Religious Services on Carnival.

[conrad75070]

Was the ship aware that it was the Passover week? If so were matzoh made available on board? If not, did people bring along their own? Certainly in Judaism, one does not need a Rabbi to officiate. Rabbi merely means "teacher".

We've been to many chavurim in our younger days.

 

However, I thought that in the Catholic religion, the priest or other clerical hierarchy function as intercessionaries between the laity and God. Thus Catholics NEED a mass with a priest blessing the wafer before they can receive the "body of Christ", and a priest blessing the wine before they can receive "the blood". Perhaps this is why Catholics are always concerned about missing mass during their time at sea.

 

I believe Protestants did away with the intercessionary - or is that only non-Anglican protestants?

 

BnB

 

You are right. A Priest has to bless the wafer and wine. But a lay person (non Priest) can be blessed themselves to offer the wafer (host) which has already been blessed by a Priest. This is done quite often in Hospitals and sparsely popuated areas where there are not enough Priests.

[GoinCruisin]

Oh hon, I live in a really nice place & I hope I didn't scare anyone there!

 

I live in NC, but due to something I felt called to do one time, it caused a pretty good ruckus! It wasn't something I wanted to do, but.....I was listening to what I knew I was being told to do.....so to stay in the word.....I did it of course.

 

Part of me says I should keep my mouth shut, but then other parts of me say I should just tell you what it was. The worse thing that can happen is I can have more of what has already been done to me & like I said I can accept that.

 

So felt called to start a petition to get peer inspired prayer put back in schools & for the moment of silence to actually exsist everyday. Spent alot of time in Raleigh sorting this one out & talked to alot of officials. Still is an ongoing thing but I work a little more under camo these days as I was shot at & did receive several kidnapping threats concerning my kids. Couldn't even honor them for their good grades in school for years because I wasn't comfortable listing their names in the paper. Had to change their schools several times & move 3 times just to keep the address off the air. But to the good it's went it's in over 26 states and has millions of signatures and has been widely talked about since I felt led to go & do that.

 

I do have several different websites concerning the different things I have been involved in plus the online ministry....there's so much more I could say on that.....but.

 

:cool:

 

WOW!! I will say... I have lived in NC (Raleigh) most of my life and have never heard of anything like this happening... we are in the bible belt, and I can't imagine those things happening just over something like prayer in school... I'm guessing there is more to the story... Now, for all my CC friends that are coming to Raleigh next week, please don't let this story scare you :eek: Yikes!

[Mikel1733]

If I can find Synagoues in all of these remote places, I really don't think any of you devout Christians would have much trouble finding your religious services in any of the ports you visit...I would suggest it would be a far more moving and religious experience to pray amongst the locals in these distant and diverse places than it would be to hold a "service" in some cruise ship lounge somewhere between Bingo and Karaoke...

 

Well said. I think we are all probably spinning our wheels here. I really don't see the cruiselines doing much more than possibly providing a small chapel area for personal reflection.

[kelz66]

Oh hon, I live in a really nice place & I hope I didn't scare anyone there!

 

I live in NC, but due to something I felt called to do one time, it caused a pretty good ruckus! It wasn't something I wanted to do, but.....I was listening to what I knew I was being told to do.....so to stay in the word.....I did it of course.

 

Part of me says I should keep my mouth shut, but then other parts of me say I should just tell you what it was. The worse thing that can happen is I can have more of what has already been done to me & like I said I can accept that.

 

So felt called to start a petition to get peer inspired prayer put back in schools & for the moment of silence to actually exsist everyday. Spent alot of time in Raleigh sorting this one out & talked to alot of officials. Still is an ongoing thing but I work a little more under camo these days as I was shot at & did receive several kidnapping threats concerning my kids. Couldn't even honor them for their good grades in school for years because I wasn't comfortable listing their names in the paper. Had to change their schools several times & move 3 times just to keep the address off the air. But to the good it's went it's in over 26 states and has millions of signatures and has been widely talked about since I felt led to go & do that.

 

I do have several different websites concerning the different things I have been involved in plus the online ministry....there's so much more I could say on that.....but.

 

:cool:

 

Well....even God may agree that somethings are not worth it when it endangers children.

[cruiselubbers]

WOW!! I will say... I have lived in NC (Raleigh) most of my life and have never heard of anything like this happening... we are in the bible belt, and I can't imagine those things happening just over something like prayer in school... I'm guessing there is more to the story... Now, for all my CC friends that are coming to Raleigh next week, please don't let this story scare you :eek: Yikes!

 

 

Well in High Point, NC trust me it happened!

 

You would think us being in the middle of the bible belt all would be good, but here we go everyone is not the same & don't have the same opinion. There really is nothing more to this story. I was on the news, had the petition going on, was on the radio, in the papers & on tv several times. Had my pager as the contact number, would return calls only to hear they wanted me dead. Had a P.R.A.Y. rally and got followed, had my two kids in the car at the time 3 & 5 and had to hide out as they were trying to run as off the road. You'd be surprised how bad people that don't want something can go over the edge. I have to say though the experience in Raleigh at the Legislative Building and other office buildings was more the welcoming. Even had the opportunity to pray and lead service in the Legislative Building with our senators & other cabinet members during noon chapel time. It was great!

 

So I'd say anywhere in safe just be careful about being outspoken! ;)

[GoinCruisin]

When you do a "land" vacation, do you lobby Hilton or Hyatt to hold religious services in your hotel?

quote]

 

To be fair, when you are staying at a hotel, you can easily find a place to worship... take a taxi, no problem... it's a little different on a cruise ship.. which is why I suggested finding services when you are in port...

[cruiselubbers]

Well....even God may agree that somethings are not worth it when it endangers children.

 

 

Exactly why I work more silently then what I used to my children & hubby are my life! The good news is it did do the purpose that was initially intended to do & that was get the prayer rolling and people talking about it! And I'm still here to talk about it!

[aggieastrosfan]

Exactly why I work more silently then what I used to my children & hubby are my life!

 

In this case you might want to take pictures of yourself off the Internet. Just a thought.

[cruiselubbers]

In this case you might want to take pictures of yourself off the Internet. Just a thought.

 

I spent several years staying outta sight and it wasn't a whole lot of fun living like that I can assure you. But seeing I have worked "hidden" for so long I doubt anyone remembers...or for all that matters cares...what I look like now! This particular time in my life when getting shot at & stuff was 9 years ago, I am sure most people have forgotten what I look like by now. It seems as though when your a thorn people want to pluck you out if they see you, but if you stay away for a while they forget what the thorn looks like! ;) Thankfully! I feel pretty safe nowadays, even though I can promise you I will keep working under the radar so to speak as I don't care for anymore close encounters. I still get to do what God needs me to do by staying more or less "underground" thiis way & it keeps my family safe in the meantime. I know the kids are safe because they have aged so much in what seems like so little time! :( Yes, I want to keep them my babies forever! :D

 

Thanks for the thoughts! :cool:

[kelz66]

When I was growing up my parents wanted me to have an education in a religious setting. So they paid for me and my 3 brothers to go to 12 years of catholic school. My father worked 2 jobs and my mother cleaned houses to be able to do this and have other things for our daily living. My father being a good american and a WWII veteran did not see it as his right to force his religious beliefs on others so he could send his kids to a school for free.

 

He taught me that that was not what he fought for, nor was it what this country was about. It was built by people who wanted to escape oppression and not have the beliefs of others forced on them. A religious belief is just that a belief, a very personal belief, not a law.

[cruiselubbers]

Hats off to your parents for their hard work, especially your father. I love our veterans & current installed military more then words, I pray for them everyday.

 

However what I have going on does not change the law any differently from the way it is now, it only assures people (actually of all creeds) that they will be guarenteed one minute at the start of the day to have silent prayer. That was never taken out of the law, each school has a right to have 1 minute a day to enjoy a moment of silence. It is just not well known of or even talked about on the whole. What I was doing was just simply letting people know that they had the right to that moment. Also you cannot take away a bible or other religious item from a child during their free time such as outside free play. This has been done to many young children and it is not right for their religious item to be taken away regardless of what religion they honor. Also this does allow Peer Inspired Prayer. PIP was never banned from the school either, only adult led prayer by teachers & staff was more or less forbidden. This does allow any child regardless of religious belief once again to pray to the God of their choice & it allows them to lead prayer amongest other children. It also allows for prayer groups amongest believers of the same. It is very equal and very fair to everyone. If a student decides to lead prayer during that one moment other students can either join in the same prayer or have prayer on their own. Alot of consideration has been given about this in my local area & due to this now a moment of silence every morning. No one has had any problems with it, because it gives everyone an equal opportunity to express their beliefs & share with their peers.

 

So "free" school still allows for equal rights. I also think its fair to mention here that public "free" school really isn't free since as a homeowner and taxpayer I still have to pay for children' education whether I want to or not. There's a lot of homeschoolers in NC as well, and they still have to pay tax. It's amazing to me what little is free anymore.

 

I think however if we are going to keep discussing this, we might want to consider discussing it elsewhere....I don't want to keep posting in this thread as I don't care for others to get madder at me then what they already are. I'm not here for the great big debate....it just happened this way....and I'd be more then glad to discuss it somewhere else.

 

Take care :D

[kelz66]

Why can't the children pray at home with there families before school?

 

Why must it be done at the school?

 

Couldn't they unofficially meet in front of the school every morning and pray with thier friends?

 

Sounds like an easily solved problem but someone just wants to make a point of having it during the school day.

[cruiselubbers]

Why can't the children pray at home with there families before school?

 

Why must it be done at the school?

 

Couldn't they unofficially meet in front of the school every morning and pray with thier friends?

 

Sounds like an easily solved problem but someone just wants to make a point of having it during the school day.

 

 

Yes they can.

 

No particular reason other then it used to be done at school. And now with all the school shootings in stuff you would think it would be a good thing to have at school. There has been many a child that has felt uncomfortable in school after all the things that have happened at schools over the past few years. If it makes you feel more comfortable to start you day off in a different setting then where you started off at why not?

 

It takes us almost back to the start of the thread when I said alot of people feel comfortable praying before they start any big event. School days are big events to children. They are away from home and many of the younger children feel uneasy about this.

 

You know it's like going on a vacation....most of us when we get in the car pray we are going to have a safe trip. At the beginning of the school day it's the same thing....praying for a great, safe, happy & fun day! And mostly praying that those tests you take during the day will come back fine! :D

 

Trust me by the papers that have come in and my home over the years millions of people want to see it a point. Not just me, after all like I said I didn't start it, God lit the fire & cleared the path for me to do His work.

[aggieastrosfan]

You know it's like going on a vacation....most of us when we get in the car pray we are going to have a safe trip.

 

I've really tried to stay out of this debate, but I couldn't help commenting on this. Using this logic, why couldn't one pray on the way to school instead of actually in school?

[DCT61]

When you start off your trip with a prayer, do the people in the surrounding cars have to pray too? Or do they sit quietly. Is a law required for you to pray in your car?

[BillnBobbi]

Funny, your avatar looks like you would be old enough to remember the Doors.

 

Jim Morrison was a visionary about quasi religious goofiness. Probably why he died, because if he had lived to be old people would have thought he was a looney tune. JMHO

 

Gosh, I reread the dumb lyrics that Kelz so helpfully provided and I so wish I had been around during beatnik poetry reading in coffee houses.... actually, I am quite thankful I wasn't! What a waste of perfectly good coffee.

 

One of you owes me for about 30 minutes of my life back for making me read this thread and you know who you are!:D

 

jc

 

kelz picked up my quote of Morrison at the bottom of one of my posts, which is actually the spoken monologue at the beginning of Soft Asylum. I also want to thank him for posting the lyrics, since I lost them.

 

Well, I'M old enough to remember The Doors (who were named after one of Aldous Huxley's works - The Doors of Perception - , the title of which is based on a Shakespearean quote - "The doors of perception are between heaven and hell". - Just some hippie trivia ). Heck I'm old enough to remember when Elvis Presley got started !!!

 

I don't remember the 60s BECAUSE I WAS THERE. :-)

 

Now the Beats (or as they became known, "beatniks" - notice Beatles is spelled to honor them. In francais, Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac et al, were known as "les beats" hence reverse it and it is beatles. They are NOT bugs, not the BEETLES. - more trivia) preceeded the hippies by 12 to 15 years depending upon at which date you start. Whole different animal.

 

The pop singer who most evokes the period of the beatniks is poet/songwriter

Leonard Cohen, who just turned 82 I believe. Mazel Tov Leonard.

 

Here's a sample of his beat poetry:

 

The Music Crept By Us

 

I would like to remind

the management

that the drinks are watered

and the hat-check girl

has syphilis

and the band is composed

of former SS monsters

However, since it is

New Year's Eve

and I have lip cancer

I will place my

paper hat on my

concussion and dance

[lynyrd]

Yes they can.

 

No particular reason other then it used to be done at school. And now with all the school shootings in stuff you would think it would be a good thing to have at school. There has been many a child that has felt uncomfortable in school after all the things that have happened at schools over the past few years. If it makes you feel more comfortable to start you day off in a different setting then where you started off at why not?

 

.

 

If I remember correctly, there was a school shooting during a prayer meeting somewhere. You talked about what happened to you and your children when you tried to get this started. Thefore, isn't there a possibility of someone who disagrees with payer in school to try to do something during a prayer meeting to prove their point?

[dwrist]

I've really tried to stay out of this debate, but I couldn't help commenting on this. Using this logic, why couldn't one pray on the way to school instead of actually in school?

 

You can still pray in schools, only not out loud. There is nothing wrong with prayer by students in classes to themselves!!

 

Reading this since last night, I find I do not associate with this kind of "Christianity" that is being portrayed in this thread. My beliefs are my own and I can worship God at sea myself without the need of a clergy present. :)

Everyone have a pleasant afternoon and evening. Good-by;)

[BillnBobbi]

Well said!

 

Thank you. I appreciate that, and thank you for taking the time to read it.

 

BnB

 

Oh, here's another quote for cruiselubber. From Mr. Cohen's "Sisters of Mercy"

 

"You who must leave everything

that you cannot control

It begins with your family

but soon it comes round to your soul

I've been where you're hanging

I think I can see where you're pinned

When you're not feeling holy

your loneliness tells you you've sinned."

 

 

Peace and love (and sex and drugs and rock n roll !!!)

 

BnB

[aggieastrosfan]

You can still pray in schools, only not out loud. There is nothing wrong with prayer by students in classes to themselves!!

 

I agree, students can pray to themselves anytime they want to. What I don't understand is why this isn't enough, and blubber's personal never-ending crusade to have a specific time set aside for it.

[kelz66]

Yes they can.

 

No particular reason other then it used to be done at school. And now with all the school shootings in stuff you would think it would be a good thing to have at school. There has been many a child that has felt uncomfortable in school after all the things that have happened at schools over the past few years. If it makes you feel more comfortable to start you day off in a different setting then where you started off at why not?

 

It takes us almost back to the start of the thread when I said alot of people feel comfortable praying before they start any big event. School days are big events to children. They are away from home and many of the younger children feel uneasy about this.

 

You know it's like going on a vacation....most of us when we get in the car pray we are going to have a safe trip. At the beginning of the school day it's the same thing....praying for a great, safe, happy & fun day! And mostly praying that those tests you take during the day will come back fine! :D

 

Trust me by the papers that have come in and my home over the years millions of people want to see it a point. Not just me, after all like I said I didn't start it, God lit the fire & cleared the path for me to do His work.

 

Then why make my child or some one elses child uncomfortable by making a big deal about having to have an "official" moment of prayer in school?

 

Why try to do such an unamerican and unconstitutional act and try to push legislation thru to force others to to what you can simply choose to do on your own already?

 

Why must something so personal have to be made a public spectacle?

 

"Look, I'm praying..I'm so good."

 

I was also taught that actions speak louder than words.

 

Freedom from religious persecution is a constitutional right...and I will not have anyone force thiers on me or legislate any laws or rules to make me or any other american follow or be forcibly exposed to thier beliefs.

 

It's not what my father fought for. and it is not what this country is all about.

 

Come to Philadelphia and visit our national constitution center. You will definitely leave with a new perspective on the world and our present polititions. :D

[Mrichy555]

Wow - Let it be let it be ooh let it be

 

Sorry the christmas tree is special to me and has no religious symbolism to me just happy times and presents ! yipeeeee

 

I am not religious myself, in fact I wonder sometimes what all the fuss is about, last year I lost my beautiful 42 year old sister and the year before my wonderful 32 girlfriend, so I just Let it be these days............ life is for the living, make the most of it you certainly don't know how long you all have.

 

So because it has no religou smeaning to YOU its okay. Wow you must be somebody special.

[kelz66]

So because it has no religou smeaning to YOU its okay. Wow you must be somebody special.

 

What religous meaning does a chistmas tree have?

 

I did not know that evergreen trees grew in the middle east? :rolleyes:

[Bruin Steve]

If that's truly "the law" in North Carolina, then it's WRONG...

 

I'd like to propose we institute just a minute of "student-led" Devil Worship in YOUR school...

Those who don't believe in Satan don't have to join in...but peer pressure IS pretty powerful stuff among young folks...

 

So, imagine what YOUR "Christian" Kindergardener will feel like when he/she finds out that most of his/her classmates are Satanists...especially the "cool ones"...and no matter what he/she is taught at home, it's awfully hard feeling left out when all the other young ones are praising Satan...

 

I mean, nothing forces them to join in...but...well, really...why would one want to feel like an outsider? After all, the teacher believes in Satan too...

 

Yeah, enough of that already...

 

I really like this thread better as it moves toward something we can all believe in:

Jim Morrison and Leonard Cohen...

 

Morrison, the Lizard King and my fellow UCLA Alum...Yup, the Doors all met at UCLA...Jim was a Film major...

 

Leonard Cohen is one of the all-time great songwriters...Interesting to see his name invoked here on a "religion" thread...His songs often SEEM to steer into a religious theme as he uses a great deal of biblical imagery...Oftentimes people hear one of his masterworks, "Hallelujah", filled with biblical allusions and assume it is a religious piece of music...

 

It's a song about SEX, thank God:

 

"I've heard there was a secret chord

That David played and it pleased the Lord

But you don't really care for music, do you?

 

It goes like this...the fourth, the fifth

The minor fall

The major lift

The baffled King composing Hallelujah

 

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

 

Your faith was strong but you needed proof

You saw her bathing on the roof

Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew you.

 

She tied you to a kitchen chair

She broke your throne

She cut your hair

And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

 

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

 

Maybe I have been here before

I know this room, I've walked this floor

I used to live alone before I knew you.

 

I've seen your flag on the marble arch

Love is not a victory march

It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah

 

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

 

There was a time you let me know

What's really going on below

But now you never show it to me, do you?

 

And remember when I moved in you

The holy dove was moving too

And every breath we drew was Hallelujah

 

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

 

Maybe there's a God above

And all I ever learned from love

Was how to shoot at someone who outdrew you.

 

And it's not a cry you can hear at night

it's not somebody who's seen the light

it's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah

 

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah"

 

It's been covered by so many singers over the years. The John Cale version is used in the film "Shrek" and is absolutely magnificent. Leonard's own voice is somewhat gruff and tends to grate on people, but I recommend buying his music on one of the several "tribute" albums, especially, "I'm Your Fan" or "Tower of Song":

 

http://www.amazon.com/Im-Your-Fan-Various-Artists/dp/B000002ISX

 

http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Song-Songs-Leonard-Cohen/dp/B000001EZK/ref=pd_sim_m_1/102-7239070-4509757

[BillnBobbi]

Awesome return post from you thanks. I did want to go in here & point out this one part of your thread because it is very important to me. You are very right you & I both will walk away from this discussion at peace. No doubt about it. It can't begin to say online the things that I have felt led to do in my life for His honor, but I can tell you in the process I have been shot at, laughed at, screamed at, cursed at, plus more not including had people threaten to kidnap my children so to me this all is very minor. It's something I have endured over the years and will continue to endure. But when it's all said and done I know I have peace within because everynight that I go to bed I can lay down and put my head on my pillow knowing I have done what He's asked me to do. Whether the rest of the world agrees with it or not has nothing to do with me, I know who I serve.

 

I still say the best solution would be to have an open prayer time announced for a non-denominational prayer time....have someone just say it's began & same person say prayer time is over & just have a united group of people. As I said earlier even maybe a moment of silence before setting sail so people can pray for a safe journey. I think everyone prays for that no matter who or what they believe in. My bro the atheist always does just so he has peace of mind. It works for him.

 

Peace :cool:

 

 

 

Hey, do you suppose that kind of thing helped the folks on the Titanic?

Or, how about the Lusitania?

Andrea Doria?

 

If your brother actually prays for a safe trip, then he is NO atheist.

 

BnB