to the Brits ...please help me understand

[happyscot]

The price differences, between the EU and the US, have to do with EU rules, that dont allow companies to have differential pricing. Which is why Princess wont sell a US cruise price in the UK, and vice-versa.

It can be got around, (My SIL is stationed in Italy, last year they booked a cruise, there, because it was cheaper. This year, I just got her docs, cuz they booked a cruise HERE, because it was cheaper). So, it isnt ALWAYS cheaper here.

The other thing is, I think a previous poster might be underestimating how much regulations in the EU add to the price. Not necessarily a bad thing, as they do come with real consumer protections we dont have here, and routine advertising here, would be considered "fraud" or "deception" there.

As we Americans know, the price in the ad is seldom the real,total price. That is much less true in the EU.

 

 

Sorry, but this isn't true. There is no EU regulation that "adds to the price". Furthermore, it is an enormous myth that the EU has added to regulation - European markets have become deregulated out of all recognition in the last 30 years. Most of the arguments between the EU and the USA centre around US restrictive controls designed to prevent EU imports threatening protected US domestic markets - eg, steel. Fair enough, as long as it works both ways!! Travel is exempt from VAT, and presumably costs associated with health and safety etc are no higher than in the slightly paranoid US. What are these "regulations" that increase prices by 20 or 30%? I think we might have noticed them and voted against them - as the first parliamentary democracy, we've got pretty good at spotting these things over the years.

 

It also is not true that all EU countries/companies must charge the same - prices are wildly different across the continent, partly because of very different tax regimes, but also for all the same reasons as they are different within any other continent, including America. Our capitalist economies could not function otherwise. What you can't do is prevent access to cheaper markets - ie if cigars are cheaper in Belgium, the UK government can't stop me sending to Belgium for them. This forces UK companies to reconsider their prices, with the result that price inflation in Europe is at all-time low levels, thanks to competition.

 

Princess do however prevent access to cheaper markets, by intimidating US TA's into not selling direct to UK residents. In the UK, this would get you a prison sentence. In the US, this is regarded as fair business practise.

 

I have no problem with this. I simply ask that the knock-on effect this has on the perception of the tipping tax held by Brits be understood as a result. You pay once, we pay 3 times. That makes us "shamlessly ripped off", not cheapskates.

 

Thanks for the debate though.

 

:)

[happyscot]

Though historic scholars may never truly establish the very first use of the word and practice of tipping, there is little doubt that England was the first country to popularize the convention, which came about as a byproduct of its highly divided class system.

Within English society from the 16th to late 19th century, wealthy nobles and house lords would often tip their subordinates with additional money or food after completing various tasks for them ;)

 

So, we colonials may have embraced it, but we certainly didnt create it.

 

 

Well Republicans used to be Democrats, and vice versa. You used to ban drinking. We used to send small boys up chimneys. Times change. For some decades, the US pays low wages and makes it up in charity donations (tips). We pay higher wages, and generally don't see the need for charity, which we regard, in THESE circumstances, as deeply demeaning. Harking back to the position in the 1800's doesn't I think provide an answer.

[latitude 22]

Well, Happyscot time to load up I'm on my way to see you! :D

My dear UK residents.. you have been quite busy ....Category K and L have disappeared and are waitlist only! :eek:

Thankfully, before that happened I held space at the $1699.00 USD price and when/if the price drops it will be adjusted!

We've booked our air with Virgin Atlantic on the nonstop from SFO!

Now how does one back for this cruise and then heading down south to Italy where it's hotter than h*ll in July! Yikes.... :confused:

I suppose I shall head over to the roll call, but before that, does anyone have any port suggestions that I shouldn't miss!

MV21 thanks for the offer to help!

I really am looking forward to my visit to the UK! :)

K.

[daveco58]

Sorry, but this isn't true. There is no EU regulation that "adds to the price". Furthermore, it is an enormous myth that the EU has added to regulation - European markets have become deregulated out of all recognition in the last 30 years. Most of the arguments between the EU and the USA centre around US restrictive controls designed to prevent EU imports threatening protected US domestic markets - eg, steel. Fair enough, as long as it works both ways!! Travel is exempt from VAT, and presumably costs associated with health and safety etc are no higher than in the slightly paranoid US. What are these "regulations" that increase prices by 20 or 30%? I think we might have noticed them and voted against them - as the first parliamentary democracy, we've got pretty good at spotting these things over the years.

 

It also is not true that all EU countries/companies must charge the same - prices are wildly different across the continent, partly because of very different tax regimes, but also for all the same reasons as they are different within any other continent, including America. Our capitalist economies could not function otherwise. What you can't do is prevent access to cheaper markets - ie if cigars are cheaper in Belgium, the UK government can't stop me sending to Belgium for them. This forces UK companies to reconsider their prices, with the result that price inflation in Europe is at all-time low levels, thanks to competition.

 

Princess do however prevent access to cheaper markets, by intimidating US TA's into not selling direct to UK residents. In the UK, this would get you a prison sentence. In the US, this is regarded as fair business practise.

 

I have no problem with this. I simply ask that the knock-on effect this has on the perception of the tipping tax held by Brits be understood as a result. You pay once, we pay 3 times. That makes us "shamlessly ripped off", not cheapskates.

 

Thanks for the debate though.

 

:)

 

If a US company deliberately undercut a European companies (or divisions, in the case of Princess), prices, the EU would consider it predatory,and do what they are doing to Microsoft. Sue them. So, Princess US doesnt market in Europe. Ditto for several other lines that have European divisions.

And my point as far as regulation is that if a EU company advertises a price of, say, 500 Euros, you will most likely get on that ship for 500 Euros. period.

Here in the states, if you see an advertisement for, say, 559 dollars (I am using an example of my current NCLA cruise) you will likely pay around 800 dollars, by the time they add taxes, port charges, Non-commisionable fees, security charges, etc, etc, etc. None of which is required to be stated in the advertisement.

so that 10-20% surcharge you refer too, is in large part, merely truth in advertising - something the EU takes rather more seriously than the United States. Again, not a problem. Just makes it a little tougher to decided where the REAL bargain is. Like I said, my SIL went one way last year, and the other way this year, each time to get the best deal.

[UK Cruiser]

MV21 - I'm surprised the Personaliser shows your US address. With our bookings it is marked as a mailing address and our UK address has shown on the Personaliser all the time. (Our US mailing address is that of our US TA).

 

Latitude - I hope you enjoy your visit to our Kingdom and your onward trip to Italy. Good luck with the packing. It won't be as hot here as in Italy but at that time of the year, just make sure you have a lightweight jacket / raincoat just in case the weather is a little inclement. We are expecting a good summer and the weather here at the moment is very balmy - no jacket required and it's only April!!

[dutrie]

Not only does Princess (and most other lines, I assume) charge different prices depending on the country, but the price also varies by State in the US.

 

I book thru a web based cruise agency that always asks for the state I live in when booking a cruise. I questioned an agent why they do this and she told me that Princess has different rates for different states.

 

This makes sense. During the winter, there is greater demand from northern states and Canada, so a higher rate is charged than say from Florida.

 

David

[Globaliser]

If a US company deliberately undercut a European companies (or divisions, in the case of Princess), prices, the EU would consider it predatory,and do what they are doing to Microsoft. Sue them.

That is not what the Microsoft litigation is about. Microsoft has a worldwide near-monopoly on operating systems for mainstream individual-use computers. Microsoft flagrantly abuses that monopoly position by bundling other non-monopoly products with the monopoly product in such a way that many competing software houses simply do not stand a chance against the Microsoft product, irrespective of the relative merits of the two products. And the current high profile of the litigation is because Microsoft chooses flagrantly to ignore orders of the court, presumably on the basis that it's such an entrenched monopoly provider that it can behave like the biggest baddest bully of all time. Which is basically what it is, the US DoJ having been too weak and wimpish to take action against Microsoft at a time when such action could have had a real effect on keeping the company under control. And now it's just a complete monster.

 

The EU does have separate anti-dumping laws that come into play when foreign companies sell things too cheaply in the EU, and competing unfairly in this different sense. But to trigger an anti-dumping case, the imports have to be at an uneconomic and unfeasibly low price. I don't believe that the EU will penalise a foreign competitor simply because it's cheaper than the domestic company. There has to be an element of unfairness in the foreign competitor's behaviour.

[latitude 22]

How on earth did my thread morph into THIS!

[AZbeachboy]

Princess almost waitlist all their dinning. I was one of the first to book on my current for June. Five years ago when personal choice dinning started they waitlisted most to get them to try it. We prefer traditional dinning and getting to know others.

 

I get around that because of a medical problem I need to eat at regual times and late dinning is too late on most cruises. So under the American's with disabilities act (ADA) they give me my dinning choice.

 

I appreciate the calmness of this debate. This question has gotten side tracked and angry in the past. This way is much more fun.

 

Thanks HappyScott

[Chivalrygirl]

One funny thing about us Europeans: It's generally illegal for there to be selective marketing policies across the EU.

 

By golly MIss Molly, am I reading this correctly, and Englishman calling himself a European. OMG, whats next :confused:

Wait till I tell the "Old Boy" that I dragged kickiing and screaming out of the UK almost 40 years ago, that he has become an European. I am telling you now he will fit, and probably have a heart attach as well :eek:

 

Surely this has got to be worse than a Scotsman calling himself, English? NEVER.

[Chivalrygirl]

Would someone in the US like to check out the price of this cruise to make a comparison for prices.

 

Grand Princess, Canada/New England, sailing out of NY on the 18th Sept.

AC category mini-suite on Dolphin.

 

I had a feeling when I booked this that the prices in the US were more than I was being quoted down-under

[AZbeachboy]

Would someone in the US like to check out the price of this cruise to make a comparison for prices.

 

Grand Princess, Canada/New England, sailing out of NY on the 18th Sept.

AC category mini-suite on Dolphin.

 

I had a feeling when I booked this that the prices in the US were more than I was being quoted down-under

 

$3075 for AC.

[Chivalrygirl]

$3075 for AC.

 

 

We are paying $NZ3318. On today's buy exchange rate that is $US2453.33. When I booked this fare, the NZD was really sick and down around buy rate of about .68. The NZD is much stronger in the last few weeks at we are buying at a rate of about .7394.

 

Interesting, I got someone to grabe the price for me up there when we were booking and it looked very expensive. Maybe Princess are trying to encourage more of us to sail out of US ports. Of course I can add an aire fare of person of about $NZ2600 to the cruise fare :D

[cactusrose]

How on earth did my thread morph into THIS!

 

Evidently no one read the sticky re Hijacking Threads:eek:

[AZbeachboy]

I don't know that anyone has hikjacked this thread. It started out taking about prices in different countries and dwe are still talking about it. There have been a few questions about booking through countries or prices that change because of capacity, but only a few have gotten off the topic of exchange rates and reason why prices seem different.

[Chivalrygirl]

Not only does Princess (and most other lines, I assume) charge different prices depending on the country, but the price also varies by State in the US.

 

I book thru a web based cruise agency that always asks for the state I live in when booking a cruise. I questioned an agent why they do this and she told me that Princess has different rates for different states.

 

This makes sense. During the winter, there is greater demand from northern states and Canada, so a higher rate is charged than say from Florida.

 

David

 

No, not true, Princess is the only cruise line that quotes in local currency. All others go through agents and are quoted in USD.

[happyscot]

By golly MIss Molly, am I reading this correctly, and Englishman calling himself a European. OMG, whats next :confused:

Wait till I tell the "Old Boy" that I dragged kickiing and screaming out of the UK almost 40 years ago, that he has become an European. I am telling you now he will fit, and probably have a heart attach as well :eek:

 

Surely this has got to be worse than a Scotsman calling himself, English? NEVER.

 

 

The comparison can never be tested because no Scotsman would ever label himself as English. Not that most find it THAT offensive:D , it's just weird and inaccurate - like you calling yourself Mexican. It's only outside Scotland that the terms somehow become interchangeable.

 

Brits are European by dint of geography. Very reluctantly, we have agreed to become European in economic terms. What we are resisting is becoming European in cultural and constitutional terms, becomes of some anachronistic notions of anglo-saxon differences (ie superiority). That's why we still keep turning back to the US to lead us in foreign policy, cultural and other matters, because it makes us feel like a big world player, and that we still matter. When I was at school, the world map on the wall was literally about 50% red - those were our bits - it's not that long ago, and it'll take us another 50 years to settle down to being another Belgium or New Zealand, make some money and babies, and some pretending to be the USA's best buddy.

 

In Scotland, as a wee semi-autonomous part of Britland, not always comfortable with Britland's near-total domination by the English, we have in recent years began to look towards Europe as an alternative framework in which a very wee country can peacably get on with things. Indeed, our Nationalist party has an outside chance of forming our next government on this platform, and indeed if it does, dear cousins, you'll have a few nuclear bombs and reconnaisasance bases to move elsewhere. No biggy though.

 

Where do I stand? Pro-independence, pro-Europe, in favour of cordial relations with USA - no bombs please, no tongue in your anal cavity, just a wee pal that we'll help out when we can, and vice-versa I'm sure. And we'll sell you an awful, awful lot of tartan rubbish and assure you we ALL wear it ALL the time!!!

 

Big loves

 

:D

[Sekhmet]

Though historic scholars may never truly establish the very first use of the word and practice of tipping, there is little doubt that England was the first country to popularize the convention, which came about as a byproduct of its highly divided class system.

Within English society from the 16th to late 19th century, wealthy nobles and house lords would often tip their subordinates with additional money or food after completing various tasks for them ;)

 

So, we colonials may have embraced it, but we certainly didnt create it.

 

One of the favourite theories is that it was a means of helping guarantee that a message would be delivered, before the days of a postal service, and stood for To Insure Prompt Service.

[latitude 22]

WOO HOO!

The upgrade fairy came!

My L was upgraded to a JJ,

it's still an inside but it's in an excellent location!

[happyscot]

WOO HOO!

 

The upgrade fairy came!

 

My L was upgraded to a JJ,

 

it's still an inside but it's in an excellent location!

 

 

 

Huzzah!! Oh sorry, er, Hoo Woo! Yaye!! errr...Short six! Yeh!!! You're the...er...bloke!!! My...eeerrrr....old chap!! Right...errr...off!!!

 

Well done.

 

Er so what is an excellent location for an inside anyway?

 

And how the bloody hell am I going to pelt you with haggis if you haven't got a balcony???

[latitude 22]

HappyScot

Excellent location is located on Baja without any lounges above or below me!!!

I will call Princess to see about a balcony upgrade, I'm sure once I explain your concerns they will make every effort possible! :D

 

Everyone familiar with this port....

 

What do you think in Holyhead...

Caernarfon or Beaumaris castle tour?

Thanks!

Karen

[Morgans]

This cruise is on offer with a Scottish Cruise agency for £539 - had an email yesterday.

 

 

Marge M

[Chivalrygirl]

The comparison can never be tested because no Scotsman would ever label himself as English. Not that most find it THAT offensive:D , it's just weird and inaccurate - like you calling yourself Mexican. It's only outside Scotland that the terms somehow become interchangeable.

 

Brits are European by dint of geography. Very reluctantly, we have agreed to become European in economic terms. What we are resisting is becoming European in cultural and constitutional terms, becomes of some anachronistic notions of anglo-saxon differences (ie superiority). That's why we still keep turning back to the US to lead us in foreign policy, cultural and other matters, because it makes us feel like a big world player, and that we still matter. When I was at school, the world map on the wall was literally about 50% red - those were our bits - it's not that long ago, and it'll take us another 50 years to settle down to being another Belgium or New Zealand, make some money and babies, and some pretending to be the USA's best buddy.

 

In Scotland, as a wee semi-autonomous part of Britland, not always comfortable with Britland's near-total domination by the English, we have in recent years began to look towards Europe as an alternative framework in which a very wee country can peacably get on with things. Indeed, our Nationalist party has an outside chance of forming our next government on this platform, and indeed if it does, dear cousins, you'll have a few nuclear bombs and reconnaisasance bases to move elsewhere. No biggy though.

 

Where do I stand? Pro-independence, pro-Europe, in favour of cordial relations with USA - no bombs please, no tongue in your anal cavity, just a wee pal that we'll help out when we can, and vice-versa I'm sure. And we'll sell you an awful, awful lot of tartan rubbish and assure you we ALL wear it ALL the time!!!

 

Big loves

 

:D

 

Do I detect an element of "tongue in cheek" ? ;)

 

Big loves to you :D

[dorisday]

LOL..... there's a tongue in somewhere but Im not sure which cheek :p

 

Im just extremely disappointed I cant take this cruise, especially as I used to work for Princess.

Sailing with X next week & cant afford more than 1 cruise a year :confused:

[Chivalrygirl]

LOL..... there's a tongue in somewhere but Im not sure which cheek :p

 

Im just extremely disappointed I cant take this cruise, especially as I used to work for Princess.

Sailing with X next week & cant afford more than 1 cruise a year :confused:

 

Hi Doris,

Isn't there some secret society that is something to do with tongues :p

I know the feeling I am in the same boat. But come on you Poms are a heck of a lot better off than us Kiwis, least your currency is strong, ours tends to be a bit 3rd world these days :D

 

PS. DorisDay was just my favourite when I was a little girl :D