Evangelical University Group on Zuiderdam -

[boards]

Have any of you thought that just maybe they sitting reading this thread and since there have been not booked yet, are deciding whether or not they want to cruise with any of you? You haven't heard one single comment that even suggests that they will any of the things your accusing them of. They are looking to have a good time enjoying a Hal cruise and from the sound of this thread, this cruise isn't for them.

[Copper10-8]

But idiot bashing, on the other hand, can be a fun sport. :D

Speaking of idiots:

A true story out of San Francisco: A man, wanting to rob a downtown Bank of America, walked into the branch and wrote "this iz a stikkup. Put all your muny in this bag." While standing in line, waiting to give his note to the teller, he began to worry that someone had seen him write the note and might call the police before he reached the teller window. So he left the Bank of America and crossed the street to Wells Fargo.

After waiting a few minutes in line, he handed his note to the Wells Fargo teller. She read it and, surmising from his spelling errors that he wasn't the brightest light in the harbor, told him that she could not accept his stickup note because it was written on a Bank of America deposit slip and that he would either have to fill out a Wells Fargo deposit slip or go back to Bank of America.

Looking somewhat defeated, the man said "OK" and left. He was arrested a few minutes later, as he was waiting in line back at Bank of America.

Don't bother with this guy's sign. He probably couldn't read it anyway.

 

[RevNeal]

Have any of you thought that just maybe they sitting reading this thread and since there have been not booked yet, are deciding whether or not they want to cruise with any of you? You haven't heard one single comment that even suggests that they will any of the things your accusing them of. They are looking to have a good time enjoying a Hal cruise and from the sound of this thread, this cruise isn't for them.

 

I read what you're saying, boards, and I think I understand what you're trying to get at. Sadly, too many people have personal experience with such opposition and oppression focused at them on land and in real life; I cannot blame them if they don't want to put up with even the possibility of such judgementalism while on a cruise.

 

Have you ever heard of Fred Phelps? Ever seen members of his "church" picketing the funeral of someone who died of AIDS? Ever visit his website: (http://www.godhatesfags.com) ?? Now ... I will grant you ... BIOLA graduates are not, generally speaking, followers of Phelps or his hate-spewing ilk; however, BIOLA's position on the subject of Homosexuality is not far remove from Phelps', even if their approach is almost certainly much softer.

 

It may be true that none of these BIOLA graduates will give anyone trouble. But that's a risk that some may not want to take.

[bankerbabe]

But idiot bashing, on the other hand, can be a fun sport. :D

 

Amen, brother preach it :D

[hammybee]

If a religious group charters a ship of course everything will be done as they wish- bars and casino closed, etc. But there is no way I will believe that if a large group just books a number of rooms as a group that the cruiseline will close the bars or casinos for all pax. They would have a mutiny on their hands plus all that lost revenur.Just wouldn't happen. It would have to be a full ship charter where HAL would be compensated for loss of normal bar/casino revenues.

 

Why assume a religious group would want the bars/casinos closed if they chartered?

[bankerbabe]

Why assume a religious group would want the bars/casinos closed if they chartered?

 

My dad (who I love very much but don't always agree with) is a member of an Evangelical church, and they believe that drinking is a sin. I don't know if that is a church-wide belief or just a local belief, though.

 

I was 30 before I worked up the nerve to have a class of wine in front of him

[hammybee]

I took the advice and called Inspiration Cruises to inquire how many people had made reservations for Biola cruise. The lady on the phone said they were holding space for 200-300 but no one had made reservations yet.

 

Is this unusual since it is 6 months away?

 

This is a critical point. A cabin is a commodity. The group has an option to book cabins which can be done, at a premium, through Inspiration. Maybe they will sell sufficient cabins to make this worthwhile and maybe they won't. Maybe it will be 14 cabins. No one knows, including the cruise line, in this case, HAL. Thisis all speculatio at this point.

 

I wonder how many of these group options fail to exercise and then the entire thing goes poof.

 

I wonder how many of these group cancel their plans when they cannot obtain a minimum number for it to make financial sense.

 

I wonder who the disgruntled group wanna-be cruisers gets mat at, when this happens.

[peaches from georgia]

Why assume a religious group would want the bars/casinos closed if they chartered?

Any group chartering a ship can have things as they wish. Based on reports from various ships the majority of evangelical and fundamentalist religious groups do have the bars and casinos closed, which would be expected knowing the beliefs of these groups. More liberal denominations of course might not.

[twinkletoes4445]

Have you ever heard of Fred Phelps? Ever seen members of his "church" picketing the funeral of someone who died of AIDS? Ever visit his website: (http://www.godhatesfags.com) ?? Now ... I will grant you ... BIOLA graduates are not, generally speaking, followers of Phelps or his hate-spewing ilk; however, BIOLA's position on the subject of Homosexuality is not far remove from Phelps', even if their approach is almost certainly much softer.

 

It may be true that none of these BIOLA graduates will give anyone trouble. But that's a risk that some may not want to take.

 

Ohhhh...Fred Phelps. That man is something. We live not too far from where he is located, and we see them ALL the time. It's so sad to see young people so brainwashed. And from what I understand, the church is comprised of mostly family members. They are a hateful lot.

 

And if BIOLA's position is anything like Phelps and his family...I'd not want to be near them. :(

[RevNeal]

Why assume a religious group would want the bars/casinos closed if they chartered?

 

Because they usually do ... and they pay for it. At least, the Gaither Cruises do. This year they've got the Amsterdam for Alaska, August 24-31, and they charge extra for that too.

 

A year ago I actually received an inquiry about my willingness to serve as a chaplain on one of their cruises ... but I couldn't because it conflicted with my schedule. Normally HAL don't contract a Protestant Chaplain for the 7-day sailing's, but given the nature of this kind of cruise, and at the request of the charter, they were going to do so. I know they got somebody, I just don't know who.

 

I'm not opposed to evangelicals, and can usually get along well with them on most issues. But, when they become either political or overtly judgmental I usually have problems. Usually it's the hard line Fundamentalists, and not the Evangelicals, who can become noxious.

[hammybee]

My dad (who I love very much but don't always agree with) is a member of an Evangelical church, and they believe that drinking is a sin. I don't know if that is a church-wide belief or just a local belief, though.

 

I was 30 before I worked up the nerve to have a class of wine in front of him

 

I was 18, I think, before I got the nerve to try a cheeseburger and I am not Jewish. But I had a grandmother who kept house for a Jewish family and somehow we kept Kosher at home.

 

So I am thinking that some people prefer there to be no open bars or gaming and some people keep Kosher, regardless of religion. :)

[Ephraim]

Hmmm, I'm wondering which part of me would be more upset... the Jewish part of me or the Gay part of me. I think it's the Jewish one. I don't like proselytes. I would want to know how many are on the ship and what seating they have to figure out if this would interfere with my cruise or not.

 

I would also ask the policy of the cruise line and if security would intervene if they attempted anything.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

I took the advice and called Inspiration Cruises to inquire how many people had made reservations for Biola cruise. The lady on the phone said they were holding space for 200-300 but no one had made reservations yet.

 

Is this unusual since it is 6 months away?

 

Hmmm, I'm wondering which part of me would be more upset... the Jewish part of me or the Gay part of me. I think it's the Jewish one. I don't like proselytes. I would want to know how many are on the ship and what seating they have to figure out if this would interfere with my cruise or not.

 

I would also ask the policy of the cruise line and if security would intervene if they attempted anything.

 

 

Per Cruisebax's post, not one booking for this particular group has yet been made, so that makes zero on the ship so far. So most likely they won't interfere with anyone's cruise.

[Ephraim]

I'm perverted. I give these out all the time. Waitresses love them; so do nurses and bank tellers.

 

http://www.goohf.com/

 

You might then like http://www.jesusdressup.com/

[Ephraim]

Per Cruisebax's post, not one booking for this particular group has yet been made, so that makes zero on the ship so far. So most likely they won't interfere with anyone's cruise.

 

I saw that, but six months is a LONG time. I, personally, would be rebooking.

 

From my perspective, I avoid certain stores around Christmas time just because I don't want to be anywhere near one particular group that proselytes to people in need instead of providing them with the help they really need.

[Candy]

Jeez.... We're booked on this cruise, too. We were on the Caribbean Princess last year with a pushy group who left their literature everywhere... even in the bathrooms. I'll have to have Lori keep on top of this situation. It's the first opportunity for us to cruise Zuidy again once she comes home from Alaska, and I'd have to wait 'til March for another vacation window.

 

Candy the ZuiderPrincess and Sir James (DoubleDeuce)

[tomc]

Ephraim --

 

Not my style, but thanks for the reference.

 

Re: the bars being closed. Just say "no." I don't drink and, when it comes to people being in the slightest bit intoxicated, I do not approve of it. But I have two feet that usually work well enough to propel me to another location so my personal dislikes do not collide with someone else's good times. Problem solved.

 

I thoroughly believe my religion is the One True and I bet you believe yours is, also. I think that's great; there is room for many One True religions, as long as they lead us to growth and love. I'm not going to convince you of mine, any more than I want you to convince me of your One True political party.

 

It's a cruise, not a boxing ring.

[artistswriter]

I don't personally know any in the group you are referring to, but I do know of the institution, and they are a pretty cool group. I doubt anyone would purposely make you feel uncomfortable. They are intellectually solid and not judgemental.

[ministocking]

Has the irony of this thread been lost on everyone? The OP's worry is about the possibility of gay bashing or judging. Seems to be a lot of bashing and judging going on.

 

Please don't stereotype Christians. If we would all take the time to get to know each other as human beings (without making up our minds ahead of time) the world would be a much better place.

 

You might sneer at the "golden rule" but it really makes a lot of sense.

 

Happy Easter week.

 

Holly

[RevNeal]

I don't personally know any in the group you are referring to, but I do know of the institution, and they are a pretty cool group. I doubt anyone would purposely make you feel uncomfortable. They are intellectually solid and not judgemental.

 

Thank you for your input ... it is helpful.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Has the irony of this thread been lost on everyone? The OP's worry is about the possibility of gay bashing or judging. Seems to be a lot of bashing and judging going on.

 

Please don't stereotype Christians. If we would all take the time to get to know each other as human beings (without making up our minds ahead of time) the world would be a much better place.

 

You might sneer at the "golden rule" but it really makes a lot of sense.

 

Happy Easter week.

 

Holly

 

The irony of many threads on this forum is seldom lost on me. It's why I keep coming back for more:rolleyes: :eek: . The Cruise Critic universe is one of the funniest, oddest, quirkiest, most anxiety-ridden, panic-stricken, rumor-mongering, navel-gazing, hair-splitting, hilarious, amazing, and yes, ironic, universes I know. In the end, what we all seem to want is acceptance, understanding, and love. Only problem is, we are frequently unwilling to give it out in order to experience it. Me included:eek:

 

As one of my favorite people here says "There are always more opinions and personalities here than posters".

 

Happy Holy Week and Easter to you, too, Holly. And everyone, enjoy your cruises, on Holland America or any line......Bon Voyage!

 

Karin

[RevNeal]

Has the irony of this thread been lost on everyone? The OP's worry is about the possibility of gay bashing or judging. Seems to be a lot of bashing and judging going on.

 

Please don't stereotype Christians. If we would all take the time to get to know each other as human beings (without making up our minds ahead of time) the world would be a much better place.

 

You might sneer at the "golden rule" but it really makes a lot of sense.

 

Holly, I thank you for your wise words. And, I agree that there is a danger in stereotyping Christians. It happens frequently; as a Christian and a pastor I am well aware of this. Sometimes, however, my "brethren" and "sistren" earn their stereotype through their reprehensible words and actions. :(

[Copper10-8]

The irony of many threads on this forum is seldom lost on me. It's why I keep coming back for more:rolleyes: :eek: . The Cruise Critic universe is one of the funniest, oddest, quirkiest, most anxiety-ridden, panic-stricken, rumor-mongering, navel-gazing, hair-splitting, hilarious, amazing, and yes, ironic, universes I know.

 

Happy Holy Week and Easter to you, too, Holly. And everyone, enjoy your cruises, on Holland America or any line......Bon Voyage!

 

Karin

 

Navel-gazing?? :eek: Speak for yourself!

As one of my favorite people here says "There are always more opinions and personalities here than posters".

 

Don't forget this one: "Opinion are like "rear-ends" Everybody has one"

Happy Easter week, Karin (Vrolijk Pasen!)

One a serious note. If I were in the O.P.'s position, I would keep my reservation, go out and board Zuiderdam (what's with this "Zuidy" stuff?) with my partner, enyoy ourselves, and have a great time. If anybody, including the Evangelical University group, has a problem with that and/or my lifestyle, I would tell them to kiss my Dutch-born a$$

[Ephraim]

I thoroughly believe my religion is the One True and I bet you believe yours is, also. I think that's great; there is room for many One True religions, as long as they lead us to growth and love. I'm not going to convince you of mine, any more than I want you to convince me of your One True political party.

 

It's a cruise, not a boxing ring.

 

I have absolutely total respect for people's personal religious choice. And I expect the same. That's exactly my point. (Judaism in a non-proselyting religion, I can't try to convince you of mine. Just being a moral person is all that is required of anyone who isn't Jewish, nothing more.)

 

As far as political choice, I have total respect of other people's political beliefs, no matter how wrong they are. :p Unlike many people, I can discuss it coolly and calmly and not take it personally. Maybe that's because I have a poli. sci. degree and I can argue both points of view. But I realize that most people can't and take it much too personally, so it's a subject to be avoided.

 

Holly, I thank you for your wise words. And, I agree that there is a danger in stereotyping Christians. It happens frequently; as a Christian and a pastor I am well aware of this. Sometimes, however, my "brethren" and "sistren" earn their stereotype through their reprehensible words and actions. :(

 

My reaction was to the word evangelical. A word that for me is synonymous with proselyting. I have absolutely no problem with anyone holding their own beliefs. I do have a problem with someone degrading my own personal beliefs for theirs.

 

If I offended anyone, I assure you, it was entirely unintentional. Maybe I misunderstood. Being both Jewish and Gay, I would avoid a cruise with a judgemental and proselyting group. It would drive me absolutely crazy. It's the same reason I avoid those people doing their Christmas collections, they are proselytes who degrade Gays. It's not about Christmas for me, it's about the religion of those particular people and how they proselyte. One specific group and specific religion (or sub group if you prefer). I don't want to ruin their vacation and I would hope they wouldn't want to ruin mine, either. That's part of respect for me.

[hammybee]

All of a sudden, I have a tremendous urge to throw-up. Instead, I think I'll race No-No Nannette to the topless, oh I mean, upper deck and flash those down below. Anyone care to join me for one last time?