Negative things I've heard about Carnival

[Christina M.]

I have been on Carnival and RC. For our honeymoom my DH and I went on a cruise ( my hubby fisrt) and he loved Carnival. We had only been on the ship 15 min and called our travel agent and told her he was hooked. We went on RC and he was not as happy with things.

Good luck. With ever lines you go on a cruise is the only way to go. :)

[DEcruiser1]

:o I am sorry to upset anyone who might be a loyal Carnival fan. I have been told by some people I know to avoid Carnival for "something better," like RC. I have been looking at cruises and have basically avoided looking at anything Carnival, and I am now rethinking my choice after reading through the boards. Seems like many of you LOVE Carnival. They are very reasonable, that's for sure- and I just wanted to ask your opinions.

 

My aunts said avoid Carnival because of the (and I cringe even mentioning this) food bourne illness issues from the past. I've heard that the food is horrible compared to the other lines, and here I read it is wonderful. I've heard that the ships are "cheap" and "garrish" and there is a reason why they cost less- you get what you pay for...?

 

This will be like a honeymoon for me and my wonderful husband, and I want him to have a blast (so he will want to cruise over and over again!!!) LOL- no, also just because I want us to have a grand time together. We are in our early 30s, no kids yet.

 

Inform me please!

 

 

 

 

Ok. Here's my 2cents. Everything that other carnival cruisers has said is true. But I also submit that Carnival has something else. It's just a feeling that other cruises that I've been of have lacked. Its just something in the atmosphere. Carnival is just more fun. The Carnival "party boat" is in the past but still something more fun remains. Now here is something to consider. I hear many who go into a Carnival cruise with preconceived ideas that they are going to have a bad time. They will have one small inconvenience. One disgruntled crew member, and they're entire cruise is ruined. On EVERY cruise that I've been on (Carnival or others) there is at least one crew member that is having a bad day, or is generally just, well, ... not nice. You can't let this ruin your entire trip. Generally, the crew works extremely hard and still provides service with a smile.

 

I can't speak for all other cruise lines, but I did sail RCCL's sovereign class (monarch of the seas) and I found the cabins to be cramped, the crew bland, the food "nothing to write home about". So, go ahead, enjoy Carnival. And, if you choose another line, enjoy just the same!

[trock]

Wal-Mart is sued more and loses more employee based suits than any other retailer on a per store basis and it's more than unions. It's sexual discrimination, non-payment of overtime, and other wonderful violations. Don't compare them to Carnival. Wal-Mart and its lawyers favorite pasttime is trying not to get classes certified for class action suits. They lose most of them. Forcing employees to work "off the clock" is pretty bad and I hope they get killed on that one.

 

I'll shop at Target, thank you. Carnival charges lower prices than the competition. It has nothing to do with taking advantage of its employees.

 

 

Hate to tell you this, and i am a huge fan of Target merchandise, they work exactly like wal mart.. even worse

I witnessed some pretty bad employer/employee harrassment on a mentally impaired employee on more than one occassion and so much so i called the HQ

 

At least here on the island their reputation is becoming more known and liken to walmart

[Patdmoose]

In 12 days my wife will go PLATINUM on Carnival. It will be my 8th cruise. We have never tried another cruise line, and at this time we have no desire to. Carnival has consistently given us a great value for our vacation dollar, very good food choices, and 'if it ain't broke, why try to fix it'

 

-two 50+ year olds

[DavidandPaula]

We have had enough time home to look back and put things into perspective.

 

If I had been asked this question on the last day I guess I would have been really negative. Stood in line to pursers desk for over an hour just to return an extension lead on the last night. Waited for a long time on the disembarkation day for our number to be called ( Red 5 - made own arrangements) and finally walked off at 9am to find our luggage at one end of the peir and the shuttle bus at the other end. Add some surly waiters in the open dining breakfast on the last day, bath robes removed during last day, and mini fridge locked during last day and I would have to say that the last half day and overnight made me feel pretty negative.

As opposed to that up until then we had an absolutely great time for a first cruise, a long 12 day one at that.

Food was superb, service from regular staff outstanding.

Inside stateroom was perfect for us, very comfortable and located just right.

Decor on the ship does tend to make you gasp on first boarding but you very quickly get used to it and do not notice it.

Facilities were great, we still had not tried out everything by the end of the cruise.

Some shore excursions were a bit marginal but they were our choice and not really something that Carnival has control over.

If there was anything that I did not like fully it would be the entertainment. John Heald did some good things and many people swear by him as a cruise director. I must admit to finding some of his staged humor just a bit monotomous and I am certain I will cop a lot of criticism for daring to be critical of John. The comedian/magician was great, split my sides laughing. The opera singer had a great voice but the sound mixer should have got of his chair for that one as I found the sound balance between the singer and the band terrrible and I walked out after three songs. The violin player I thought was great but I did notice that night the sound mixer was working hard at the sound control panel so that may have helped. The farewell performance was pretty good and funny, only spoiled by a loud member of the audience near by comparing with their last cruise and giving the game away as to how staged it was.

 

I am sure if we cruised again on another line we would find worse aspects and better aspects, thats the nature of life. All in all I liked the package that Carnival presents for what you pay. For us the port intensive cruise meant we got to see a lot of cities in the Med without having to pack and unpack every day. Coming back to the ship at the end of a shore day did really feel like coming home.

 

Now if they could only do something about access on the third deck from bow to stern, and find space for a few more laundries, then they would clear up jmost of the things that were annoying.

 

So from us a big thumbs up. We had a ball.

 

David

[DEcruiser1]

We have had enough time home to look back and put things into perspective.

 

If I had been asked this question on the last day I guess I would have been really negative. Stood in line to pursers desk for over an hour just to return an extension lead on the last night. Waited for a long time on the disembarkation day for our number to be called ( Red 5 - made own arrangements) and finally walked off at 9am to find our luggage at one end of the peir and the shuttle bus at the other end. Add some surly waiters in the open dining breakfast on the last day, bath robes removed during last day, and mini fridge locked during last day and I would have to say that the last half day and overnight made me feel pretty negative.

As opposed to that up until then we had an absolutely great time for a first cruise, a long 12 day one at that.

Food was superb, service from regular staff outstanding.

Inside stateroom was perfect for us, very comfortable and located just right.

Decor on the ship does tend to make you gasp on first boarding but you very quickly get used to it and do not notice it.

Facilities were great, we still had not tried out everything by the end of the cruise.

Some shore excursions were a bit marginal but they were our choice and not really something that Carnival has control over.

If there was anything that I did not like fully it would be the entertainment. John Heald did some good things and many people swear by him as a cruise director. I must admit to finding some of his staged humor just a bit monotomous and I am certain I will cop a lot of criticism for daring to be critical of John. The comedian/magician was great, split my sides laughing. The opera singer had a great voice but the sound mixer should have got of his chair for that one as I found the sound balance between the singer and the band terrrible and I walked out after three songs. The violin player I thought was great but I did notice that night the sound mixer was working hard at the sound control panel so that may have helped. The farewell performance was pretty good and funny, only spoiled by a loud member of the audience near by comparing with their last cruise and giving the game away as to how staged it was.

 

I am sure if we cruised again on another line we would find worse aspects and better aspects, thats the nature of life. All in all I liked the package that Carnival presents for what you pay. For us the port intensive cruise meant we got to see a lot of cities in the Med without having to pack and unpack every day. Coming back to the ship at the end of a shore day did really feel like coming home.

 

Now if they could only do something about access on the third deck from bow to stern, and find space for a few more laundries, then they would clear up jmost of the things that were annoying.

 

So from us a big thumbs up. We had a ball.

 

David

 

 

 

 

Dude, it's not just "good for what you pay." It is pretty standard. I've been on Carnival, RCCL, and NCL. Contrary to what many posts say, you get nothing more for the extra money that you pay on RCCL or NCL. Don't waste your money booking cruises with other lines "looking for the difference". If they have an itenerary that interests you, book it. If you just "want to try 'em", be my guest. In the end I suspect you'll end up comming back to Carnival because you'll find that you had just as good of a time with Carnival for, probably, a couple of hundred bucks less.

[Sailfish]

Dude, it's not just "good for what you pay." It is pretty standard. I've been on Carnival, RCCL, and NCL. Contrary to what many posts say, you get nothing more for the extra money that you pay on RCCL or NCL. Don't waste your money booking cruises with other lines "looking for the difference". If they have an itenerary that interests you, book it. If you just "want to try 'em", be my guest. In the end I suspect you'll end up comming back to Carnival because you'll find that you had just as good of a time with Carnival for, probably, a couple of hundred bucks less.

 

Depending on when you cruise, prices are about the same on most lines. I know, there is a big difference on some of Royal Caribbean's newer ships and Carnival's. And I also know that holidays and summer are peak seasons, so I tend to stay away. But when itineraries are about the same, I generally go with the cruise line that ends up being the better deal, and Carnival is not always the winner!

 

That being said, I also look at Princess and Celebrity and pay about the same. So, paying attention to off season pricing and specials, you really can cut a great deal regardless of cruise line. It's just a matter of what suits you the best. Carnival is great - no complaints what so ever. But do not fool yourself into thinking they are always going to be the cheapest.

 

We tend to go with the cruise line that best suits our needs - when doing a group, we always go with Carnival or Princess. When cruising just the two of us, it's Celebrity or Royal Caribbean. When it's with the kids, it's usually Royal Caribbean (as their kid's program for teens - we have boys - is better and more active). Celebrity is sedate, but the food and pampering are great. And you should know we always look for the best deal. You should also.

[Mrsg324]

I was concerned about sailing Carnival after being on 3 RC cruises. I prefer RC over Carnival based on the one Carnival cruise I've been on. I will said Carnival again. It was a good cruise. Some things were much better on RCI but not enough for me to say I'd never sail Carnival again. In fact I'm really wanting to try out Conquest.

[zippnby]

:o

My aunts said avoid Carnival because of the (and I cringe even mentioning this) food bourne illness issues from the past. I've heard that the food is horrible compared to the other lines, and here I read it is wonderful. I've heard that the ships are "cheap" and "garrish" and there is a reason why they cost less- you get what you pay for...?

The way to avoid this is to carry a small bottle of hand sanitzer with you. It has been about 2 years since we cruised carnival. We just took a cruise in july on the Crown Princess. On the crown they had hand sanitzer stations before you went into the buffets and as you walked into the dining room. It really worked out great.:)

 

If you like a lot of fun (sometimes crazy) then go with carnival. If you want a more relaxed vacation and want to be surrounded by older people then try princess.

[zippnby]

Also on princess, I really felt like they really nickled and dimed you. Pottery activity extra, seafood bar extra, ice cream EXTRA. I don't know about anybody else but I hate everytime I went to do something it was extra $$$

 

Another thing on my past carnival cruise, when we bought the soda cards the waiters in the buffets were always around getting you refills. On the princess cruise we ALWAYS had to hunt someone to even get our first drink nevermind refills.

 

Just my 2 cents

[sandravb79]

But will they go on Princess, Holland, Windjammer? If so, they are going on Carnival since Carnival owns them now. Along with many many other lines. I think RCCL, Celeberty, and Cunard are about the only one's not related to Carnival now.

 

From the Cunard website:

 

Cunard Line, one of the world's most recognised brand names with a classic British heritage, is operated by California-based Cunard Line Limited. Cunard Line Limited is a unit of Carnival Corporation (NYSE:CCL).

 

In addition to Cunard, Carnival Corporation & PLC also includes Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, Carnival Cruise Line, Seabourn Cruise line, Windstar Cruises, P&O Cruises, AIDA Cruises, Costa Cruises and Ocean Village

[sandravb79]

But will they go on Princess, Holland, Windjammer? If so, they are going on Carnival since Carnival owns them now. Along with many many other lines. I think RCCL, Celeberty, and Cunard are about the only one's not related to Carnival now.

 

From Cunard's website:

 

Cunard Line, one of the world's most recognised brand names with a classic British heritage, is operated by California-based Cunard Line Limited. Cunard Line Limited is a unit of Carnival Corporation (NYSE:CCL).

 

In addition to Cunard, Carnival Corporation & PLC also includes Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, Carnival Cruise Line, Seabourn Cruise line, Windstar Cruises, P&O Cruises, AIDA Cruises, Costa Cruises and Ocean Village

[WinnipegCruiser]

Wal-Mart is sued more and loses more employee based suits than any other retailer on a per store basis and it's more than unions. It's sexual discrimination, non-payment of overtime, and other wonderful violations. Don't compare them to Carnival. Wal-Mart and its lawyers favorite pasttime is trying not to get classes certified for class action suits. They lose most of them. Forcing employees to work "off the clock" is pretty bad and I hope they get killed on that one.

 

Not exactly true, however Walmart being the big "Target" does have it's share of issues.

 

Your "list" is incomplete if it does not include that Hispanic Magazine ranked Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. among the top 100 companies providing the most opportunities for Hispanics in 2004 and 2005. Or that Career and Disabled Magazine in 2004 recognized , Wal-Mart as one of the top companies for providing a positive working environment for people with disabilities. OR that Wal-Mart Canada was named the best retailer to work for in Canada by Report on Business Magazine in 2003 and 2004. OR that 2007, Working Mother magazine named Wal-Mart as a 2007 Best Company for Multicultural Women.

 

However this thread is about Negative things "heard", and your post is right on topic.

 

It is my opinion that neither Walmart (or Carnival) could become so successful and evil at the same time. It might work for a short time, but employees and the vacationing public always have a choice.

[hubofhockey]

Hate to tell you this, and i am a huge fan of Target merchandise, they work exactly like wal mart.. even worse

I witnessed some pretty bad employer/employee harrassment on a mentally impaired employee on more than one occassion and so much so i called the HQ

 

At least here on the island their reputation is becoming more known and liken to walmart

 

Statistics don't lie. Wal-Mart is sued more than Target and every other retail chain. Those statistics are not an accident and relate to business practices of that chain (Wal-Mart) that don't relate to Target. I won't suggest that Target is a company of angels. But Wal-Mart has established itself as the leader in its industry of getting sued for the way they treat employees.

 

As for Carnival, they compete with the other major cruiselines for employees. Most of the workers sign on for limited "hitches" and salaries and benefits are pretty similar among the lines. The cruiseline industry is different than the retail industry in that regard. I would be interested in seeing a comparison among cruiselines of space to passenger and employee to passenger. My experience on RCCL is that both ratios are superior to Carnival's. I also believe that RCCL spends more on its Lido Buffets than Carnival does on its own. I will cruise either line depending on what I am looking for in a particular cruise. But there are differences and they are noticeable.

[WinnipegCruiser]

Statistics don't lie. Wal-Mart is sued more than Target and every other retail chain. Those statistics are not an accident and relate to business practices of that chain (Wal-Mart) that don't relate to Target. I won't suggest that Target is a company of angels. But Wal-Mart has established itself as the leader in its industry of getting sued for the way they treat employees.

 

Well, You are in fact not quoting any real statistics, just gossip from websites. With more than 1.9 million employees and thousands of stores worldwide, I am sure there are a lot of people trying to dip into those deep pockets. Some are legitimate, and I am sure it is fair to say some are not. BUT if you want to say that you are using statistics, then provide a full source. In fact no one keeps a comprehensive list of all the nation's litigation. So it will be difficult to show that for the past 40 years Wal-Mart has been sued more than every other retain chain. Again, when you are that big, you are going to have bigger legal bills. I think that is safe.

 

It is not just opinion to say that Walmart is hated by this nations Unions.

The unions have a lot of reason to hate Walmart. It is my opinion that the reasons for that hate are not all about employees, and is certainly not all about what is good for consumers. Frankly it looks to me to be all about money.

 

 

IMO there has been a very effective smear job done, by the unions, on Walmart.

 

 

I am done on this subject, and I am going to let you have the last word now.

[ThePatientOne]

:o I am sorry to upset anyone who might be a loyal Carnival fan. I have been told by some people I know to avoid Carnival for "something better," like RC. I have been looking at cruises and have basically avoided looking at anything Carnival, and I am now rethinking my choice after reading through the boards. Seems like many of you LOVE Carnival. They are very reasonable, that's for sure- and I just wanted to ask your opinions.

 

My aunts said avoid Carnival because of the (and I cringe even mentioning this) food bourne illness issues from the past. I've heard that the food is horrible compared to the other lines, and here I read it is wonderful. I've heard that the ships are "cheap" and "garrish" and there is a reason why they cost less- you get what you pay for...?

 

This will be like a honeymoon for me and my wonderful husband, and I want him to have a blast (so he will want to cruise over and over again!!!) LOL- no, also just because I want us to have a grand time together. We are in our early 30s, no kids yet.

 

Inform me please!

 

 

I had to weigh in here on this one. First off, don't let the number of posts fool you.. I have been in here a while..

Carnival Cruise lines.. I took the Triumph last year.. Food was good to great, crew was average to pretty good.. (They did not like it when my entire party was "hot" at the 3 card poker table though) A few concerns found while I was aboard. The carpet in the below deck spaces, basically the halls was for lack of a better word, worn out. There was also a very bad smell of rotting garbage (?) in the elevator lobby just outside of the Paris dining room. This was not noticeable at first however as the cruise progressed it did get worse..

All in all, it is worth the price paid.. Fun was had by all, so I guess they earned their name as the "Fun Ships".

Our next cruise will be aboard RCCL though, I have yet to hear a bad thing about them and their ships... (Well nothing of major concern, everyone has minor complaints about everything:D )

 

As others have said, do your own research, prices, what is included, cabin tipping etc and then make up your own mind about who is right and who is full of it...

 

Good luck and enjoy your cruise...

[wizard-of-roz]

As you can see by my signature, we've done a lot of different lines.

Pick a "big" Carnival ship, not one of their smaller ones. Pick a "newer" ship (built after 2000), I know they do a lot of refurbishing even on the ones built before 2000.....but, they never get it all!

I have to tell you....you'll really have fun...Carnival doesn't leave out any "hoops or whistles!"

UPSIDE:

They have the BEST passenger talent shows and know how to involve everyone!

They have 24 hour ice cream.

They have crews who know how to make the most amazing towel animals and are extremely friendly and helpful.

They have decorations of lights/flowers and flare that you won't see on any other line. A bit gawdy but, it's not home...it's cruising!

They have good food, both in the dining rooms and in the buffet area. (Not as good as some but not as bad as others!)

They have wonderful programs for the kids.

They have amazing credentials at most ports (which means when everyone else has to anchor at sea, usually Carnival is at the dock-(this can vary but Carnival has pull, in the industry!)

They have great Casinos and have a party atmosphere into the "wee hours!" If you like people watching....Carnival is a buffet of people!

They have nightly parades around the dining room (some people hate this), I think it's fun!

They offer more variety when it comes to choices of drinks and food!

DOWNSIDE:

They are noiser.

They make announcements in the dining rooms/in the lounges and during dinner, that can become very annoying. (Dancing is one thing but blasting announcements is another!)

They can lose control of the myriad of children, on board. You may have to become your own police person.

They tend to have way more professional photography opportunities than any ship I've been on!

They tend to have long lines in different venues (doesn't move as smoothly, as it should.)

They have a problem with elevators....there are many but not all are working so, there's an over-crowding issue in them!

They have a "odor" problem on some of their ships (black water), on the lower levels.

I personally think you'll have a wonderful time. There's always something to do....they are always trying to engage you into one activity or another. You'll never be bored!

Have fun....don't try and look for the negative....believe me, you'll find it if you do....

[bcs819]

We haev sailed Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Princess. Carnival is our cruiseline of choice.

 

Here's a totally true story. In 2001, we booked the new Pride. In our enthusiasm, we invited everyone we knew to book it and sail with us. One set of friends called and asked if we would mind if they sailed. (I told them as long as they had their own cabin they were welcome). They booked the cabin next to us. Long story short, they were taking one big vacation before they set out on the long road to adoption/surrogacy/unknown. They never seemd to get as excited as we did about the cruise, so we weren't really sure why they decided to go.

 

Anyway, cruise finally arrives in summer 2002 and we have a good time. Everything goes well, and on the last night at dinner they tell us. "We have to confess. We almost cancelled. Everyone told us not to sail Carnival. Theu said it was trashy and a bunch of drunks and we were throwing our money away." They went on to tell us how glad they were they came and that they enjoyed their week on the Pride more than their honeymoon - at an expensive all-inclusive in St Lucia!

 

What are you looking for specifically and we can tell you better if you'll be happy on Carnival...

[Sandi149]

We haev sailed Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Princess. Carnival is our cruiseline of choice.

 

Here's a totally true story. In 2001, we booked the new Pride. In our enthusiasm, we invited everyone we knew to book it and sail with us. One set of friends called and asked if we would mind if they sailed. (I told them as long as they had their own cabin they were welcome). They booked the cabin next to us. Long story short, they were taking one big vacation before they set out on the long road to adoption/surrogacy/unknown. They never seemd to get as excited as we did about the cruise, so we weren't really sure why they decided to go.

 

Anyway, cruise finally arrives in summer 2002 and we have a good time. Everything goes well, and on the last night at dinner they tell us. "We have to confess. We almost cancelled. Everyone told us not to sail Carnival. Theu said it was trashy and a bunch of drunks and we were throwing our money away." They went on to tell us how glad they were they came and that they enjoyed their week on the Pride more than their honeymoon - at an expensive all-inclusive in St Lucia!

 

What are you looking for specifically and we can tell you better if you'll be happy on Carnival...

 

If people would just stop listening to other people, who most of the time have never even sailed Carnival, then I really don't think the cruiseline would get such a bad rap. I have been on two Carnival cruises and never saw anyone drunk. I also heard stories about people running up and down the halls during the middle of the night. Never experienced that either. I am a really light sleeper and I slept like a baby.:p

[S.S.Oceanlover]

We haev sailed Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Princess. Carnival is our cruiseline of choice.

 

Here's a totally true story. In 2001, we booked the new Pride. In our enthusiasm, we invited everyone we knew to book it and sail with us. One set of friends called and asked if we would mind if they sailed. (I told them as long as they had their own cabin they were welcome). They booked the cabin next to us. Long story short, they were taking one big vacation before they set out on the long road to adoption/surrogacy/unknown. They never seemd to get as excited as we did about the cruise, so we weren't really sure why they decided to go.

 

Anyway, cruise finally arrives in summer 2002 and we have a good time. Everything goes well, and on the last night at dinner they tell us. "We have to confess. We almost cancelled. Everyone told us not to sail Carnival. Theu said it was trashy and a bunch of drunks and we were throwing our money away." They went on to tell us how glad they were they came and that they enjoyed their week on the Pride more than their honeymoon - at an expensive all-inclusive in St Lucia!

 

What are you looking for specifically and we can tell you better if you'll be happy on Carnival...

 

Did you enjoy that cruise as well? I heard there were a lot of nice people on that cruise?:D

 

Bill

[bcs819]

Did you enjoy that cruise as well? I heard there were a lot of nice people on that cruise?:D

 

Bill

 

The people were ok. There was this crazy guy named Bill, he made up this website....

 

oh, wait! That was you!

 

So, here's another answer to the OP's post. Bill and I met briefly 2 or 3 times during that week on the Pride (and I think pre-cruise, too, didn't we Bill?) and 5 years later we are still chasing each other around the internet ;)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

The people were ok. There was this crazy guy named Bill, he made up this website....

 

oh, wait! That was you!

 

So, here's another answer to the OP's post. Bill and I met briefly 2 or 3 times during that week on the Pride (and I think pre-cruise, too, didn't we Bill?) and 5 years later we are still chasing each other around the internet ;)

 

Almost correct.:D I'm from Philly. I guess you'll never believe this but in about 3 weeks I'll be cruising on Disney for the 2nd time. Without any kids!!:eek:

 

Bill

[cruiser1220]

whether Carnival suits you, depends on a few things:

 

What ports of call you want to see. I've done the southern and eastern with both NCL and Carnival aboard quite a few ships and I love NCL for both. True, there was no Puerto Rico on the NCL ports of call, but there was the private island, time at St. John, St. Marteen, and St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. The southern carribean, I suggest NCL all the way. I enjoyed their ports of call on the route more than the ones Carnival had for the southern.

 

How many people you will be cruising with. Carnival, has spacious cabins, that fit the 4 or 5 members of a family and has better prices for groups.

 

The friendliness of the staff: If you like to play the onboard games, or like to do more than say hi, good morning/ evening to the waiter, maitre'd, and room people, then you need to consider this aspect. Most people don't care since they have their own plans. On the tendering to Belize, I had a horrible encounter with a social staff member all because of a misunderstanding between her and the CD. With Norwegian everyone is friendly, and listens to you.

 

However, the most important thing about a cruise is... what you make of it!!! Enjoy everyday and every aspect of the cruise! You're paying good money for a good vacation.