship is docked right next to it-I've read that sometimes they use an alternate docking area, and in that case, I'd take a cab).

 

If you use a cab, make sure and use one that is JUTA. I think they have a sticker in their window, but I am not sure of this.

 

Here's something I found that explains this a bit...

 

You'll find many types of rides, but the all official taxis in Jamaica are members of the Jamaican Union of Travellers Association, or JUTA. These are officially licensed cabs and drivers, and their license plates will be red and display “PP” or “PPV,” which stand for Public Passenger Vehicle. Rogue or “pirate” taxi services are also available, but visitors are discouraged from using these.

 

You could either take a cab to Dunn's, or use a tour guide. We used Ionie and Lewis McBeam for our tour of the area. Lewis dropped us at the falls, and then came back for us an hour and half later, I believe. Our kids went with the "guide" that took the group up the falls (and we tipped them $5 each, I think-there were two). You don't have to do this. We saw a lot of people who just went up the falls on their own. It's up to you. But you can wander around the falls area by yourself.

 

When we left the falls, we went back out the entrance, even though everyone was telling us we were going the wrong way. We didn't want to go out through all the vendor stalls, so we did this. They will try and get you to go through the stalls with the hope you buy something. Just make sure whoever you use for transportation is going to be waiting for you in the parking lot.

 

I don't know anything about the canopy tour. We just did the falls, a tour of the area, and shopping. We ended up having lunch at Margaritaville, and spent the rest of the afternoon there.

[dwaineandjen]

I have to say that Jamiaca is not my favorite place although we have only been to Montego Bay. While in Montego Bay, we took a shuttle/taxi from the port to the town. Once arriving at the town center, we realized that it was someplace we didn't feel safe at. We spoke with the driver and for a flat fee (I think it was $30 for both myself and wife), he took us round trip to the Rose Hall Great House. Normally the excusion cost $45 a piece but we ended up paying $45 total (taxi and admission to the great house) and it got you away from the probems in the city. I was actually pleasantly surpised by the plantation itself.

[teamfour]

We have heard that Jamaica isn't safe to do anything alone, that we should only go somewhere with a group, is that true?

 

Wow! Not much different than New Orleans.

[teamfour]

We have heard that Jamaica isn't safe to do anything alone, that we should only go somewhere with a group, is that true?

 

Wow! Not much different than New Orleans.

[ronkay]

Or New York, Chicago, Detroit, LA, Miami......

 

common sense and be alert

[twinkletoes4445]

Yes, but Jamaica is different than those cities (pretty much the entire island is that way-at least with the US cities mentioned, there are good parts and dangerous parts). Granted, there are rough places in all major cities here, but when getting off a cruise ship in Jamaica, it is a bit different. You should use common sense and be alert, but never would I wander around in Ocho or Montego Bay(on my own).

 

I think it was last year that there was some sort of unrest on the island and cruise ships weren't docking there for a few days (until things were back under control). It can get dicey there...and it's different.

 

Jamaica was named the "Murder Capital of the World" just last year. Even with that being said, I'd still get off the ship. We had a wonderful time there, and we loved seeing the island. Knowing what to expect prior to going is the key to having a safe vacation.

[TOTTT]

If by 'alone' you mean with just you and your partner or family, yes you can do this, you don't have to be part of a large group. Especially if you're a first timer to the island, or even a repeat cruise person who has only been here once or twice for a day each, I wouldn't recommend getting off the ship and just trying to flag down a cab from the road...contact a reputable tour company and make plans in advance..

 

Remember this...no reputable driver (nor company that employs multiple drivers) will go anywhere that they themselves are in danger...or where their own families would be in danger. Therefore, they're not about to take YOU anyplace where you would be in danger. Reputable drivers and reputable companies want people to enjoy themselves...they want people to share the word with others that it is indeed worthwhile to get off the ship and see some of what this very diverse island has to offer.

 

Yes there was some unrest in MoBay last year...NOT in areas directly involving tourists. The unrest involved police shootings of some innocent citizens which led to some rioting in areas on the fringes of MoBay but areas drivers might have had to pass through on their way to points of interest east (heading towards Ochi.) Tour buses were not stopped or harrassed, but they were slowed down if caught in these traffic areas. If the drivers did not explain to the tourists they were carrying what had been going on to cause this, what recourse local citizens have to make their voices heard, I can see where tourists would look out the bus or van windows and be thoroughly confused or worried...what a shame that lack of conversation continued or continues to lead to more misunderstandings.

[twinkletoes4445]

I can see where tourists would look out the bus or van windows and be thoroughly confused or worried...what a shame that lack of conversation continued or continues to lead to more misunderstandings.

 

Check this out...scroll down a bit (I know this is from several years ago).

 

http://www.ntaonline.com/staticfiles/war_update020703.pdf

 

I personally love Jamaica. We had a wonderful time there, and I'd visit again, but to compare Jamaica to Miami or any other US city, IMO, is giving people a false sense of security. Yes, there are dangerous places in the US, and there are places that I'd not visit here.

 

My point is that people say..."Ahh...get off, walk around, it's like any other place, just be careful." Well, it's not, IMO. All you have to do is read these boards (and other travel boards), or sit through the tour info meeting on your ship (where they will do their best to scare the daylights out of you), to know that Jamaica has some security issues.

 

I do agree that no reputable driver would take you to an area that's not safe, but you have to know this to begin with. You do have to take precautions when visiting Jamaica...but you can have a great time.

 

And there were a couple of days last year that the ships didn't visit the island (anywhere) because of unrest on the island. Can you imagine a cruise ship not docking in Miami because of a problem like this? I can't.

 

I've had many friends who have gone to the all-inclusives, and they've all said the same thing...they stayed within the fenced or walled/off area of the resort or they went on an organized excurion (if they wanted to go outside).

 

I'm not misunderstanding anything. There are a lot of issues in Jamaica, and they have a lot of unrest. I want to have a safe vacation, and I want to enjoy my time that I will be there...but to do that, you do have to do a little research ahead of time.

 

Know before you go...is a good motto to have when traveling to a foreign country. Then you can make the most of wherever you might visit.

[TOTTT]

Twinkletoes, you hit the nail on the head when you said that to enjoy your time on the island (ESPECIALLY if here for only a day's stop) "you have to do your research ahead of time."

 

That's why forums and message boards like this one for cruise ship people, or Trip Advisor.com (for people both on cruise ships or doing land stays) or Negril.com or Treasurebeach.net for people doing land stays in those towns, or Jamaicans.com for tourism and Jamaican info in general, all serve to make the world a smaller place...to allow people to give first hand information to newbies to the island, or give more inside information to people returning for the second, tenth or fiftieth visit.

 

People willing to take a little time before a vacation to read up and ask questions or people who have already returned from a vacation but still visit these various message boards to continue to share first hand opinions or tips with others are all on the right track. People who use message boards are already three steps ahead of the game so to speak.

 

I'm glad to hear you loved Jamaica and had a wonderful time and that if you come back again, you'd still get off the ship. I'm sure you did some research ahead of time and knew where it was you wanted to go, what you wanted to see and experience when you made your visit. I'm sure you read plenty of advice both pro and con and made your own decisions after filtering through both sides and that's why everything turned out well.

People using message boards have that same advantage, and that's what all people who love a particular place, no matter where it is in the world, hope all visitors do.

 

I'm not sure I've ever read a post on this board from people advising visitors to just get off the ship and wander around on their own...perhaps I misunderstood New2cruzing and thought the question was "Do I have to take an excursion with a group as opposed to just my partner/family and I"...and that is what I intended to convey in my response. Some people love large groups when traveling, others prefer to travel with just those they left home with...some people are content to take packaged tour without any deviation (maybe because they don't know what all else is in an area to explore?). Other people prefer to customize trips to take in places that fit their interests, hobbies, similar occupations at home, etc. and these areas of exploration may turn out to be a combination of "tourist" and "local" places. Some people want to experience a place with activities and spots that residents of that country live daily (no matter how mundane) just to experience another culture, a different way of life...and to have no interaction with residents of their own home countries just for a few hours of a total vacation to more fully understand the differences and similarities between themselves and residents of a country.

 

The key perhaps is when we all encounter people who are considering a trip to Jamaica (or any foreign country for that matter) is to encourage them to put out a little effort...by taking some time to read message boards, taking some time to ask questions, tossing ideas back and forth with the friends or family they'll be traveling with, doing a bit of planning and then...come (to Jamaica) and have the time of their lives as many members of this board have done and will continue to do.

[Host Caroline]

For me it's not that Jamaica isn't necessarily "safe" it's just that there is so much pestering of tourists.. unrelenting really and IMHO worse than on any of the other islands we've beeen to.. it's just not worth it. We've done some ship tours over the years where it wasn't too bad on tour but the minute you are off on your own it starts.. We do Dunn's River with a cab and then run the gauntlet and head for Island Village.. I'd be more inclined to browse around other places IF people would just leave me alone ... .or hold it to a minimum.

[twinkletoes4445]

Twinkletoes, you hit the nail on the head when you said that to enjoy your time on the island (ESPECIALLY if here for only a day's stop) "you have to do your research ahead of time."

 

I'm glad to hear you loved Jamaica and had a wonderful time and that if you come back again, you'd still get off the ship. I'm sure you did some research ahead of time and knew where it was you wanted to go, what you wanted to see and experience when you made your visit. I'm sure you read plenty of advice both pro and con and made your own decisions after filtering through both sides and that's why everything turned out well.

 

I'm not sure I've ever read a post on this board from people advising visitors to just get off the ship and wander around on their own...perhaps I misunderstood New2cruzing and thought the question was "Do I have to take an excursion with a group as opposed to just my partner/family and I"...and that is what I intended to convey in my response.

 

We really did enjoy or time there, and do look forward to coming back again one day. I did a lot of research prior to our visit there, and I ended up booking a private tour company. We never at any point felt threatened. Not once.

 

I think people who've never been to Jamaica (or any foreign place for that matter), should try and find out as much info ahead of time as possible, then they can make their own decision. What may scare me, or not interest me, may be something that someone else doesn't have a problem with...or wants to do.

 

I have read on these boards where people say it's just fine and dandy to roam around on your own (in Jamaica). I just personally disagree with this. But I wasn't talking about the OP. She was just asking questions, which is good. Information is king when traveling. And again, this is my opinion, and someone may feel just fine about roaming around on there own...we just don't.

 

I think when we were there we were touched at just how nice the people were. I do agree with Host Caroline, that the people who want you to purchase something, sometimes is just too much to deal with. But when we were on our tour, Lewis kept everyone at arms length, so we didn't really have any problems.

 

I know that Jamaica does have problems, and so do other places (including places here in the US). I don't want people to think for one minute that I'd say to stay on the ship...I would not do that. I'd get off and meet a guide and get out and see the island. It's really very tropical and lush.

 

When we were leaving...I was scooping up a handful of sand to take home with me. A Jamaican gentleman asked if we could take him with us (like the sand). He was very nice, and really quite funny.

[twinkletoes4445]

For me it's not that Jamaica isn't necessarily "safe" it's just that there is so much pestering of tourists.. unrelenting really and IMHO worse than on any of the other islands we've beeen to.. it's just not worth it. We've done some ship tours over the years where it wasn't too bad on tour but the minute you are off on your own it starts.. We do Dunn's River with a cab and then run the gauntlet and head for Island Village.. I'd be more inclined to browse around other places IF people would just leave me alone ... .or hold it to a minimum.

 

I'm with you on that. We ended up going out the "entrance" when we left the falls, but we really didn't want to have to deal with all the vendors. They can be quite aggressive, and we had four kids with us, and just didn't want to deal with it.

 

And like you, I'd probably would shop more if I wasn't being bombarded with people wanting me to purchase things.

[ronkay]

by that I meant do not travel alone, use offical tour companies, etc. the last 2 years I spent at least a week each in Jamaica but always in Negril. tkae the normal precautions to protect your family like you would every other day of your life.

[twinkletoes4445]

by that I meant do not travel alone, use offical tour companies, etc. the last 2 years I spent at least a week each in Jamaica but always in Negril. tkae the normal precautions to protect your family like you would every other day of your life.

 

And that's good advice. :)

[TOTTT]

Caroline, Twinkletoes (and others)...I do understand your comments re: vendors asking you to stop and look at what they have, or asking as you walk about if you need this, that or the other. I'm don't know about the culture of the islands on the rest of the cruise ship docking itinerary, but as expanation of Jamaica, especially in the cities, what you are experiencing is really no different than what Jamaicans themselves experience. (consider it a compliment?)

 

When my hsuband (a Jamaican) and I go to the capital city of our parish (think of it as similar to a state in the US, or a province in Canada) to shop for clothes, household items, groceries, etc....as one walks the sidewalks there are always 'roaming vendors' to encounter...those who do not have shops or stalls of their own, but rather carry their wares in a basket or box or whatever.) These items can be anything from q-tips, shoe polish and washclothes to heads of garlic and bunches of scallions to belts and flip-flops to phone cards etc. We're asked if we need anything that they have...if we do, we buy it...if we don't we just say "No thanks" and we continue on our way as do they.

 

If we go to the open air market to get fruits and vegetables and he's picking out carrots from one table, the vendor next to the one where we are is calling out "Ras (nickname because of the way he wears his hair), come see mi cabbage dem" (come and look at my cabbage) and should we then stop at that table, another vendor may call out "Ras, why yuh nuh wan buy mi mango?" (why don't you want to buy my mangos?) and the next one is offering a slice of watermelon to try hoping that we'll find it good and though not on our 'shopping list' we impulse buy and take home a whole or even half a melon..and the orange vendor peels an orange for us to eat on the spot hoping that a bag of his oranges goes home with us. Sometimes we purchase these items, sometimes we don't...it all depends on whether we have the money or not, or find the item something we need or don't.

 

Jamaicans call out to Jamaicans to 'advertise' what they have...you are just encountering the way it's done here. However, if one doesn't know the culture, I can see why you think you're being targeted as a "tourist."

 

One day while in the Ocho Rios craft market at the end of the Dunn's River Falls excursion, I sat with the vendors to chat. I watched tourists pass through...some looking at stalls, some rushing past as if something was going to bite them should they slow down. Some of the vendors would call out "Come, stop, look at my things"...90% of the visitors wouldn't say a word, wouldn't give acknowledgement....5% would growl out a "NO!!!...5% would browse briefly (some buying, some not).

 

The vendors asked me (being 'foreign born') - why the tourists were rushing, why they were rude not to even look up, or why they were so angry with their reponses. I explained as best I could that if they were rushing it most likely was for one of two reasons...they had an itinerary to stick to, a time limit for their stops and had to rush to the tour bus to get to their next stop. Or they were rushing because they heard scare stories about aggressive vendors. Or they were told not to make eye-contact because (heaven forbid) someone would ask them to buy something. Or they snarled a "NO!!" because they were having a bad day, or for any of the already mentioned reasons.

 

All expressed the same sentiment...(and again this is cultural)...it's rude not to greet people, one can say no without being angry or afraid. It is considered "old world" manners here to look someone in the eye and greet each other in passing (Good morning, good day, good afternoon, good evening, good night). Looking someone in the eye and saying "No thank you, we already purchased something like that earlier"...or "You're things look lovely but we don't need anything, thank you.".....or "No thanks but I wish you better luck with another prospective buyer and hope you have a good day." Anything at all to show manners...to acknowledge the vendor as a human being with feelings.

 

I bless the fact every day that being a vendor in a craft market, or on the sidewalk is NOT how I have to make my living. I have yet, after nine years of living in the country, been able to come up with an opening line that would make someone want to stop and see my wares (and most likely nothing different than they haven't already looked at or passed by.)

 

"Beggars" are a whole different issue of course, with a different way of response (yet still not dehumanizing.)

 

I wish there was more info given out on planes and cruise ships to explain more of the culture of the island, or cultural practices of the people...maybe it would give more understanding before landing or docking so that at least one would understand why certain things are encountered.

 

For those not wanting to encounter any interaction on the streets or beaches, the all-inclusive hotel/resort day passes will allow you some time to visit the island and have no interaction with Jamaicans unless they are in staff uniform and there to help with food or drinks, or the vendors that have been 'approved' by the hotel or resort to set up a craft area...and again, you shop or you don't, it's up to you...

 

For those who want to experience a Jamaican city or town (Ochi or MoBay or Negril) and want to take in beach time or a craft market, or an open air market...let your guide know you want them to be there with you to give you tips or advice or advise you on prices...there should be no extra charge for this, it's part of your day's outing. If you're on a big tour bus, and your group is large, and it's the type tour where the bus driver just drops you off and picks you up, you may not have this option, I'm not sure...but it doesn't hurt to ask the driver if they are allowed to accompany you.

 

It's your vacation, you should enjoy it, you shouldn't be afraid to ask questions (a hundred of them if need be!!) so that you can feel comfortable both before and during your stop. It all falls in line with what Twinkletoes said about taking the time to find out as much information as possible 'ahead of time'.

 

And Twinkletoes, I LOVED this comment of yours...very, very correct:

 

What may scare me, or not interest me, may be something that someone else doesn't have a problem with...or wants to do.

 

Everyone is different, everyone has different tastes and desires of what to experience...and every experience is possible here. Everyone here on this message board, is on the right track...you have a chance to ask questions, to read first hand information from others, to plot and plan your day so that it is right in line with what you desire...and maybe, just maybe, when encountering others with questions about Jamaica, or worries about the island or the Jamaican people themselves, you can pass on some tips, or refer them to message boards like this one...or they're lucky enough to deal with a travel agent who has themselves an understanding about the cultural ways of any location where their people will be stopping, and have spent time themselves actually interacting within a particular country and takes time to help plan those port stops to fit an individuals needs.

 

I hope none of you reading this feels like I'm "lecturing" :(...I'm just trying to give some info from "the other side of the fence so to speak. :)

[southbayer]

Where exactly is this gauntlet of vendors located, right after you get off the ship ? Can they be avoided ? Are there other shopping areas around that one can shop at comfortably ??

[TOTTT]

Southbayer, the "gauntlet" of vendors that people refer to at Dunn's River Falls is to your right as you wind your way out of the park. I've read that others go out the "entrance" gate (but not without the guards there protesting somewhat) and have read posts by others where there guide takes them out some different path that avoids the craft market.

 

A craft market is a craft market...so to avoid one you'll need to avoid them all. Perhaps you'll be more comfortable at the established stores in the different tourist shopping plazas...prices are set and hopefully marked or posted on the items or on a sign above them...I'm not familiar with too many of these particular stores in Ochi on an individual basis, but if they're like the ones here in Negril, you might be able to bargain minimally on the total purchase price, especially if you buy items in bulk.

[Host Caroline]

Where exactly is this gauntlet of vendors located, right after you get off the ship ? Can they be avoided ? Are there other shopping areas around that one can shop at comfortably ??

 

IMHO there are no craft areas where you can shop without being hassled to death except the "Island Village" right at the dock near Margaritaville although if you want Jamaican rum, coffee, "souvenirs craft items" etc. it's a great little area with more than enough shops. That being said I wouldn't be buying jewelry or other expensive things in Jamaica so no reason to go anywhere else. I've been to Jamaica probably 7-8 times at least since the mid-90s and have just given up on doing anything outside the Island Village in terms of shopping... We've done so many of the tours that we just occ. go back and do the Falls because it's fun and not too much hassle.

 

BTW the "video" or CD is pretty much a rip off if you do that.. you will get hassled to death about it AND the first 15 mins or so are a travelogue.. not your climb.

[islandsinmyblood]

wow... very well explained, your neighbors should praise you for taking the time to speak the truth of your beautiful island and its cultures. i do as you explained, i look in thy eye of whom ever speaks to me and kindly say no thank you and give a little smile & say good day. everyone not only islanders responded much better if you firdt offer a good morning-afternoon, befor you say how much is that... or how do i get to?????.

[bunduo]

The vendors asked me (being 'foreign born') - why the tourists were rushing, why they were rude not to even look up, or why they were so angry with their reponses. I explained as best I could that if they were rushing it most likely was for one of two reasons...they had an itinerary to stick to, a time limit for their stops and had to rush to the tour bus to get to their next stop. Or they were rushing because they heard scare stories about aggressive vendors. Or they were told not to make eye-contact because (heaven forbid) someone would ask them to buy something. Or they snarled a "NO!!" because they were having a bad day, or for any of the already mentioned reasons.

 

All expressed the same sentiment...(and again this is cultural)...it's rude not to greet people, one can say no without being angry or afraid. It is considered "old world" manners here to look someone in the eye and greet each other in passing (Good morning, good day, good afternoon, good evening, good night). Looking someone in the eye and saying "No thank you, we already purchased something like that earlier"...or "You're things look lovely but we don't need anything, thank you.".....or "No thanks but I wish you better luck with another prospective buyer and hope you have a good day." Anything at all to show manners...to acknowledge the vendor as a human being with feelings.

 

 

TOTTT - Beautifully written. I had to laugh at the posts immediately after yours. It was obvious they didn't read yours. People have the same feelings and emotions regardless of where they live, how much money they have, or the color of their skin. I chat with homeless people all the time. I don't do it because I want to feel morally superior. I do it because I always hated how I felt when I ignored them. The Jamaicans, or anybody, mirror the look we have on our face. If you smile, all of a sudden, the world seems like a much friendlier place. :)

[newt98]

thanks for your time invested in trying to help us understand the culture a bit more, this is one of the reasons i can't wait to cruise, to see what it is that makes the world go round, outside of my own private idaho.

 

Mike

[mill231]

Tottt

Thank you for explaining some of the culture to us. When we visited Dunns River Falls our tour guide had warned us that they might try to put things in your hands and then say that you had agreed to buy it, etc. so not to touch anything unless we were going to purchase it. He warned us that it would be "aggressive". As we started going through the booths I probably looked frightened, because I was. When this one guy started yelling come here, I jumped and started walking faster. He then started yelling at me about me thinking that I was better than him. I was about in tears I was so scared. There was a security guy there that yelled at him. When we got a few booths down a lady said sorry about him. You can buy from me with no hassles, so we bought several t-shirts and then left. After reading what you wrote I understand a little more why the guy felt like he did. I certainly wasn't trying to upset him. However, I think that if someone could help them understand that the tourist are warned to be careful in these foreign lands, with different cultures than our ownit would help. I realize how desperate some of them are for money to feed their families, but they would sell twice as much if they would take the ladies approach, instead of the young man's approach.

 

Many of the people on these boards are saying that they are going to stay on the ship in Jamaica, which is sad. We are coming back in May with our children and I think that we may stay on the ship this time. After my last experience and the things that I'm reading about young boys being searched (my son is 14) we are really considering staying on the ship. We really enjoyed our day at the falls (except the market area), and tubing last time, but with our kids along this time I just don't want to jeopardize their safety. It's really too bad that the gov't can't control the vendors better at the falls, because people enjoy them and with less hassle tourist would spend twice the money there. I know that we would have.

I wish the people of Jamaica the best. If we do get off the ship I will remember what you said and try to look less scared. I will be sure to look them in the eye when I say "no thank you." Thanks again for helping us understand.:o

[Host Caroline]

Many of the people on these boards are saying that they are going to stay on the ship in Jamaica, which is sad. We are coming back in May with our children and I think that we may stay on the ship this time. After my last experience and the things that I'm reading about young boys being searched (my son is 14) we are really considering staying on the ship. We really enjoyed our day at the falls (except the market area), and tubing last time, but with our kids along this time I just don't want to jeopardize their safety. It's really too bad that the gov't can't control the vendors better at the falls, because people enjoy them and with less hassle tourist would spend twice the money there. I know that we would have.

I wish the people of Jamaica the best. If we do get off the ship I will remember what you said and try to look less scared. I will be sure to look them in the eye when I say "no thank you." Thanks again for helping us understand.:o

 

I 100% agree with you about the government controlling these vendors.. do they have a clue how much money they'd make if they would just take a polite "no" when given? And how many more people would stop and shop if there were not the hassle.

I hate to think you will stay on the ship.. are you in Ocho Rios? The Island Market is great and tehre's a beach at Margaritaville.. also if you do the day pass at the hotel (can't recall name, not Sandals) you may not encounter that.

 

We were just in Bahamas and maybe it was my imagination but at the Straw Market and coming off the ship the vendors, cab drivers seemed much less pushy than on at least 10 prior stops there, most recently in April '06... maybe they finally got the "message" :confused: or maybe it was just my lucky day.:rolleyes:

[caribbean dreams]

I actually like Jamaica, i have been there 4 times and would go back again, yes it is true, there are people pestering you, most everywhere you go and yes, i have witnessed 2 stabbings right in front of me, but honestly, it could happen anywhere.

It was 2 women arguing over a man:ek