Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Conte Di Savoia]

Conte, while you are gathering your notes and pix for your next chapter, I wanted to know what you heard onboard ship about The End for this particular ship. You have read what was swirling around when I was onboard a month ago - what did you hear?

 

I hope your jet lag has evaporated by now and you are enjoying autumn in New York.

 

Ruby

 

What I had heard was that there were Central Americans who had some interest in acquiring her. The Chinese had also some idea of possibly using her for river cruises in their country and it was even mentioned that some person or persons might want to invest money to bring her up to 2010 Solas standards. I know Doug expressed skepticism that this would happen. I would consider the source very reliable, however, it isn't over until its over, so who knows what will actually happen? I heard nothing about the replacement.

 

Autumn is one my favorite times of year in this part of the country and we've had some spectacular days. That's the reason I took off this weekend but now the next installment is ready. I'm beginning to feel like Charles Dickens!

 

Before proceeding with more observations and thoughts about Saga Rose, I’d like to make a brief diversion. A number of ports we visited on this trip have historical links to ocean liners of the past, and I thought that the truly ship daft might be interested in visiting these with me here on our nostalgia cruise.

 

Our first port of call was Newcastle-upon-Tyne: the home of Swan Hunter, the yard which produced many famous ships including the original Mauretania (1907), and of course, Saga Ruby ex Vistafjord. Sadly the yard is now closed, its cranes about to be disassembled and shipped off to India. We drove past on our way to Hadrian’s Wall.

 

The next stop was Leith, the port for Edinburgh and the entrance to the Firth of Forth. Earlier in the thread Graham had asked if my recently acquired book on Mauretania contained a particular picture he liked. It did not. I think that one of the most beautiful and poignant pictures of an ocean liner is this famous one of Mauretania as it passed under the Rosyth bridge on its way to the breakers in the Firth. It was originally in the Tourist Class Smoking room of Queen Mary. While we were docked in Leith I glanced over at the horizon and spotted that famous bridge now overshadowed by a new one. Its identity was unmistakable and as I stared at it in the distance I could picture Mauretania passing beneath.

 

Belfast is home to the great Harland and Wolff, builders of Olympic and Titanic as well as other great White Star liners. We were docked across from what is left of this historic site and made a pilgrimage to this sacred place, the holy of holies. Although most of the buildings are gone, there is still activity at the yard. Sadly, a place which was devoted to constructing great ships is now primarily involved in their destruction. While we were there they were dismantling the forward portion of MSC Napoli which went aground off the coast of England earlier this year. The Harland and Wolff yards are currently being redeveloped as the new Titanic District of Belfast, a mixed use residential and commercial zone. For many years, Belfast would rather not remember Titanic, but since the movie and the wave of Titanic mania, they have revised their thinking: “She was fine when she left here.”

 

On our way into the district we passed Nomadic, the last White Star vessel in existence. Found in France in a state of advanced decay, it has been returned to Belfast for restoration. It was used to tender passengers to White Star liners which were at anchor. Still intact is the Thompson Graving Dock which was built to accommodate RMS Olympic and Titanic. This area with its associated pump house is being preserved as are the famous cranes of the yard. Here is a picture of RMS Olympic being fitted out in this dry dock and here is Saga Rose docked across the harbor, the dry dock in the foreground.

 

When we docked in Ringaskiddy, Captain Neil decided that he would run a tender service to Cobh, formerly Queenstown. We jumped at the opportunity to visit the town from which the majority of Irish emigrated to North America.

Countless liners stopped to pick up steerage (and other) passengers in this port. There is a wonderful Heritage Centre which describes the history of Irish emigration. We’ve visited Ellis Island which presents the arrival experience and now we had the opportunity to hear the Irish view of the Gaelic diaspora. This is Cobh harbor where ships dropped anchor to board the passengers. This was the last port of call for Titanic and there are famous pictures of her here before she disappeared into the Atlantic. Cobh has a small monument to Titanic and this one to the victims of the sinking of Lusitania. Lusitania is the last link in this trail today. Some of the victims were laid to rest in the churchyard of Cobh. We took the tour to the quaint town of Kinsale in hopes getting a glimpse of the Old Head of Kinsale , the rocky promontory which is about twelve miles north of where the Lusitania was torpedoed and sunk. Back in Cobh, it’s possible to contemplate all this over a pint at the local pub .

[dougnewmanatsea]

I know Doug expressed skepticism that this would happen. I would consider the source very reliable, however, it isn't over until its over, so who knows what will actually happen?

You hit the nail on the head there... None of us knows what will happen. All we can do is wait and see.

 

Your Chinese river cruise rumor is interesting since, were she to become a river cruise ship in China, she would in fact be used on domestic trading and thus not need to comply with SOLAS. It would be interesting to know if this is geographically possible - that is, if Chinese rivers (the Yangtze?) are so big that they could actually accommodate a big ocean-going ship like this.

 

The "Central America" rumor is too sketchy for me to have anything to say about it.

 

As for bringing her up to SOLAS... All it would take is money! If anyone is willing and able to spend it then it is certainly an option.

 

You are indeed correct in that I'm skeptical about all this - I still think the overwhelming odds are that the old girl will wind up at the breakers', as awful as that is to contemplate. But the fact is that that's what happens to all but a tiny, tiny minority of old ships.

[bcscot]

According to Delia Smith, doyenne of British cooking, plaice is a flat, white, flounder like fish, found in Britain year round & similar to sole but less flavourful. It can be grilled like Dover sole (but consider a sauce to add flavour), deep-fried in a light crisp batter, or the fillets can be used in any sole recipe.

 

Queens (or queenies) are a type of small scallop & according to Delia, some of the best scallops in the world come from the waters around the Isle of Man.

 

If you are a fan of the British kitchen, Conte, then I suggest that you consider buying a copy of 'Delia Smith's Complete Cookery Course'. One simply needs no other.

 

Maybe deep fat frying is not a British thing where you come from Karen, (there is that farm in Africa link again!) but it certainly is in Scotland where the motto should be: if it moves, deep fry it! Glasgow is even famous for it's deep fried Mars bars !!! (Don't even ask. I have not tasted one, I have not even seen one & I do not want to!) Do they sell Mars bars in the USA? It is a chocolate covered toffee 'candy bar'. To deep fry one is a feat greater than baking an Alaska!

 

Correct Doug : no Dutch night on my seven day Ryndam cruise (& no silly hats either!) but they did have an abridged version with Dutch & Indonesian food. Sometimes they have the pickled herring but I am not sure on this occasion. It may have been on in the Lido.

 

The Scots used to be great fish eaters but ceased to be so when they could afford meat. When I grew up on that farm (not in Africa), we often had herring coated in oatmeal & fried (next best thing to deep fried!), sprinkled with vinegar & eaten with boiled potatoes; a very traditional dish. We also ate a lot of haddock, the preferred fish for deep frying in Scotland & the north of England. Farther south they prefer cod, which we regard as an inferior & less tastey fish!

 

When we lived in New Zealand, one of the favourite & most common fishes was the Orange Roughy (no L). It was quite nice, but not a favourite of mine. They also used shark a lot for fish & chips (those are French fries Conte, not crisps, you know, like in Texas!). In BC, Canada, we get deep fried Halibut & chips (unheard of in Scotland due to the cost).

 

On the Ryndam, the lobster was nice (usually rubbery on HAL but sometimes nice) & there was always salmon on the menu which also was good. Other fish included sole, halibut, prawns, crab & more.

 

On the subject of fish, that really is it, from me.

 

Graham.

[bcscot]

Welcome back from your travels to the British Isles. Your travelogue is wonderful & it is especially interesting with the accompanying photos. That is a very poignant picture of the Mauretania & the Forth Bridge. I wish I knew how to scan & show you my picture of that great ship. I am booked to go to these historical old ports on QE2 next year for her final visit, so I am especially interested in your experiences.

 

Yes, that Roman chap, Hadrian, did not like our hospitality so he built that big wall to discourage us from visiting. That was OK though because we did not like his company much either. At one point the Romans sent their ninth legion up to pay a call on us. We did not care for them much, they were never seen again. We sorted the Romans out right enough, but those VIKINGS:eek: were harder to deal with!

 

I too think that the chandeliers on Saga Rose are a travesty. What a shame. However, I would be happy to put up with them if the ship was allowed to stay.

 

That was a very interesting bit of information on the Tower of Refuge & the RNLI, Karen. Thank you. My FIL is a subscribing member of the RNLI & has been shown around the lifeboat station in Douglas, so I was able to impress him with my new found knowledge on the subject!

 

Is your hungry pig one of your crew Karen? I have seen many cruise ship passengers just like him.

 

Ruby: You mentioned the absence of Donald & myself but forgot to mention Michael floating down the Danube. Does anyone know when he returns? I hope that you are enjoying your family visit Ruby.

 

I saw the Volendam, Noordam, Statendam & Amsterdam last week, but not the Zaandam. At one point I thought that I saw a light in the north. I thought it was the Aurora Borialis but now I realise that it was Donald's shiny shoe reflecting the moonlight on formal night.

 

Graham.

[Conte Di Savoia]

As a person who lives in Middle America, it is a strange concept to me to be able to drive a personal car to a port or even better, taking a cab, getting out, and off you go on a maritime adventure. D'maniac does that so well in Vancouver - 10 mins. from house to ship by cab. I'm green with envy.

 

Ruby

 

I might be making you even a little greener. While I was on board Saga Rose I enquired as to whether I might be allowed onboard Saga Ruby when she comes to New York October 2 and 3. A similar request through the Boston office last spring led to nothing, but this time I was more successful. Within a couple of hours Natasha at the Pursers Office confirmed that the company would permit the visit and so, with letter in hand I will be off to Manhattan next week to visit your namesake.

[Saga Ruby]

I saw the Volendam, Noordam, Statendam & Amsterdam last week, but not the Zaandam. At one point I thought that I saw a light in the north. I thought it was the Aurora Borialis but now I realise that it was Donald's shiny shoe reflecting the moonlight on formal night. Graham.

 

Queries, not queenies, altho' I'm startin' to get a hankerin' for those tiny scallops.

 

Graham - welcome back. Nothing like the Scots humour to get me laughing. I think D'maniac is due back soon and Michael by this weekend, altho' these are only vague recollections.

 

My daughter (who hogs my computer at the exact moment I want to use it) sailed on the Veendam a couple of years ago to Alaska. I notice, Graham, that you didn't list this particular ship in your note. Is the Veendam still active with HAL?

 

Conte - A favour? When you visit Saga Ruby (sigh) in NYC, would you please tell me what, if any, differences you see in the Britannia Lounge? I was only in there for an hour on one day on Saga Rose and, when I walked in thru the North Cape Bar, the Britannia Lounge seemed like a twin. On Rose, I'm sure you noticed the many Stephen Card paintings all around the area. By the bye, on Saga Ruby it is the South Cape Bar.

 

You'll be surprised at the GDR - not even in the ballpark of that lovely staircase on her sister but with proper decor. The gift shoppe is in a different location, there are bits and pieces that are different. But no matter what Sister you are on, they are simply wonderful ships.

 

I'll be keen to hear what you think.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

I saw the Volendam, Noordam, Statendam & Amsterdam last week, but not the Zaandam. At one point I thought that I saw a light in the north. I thought it was the Aurora Borialis but now I realise that it was Donald's shiny shoe reflecting the moonlight on formal night.

 

Graham.

 

I am back home this morning! The Alaska cruise season is winding down to a close. The Zaandam was the only ship in Skagway and Ketchikan, and we shared Juneau with a large Princess. I liked the absence of crowds from four or five cruise ships. Salmon has come and gone in Skagway and Juneau (never saw them seven weeks ago), but are still plentiful in Ketchikan.

 

Me and my shiny shoe ... you're so funny, Graham! :D I confess to unobtusively glancing into the promenade deck cabin windows during my strolls, but never saw anything remotely scandalous. I saw some people spending late mornings in their beds, others in their bathrobes preening themselves before dinner, and a couple of bored women flipping through television channels.

 

Conte, I'm enjoying reading your narrative!

 

I'll tell a bit about my cruise later, after I've done my three loads of laundry and settled down. Graham, did your ship encounter a storm? We ran slam-smack into one on the second night (Sept. 20) north of Vancouver Island and before Juneau, and it raged from about 10pm until 6am. Sleep was impossible. I got dressed at 1am and staggered around the rolling and pitching ship taking a few photographs of the effects of the raging seas. I saw only one other passenger, a white-faced woman on a couch across from the Front Desk. I think that she wanted to be near any assistance should she get sick.

 

This is in my Top 3 of roughest seas that I've ever experienced, if not the roughest (it's hard to compare far back to my experiences in 1972 on Victoria and 1982 on Song of Norway). I share Ruby's inability to get motion sickness. :)

 

Graham, there also wasn't a Dutch night on the Zaandam either. I wish, though, that they eliminated the Master Chef's Dinner. I didn't care for performing servers (leave that to Carnival) or the chef's hats (I grudgingly wore mine for a minute or two, for photographs taken by my table companions).

 

Donald D'maniac.

[Saga Ruby]

Graham, there also wasn't a Dutch night on the Zaandam either. I wish, though, that they eliminated the Master Chef's Dinner. I didn't care for performing servers (leave that to Carnival) or the chef's hats (I grudgingly wore mine for a minute or two, for photographs taken by my table companions). Donald D'maniac.

 

Welcome back, D'maniac. That's interesting information about your cruise - sorry there was no scandal available through the Promenade Deck windows. Maybe next time.

 

After that laundry is washed and folded, could you please translate the above paragraph? What is a Chef's Dinner, why are pax wearing hats, and what is a "performing server?"

 

Can anyone clarify the following? My daughter tells me that the staff on Veendam was Indonesian. It was all Filipino when I was on the Rotterdam centuries ago. Is it true that HAL is now an "all Indonesian" staff, a mixture, what?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, the Master Chef's Dinner is a new Holland-America phenomenon which I first noticed on the Veendam a year ago in September. The dining room servers perform in three "acts":

 

Act 1 - The Ballet Service, Chef's Amuse Surprise (the servers parade in rows through the dining room and do a "dance" with their trays aloft, with bowls containing mushroom mousse with asparagus)

Act 2 - The Swing Service, Show Salad Spectacular (the servers parade in for the second time, swinging their salad bowls around)

Act 3 - The Final Service, Master Chef Rudi's "Hats Off" Dessert (the servers parade in for the third time holding aloft the dessert - and I can't even remember what it was).

 

Thank goodness that there were no acts involving the starters and entrees! At each seat was a foot-tall chef's hat for the diners to wear. I thought that it was even more demeaning than the hats for the Dutch Nights.

 

On my Rotterdam cruise in 1989, all the crew except for the officers were indeed Filipinos. A few years ago Indonesians were recruited to serve in the dining rooms and buffet, while Filipinos continued to serve in the lounges and public rooms. I am not sure about the cabin stewards, but I think that they are also all Indonesians. What say you, Graham?

 

Donald D'maniac.

[Saga Ruby]

At each seat was a foot-tall chef's hat for the diners to wear. I thought that it was even more demeaning than the hats for the Dutch Nights. Donald D'maniac.

 

All I have to say about the "Master Chef's Dinner" is "oh dear," and leave it at that. If you ever see me wearing a chef's hat at table, do not pass Go, do not collect $100, just take me on to the Funny Farm because I will have lost my mind.

 

It reminds me of the difference in Istanbul between Orient House and the Mevlani Palace. You can see a tourist show in Istanbul at Orient House with performers and whirling dervishes who put on their "acts." Or you can buy tickets for every second Sunday at the Palace mosque of the Mevlani Brotherhood (known as Whirling Dervishes) and watch the actual religious service while hearing the most magnificent a capella male tenor singing out the Muslim hymns.

 

Is Dutch Night like Italian or Spanish or French Night on all the ships where the tables and staff are dressed for the Night? And that is v-e-r-y interesting about the crews of Filipinos and Indonesians. Thanks.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Is Dutch Night like Italian or Spanish or French Night on all the ships where the tables and staff are dressed for the Night?

Ruby

 

Yes, something like that. On Dutch Nights, male diners were provided with black Dutchman's caps and the females with three-peaked white handkerchief caps. Celebrity has the Italian, French and other cuisine Nights where the servers wore versions of the national outfits - perhaps a scarf around the neck or a beret. Passengers on Celebrity, though, were not provided with hats to wear at the dining room tables (thankfully!).

 

It's interesting about the difference in the dervish acts between Orient House and the Mevlani Palace in Constantinople!

 

D'maniac.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Conte - A favour? When you visit Saga Ruby (sigh) in NYC, would you please tell me what, if any, differences you see in the Britannia Lounge? I was only in there for an hour on one day on Saga Rose and, when I walked in thru the North Cape Bar, the Britannia Lounge seemed like a twin. On Rose, I'm sure you noticed the many Stephen Card paintings all around the area.

Ruby

The

Britannia

is my favorite public room on Saga Rose. Formerly the Garden Lounge on Sagafjord, except for the faux vines on the Cunard-intalled columns, it is now defoliated of its original plantings. Does anyone remember when ships had their own gardeners on board? On our cruise it was used for an occasional tea with wonderful scones, one of the highlights of the British kitchen, and classical musical concerts. I was going to visit the Ballroom before discussing Britannia, but that's OK. Let's talk about it now. Originally decorated in shades of 60's orange, it is now presented in muted tones, but the original wood paneling is intact. This is a great space created in the tradition of liners of the past. Normandie and my namesake, Conte di Savoia had wonderful winter gardens which were traditionally placed in this equivalent shipboard location. It has an expansive 180 degree view. The downside, however, is that the ocean is only visible from the starboard and port windows. The shear of the ship, a small outside observation platform and deck machinery of the fo'c's'le obscure the forward view of the sea. Observation lounges are now placed above the bridge to overcome these deficiencies. Of other ships on which I've traveled, only the Belvedere of Hapag Lloyd's Europa (1982) rival the feel of Saga Rose's Britannia Lounge.

IMO, a highlight of cruises on vessels which cater to Europeans are the classical music concerts. American cruisers as a whole ( I cannot speak for our Canadian cousins) do not particularly appreciate this form of entertainment. On Saga Rose we had an excellent group, the Trio Con Brio, who not only performed the expected (Mozart and Beethoven) but also dared to challenge us with less familiar composers. Jonathan, the pianist, had to apologize, however, that the piano was not properly tuned. The lounge was filled with well-behaved and an appreciative audience who knew exactly when to start applauding. It was marvelous!

The Grand Ballroom was the venue for much of the other entertainment. When I last cruised on the ship it was only eleven years old and this space was already in desperate need of refurbishment. The redo by NAL was a miserable failure but now the room is the best that it has ever looked. Not perfect, however. I have a thing about pictures and lampshades which are not level. I had a compulsion to go around the room (when it was passenger-free) to see that all the lampshades were properly positioned. The trim on one of the valences was detached and try as I might, I could not get it back into place. Note to self: pack glue gun for next cruise. OK, color me weird!

 

This was and still is a traditional ballroom. When it was designed the entertainment on board was a band that played music for the passengers to dance to. Sure, there was the occasional singer or comedian. There was always a dancing couple who performed. (Remember dancing lessons? What ever happened to that now that we need those lessons more than ever?) Elaborate show productions were unheard of. Saga Rose has no Las Vegas style show lounge but has tried to adapt this venue to accommodate what is now expected.

This picture taken during a folkloric show by local performers at Ringaskiddy, demonstrates the tiny stage. The forward entrance to the Ballroom is curtained to provide a staging area for the performers and the passengers are asked to exit the Ballroom through the rear. The performances on Saga Rose are no better or worse than most cruise ship entertainment. The performers are talented and enthusiastically perform the production numbers which are produced by an American company which hires mostly British performers. There was the tribute to West End musicals (although the scenery showed the marquees of Broadway theaters) and the always popular Cole Porter. There was also an excellent American magician and a Welsh baritone who dedicated his performance to the recently deceased Pavarotti. Are baritones allowed to dedicate performances to tenors?

 

The third venue for entertainment is the significantly reconfigured Polaris Lounge. Originally the First Class Dining Room of Sagafjord, it has for years been the nightclub.

Well, as you might imagine given the age restriction on Saga, there is very little late night activity on Saga Rose. Keeping the majority of the audience awake for the evening's main entertainment is an accomplishment. Life after 11 PM is entirely another matter. Being at the younger end of the Saga spectrum, we went up there to "check out the action." Several nights the performers gave cabaret style performances which were actually quite enjoyable. But this isn't QM2's G32 which can be a very hot scene indeed!

 

Lastly, I took picturtes of each of the Stephen Card paintings. I need some advice here. Is there any copyright infringement if I publish my own pictures of these paintings which were in a public space? Doug, what do you think?

[bcscot]

Welcome back Donald. I trust that your cruise was an enjoyable one inspite of silly hats & bumpy seas.

 

We thought that the Ryndam was the most tastefully decorated of the eight HAL ships upon which we have sailed so far. Others are either a little drab or use too many primary colours along with a little too much of the baroque & rococo styles. The Vermeer show lounge was quite stunning in an art deco style. This was only spoiled by the uncomfortable seats & the poor sight lines on the balconies of the S-class ships.

 

The food on Ryndam was also good, as was the service. I did not know that HAL used to use only Filipino crew. Now they use Indonesians as waiters & cabin stewards, Filipinos as bar staff, deck stewards & cooks, & mainly Filipinos as sailors, with some Indonesians. On the Ryndam they had Indian cooks also & I was very upset to miss the Indian curry buffet out at the Lido pool on the Glacier Bay day when we were busy glacier watching. I checked & it was not advertised anywhere. We 'LOVE' Indian food & were suitably 'miffed'!

 

HAL provide a very traditional & stylish product which is fantastic value for money. Their 'Dutch night' has been a tradition for a while I think. The food is Dutch & Indonesian & the waiters dress in Dutch costume. Silly hats are provided for the passengers but we have always declined to wear them, having learned to say in Bahasa Indonesia that we do not like silly hats! It is OK though & not too tacky. Last year on the Amsterdam, we were introduced to the new 'Master Chef's dinner' concept, which is too tacky & is Carnivalesque. The show cast actually lead the waiters in their rather childlike rendition. We actually cringe with embarrassment for them until it is over. We had no hats though on Ryndam & I do not remember them on Amsterdam. My comment card also suggested that this sort of thing was best left to Carnival & was not appropriate for HAL. We are a pair of old 'stuffed shirts', but I am afraid that we just do not appreciate that sort of 'fun'. Once again, that is why it is important that the various lines offer a different product, catering to a different clientele. I stand firmly against Carnivalisation. Come on, there is plenty room up here on my soap-box!

 

On Prinsendam, we were spared the Master Chef's dinner & had hoped that it had gone the way of the Dodo. Great was our consternation on Ryndam when we found that it was not only alive & well, but people actually seemed to enjoy it. The dessert that you alluded to Donald, is a white chocolate chef's hat filled with chocolate mousse. It used to be so hard that attempts to cut it often resulted in one piece shooting across the dining room at high velocity, endangering anyone in it's path. The other piece would take an alternative trajectory, bouncing off one's chest, leaving chocolate mousse stains on one's formal evening wear. This dessert predated the chef's dinner & should have come with a written & verbal warning. They have however had time to perfect it & the white chocolate hat is now thin enough to cut easily. I still prefer to do it from behind a perspex safety screen though!

 

On Prinsendam & the world cruises, they dress the waiters in local costume on port days, have local flags on the table & have local dishes on the menu, for each port (that can be a lot in the Med.). I liked the local food & the flags were a nice touch, but I thought the local dress was a bit demeaning for the waiters (our's hated it, especially the hats). At least there was no Master Chef's dinner!

 

The service on Ryndam was excellent, spoiled only by the waiters being so busy since their numbers have been reduced, allowing them less time to chat. Our attempts at their language were appreciated as always. Donald, the waiters wore their 'crumbers' with pride, clipped like pens on their uniforms. We never had to sit through a 'crumby' meal once!

 

Indonesia was a colony of Holland's for centuries & there is still a connection between the countries, like Britain & India. HAL have a training school for their waiters in Jakarta, Java. I do not know how long this has been going on but I know that the Indonesian crew are HAL's greatest asset.

 

To answer your other 'queenie' Ruby, Veendam is one of HAL's four S-class ships, along with Statendam, Ryndam & Maasdam, & is still going strong. This year she has been doing the Baltic cruises rather than Alaska. These ships were launched in the early to mid 1990s & are very nice ships at 55,000 grt. Unlike most ships now (including Prinsendam), you can still stand up at the bow & lean on the rail as you watch the world go by. The wind is often deflected up & over the bow, so it is sheltered there while it is windy on the rest of the ship, making it the best place to be (a phenomenon often experienced on mountain tops). I miss this on other ships.

 

We experienced the storm on that night too, Donald, but were less exposed. The captain warned us that as we came out of one channel into the open Pacific, it would be rough for an hour at 1am before we re-entered the sheltered waters of another channel, making our way from Skagway to Ketchikan. It started to get a little rocky at dinner (our waiter was feeling a little 'mabuk laut' ) but it was not too bad & it did not stop the dancers from performing at the show. At bedtime I stuck my head out of the door to the promenade deck. It was very wet & windy so I tried the other side, thinking I would be able to go out for a little air on the sheltered side. No joy, it was even worse on that side, so I scuttled off to bed. During the night I awoke with the lurching of the ship & lay half asleep for some time until things improved enough to sleep. Next day the staff were seen picking their goods off the floor of the shop. Sounds like we got off lightly though. FIL is not a good sailor & did not like it. I gave him a sea-sickness pill & he slept for two days. I made a mental note to repeat the dose.

 

I got my reward for my unkind thoughts though, & picked up a bit of a cold on the last day, so I have been a little under the weather this week. I find that planes & ships are bad places for acquiring viral illnesses of various sorts. I suppose that poor air quality & the recycling of the air contributes.

 

Ruby: I was very interested to hear that your daughter is a physician with the Scottish Fiddle Orchestra (SFO). Does she play the fiddle herself?

 

Graham.

[bcscot]

This Scottish Canadian very much enjoys the classical trios or quintets which are a standard feature of HAL cruises. They are mainly Eastern European & vary in quality. The violinist on Ryndam was very good indeed, while the one on Prinsendam sometimes sounded like he was strangling a cat. The Westerdam had an excellent trio of young Canadian musicians. I enjoy sitting in the Explorers' Lounge listening to the classical music & usually the audience are well behaved. On this occasion, I sometimes kept my FIL company in the Ocean Bar where a very good Filipino quartet played a wide range of contemporary music. The show cast was also one of the best I have seen.

 

The show lounge on Prinsendam was also very small. They did however have dance lessons on Prinsendam, but I need more than the occasional lesson!

 

Afternoon tea is not one of the strong points on HAL ships, but it was improved on this occasion, by a passing pod of whales. They have also started an Indonesion afternoon tea, which is quite interesting with the waiters dressed in Batik & Indonesian tea & food being served.

 

I enjoyed your further observations of Saga Rose; thank you.

 

Graham.

[dougnewmanatsea]

When you visit Saga Ruby (sigh) in NYC, would you please tell me what, if any, differences you see in the Britannia Lounge? I was only in there for an hour on one day on Saga Rose and, when I walked in thru the North Cape Bar, the Britannia Lounge seemed like a twin.

I imagine Conte can give more details having seen both in person but the two rooms are very similar, yet very different. (I know, that does not help!) The biggest thing that is noticeable is that the one on ROSE still has its original wood paneling whereas on RUBY this has gone the way of the dodo. There is also different furniture and the color scheme is different, being reddish on RUBY and greenish on ROSE.

 

On both ships it is very, very different from what it looked like when new - again, the layout is the same but everything is very much changed, except for that paneling on ROSE. There used to be screens separating the center section of the room from the outer part with the windows, the furniture was all different, the columns were different, lighting was different (no crystal chandelier), of course the colors were different etc.

 

Can anyone clarify the following? My daughter tells me that the staff on Veendam was Indonesian. It was all Filipino when I was on the Rotterdam centuries ago. Is it true that HAL is now an "all Indonesian" staff, a mixture, what?

Not all Indonesian but there are certainly a lot of them.

 

The service staff are almost all either Indonesian or Filipino. HAL pretty much pioneered the use of Indonesians, who have recently shown up on other cruise lines as well. However there is still a little variation here as e.g. I have had an Indian head waiter on HAL. But the service staff has still got to be 95% or more Indonesian and Filipino.

 

The deck and engine officers are almost all Dutch and British. Senior hotel management tends to be Dutch but can be more varied.

 

Over time things have certainly "loosened up" a bit at HAL as at one time in the not too distant past the officers were all Dutch and the service staff all Indonesian and Filipino (and apparently all Filipino before that). Now they mostly stick to that formula except for the many British officers, but there is definitely some more flexibility there. As time goes on it has been harder and harder to keep to the tradition of having different departments comprised solely of one nationality. There has also been considerable trouble with immigration problems for the Indonesians in the US since 9/11 as Indonesia is of course a mostly Muslim country.

 

At each seat was a foot-tall chef's hat for the diners to wear. I thought that it was even more demeaning than the hats for the Dutch Nights.

I have not had the misfortune of experiencing this... Yet. My most recent HAL cruise was right before they started it. It sounds awful.

 

I will say that Rudi Sodamin has, IMHO, done a nice job improving the food on HAL - but I wish he would have stuck to menu planning.

 

As for the hats on Dutch Night, I always hated them. And still do, assuming they still exist on longer cruises. On the other hand I love the Dutch Night food. Usually I have a small portion of bami goreng as my starter (even though it's actually a main course), then erwetensoep (pea soup), Dover Sole (I forget the Dutch name for that) and appeltaart. The only dark spot, aside from the hats, is that I just can't warm to the Dutch Night salad offerings.

 

A lot of people hate Dutch Night's menu - presumably this is why it has been abolished from the shorter cruises - but I'm convinced that mostly comes from the fact that it all looks "scary and foreign" due to the fact that the names are in Dutch (!) as the food itself is not that unusual. But as I said, I do wish they'd get rid of those daft hats, which I refuse to wear.

 

On my Rotterdam cruise in 1989, all the crew except for the officers were indeed Filipinos. A few years ago Indonesians were recruited to serve in the dining rooms and buffet, while Filipinos continued to serve in the lounges and public rooms. I am not sure about the cabin stewards, but I think that they are also all Indonesians. What say you, Graham?

This is interesting. I had always read that the Indonesians and Filipinos came at the same time - that is, when HAL stopped using all-Dutch crews sometime in the 1970s. It's the first time I've heard that the Indonesians came later but I don't doubt you as both you and Ruby seem to remember the same thing.

 

Cabin stewards are Indonesian along with the waiters.

 

On the Ryndam they had Indian cooks also & I was very upset to miss the Indian curry buffet out at the Lido pool on the Glacier Bay day when we were busy glacier watching. I checked & it was not advertised anywhere. We 'LOVE' Indian food & were suitably 'miffed'!

I am sorry you missed it as when I had it on the ROTTERDAM it was really good. In fact it was some of the best food I had on that cruise (and the food was quite good, overall). The selection was quite amazing and as I do not get to eat Indian food all that often it was a real treat.

[bcscot]

I am sorry you missed it as when I had it on the ROTTERDAM it was really good. In fact it was some of the best food I had on that cruise (and the food was quite good, overall). The selection was quite amazing and as I do not get to eat Indian food all that often it was a real treat.

 

GO ON. RUB IT IN, WHY DON'T YOU!!!:mad:

 

We had Indian food on the Prinsendam which was good but very mild. The thing that may have made it better on Ryndam, was the presence of Indian cooks. Donald, I hope that you like Indian food because I expect a full report after your Ryndam cruise!

 

Now, young Douglas, I do not often get the chance to educate you, so I am going to make the most of it!:)

 

Bami goreng is a vegetarian fried noodle dish which HAL serve at the midnight buffet, often at the end of the cruise (I wanted it on saturday night but could not quite face it at 11.30pm after late dinner!). They often serve it very hot with spices, way more than most North Americans would like. I have suspected that they are either taking end of cruise revenge & having a good laugh, or knowing that the passengers will not eat it, the crew will get to finish it!:D

 

The 'Dutch night' main course is 'Nasi Goreng'; literally fried rice. I suspect this is what you have for a starter (oink oink). Technically speaking, what they give you is a 'ricetafel', using the Dutch word, meaning a selection of different dishes. In this case it is a combination of:-

 

Nasi goreng- fried rice with egg, shrimps, chicken & beef.

Ayam goreng- fried chicken.

Satay Ayam- chicken kebab with a peanut sauce.

Rendang sapi- beef stew in a coconut sauce.

Pisang goreng- banana fritter.

Kerupuk udang- prawn crackers.

 

Now to complement this you have to ask for Sambal, a very hot chilli sauce. This makes a wonderful meal & we always look forward to it, although my wife makes excellent Indonesian food at home (Indian curries too:p ).

 

Graham.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

GOOD MORNING LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AND GERMS (Just kidding Graham!!!...I hope your cold is better...LOL.)

 

Wow...catching up on this thread has made me hungry! I love rijsttafel and curries. I often cook my own curry and make my own chutney.

 

Good to hear everyone had a great time "out there"...welcome home.

 

Ross

[Saga Ruby]

Graham - yes, after years of tortuous lessons and hellish hours of practice, my daughter is now a master of the kazoo. Color me proud.

 

I am a b-i-g fan of nasi goreng and enjoy ordering it all over the world, including Dallas, to see which permutation of that dish will be served. Originally I had the dish in Singapore back in 1992, and have enjoyed it ever since. My current favourite is the nasi goreng served on Nautica last year - creative and beautifully presented. As you know, the goreng family is wide and broad - and delish. I admire your wife for being able to combine all those exotic ingredients into savoury dishes.

 

About the acronym of SFO - over the many decades of air travel, early on I developed a habit of checking the paper baggage tag used by the ticket counter lady. One day I was checking in to fly overseas and saw her put "OGG" on my cases. I quickly asked what OGG stood for and she replied, "Maui - where you are going." Whew! Did you know that Chicago is "ORD" because the original airfield was Orchard Field? I could go on but it would leave you gasping with apathy. Nowadays the luggage tag is issued by the computer that also issues your boarding pass so I have fallen out of the habit of double-checking the acronym.

 

To all you ship daft people - now see? I'm not ever gonna pay attention to colours of wood paneling on a ship versus her original decor of 40 years ago. Speaking of ship daft:

 

Conte - check out The Library on Saga Ruby. It's quite different from Saga Rose. I loved the huge globe in the "cove" but ironically, while it did spin on a 180-degree vertical axis, it would not turn horizontally so that we could trace our journey from Dover to Svalbard and those wonderful polar bears. Ah, the irony.

 

Ruby

[bcscot]

Ruby: If your daughter could give lessons to all of us, we would be able to pipe you aboard with the kazoo!

 

Did you know that on HAL ships, the bellboy still comes through the ship playing the Xylophone to announce dinner? Just another nice traditional touch.

 

Regarding those 'masthead' scores of number of CC postings, which remain up to date on all the old postings. Have you noticed that name changes go all the way back too? Doug is now 'dougnewmanatsea' going way back. Also, 'Beckiedance' has become 'nolongeramember'. I don't know how that happens.

 

Ross; Thank you for the correct Dutch spelling of rijsttafel. I was not sure on that one (but ssshhh, don't tell Doug!).

 

Graham.

[dougnewmanatsea]

We had Indian food on the Prinsendam which was good but very mild. The thing that may have made it better on Ryndam, was the presence of Indian cooks.

We did have a few on ROTTERDAM, as I recall, and that may have made the difference.

 

It was still mild-ish because of the intended audience of Americans, but not as mild as some other Indian I've had... Strangely for example the Indian food I have eaten on Cunard has been very mild.

 

Bami goreng is a vegetarian fried noodle dish which HAL serve at the midnight buffet, often at the end of the cruise (I wanted it on saturday night but could not quite face it at 11.30pm after late dinner!).

I have seen (and had) it at lunch too. I don't know why I said bami goreng for Dutch Night as of course you won't find it there, or at least not in my experience anyway.

 

I must admit I was not familiar with the names of the other dishes you mentioned, though I have eaten them.

 

I could go on but it would leave you gasping with apathy.

I have actually always found airport codes interesting, so that makes two of us who would not be apathetic ;) .

 

Another odd one is MCO, Orlando, for "McCoy Air Force Base". Or New Orleans, MSY, for Moisant Stock Yards.

 

To all you ship daft people - now see? I'm not ever gonna pay attention to colours of wood paneling on a ship versus her original decor of 40 years ago.

Well, you asked what the difference was ;) !

 

In layout terms I think they are exactly the same - possibly the only area where this is true.

[Saga Ruby]

Ruby: If your daughter could give lessons to all of us, we would be able to pipe you aboard with the kazoo! . . . Did you know that on HAL ships, the bellboy still comes through the ship playing the Xylophone to announce dinner? Just another nice traditional touch.Graham.

 

Admiral Ma'm is absolutely fascinated with the concept of being piped aboard by a kazoo salute. What a marvy idea! I often said I would never buy a Rolls Royce because (a) I wouldn't be caught dead driving it, and (b) choosing colours for the chauffeur's livery made my head hurt. But now I'm thinkin' about appropriate uniforms for the staff and crew on the Nostalgia Cruise. It's that Damoclean sword thingie - the weight of responsibility.

 

RVL used a xylophone for dinner call and for "the sheep eees leeving." I still miss it. But I miss streamers too . . . .

 

D'maniac - Funny you should mention Constantinople. When my guide and I visited Sultan Ahmet Mosque (the Blue Mosque) and walked the 300 yard to Hagia Sophia, I sat in the park connecting the two ancient structures and thought that I had just walked from Istanbul to Constantinople.

 

Then I'm in the Orkneys a month ago at the digs of Skara Brae and we are told that these ruins are older than the Pyramids which I visited in August. I'm a lucky gal.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

D'maniac - Funny you should mention Constantinople. When my guide and I visited Sultan Ahmet Mosque (the Blue Mosque) and walked the 300 yard to Hagia Sophia, I sat in the park connecting the two ancient structures and thought that I had just walked from Istanbul to Constantinople.

 

Ruby

 

While "Istanbul" is an deeply intriguing name hinting at the mysteries at the door to the Far East, I really like "Constantinople" for its historical value. I read somewhere that when the Orient Express was re-started two or three decades ago, the names of the stops in the published itinerary used their historical names to emphasize its history, and "Constantinople" was used. I don't know if this is still the case.

 

I like "Constantinople" for the same reason that I prefer "Saigon" to "Ho Chi Minh City".

 

I'm still recovering from a skidding-hard landing to the realities of everday home life after my cruise to Alaska on the Zaandam, but I will eventually describe the highlights. Graham has aptly mentioned many of the similar aspects of our cruises, so I will not touch on these. How fortunate that his Ryndam was in the storm for only an hour, while I tossed and turned through eight hours!

 

Here are a couple of photographs which I took at 1:15am during my Fun House stroll during the storm. The first one was snapped through the doors of the duty-free shop, with the paperback rack toppled onto the floor. The second is in the corridor beside the wine-order section, where there were three imitation champagne bottles on the counter, and two had toppled over, one being lodged against the opposite wall and the other rolling around in the corridor. I had to step over it on my way back to my cabin. It was fun descending and ascending several decks of pitching stairs! I had to cling to the bannisters for dear life.

 

Cheers,

D'maniac.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI GANG!!!

 

Donald, Your pictures reminded me of a storm I once went through on the North Atlantic. We were on the QE II in October 1975 and we ran into the remnants of a hurricane as we were mid-Atlantic. The head winds on the bridge of the QE II had been clocked at 110 mph that day. The ship was rolling and pitching but we managed to make it to the pub...LOL. That evening the seas got worse. We started to hit some really big trench waves. Around Midnight...I was having a nightcap in the casino bar and Tony (who had been a fixture on Cunard for years) was tending bar. I was sitting at the bar holding on as the ship was diving wildly. There was one other chap seated a few stools down from me. I also noticed how quiet the casino was...nobody there except these two older ladies who were fighting their way towards us. Just then...I heard Tony shout..."HOLD ON TIGHT"!!! Tony braced himself with his feet planted against the bottom of the bar and his arms spread out over the bottle racks above him. The ship took a dive...later estimated at 75 feet or more...and I looked to my left and saw the two ladies hanging on to each other for dear life...as they were not near any furniture and had not made it to the bar. As the ship dove I watched in horror as the two ladies were in mid air with their legs extended parallel to the floor...they must have been 5 feet off the deck!!! When the ship landed there was a terrible crash...you could hear glass breaking all over the ship. The man beside me was flat out on the deck as he must have fallen off the stool. The two ladies seemed to have floated down to the floor and thank heavens they landed on soft carpet...they were all right. Tony had saved most of his bottles and managed to stay upright. We both looked at each other in astonishment. I went down to my cabin and turned on the lights. Diane, my wife, was sleeping peacefully in bed. Every closet and drawer had emtied into the middle of the cabin...I swear there was a stack 4 feet high in the center of the cabin...LOL. Diane opened her eyes and asked..."What happened?"...LOL...now there is a good sailor!!! LOL!!! The crew must have spent the remainder of the night cleaning up...it was a good thing that most of the pax had gone to bed.

 

Ross

[Saga Ruby]

I like "Constantinople" for the same reason that I prefer "Saigon" to "Ho Chi Minh City". . . I'm still recovering from a skidding-hard landing to the realities of everyday home life after my cruise to Alaska on the Zaandam. D'maniac.

 

I will never call that city anything but Saigon. Same for Burma. Fuggedaboudit.

 

D'maniac - may I enquire as to the "skidding-hard landing" you had when you returned home? Also, I sympathize with you "clutching both handrails" outside Alaska." Been there, done that. And hearing the sickening sounds of the entire ship’s "loose" contents being hurled to the floor is a sound you never forget.

 

When I asked my Saga Rose cabin steward how the other cabins were after The Churning, he just shook his head and said it was going to be a long morning of cleaning up. And that happened several times on my Saga Rose cruise. When Michael rejoins our cruise, maybe he’ll have exciting tales of derring-do to pass along. Oh. Wait. He’s on a river cruise.

 

Wow, I wish I could see a photo of the QE2 falling the length of a 6-story building. Wouldn’t that cause structural damage?

 

Anybody got any ideas about which song should be played for the Kazoo Salute at the gangway of the Nostalgia Cruise? We need a olde but honourable tune of yesteryear.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

D'maniac - may I enquire as to the "skidding-hard landing" you had when you returned home?

Ruby

 

It was back to the reality of everday life - having to make my bed, shake my martinis, prepare my meals and many other things that I didn't have to do aboard cruise ships. When's my next cruise? Oh, yes, in eight more weeks!

 

I'm with you about the name Burma. I find Mumbai and Kolkata hard to digest. Cape Canaveral was re-named Cape Kennedy between 1963 and 1973, but it was never accepted by the local residents. I thought that it was a big loss when Idlewild Airport was re-named JFK Airport. I had grown up with newspaper articles and newsreels of movie stars and famous people arriving or departing from Idlewild.

 

Donald D'maniac.