I did the math and I'm not convinced. . .

[vijoge]

I realize everyone is sick and tired of all the tipping/service charge posts and threads but. . .

 

On the good (imaginary) ship Larceny there are 2000 passengers and 1000 crew. The ship is full for every sailing for an entire year. The cruise line collects $7,300,000.00 in service charges, which is to be used to pay vacation pay to the crew. This comes to $7,300 per crew person per year.

 

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but that seems a bit much to me. I'd sure like to accumulate over $7000 in vacation pay annually.

[shoreguy]

Sounds about right - remember the crew works 7 days a week at least 12 hours a day - Thats more then 2 40 hour weeks every week. 5 months on equals 22 weeks x 2 or 44 work weeks almost a full year of normal hours. For that they get 5 weeks off with anverage of 1/2 0f 7300= $3650.

 

Less then $3650 /month in paid vacation not out of line. Would you take less?

[dosi]

I am sure that NCLA will give the crew their vacation money after deducting processing fees, delivery fees and pre paid vacation early withdrawal fees.

[Jim Gallup]

Vijoge,

Good try, but your reasoning is a bit faulty. You assume that every one of the 1000 crewmembers covers the vacation "pool". Due to the byzantine scheduling required to cover 1000 crewmembers with their work and vacation rotations, an additional 500 crew are needed to keep the manning at 1000 at all times. These people get vacation pay as well.

 

Are we sure that this fund covers only vacation pay?

 

On an International Ship most tipped crew are paid about $1 per day (plus tips) with NO vacation pay. On an American ship, most hourly crew are paid about $150 per day, PLUS vacation pay. Management gets even more. Do the math on that number for 1000 average crew for 365 days.

By the way, Hawaii State Law requires NCLAmerica to furnish year round HMO Medical and Dental Coverage for all their 1500 employees. What do you think that costs?

 

No matter how you add it up, NCL comes out on the short end of the stick. Last time I looked NCLAmerica was not listed as a non-profit company. If they want to stay in business, somebody has to pay for the high cost of employing American workers. Who do you think that "somebody" is going to be?

We can support employing Americans or we can support exporting those jobs overseas. Vote with your pocketbook.

[vijoge]

Well, yeah. I only get 3 weeks vacation, and I don't get anywhere near $3600 for it. Of course, I don't work on a cruise ship-I'm a nurse. My husband and I together don't get $3600 in annual vacation pay.

[seahorse]

Vijoge,

Good try, but your reasoning is a bit faulty. You assume that every one of the 1000 crewmembers covers the vacation "pool". Due to the byzantine scheduling required to cover 1000 crewmembers with their work and vacation rotations, an additional 500 crew are needed to keep the manning at 1000 at all times. These people get vacation pay as well.

 

Are we sure that this fund covers only vacation pay?

 

On an International Ship most tipped crew are paid about $1 per day (plus tips) with NO vacation pay. On an American ship, most hourly crew are paid about $150 per day, PLUS vacation pay. Management gets even more. Do the math on that number for 1000 average crew for 365 days.

By the way, Hawaii State Law requires NCLAmerica to furnish year round HMO Medical and Dental Coverage for all their 1500 employees. What do you think that costs?

 

No matter how you add it up, NCL comes out on the short end of the stick. Last time I looked NCLAmerica was not listed as a non-profit company. If they want to stay in business, somebody has to pay for the high cost of employing American workers. Who do you think that "somebody" is going to be?

We can support employing Americans or we can support exporting those jobs overseas. Vote with your pocketbook.[/QUO

 

One of the best statements that I have heard so far. Right on:D

 

Let us put this to rest?

[Jeconk]

Jim: Then what is the service fee supposed to cover? The letter that all of us on the POA got from NCL said that the fee was to cover crew vacations.

 

I think we have to look at it this way: right now, only the Aloha operates under this system. The rest of the fleet doesn't change to this until next year. The Aloha only carries a normal crew of 850 and not 1000. (right now, the Aloha is down to 700 according to NCL themselves)

 

Another thing to consider is a post a few weeks ago by I believe Shoreguy or POACrewMOm. It seems that when a crew member on the POA goes on vacation, their vacation pay is only based on 60 hours a week and not what their regular weeks entail.

 

Now you just took the amount paid to the crew to an even higher amount. But if you believe that the entire amount that NCL is collecting from this service charge is going to the "Crew Vacaction Fund," you ought apply for a job at NCL corporate!

[shoreguy]

I think that we the members of CC should demand the right to audit NCLs books to determine how every dollar we pay is spent. We shoud do this with GM, the cable company and every resturant we eat in :rolleyes:

 

The math is simple add the price of the cruise + tips or service fee + air + $120 for specialty resturants to be safe and look at the total. Worth it book the cruise. Not worth it find another cruise or vacation. How NCL spends that money I could care less.

 

Now the level of service and quality of food all go into what a cruise is worth. It is valuable to share the good the bad and the ugly so others can make that decision.

 

Does anyone question the 2X fares of Crystal to make sure we understand where ever extra dollar is going.

[johnql]

Does anyone question the 2X fares of Crystal to make sure we understand where ever extra dollar is going.

As usual, well said.

[kkorman]

I think that we the members of CC should demand the right to audit NCLs books to determine how every dollar we pay is spent. We shoud do this with GM, the cable company and every resturant we eat in :rolleyes:

 

The math is simple add the price of the cruise + tips or service fee + air + $120 for specialty resturants to be safe and look at the total. Worth it book the cruise. Not worth it find another cruise or vacation. How NCL spends that money I could care less.

 

Now the level of service and quality of food all go into what a cruise is worth. It is valuable to share the good the bad and the ugly so others can make that decision.

 

Does anyone question the 2X fares of Crystal to make sure we understand where ever extra dollar is going.

 

This is the only post on the thread that is worth reading.

Why are you trying to figure this out anyway. It is NO different than paying you $10/day for tips. What's the big deal. If you do not like it, cruise a different line. Gaurenteed, You will not get the itinerary that NCL offeres for Hawaii.

 

Do you worry so much where your tax dollars go?

[cruise pup]

From now on I will include a small ledger in the tip envelope so that I can get an accounting of how my tip money is spent. Better yet, I should have those who will be tipped submit a budget so I can see whether I approve of how the money will be spent before I fork it over.

 

Incidentally I recently watched a rerun of Third Rock from the Sun where Dick placed a stack of money on the table at a restaurant and told the waitress that it was her potential tip. For every time she did something right he would add to the pile. For every time she did something wrong he would subtract from it. It was a riot.

 

I think the whole problem is that words like tip and gratuity no longer apply. It's become like what is in Europe and it's simply called "service". It doesn't imply good or bad service, just service and is automatically included on your bill. In most situations it is still left to our discretion over here. We are merely adding on for service because it is not considered part of the pricetage. Think of all those mail order and online and home shopping services that add a ridiculous fee called "handling". You don't pay that in a store. Okay, it's late and I'm out of here. Just got a little overtired, I guess. Goodnight!

[basketballmom]

Remember, the NCLA ships are American flagged and have to pay federal taxes (and possibly state taxes too). I still get taxed on my vacation pay. I'm sure the NCLA staff will have their vacation pay taxed too. And we know how much the government takes. The more you make, the more they take!

[kalamari]

What vacation pay do all the crew get?

[kkorman]

What vacation pay do all the crew get?

 

Part of the deal with NCLA is that the time off 1 month out of 6 is paid time off.

[TWA4Ever]

Actually, this is really easy. Imagine yourself and your DW (or DH) on a land vacation (a nice one). Your air has cost $500-600 each. Your hotel is costing (maybe) $150-185/night (maybe more).

 

You go out to breakfast, lunch, and dinner for seven days. Two or three times you go to a fancy restaurant; the rest of the time you go to a diner or Denny's or whatever.

 

Unless you have just eaten 21 meals in Wendys (or the same ilk), you have just left 21 tips. Even a Denny's Grand Slam, with coffee and OJ, is going to cost about $7.00. Now multiply that by 2. The tips is $2.00 (at 15%) and $3.00 (at 20%). I don't know about the rest of you, but I do understand that everyone has to eat, and sometimes part of a living wage is what we lay out after a good meal, with good service - so I usually tip 20% or more.

 

I'm using some really low figures here, so I'm postulating that you'll spend $504.00 for 42 meals (21 meals X 2 people). That does not include any entertainment for you both, no drinks are included that have to be tipped separately, no nothing. At 20% that's $101

 

So, is $140 for two people for seven days unreasonable? Not in the least. It is probably a lot less than I would tip, anyway. (A nice dinner at Fleming's Steak House, or Morton's, or The Palm, or Ruth Chris would set you back anywhere from $20 to perhaps $40 in tips - and that's just one meal.)

 

I agree that the use of the phrase "resort fee" is most questionable. However, since this piddling $10/day/person appears to be going into a pool for the entire crew, I do not see the problem.

 

(Btw, none of the above figures makes any sense if someone decides to reply with an all-inclusive in the Carribean. But then why take a cruise in the first place?)

[Markandrews]

 

No matter how you add it up, NCL comes out on the short end of the stick. Last time I looked NCLAmerica was not listed as a non-profit company. If they want to stay in business, somebody has to pay for the high cost of employing American workers. Who do you think that "somebody" is going to be?

 

 

According to Mr. Deering, (Hotel manager on PoAl) NCL does not ever intend to make money on the Shipboard portion of a passengers vacation.

 

He told me they intend to make there money on Shore excursions, etc.

 

Mr Deering went on to say that NCL was planning on investing in Hotel properties and other sources similar to what Disney has done in Orlando. The ship will be the "loss leader" so to speak.

 

He said NCL is in Hawaii for the long run and I believe him.

[shoreguy]

 

 

According to Mr. Deering, (Hotel manager on PoAl) NCL does not ever intend to make money on the Shipboard portion of a passengers vacation.

 

He told me they intend to make there money on Shore excursions, etc.

 

.

 

It seems that must be the case. I got an offer yesterday for 9 nights, Cruise outside cabin, port chages, transfers, HOTEL and AIR for $1399. Dates in Jan-May

[jkrislc]

Everyone is also assuming that the service charge covers all of the ship's crew. I would assume that some of the nonservice crew are excluded from the service charge pool. While I don't mind paying $10 a day for tips, I am quite dissatisfied the NCLA expects its customers to pay their employees' vacation. This is the normal cost of doing business and should be included in the cruise fare. The service charge should be given to the service staff as a form of a tip.

[kalamari]

Part of the deal with NCLA is that the time off 1 month

 

surely you are not referring to internationals.

[kalamari]

I just realized you were referring to NCLA..sorry! M.