Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Druke I]

Reference the Great Lakes; there is a rumor that Hornblower Yachts may buy the Cape class packet boats that were built for the Delta Queen Company just before 9-11, and run them into the Great Lakes.

 

They have been in storage by the federal Maritime agency, and I think tied up in the James River.

 

These neat little packet boats have 114 cabins , and will easily fit through the locks of the St. Lawrence Seaway and all the way to the Great Lakes.

 

Reference Oriana - I'd love to travel on her or her running mate Aurora. I sailed twice on the original Oriana, and in her day she was a very fast runner out to the Antipodes from Great Britain. The first time on Oriana, 1964, we were in 1st class Court cabin; the second time, Christmas 1970, in a cabin without facilities (read 2nd or tourist class), down on F deck.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Antarctica is also on my list but my timing was poor. At the exact moment I decided to sail there, a bloat of hippos, oh excuse me - cruise ships - started plowing routes to the continent, so I did a sharp U-turn and am headed north. Also, I am dedicated to doing Antarctica either as a Saga voyage or on Oceania which I also prefer.

I don't recommend Oceania for Antarctica. All you do is "scenic cruising"... No landings.

 

The largest ships that actually make landings in Antarctica are DISCOVERY, MARCO POLO and SAGA RUBY - about the same size as the Oceania ships in terms of passenger capacity but they operate at reduced capacity on these cruises.

 

IMHO the way to see Antarctica is on a small ship, 200 passengers max. The reason for this is you can only land 100 passengers at a time, so if you are on a 100 passenger ship you can go ashore 100% of the time, a 200 passenger ship 50% of the time, a 300 passenger ship 33% of the time and so on. I think DISCOVERY, MARCO POLO and SAGA RUBY carry around 500 passengers on these cruises so you only get to go on 20% of the ship's landings. In a week most ships will make the same number of landings but the size of the ship is the difference between getting to make 1 or 2 landings or 5 or 6. For many this justifies the cost of sailing in one of the small ships.

 

Reference the Great Lakes; there is a rumor that Hornblower Yachts may buy the Cape class packet boats that were built for the Delta Queen Company just before 9-11, and run them into the Great Lakes.

The Hornblower deal is dead but MARAD is negotiating with another buyer.

[bcscot]

I too would like to cruise the great lakes on the C. Columbus. We had our eyes on a St. Lawrence cruise for next year, but had to sacrifice the idea for the QE2 trips.

I hope your crockery remains static enough for you to enjoy every meal Ruby! Had heard that the Oceania 'Regatta' class ships did not take the rough seas so well; maybe another reason not to go to the Antartic on them? The new ones may be better.

 

Graham.

[Conte Di Savoia]

So Ruby, we have been at this since last March when August seemed far away. I wish you a Bon Voyage!!

 

Conte

[bcscot]

I was reading a reminder of community guidelines from LauraS, community manager, on the 'whatever happened to....' board.She was telling people to stick to the title subject of the thread, otherwise she was threatening to relegate them to "Floataway Lounge"!! It sounds like 'Monopoly'; "Go directly to Floataway Lounge, do not pass Go...etc". I hope that we are not at risk of losing our quiet little corner here once Rugy has been on 'Saga Rose, Greenland, 2007', or that we are deemed to be too far off topic. Maybe Doug. will vouch for us! Otherwise we may have to mutiny!

 

Have a great trip Ruby & I hope to hear all about it, right here, when you return.

 

Graham.

[Saga Ruby]

Thanks to you all for the bon voyage wishes. I wish we could meet for one grand Bon Voyage party onboard Saga Rose with streamers dancing in the sea breeze and the ship’s horn blowing, a porter walking the decks with his xylophone ringing the "all ashore who’s going ashore" chime.

 

I hope Saga Rose performs the same maneuver as Saga Ruby and spins 180 degrees in place at the dockside of the old Victorian Cruise Terminal. It is thrilling to watch her dancing a pirouette on the marine blue waters with the White Cliffs of Dover in the distance. Her bow misses the pier’s tire barricade by this much.

 

I am off to Folkestone on Friday for the weekend, then on to join Saga Rose on Monday. If my cliff-diving experience off the icebergs near Disko Bay goes against me, I would like to thank all of you who have made this thread into such a marvelous Nostalgia Cruise. I started out in January with 34 views for more than two months, then Conte kindly spoke up, and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

It has been a great personal pleasure to participate in, and exchange information with, all of you. I intend to make notes on cocktail napkins, ship’s stationery, and graffiti reminders on walls so as to return with a personal review of Saga Rose.

 

To quote Conte de Savoia - The sheep ees leeving.

 

Ruby

[bcscot]

Bon voyage Ruby! Yer nae awa tae byde awa, yer nae awa tae leave us, yer nae awa tae byde awa, ye'll aye come back an see us! Haste ye back!

 

It would be nice if we could keep this thread of Ruby's going till she returns with her tales of northern adventures. I am still waiting to hear more on the France's interior decor!

 

Conte: I was interested to hear that you have been on the Oriana. She is a ship upon which I would like to sail. The video of the 'Liners' with JM-G about which I spoke, was made in 1995 & features the 'new' Oriana. There was footage of her sailing through the Suez Canal & also arriving in Sydney, on her maiden voyage. She looked beautiful, & has a name with great tradition. Did you enjoy sailing on her?

Douglas Ward in his book, 'Ocean Cruising & Cruise Ships', rather unkindly, I think, says that Oriana is suitable for "tabloid reading adults of all ages", which he does not say of Aurora. I do not understand why he would say this of one & not t'other.

Do you think she is a good alternative to the QE2? The Lord Linley table in the library looks lovely. I would like to sail on her, the Aurora & also the Arcadia. So far I have not sailed on P&O, but they are on my list!

 

Which ship in the opinion & experience of all you 'old hands' out there, gives an experience closest to the ocean liners of old? Some say QE2, but others disagree.

 

Welcome back Donald. How was Hubbard Glacier? I hope you had all the beautiful sunny weather that we have been having, although it has been a bit windy. Our first cruise to Alaska was at this time of year, on the Volendam, & it was glorious sunny weather all week, until the last day. It certainly makes a difference in Alaska!

 

I hope to hear some of all your opinions on these matters. Thanks.

Graham.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

BON VOYAGE RUBY!!!

This thread has been a joy to follow and I expect that we will continue the discussion as it pertains to SAGA and the classic ships of yore.

 

So Ruby...we hope you have a great voyage and come back to us with all sorts of tall tales and ocean liner stories.

 

ROSS

[Kapricorn]

I am reading John Maxtone-Graham's book 'Liners To The Sun' at the moment. Nice picture of Rotterdam V in Rio on the cover.

Graham.

 

Hi, Graham -

 

I got off the Mercury this morning, after a delightful cruise to Alaska and back. While in Juneau, I passed a book store and saw the book "Liners to the Sun" among those in its window display, so I went in and purchased it on the spot. I had heard of this book, but never seen it until now. Haven't read it yet, but am looking forward to it. Terrific photographs, though.

 

Donald.

[bcscot]

CGT: I have a question for you regarding the classic ships of yore.

I enjoyed reading your stories of sailing on the 'France'. I wanted to sail on her, even as the 'Norway', but alas I was too late. John Maxtone-Graham, in his book 'Liners to the Sun', claims that the interiors of the QE2 were superior to the France. I have seen pictures of the France's original interiors & thought them very 1960s & not to my taste. I imagine that QE2's original interiors were just as '60s', until they were changed. Did you get a chance to see both ships for comparison, & did you see the France in her original 1960s decor? I would be very interested in your opinions.

Thank you.

Graham.

[Kapricorn]

Welcome back Donald. How was Hubbard Glacier? I hope you had all the beautiful sunny weather that we have been having, although it has been a bit windy. Our first cruise to Alaska was at this time of year, on the Volendam, & it was glorious sunny weather all week, until the last day. It certainly makes a difference in Alaska!

Graham.

 

Thank you, Graham, for the "welcome back"! Hubbard Glacier was splendid, despite the day being overcast and the chilliest that I've ever experienced there. However, the scenery is always spectacular no matter what the weather is (see photograph which I took on this cruise).

 

I've been on the Volendam, a nice ship. She was in Skagway & Ketchikan at the same time as the Mercury, and she was behind us as we sailed into Vancouver this morning.

 

Donald.

[bcscot]

We posted at the same time,then I had to run off to the BBQ.

Sorry it was so cold. It has been glorious here but there was a cool wind when I was on the ferry. What will it be like in september if it was so cold in july?!!

I have been to Glacier Bay three times (fourth on Ryndam), & College Fjord twice, but never Hubbard Glacier (yet).

Funny you should just get 'Liners to the Sun' too. My wife just bought it for me locally. It is an interesting book.

Have to run back to the BBQ.

 

Graham.

[bcscot]

Conte: If I understand correctly, you are going on the above cruise on the 30th of this month. Wonderful! I looked it up & I think it looks like a very good circumnavigation of the British Isles. The ten days on the QE2 is just too short. The extra four days makes all the difference. You too go to Orkney & may see the ancient settlement of Skarra Brae. Sailing into Portree on Skye & Tobermoray on Mull; wow! They are beautiful places. I have only sailed there on ferries but would love to do so on the Saga Rose. I hope the weather is kind to you as that makes all the difference in that part of the world. The colours of the seas on the west coast of Scotland are legendary. The Channel Islands are special too. We used to go there for summer holidays.

Have you sailed on Saga ships before? I would like to hear how you think they rate in terms of 'classic cruising'. For that matter, how did the Oriana rate?

 

Donald: Which edition of "Liners to the Sun' did you get? My one is a 1985 first edition which has a dust cover which folds out into a wonderful poster of mid-1980s ships. It includes the Mardi Gras, Carnivale, Norway, Stella Polaris(some are pictures of older ships, I think), Rotterdam V, the old Oriana Druke I, the old Caronia & many, many others. A lovely thing to have.

Now, when I recently got Saga brochures sent to me, I thought it looked like both ships had had additional top decks added with balconies, like they did to France/Norway. However they look the same as Sagafjord & Vistafjord on this poster. This makes me wonder if they had additions built on, when Cunard took them over. Maybe Doug. could answer this one.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

CGT: I have a question for you regarding the classic ships of yore.

I enjoyed reading your stories of sailing on the 'France'. I wanted to sail on her, even as the 'Norway', but alas I was too late. John Maxtone-Graham, in his book 'Liners to the Sun', claims that the interiors of the QE2 were superior to the France. I have seen pictures of the France's original interiors & thought them very 1960s & not to my taste. I imagine that QE2's original interiors were just as '60s', until they were changed. Did you get a chance to see both ships for comparison, & did you see the France in her original 1960s decor? I would be very interested in your opinions.

Thank you.

Graham.

 

HELLO GRAHAM!!!

 

Looks like Ruby has taken off for foreign lands...lol.

 

The short answer is YES...I was able to see the FRANCE in her original glory...and I felt like a lot of ship-lovers...a bit let down...you did expect a glimpse of the NORMANDIE...and what you got was the "Swinging 60's"...lol. There were bits and pieces of the FRANCE where you felt the fleeting glory of the CGT...in the Theater, the Library, the Music Room, in some of the sitting areas, etc. There were public areas that had exquisite stainless walls and they would lead out to that wonderful Promenade. The First Class Swimming Pool was a 'head turner". Of course the Salon Chambord...the First Class Dining Room...was sensational. The Grand Staircase down under the famous dome and all that inlaid elm paneling was just exquisite. The incredible thing about the SS FRANCE was the atmosphere. Almost all of the seasoned personnel had served on the ILE DE FRANCE or the LIBERTE'. I had a table captain who could remember being carried onboard the NORMANDIE by his father when he was a child. Most of the waiters and stewards were third and fourth generation with the CGT. They knew instinctively how to set the pace and tone for the crossing. They had a way...working as a group...ensemble...of elevating the cruise atmosphere...to the point whereby the 3rd day out you felt you were walking on the clouds. Everything was the best...you could have some of the greatest food, wine and service in the world...it was all there just for the asking. I can remember going for an after dinner drink in one of the quiet lounges and being handed a list of cognacs that were so rare that you could not even remember the names (and believe me...I knew them all...LOL). The wine list was more than 25 pages long...and it was just fantastic. The best Champagne was $10 a bottle and it flowed constantly...it was nothing to meet friends before dinner and take turns buying the Champagne...and going through 3 or 4 bottles...sometimes more.

 

It is funny but when the ship became the NORWAY she still retained that cache'...even a bit of legend with it. The improvements really complimented the original decor. The Grand Lounge was actually improved upon and became more of what you thought the FRANCE should have looked like...lol. The Grand Lounge...I forget the real name...was really a throwback to the elegance of the 1930's...it was superb. You could still relive those transatlantic days onboard the NORWAY...although the great CGT crew had vanished forever...and that was sad. I met John Maxtone Graham oboard the NORWAY in 1993. I think he truly loved that ship. I was very fortunate to have been able to sail on both. It seems remarkable to me now...as I am "only" 58 years old...to have been fortunate enought to have sailed on the classics.

 

THE QE II: You have to understand...my first ship was my first love...the original QUEEN ELIZABETH. I was extremely lucky to have sailed transatlantic on the QUEEN ELIZABETH at the tender age of 16. The QE was eclipsed by her sister, the QUEEN MARY. Many ocean liner enthusiasts never got to know the QUEEN ELIZABETH. She had one of the greatest profiles of any ship to have sailed the Atlantic run. She was everything the Queen Mary was but without the clunky deck clutter and overstuffed look of the QM. That wonderful never ending paneling that went on forever in all the companionways...the use of rare woods in that fantastic 3 story paneled back drop to the main First Class staircase...was just exquisite.

 

So you can imagine my horror when viewing the QUEEN ELIZABETH II when I first stepped aboard her in 1975. The only thing I really liked was the First Class Reception area...with the sea green leather couches and black carpeting etc. The rest of the ship reminded me of a spaceship...even the slanted venturi-like windows that surrounded the outdoor pool bothered me. They showed up some years later in the pool scene of my favorite PBS series..."Brideshead Revisited"...and they were just as ugly and out of place...LOL. I could not get over how the service had changed onboard the QE II...when compared to the original Queens. The Cabin Class on the old Queens had been wonderful...the Tourist Class on the new QE II was horrid. I was on a Cunarder and I was having a "foreign experience". Nothing could have been more obvious than that change in service style that Cunard had so carefully nurtured all those years. It was gone...just vanished. The QE II is and was a very well made ship...but it never had any of the cache' that the old Queens had.

 

So Graham...while the interiors of the QE II might have been better in terms of design...they were not better to me...in terms of the Cunard traditions. I preferred the SS FRANCE to the QE II. Neither one could live up to the past with their newer interiors but I have to say...the FRANCE had a certain style, atmosphere and allure that was head and shoulders above the QE II.

 

A sad footnote: The SS FRANCE had all this heavy duty tripple chrome plated Bauhaus style chairs and lounges...they were big and very comfortable...but still very 60's...but in a classic way. When the NORWAY was making her way across the Atlantic for the first time...the crew was dumping those wonderful pieces into the ocean. I really wish they had unloaded them in New York and auctioned them off.

 

There you go Graham.:)

 

ROSS

[bcscot]

Ross: Thank you. That was great, & answered my question fully. I note that you are not such an "old", 'old guard'!

I think I can understand what you are saying about the special atmosphere on the French ships, & I think Conte alluded to this also on the Italian ships. France & Italy have always had that Mediterranean 'flare' that is lacking in the northern nations; a certain special, artistic & soulful atmosphere, unique to those nations. I am certainly sad that I missed experiencing those ships. I note that JM-G wrote a book about the Norway, so I daresay he loved the ship. My early memory of the France was of a plastic Airfix model of her which I built as a child!

 

I have however visited Queen Mary at Long Beach. I will be in San Diego in october & hope to go up & stay a night on her, if she is still open for business. If we achieve that & our plans to sail on QE2 & QM2 next year, we would have been on three generations of Cunard Queens in a year. That just appeals to me. Did you ever get a chance to visit the old Queen Elizabeth during her brief stay in Florida before she went on her final journey to Hong Kong?

 

I too enjoyed 'Brideshead' & have it on tape plus the 'collectors edition' on DVD, along with a large collection of other British/PBS drama series which I love. Favourites include 'Upstairs Downstairs' & 'Edward the King'. I can hear murmurings of 'Floataway Lounge' in the background now!! Thanks again for the benefit of your experiences.

 

Conte: Sorry, I just remembered after reading your vast list of ships, that you said you had been on Sagafjord but not as the Rose. Was she still Royal Viking Line then & did she have that top deck with the balconies? You would be in a perfect position to compare. More wisdom & experience is requested from the 'old guard'. Thank you.

 

DrukeI: You said you were on the Nautica from Istanbul to Singapore. That is another trip & Line that I would love to go on. You chaps seem to be good at choosing all the best trips & ships! How did you find both the trip & Oceania. How did you find the 'Renaissance Class' ship in rough seas? I have heard that they do not take the heavy seas so well. Is this true? I would be grateful for your opinion, thank you.

 

Many thanks again to all, for sharing all of your vast body of experience & knowledge with us here. It is definately what makes these pages so interesting.

Graham.

[Druke I]

We have been on three of the R-class ships: Pacific Princess (new) Papeete to Sydney, Regatta into the Baltic, and Nautica Istanbul to Singapore.

 

Saga Ruby was on Nautica same time we were, and we became friends. It was an enjoyable itinerary through the Suez - something I always wanted to see.

 

The Tasman Sea was smooth for Pacific Princess, the North Sea was smooth for Regatta, and we had smooth sailing while on Nautica.

 

We'll be on Regatta again, 3-08, for a trans-Atlantic, Miami to Barcelona, and back on Nautica 3-09 for New Zealand and Australia.

 

I've heard that the R-class can be rough riders -we've only experienced smooth seas, and had rougher rides on some much bigger ships. Ride has a lot to do with hull shape and form, although sea state certainly makes a huge difference.

 

We like Oceania very much. Although I consider myself a Traditionalist, I do find their dress code very enjoyable, and it greatly simplifies the packing process.

 

Oceania's food is very good, superior to HAL and even Crystal, we think. They don't have elaborate production shows like many of the mainstream lines, but have an excellent string quartet that plays in the evening. There are also singers and lecturers.

[Kapricorn]

Donald: Which edition of "Liners to the Sun' did you get? My one is a 1985 first edition which has a dust cover which folds out into a wonderful poster of mid-1980s ships. It includes the Mardi Gras, Carnivale, Norway, Stella Polaris(some are pictures of older ships, I think), Rotterdam V, the old Oriana Druke I, the old Caronia & many, many others. A lovely thing to have.

 

Hi, Graham -

 

The edition which I purchased in Juneau is the 2000 paperback version. Your 1985 first edition sounds much better, with that dust cover!

 

I've read John Maxtone-Graham's "The Only Way to Cross" three or four times over the past few decades. What a truly fantastic book! I always learn something new each time I read it.

 

Cheers,

Donald.

[bcscot]

Thank you Michael. It certainly sounds like you have plenty of experience with the old Renaissance ships. We have seen the Regatta & the Insignia in St Petersburg & Valetta, & also the Royal Princess. We are attracted by the size, the style & the 'English country house' decor. We look forward to trying Oceania, but at this rate we will be looking at at least 2010! It has been hard to drag ourselves away from HAL, but now that SOLAS has helped us to do this, there are so many good ships & Lines to experience.Celebrity is also on the list.

 

Michael, you said that you were on the old Oriana. Was that for a cruise or were you travelling to Australia, chosing to go by ship rather than by plane? I would like to hear about Conte's experiences on the new Oriana also.

 

I was reading an interesting conversation on the Cunard board about the suitability of the new Carnival Corporation 'Vista' style of ships for world cruising. It is an interesting question, but how suitable will ships like Queen Victoria, Arcadia, Aurora & the new HAL Signature Class vessels be for world cruises? Any comments anyone?

 

Is everyone familiar with the story of the Queen Victoria? The Queen Mary was to be named Queen Victoria. The Cunard officials approached King George V,(Queen Victoria's grandson) to ask for his permission. They said that they would like to name this new ship after Britain's most glorious queen ( or words to that effect) & King George replied, "Oh my wife will be pleased"! So, Queen Mary she became, & only now are we to have the Queen Victoria!

Further to Ross's comments on the Queens & the French ships, I do think that if you look at Queen Mary, you see some of the old fashioned style of bygone ships such as Titanic etc, but the Queen Elizabeth has a little more of the modern & futuristic lines of the French ships.

It is good however that at least we still have Queen Mary & QE2,but very sad that the France will be gone.

 

Graham.

[bcscot]

Donald: We are posting at the same time again! I will have to look out for 'Only Way to Cross'. Must run, dinner time again!

 

Graham.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Donald: We are posting at the same time again! I will have to look out for 'Only Way to Cross'. Must run, dinner time again!

 

Graham.

 

HI GRAHAM!!!

 

You will definitely love 'THE ONLY WAY TO CROSS'...it is an enchanting history by a ship lover for ship lovers.

 

I have to agree...the Italian and the French knew how to please the customers...and their styles were definitely different. I have to also say that the Germans are probably the most neglected when it comes to retelling the transatlantic stories. My experience on the BREMEN in 1971 was just fantastic. I also believe the Dutch had a great company with HAL..and just as different. Then you had the Swedes and Norwegians...but don't forget the Polish. The Polish also ran a great company and many people thought they were fantastic too. Reminds me of the story of how the Poles ran the STEPHAN BATORY with a First Class Restaurant...until around 1973 when the ruling communists found out about it and put an end to what had been a wonderful dining venue.

 

ROSS

[Druke I]

The 1st time I was on Oriana, 7-64, was a 3 night coastal, Vancouver BC to San Francisco. She was on a line voyage from Australia to Southhampton via the Pacific Coast and Panama Canal. At that time, she still had Orient Line's cornyellow hull. We were in a Court Cabin (1st class). The Court Cabins were quite nice. They were really inside cabins with a small window looking out onto a foyer that did have a big window. Not much of a view, but you could get a pretty good fix on the weather. The ship still had a Grill for 1st class passengers who tired of eating in the dining room.

 

The second time was Christmas 1970, on a 10 night Mexican Riviera cruise, RT from San Francisco. At that time, P&O was attempting to compete with Princess (before they bought the line), and were running the ship as a one class vessel. We were a 3 generational group, 17 in all. My parents were up in a 1st class cabin (my mother insisted on having a tub), the rest of us were down on F deck, scattered about in "convertible" cabins. Convertible cabins could be configured as a 4 berth cabin without facilities, or a two berth cabin with facilities! All the kids were in cabins without facilities, the parents had facilities. That worked out fairly well. Oriana was white hulled on this trip, and the Grill was but a memory.

 

I always wanted to take her running mate, Canberra, out to Australia. My wife was reluctant to make the trip - she was sure I would book a cabin without facilities, and she did not want to make a long walk in the middle of the night. We actually did have reservations at one point, but some other crisis or event in our lives required cancelling. We did visit Canberra several times in San Francisco - I do regret not having taken a trip on The Great White Whale!

[bcscot]

Ross: It is amazing just how many of those trans-atlantic companies there were then (just like airlines today I suppose). It is good that we still have at least some vestiges of that history & tradition, with companies like Cunard, HAL, Hapag etc. It is amazing how many of them have been consumed ( & at least partly assimilated) by the Carnival Corporation, but at least they still exist in some form.

Speaking of the Germans, does anyone have any experience with Hapag Lloyd?(I suppose that brings us back to the Great Lakes!)

Did the Polish company disappear or do they still exist in some form?

How many of the Scandanavian companies became or were swallowed up by RCCL or NCL?

It makes you appreciate smaller companies all the more I think; the likes of Saga, Oceania & Fred Olsen. Long life & success to them!

 

Michael: I grew up with Canberra & QE2 as household names. I had an old friend who used to love sailing on Canberra but I had no experience of her (except perhaps a plastic model!).

It was such a monumentous occasion in 1982 when QE2, Canberra & the Uganda sailed off to war. The Uganda was my wife's first experience of ships. Many British teenagers were taken on educational trips on that ship, sleeping in large dormitory accomodation in bunks or hammocks. Alas another ship that came to an unfortunate end.

P&O of course had it's own strong history & traditions. I would like to experience what little there is left, on some of their present day ships. They are on my list!

 

Donald: I have not yet sailed with Celebrity, but have heard so many good things about them that I look forward to doing so in the future. How do you think that the Millenium Class ships compare to the older ships such as the Mercury? The former do of course have those famous 'specialty restaurants'. which I would very much like to try.

I have sailed in tandem with the Infinity on a couple of occasions. Although she is supposed to be a wonderful ship & I very much want to sail on her, I just have to say, sorry, but there cannot be many uglier ships on the high seas!!! Opposite end of the spectrum from the Saga Sisters for looks I would say! She is not a ship you would choose to go on for her outward style & grace (inside is another matter I believe)!

I hope they do better with their newbuilds, although I think that they will be too big for the Celebrity style of cruising. What do you think?

 

Graham.

[marconi]

HI GRAHAM!!!

 

You will definitely love 'THE ONLY WAY TO CROSS'...it is an enchanting history by a ship lover for ship lovers.

 

I have to agree...the Italian and the French knew how to please the customers...and their styles were definitely different. I have to also say that the Germans are probably the most neglected when it comes to retelling the transatlantic stories. My experience on the BREMEN in 1971 was just fantastic. I also believe the Dutch had a great company with HAL..and just as different. Then you had the Swedes and Norwegians...but don't forget the Polish. The Polish also ran a great company and many people thought they were fantastic too. Reminds me of the story of how the Poles ran the STEPHAN BATORY with a First Class Restaurant...until around 1973 when the ruling communists found out about it and put an end to what had been a wonderful dining venue.

 

ROSS

 

I have been hoping to find a thread like this one for quite a while and I am happy to see the experiences that you have all had on the past liners.I travelled mainly out to australia on the lloyd triestino liners galileo and marconi and i have also been on the canberra.I have cruised on 16 cruises over the years and I too have not found the exemplarary service of yesteryear by the Italian liners and P&O canberra.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI GRAHAM!!!

 

When I was on the BREMEN in 1971...it was the HAPAG LLOYD. The BREMEN was transformed in 1958 from the CGT PASTEUR...which had been a nice midsized liner launched in 1939 but ended up doing troop transports for all those years until the Germans bought her and transformed her. I was extremely lucky to have sailed on her. They also had the smaller EUROPA which had been a Swedish ship. My travel agent then was an older single lady who had traveled the world after the war and she swore that the only way to cruise was onboard the HAPAG LLOYD ships: BREMEN and EUROPA. I think she was right. We never saw such great service...it was just fantastic.

 

HI MARCONI!!!

 

WELCOME to Ruby's thread...we will try and keep it going while she is cruising for the next 3 weeks.

 

I was also on the GALILEO when she had just been sold to Chandris. They eventually made her into the MERIDIAN which was the very first Celebrity Cruise ship.

 

You might want to check out my signature ( I usually leave it turned off...lol) and you can see the ships I have been on.

 

ROSS

[bcscot]

Marconi: Welcome to Admiral Ruby's Nostalria Cruise. The Admiral has currently "gone cruisin'," but we are attempting to keep her thread going without her guiding hand & sharp wit!

I spoke of my copy of John Maxtone-Graham's book, "Liners to the Sun", with it's fold out dust cover, giving a chart of mid-1980s liners. There is a group of the Chandris ships there, including 'Gallileo'; 28,000 tons, launched in 1961(same as the 'France'). A nice looking ship. The profile looks a little like the 'Discovery' (old Island Princess) & her sister.Beside her on the chart is the Chandris Victoria (old Dunnottar Castle, last of the Union Castle Line),which was only recently scrapped.( Donald, you will just have to go out & look for a first edition!!)

How was your trip on the Canberra? A famous ship indeed. Tell us please, what was she like?

 

Ross: It seems that Hapag Lloyd are still providing the very best of service. In Douglas Ward's book, 'Ocean Cruising & Cruise Ships', his top rated cruise ship for 2005 is the 28,437 ton, 1999, Hapag Lloyd,' Europa'; the only cruise ship in the world to be awarded 5+ stars by him.It seems that you can still experience that old level of service, but at a price!!!

Does anyone know what happened to the Polish line. They were still doing regular crossings in the mid-1980s because JM-G mentions the fact in the above mentioned book. I think he said that they were the last so to do, along with Cunard.

Now Ross, I wanted to mention something else, at risk of being shot down in flames by you!! I was talking of modern ship design before. I have to say that of all the modern cruise ships & companies, the 'Disney' line have to be given credit for designing ships that have a strong flavour of the 'ships of yore'. Not only were they the first to make ships with two funnels since the 1950s (one being false, just for the looks), but they put that gold scrolling on the bow, which reminds me of some of the early German liners or even earlier sailing ships. However, this is where I get onto thin ice(sailing close to the wind makes life more interesting!), I think that they also have a flavour of the sleek 'art deco' lines of the 'Normandie' about them!! Now, Mickey & his friends do nothing to complement this classic look, & Disney is not on my cruising wish list, but I feel that they should be given credit for trying! Has anyone tried Disney's ships?

 

Michael: I have noticed that you are off to do a 'river cruise' in Eastern Europe next month. Yet another thing that I would love to do. A great way to see a bit more of that part of the world & her beautiful & historic capitals. Please tell us more.

 

Donald: I think Disney ships look a lot better than Celebrity ships, but I am looking forward to sailing with Celebrity, not Disney!!!

 

Graham.