Travelagency and HAL doesnt pay my Deposit back

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

Yes but apaerntly the lady sent the TA a mail the next day saying she could not get flights to fit the cruise.

 

It is her english that got this whole mess up and running - the CC member wanted a 24 hr. hold (which is free) to check if she could get flights. At the same time the way I see it the TA took advantage of her lousy english and instead of offering the hold she wanted they waitlisted her......

 

If that is true, then she has a credit card dispute and she would be all set as long as she has proof.I hope she saved all sent emails.I assume she gave the TA the 3 digit code on back of her card so that email is vital if it exists.What I assume again, is we will see a posting that states she called the TA to cancel.

[Moeve]

If that is true, then she has a credit card dispute and she would be all set as long as she has proof.I hope she saved all sent emails.I assume she gave the TA the 3 digit code on back of her card so that email is vital if it exists.What I assume again, is we will see a posting that states she called the TA to cancel.

 

 

Unfortunately cc disputes only work in the us with us cc. Here one actually has to press charges of fraud and since the creditor is outside the country it is a dead end.

[yosh12]

Yes but apaerntly the lady sent the TA a mail the next day saying she could not get flights to fit the cruise.

 

It is her english that got this whole mess up and running - the CC member wanted a 24 hr. hold (which is free) to check if she could get flights. At the same time the way I see it the TA took advantage of her lousy english and instead of offering the hold she wanted they waitlisted her......

 

Well there is proof in emails that he/she knew the cabins were NOT available and he/she hoped they would be. Meaning they clearly understood they were waitlisted, not confirmed in anything.

 

There is no proof shown here anyway, that an email was sent within 2 days cancelling the cruise. Now if there is, good for the OP, I'm sure someone between the TA and cruise line would consider that a valid cancellation. However it doesn't sound like that has been provided to anyone.

 

Again, no fraud against the agency. It looked to me like OP knew what they were getting into.

[Moeve]

Yosh I never said there was fraud (that was only in reference to the credit card dispute - which does not work in Europe) going on but rather that the agencey took advantage of the clients bad english... Remember they got at least 10 % as commision for services not completely rendered

 

The least HAL could have done after discovering the problem with the english was to allow her to carry the deposit over to a new cruise.

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

 

The least HAL could have done after discovering the problem with the english was to allow her to carry the deposit over to a new cruise.

 

Why? The OP was trying to get around the system and got burnt as a result of it.If she was not trying to get the US rates for US residents she would have been dealing with local people,laws,and language.

Is it there were no flights available or that there were none available that the OP wanted.

[Moeve]

Why? The OP was trying to get around the system and got burnt as a result of it.If she was not trying to get the US rates for US residents she would have been dealing with local people,laws,and language.

Is it there were no flights available or that there were none available that the OP wanted.

 

This does not really have anything to do with residence rates - remember it is a free market to HAL who really doesn't care where you are from (Princess is the only exception to this "rule") and HAL doesn't sell ALL its cruises here (meaning if you choose a particular Itin not offered by the local contractor here - one has to book in the US regardless) and especially not those specials offered after final payment.

 

 

It is a case of limited languages skills that caught our CC friend. She unfortunately was unable to differenciat between the term wailist and the 24 hour free hold.

 

It was a hard way to learn an important leasson and I sure hope many others learnt with her!!!

 

As to the flight I believe she could get one to fit the dates at all.

[Svenja66]

I told her, that if a cabin will be available I first has to check the flights.

I have asked her if I dont get flights do I get my money of the Deposit back - she saied Yes! So thats what I did. As I was on waitlist she didnt informed me, that there are now a lot of rooms available at this cruise. I saw it because I checked everyday the Homepage of HAl. So I send her an e-mail to check and after that mail she gave me an offer for 2 rooms.

After I told her -within the 48 hours -that I didnt find payable! flights and that I dont need the reservation longer she never answered my mail.

Why did she cancelled the reservation just 3 days before departue???

She also never got informations of me - like names and Dates from the passengers.

I never got anything of her like a booking number.

 

Someone told me, that if you pay mony for such a deposit, the cruiseline will never pay it back so close to departure. Did she told me that? She told me, that I will get it back.

 

Is that her way of customer care?

[Leafpeeper]

Your English is much better than our German. No need for you to apologize.

 

Good Luck.

 

Our credit card company is very good about refunding our account. You should write an email to your credit card company disputing this charge. They should refund your account.

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

I told her, that if a cabin will be available I first has to check the flights.

I have asked her if I dont get flights do I get my money of the Deposit back - she saied Yes! So thats what I did. As I was on waitlist she didnt informed me, that there are now a lot of rooms available at this cruise. I saw it because I checked everyday the Homepage of HAl. So I send her an e-mail to check and after that mail she gave me an offer for 2 rooms.

After I told her -within the 48 hours -that I didnt find payable! flights and that I dont need the reservation longer she never answered my mail.

Why did she cancelled the reservation just 3 days before departue???

She also never got informations of me - like names and Dates from the passengers.

I never got anything of her like a booking number.

 

Someone told me, that if you pay mony for such a deposit, the cruiseline will never pay it back so close to departure. Did she told me that? She told me, that I will get it back.

 

Is that her way of customer care?

 

If she had no info like the names and dates of the passengers then you had no booking.How in the world did she even hold it with out a name on it?

[yosh12]

I told her, that if a cabin will be available I first has to check the flights.

I have asked her if I dont get flights do I get my money of the Deposit back - she saied Yes! So thats what I did. As I was on waitlist she didnt informed me, that there are now a lot of rooms available at this cruise. I saw it because I checked everyday the Homepage of HAl. So I send her an e-mail to check and after that mail she gave me an offer for 2 rooms.

After I told her -within the 48 hours -that I didnt find payable! flights and that I dont need the reservation longer she never answered my mail.

Why did she cancelled the reservation just 3 days before departue???

She also never got informations of me - like names and Dates from the passengers.

I never got anything of her like a booking number.

 

Someone told me, that if you pay mony for such a deposit, the cruiseline will never pay it back so close to departure. Did she told me that? She told me, that I will get it back.

 

Is that her way of customer care?

 

"Someone" told you?? Who told you that? Some stranger you met online, or a cruise professional looking at the specifics of your booking?

 

There was no indication in your email that you did not understand what "waitlisted" meant. Did you ask her? What she told you was completely true, you need to leave a deposit to get on a waitlist, and if a room opens up, you have 2 days to accept it. Then the charge goes through. And if you can't find flights in those 2 days, YES you are due a full refund. And there was no booking number because, as you accepted, you did NOT have a cabin booked.

 

I see no evidence of a language "issue". I'm sure plenty of English speaking customers may not know the difference between waitlist versus sold-out versus confirmed cabin. I'm sure some TAs will explain it and others will not. Are they taking advantage of people too? As long as they give you the correct details (such as there is no cabin available right now, you wil go on a waitlist and you will have 2 days to cancel if you change your mind), isn't that all that matters?

 

But again, where the proof is of that email is what remains in question? If you provided an email with a date stamp that shows you did this within 48hrs, then what's the problem? It sounds to me (but again, I've only see the emails you've posted which does not show the cancellation one), that you did not notify her in time, and you're out the money. That was your error, not hers.

 

Sorry, but at some point, personal responsibility comes into play too.

[yosh12]

Yosh I never said there was fraud (that was only in reference to the credit card dispute - which does not work in Europe) going on but rather that the agencey took advantage of the clients bad english... Remember they got at least 10 % as commision for services not completely rendered

 

The least HAL could have done after discovering the problem with the english was to allow her to carry the deposit over to a new cruise.

 

No, I know. I was referring to another post somewhere.

 

Whether or not the agent got paid isn't the issue. Whether or not he understood what "waitlisted" meant isn't the issue. The agent clearly told the client he had 48hrs to accept or cancel if a cabin opened up. There is no evidence (at least here anyway) that proves that he did that. There is clear evidence that he understood that policy though.

 

I just see this as it comes down to canceling. If there is an email sent, there should not be a problem. He is due a refund, plain and simple.

[Moeve]

That is just it - according to our cc friend there is another mail with the cancellation. The question is with something soo important would you have left it to an Email??? At least I would have made one phone call to check if everything had been done. In this case th TA is I believe saying that there was no cancellation.

 

You will get now argument out of me that this is the risk one takes when booking in a language you don't fully understand. If you speak a perfect english well sure why not but beware that there are pitfalls. This is one of them. Unfortunately if it happens one really can't complain since you were willing to take the risk.

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

Why did she cancelled the reservation just 3 days before departue???

?

 

Thats an interesting question?? What was the TAs answer?Who gave the TA authority to cancel it or where did the TA get it?

[Moeve]

Thats an interesting question?? What was the TAs answer?Who gave the TA authority to cancel it or where did the TA get it?

 

Personally I believe they over saw the email cancelling the cruise from our CC friend and when they found it (perhaps in the spam filter) it was tooo late and instead of fessing up to the problem the TA in question MAY have tried to cover up since of course by now the payment had been deducted by HAL and according to HAL correctly so.

 

I wish we could help our CC friend in some way.....

[cruiseco]

I told her, that if a cabin will be available I first has to check the flights.

I have asked her if I dont get flights do I get my money of the Deposit back - she saied Yes! So thats what I did. As I was on waitlist she didnt informed me, that there are now a lot of rooms available at this cruise. I saw it because I checked everyday the Homepage of HAl. So I send her an e-mail to check and after that mail she gave me an offer for 2 rooms.

After I told her -within the 48 hours -that I didnt find payable! flights and that I dont need the reservation longer she never answered my mail.

Why did she cancelled the reservation just 3 days before departue???

She also never got informations of me - like names and Dates from the passengers.

I never got anything of her like a booking number.

 

Someone told me, that if you pay mony for such a deposit, the cruiseline will never pay it back so close to departure. Did she told me that? She told me, that I will get it back.

 

Is that her way of customer care?

 

To the best of my knowledge, HAL has two forms of "waitlists". The first would be for those who are booked on the cruise but are hoping a specific room category will open up later. If it does, they will have the option of taking the room and will pay the difference in fare at the current rate.

 

The second type of waitlist is when a ship is sold out and someone wants to go. The client will have to put up a deposit (1/2 of the normal deposit) and if anything opens up in a category that's acceptable and the client accepts the offer then the credit card is charged for the remaining amount due. If nothing opens up in a category acceptable to the client then the deposit is refunded. When making this type of waitlist reservation the client can select as few an one room category or every category.

 

I may be wrong but the way I read this story is that the cabin this person wanted was available at the time, she was OK with the fare, but just needed time to see if the airfare situation would work. In other words, the TA told her that a waitlist booking could be used to hold a cabin that was currently available in the res inventory.

 

This is absolutely false. With HAL a waitlist booking cannot be used if cabins in the requested room category are available. So, if I've got the facts right what the TA said she was doing is not possible to do.

 

As far as the cancellation three days prior to sailing, it would be interesting to see who actually made the cancellation. If HAL finally decided that without full payment the reservation was dead that's one thing. But if the cancellation was made at the instigation of the TA that would lead me to believe that the TA knew something was wrong.

 

Here's a long shot -- maybe, since the TA was so willing to spend your money, you might have had HAL's cancellation penalty waiver included in the amount charged. It that is so, then if the res was cancelled three days prior to sailing the penalties are waived. It's a one-in-a-million shot but worth checking.

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

Personally I believe they over saw the email cancelling the cruise from our CC friend and when they found it (perhaps in the spam filter) it was tooo late and instead of fessing up to the problem the TA in question MAY have tried to cover up since of course by now the payment had been deducted by HAL and according to HAL correctly so.

 

I wish we could help our CC friend in some way.....

 

Thats what I am thinking.If she was paid in full,then why cancell?

[cruiseco]

Thats what I am thinking.If she was paid in full,then why cancell?

 

That's just one of the many things that don't add up.

 

Part of dealing with a waitlist booking is that the TA can't quote a fare as the poster says happened. The fare will be whatever the current fare is at the time the waitlist clears, not the fare in effect at the time the waitlist booking is opened. So if a TA quotes a fare when the waitlist res is made it could be hundreds of dollars off when the waitlist clears. That's why the deposit made on a waitlist res with HAL is never at risk. If the offer comes back way out of your budget you just let it go and no harm done. You're not gambling on a future fare quote.

 

If this was indeed a true waitlist booking, what happens if a cabin opens up is that HAL will contact the TA, give her the fare information, the cabin number, and 24 to 48 hours to get a yes or no from the client. If the client declines the offered cabin then the the waitlist res is cancelled and the deposit is refunded back on the credit card.

 

In other words, if a waitlist clears the only way for the client to lose the deposit that was put up is if the client or the TA positively affirms an acceptance of the offer -- cabin and fare. If no answer comes back within that 24 to 48 hour time frame then HAL assumes that the offer has been declined and the res will die.

 

Doing nothing if notified that the waitlist has cleared should not cause a loss of the deposit that was made. No response is taken the same way as a decline.

 

If this was a true waitlist reservation that turned into a confirmed booking then someone -- in this case the TA -- had to accept the offer of cabin and fare. HAL has checked their records so they would know exactly who said "yes" to the offer and I'll guarantee it would be the TA.

 

This all goes back to the TA.

 

For those of you who say that the poster had full knowledge of the booking procedure in a waitlist situation and is thus at fault, I disagree. There's two ways of letting a waitlist res die -- #1 notify HAL that the offer is declined. or #2 do nothing and let the offer expire. Either way, the client would lose no money. The poster did #2 (either by intent or by luck) and so has no further responsibility. It's the TA that told HAL (could be no one else or this never was a waitlist res to begin with) that the offer was accepted without getting confirmation from the client. It's the TA that should have to absorb the loss.

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

That's just one of the many things that don't add up.

 

Part of dealing with a waitlist booking is that the TA can't quote a fare as the poster says happened. The fare will be whatever the current fare is at the time the waitlist clears, not the fare in effect at the time the waitlist booking is opened. So if a TA quotes a fare when the waitlist res is made it could be hundreds of dollars off when the waitlist clears. That's why the deposit made on a waitlist res with HAL is never at risk. If the offer comes back way out of your budget you just let it go and no harm done. You're not gambling on a future fare quote.

 

If this was indeed a true waitlist booking, what happens if a cabin opens up is that HAL will contact the TA, give her the fare information, the cabin number, and 24 to 48 hours to get a yes or no from the client. If the client declines the offered cabin then the the waitlist res is cancelled and the deposit is refunded back on the credit card.

 

In other words, if a waitlist clears the only way for the client to lose the deposit that was put up is if the client or the TA positively affirms an acceptance of the offer -- cabin and fare. If no answer comes back within that 24 to 48 hour time frame then HAL assumes that the offer has been declined and the res will die.

 

Doing nothing if notified that the waitlist has cleared should not cause a loss of the deposit that was made. No response is taken the same way as a decline.

 

If this was a true waitlist reservation that turned into a confirmed booking then someone -- in this case the TA -- had to accept the offer of cabin and fare. HAL has checked their records so they would know exactly who said "yes" to the offer and I'll guarantee it would be the TA.

 

This all goes back to the TA.

 

For those of you who say that the poster had full knowledge of the booking procedure in a waitlist situation and is thus at fault, I disagree. There's two ways of letting a waitlist res die -- #1 notify HAL that the offer is declined. or #2 do nothing and let the offer expire. Either way, the client would lose no money. The poster did #2 (either by intent or by luck) and so has no further responsibility. It's the TA that told HAL (could be no one else or this never was a waitlist res to begin with) that the offer was accepted without getting confirmation from the client. It's the TA that should have to absorb the loss.

 

 

This brings me to my other question....How could there be a booking without passenger names or DOB?

[Svenja66]

Personally I believe they over saw the email cancelling the cruise from our CC friend and when they found it (perhaps in the spam filter) it was tooo late and instead of fessing up to the problem the TA in question MAY have tried to cover up since of course by now the payment had been deducted by HAL and according to HAL correctly so.

 

I wish we could help our CC friend in some way.....

 

 

Sorry, but why should she found my e-mail in the spam filter. We had a lot of email contact with her. She answered very very soon all my emails before. No email was forgotten or in the spam fliter before. But after I canceld I heared never again of here! In my email with the cancellation I saied thanks for her help and that I will contact her sure for my next cruise-booking. You think she over saw my mail. Maybe ...but after I got no answer I send her a second.

But In your case that she oversaw both emails ( but I realy dont think so) - if you have a client and you know that she will loose a ot of money when she dont cancell in time you may go in contact with her???

And also in that case that she oversaw my mails she must think that I will do the cruise so thats also a much better reason to go soon in contact with me again. Because in that case I think there had been a lot of work to do for her - like to get the names of all passengers and my adress and more. But nothing happend.

You have so many excuses for the TA but for me -who cancelled in time -you say I have to learn from that thing. Have you ever thought that she simple forgot to give my cancellation to HAL.

You want me to learn from it - yes I did learned 2 things.

At first I lost my trust on poeple

At second - when you fall deap on bottom there is always someone running over you.

[Svenja66]

...But all the people here who realy want to help me bring my trust on people back.

If I get my money back or not - it was good for me to have you all.

I will try everything to get my money back. Because in my! opinion I did everything right. I played on the rules she gave me.

 

What can I do at next step. Does it makes sence to answer the letter of HAL. Maybe.

Write to the TA? That is very difficult for me, but I will try to use a translator.

 

I also will contakt cruise compleate.

 

And I will check my legal costs insurance if I can use her also in buiseness of USA.

 

And I will contact again VISA Gold Card

 

Has anyone another idea?

 

I am sure open for everything.

 

Thans Svenja

[yosh12]

AGain, this is very simple. You should have an email, with a time and date stamp on it, showing that you cancelled within 48 hrs of her telling you a cabin was available.

 

With that, there should be no question.

 

But again, nowhere was THAT posted. Many emails between you and the TA were posted, but no evidence of the date she said a cabin opened up, and the date that you wrote to say cancel it.

 

It doesn't matter what the TA told you ahead of time. She gave you the correct timeframe to change your mind. Everyone agrees on that. None of us know for sure if you reacted in time.

 

So I say again, with those 2 emails, there should be no problem. Yet you still have a problem, which makes me think MAYBE you weren't within the allotted time frame with your notice. But only you know since you have not shared those VERY important emails with the board here.

 

Next time, spend more time being concerned with finding a local TA who can help you and walk you through the process step by step, instead of competing online with agencies you've never heard of just to save a buck or two.

[cruiseco]

AGain, this is very simple. You should have an email, with a time and date stamp on it, showing that you cancelled within 48 hrs of her telling you a cabin was available.

 

With that, there should be no question.

 

But again, nowhere was THAT posted. Many emails between you and the TA were posted, but no evidence of the date she said a cabin opened up, and the date that you wrote to say cancel it.

 

It doesn't matter what the TA told you ahead of time. She gave you the correct timeframe to change your mind. Everyone agrees on that. None of us know for sure if you reacted in time.

.

 

You're missing the point. EVERYTHING the TA told this person was innacurate. For example this:

 

"When you waitlist a cabin you are given 48 hours to decide whether or not you want the cabin."

 

That's not how HAL handles waitlists. For one thing, you can not initiate a waitlist on a cabin that is currently available. You cannot quote a fare on a waitlisted cabin. And there is no time limit for a decision when a waitlist booking is made since no one knows whether the waitlist request will ever clear.

 

Secondly, in a waitlist booking, even if the cabin does become availabe, no response from the client os necessary is the cabin and fare offer is not wanted. With no response then the waitlist will automatically be treated as a decline and expire and the credit card will be refunded.

 

There is only one way that this could possible have turned into a loss for the poster. The TA told HAL that the offer was accepted.

 

A TA can't just make up the rules. The tern "waitlist" has a very specific meaning with HAL and there are very specific policies and procedures ton follow. One of the rules is that the waitlist booking doesn't become a confirmed booking unless the client says "no" within a certain timeframe. It's just the opposite. The only way for the waitlist booking to convert to a confirmed booking is if someone (in this case obviously the TA) positively tells HAL to go ahead.

 

There are two ways to decline a waitlist offer: #1 Call HAL and tell them, or #2 Just let the option period expire. Maybe not by intent, but in fact the posted used method #2 -- she did not positively accept the offer in the required time period. HAL's policy in these cases is to cancel the waitlist and refund the deposit. There is no penalty for letting the option expire.

 

So asking why the poster has not produced a copy of the email declining the booking is completely immaterial. She didn't have to. She could have never contacted the TA again and should not have lost a penny.

 

I still have doubts that this truly was a waitlist booking. But as soon as the TA put it in writing that it was a waitlist she bound herself to following HAL's policies and procedures concerning these types of bookings. That instantly absolved the client from any future responsibility to respond in any form. No response --> waitlist cancels automatiucally --> deposit is returned to the client. That HAL's rules of the game. That's the rules the client adhered to.

[cruiseco]

Svenja --

 

If you want to pursue this you'll have to contact HAL again to get the following information:

 

Was this in fact ever a waitlist booking?

 

If so, who shows in the booking record as the person who accepted the waitlist offer and the date the offer was accepted.

 

If not a waitlist booking, this was a regular booking. In that case full payment was due. Is there something in the booking record explaining why? Possinly the TA told HAL that final payment was made by check and the "check was in the mail." (perfectly legitimate by the way, if in fact true). It would be interesting to see if the TA was lying to HAL also.

 

What were the cancellation penalties in place at that time? What were the cancellation penalties in place when the booking was cancelled?

 

Who canceled the booking? Was it the TA or was it canceled by HAL for lack of full payment?

 

I'd write to the person at HAL who responded to your earlier letter. If they respond, [please post what they say. I'd be curious to see just what happened here.

[Moeve]

Svenja -you see you even misinterprid what I have said....you suggest that I am looking for excuses for the TA. I am NOT but rather tried to find an explanation for what exactly they did with you. In find out what exactly happened we might be able to help you in the end.

 

Question when you did not hear from them confirming your cancellation even on you second email what did you do??

[yosh12]

Question when you did not hear from them confirming your cancellation even on you second email what did you do??

 

Good question.

 

And none of the experts here have even mentioned the fact that it is very likely the agency has cancellation policies as well. They give you a timeline, they send you info, and they don't hear back from you. They know they explained the cancellation policies to you, yet still hear nothing.

 

Cruise cancels 3 days prior, and you're out your deposit.