RCCL New Smoking Policy Discussion (merged)

[Nliedel]

I'm probably in the minority, but I've never been bothered by smoke onboard. I'm very sensitive to it and it's just not been an issue. However, for asthma sufferers this is a wonderful change.

[lkb125]

There is now a new policy that will be launched in 2008.

 

Check it out!

 

http://www.rclinvestor.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=103045&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1029186&highlight=

 

wonderful

[standby 06.30]

From the many threads that complain that cruise lines cannot or do not enforce rules very well, for whatever reason, take curfews as an example, who will enforce this and how?:confused: maybe they will deputise passengers who will roam the ships sniffing under cabin doors:cool: , or they could pay a bounty to the cabin crew:eek: , on the mainland it may be law, but at sea? I think we should be told;) . regards

[melsdt]

I would think that the difference in cancer deaths between 1930 and 2007 has more to do with the fact that we have better health care now and that it is easier to diagnose. I'm sure that there were a lot more deaths from cancer back then but they were never diagnosed as such. We have more specialized x-rays, better lab techniques, and more knowledgeable doctors that can perform amazing surgeries now to aid them with their diagnosis. Also, back in the 30's people did not go to the doctor as much as they do now.

 

And by the way, I don't care whether you make up your comments or not, I know what I experienced with my father-in-law. I try to avoid cigarette smoke whenever I see it, and I will try to avoid it on our cruise next year no matter what changes RCCL makes.

 

I am done with this dead horse!

 

People didn't live long enough to get cancer as well. Acute diseases killed people. We are now in the chronic disease era.

[boaterette]

In my humble opinion everyone who states that smokers are cruel heartless people for imposing their smoke on others and thereby contributing to horrible deaths from lung disease are hypocrits if they drive any type of vehicle that emits toxic fumes into the air. It is a proven fact that vehicle imissions cause lung cancer and other horrible lung diseases. You can state all you want that driving is a neccessity and that smoking isn't but the bottom line is that all drivers are contributing to lung cancer. You can also state that the government and companies are doing things to improve emmisions but the fact remains that you too are causing lung disease. So I really think people should get off their high horse and look at what they are doing to others health.

[NthernLgts]

After the dust settles, I don't see that a huge number of smokers will be avoiding RCI in the long term. And for the ones that do, there will be a number of non-smokers who will select RCI for their non-smoking cabin policy to balance out. I think this is a bigger deal here on CC in the short term because the announcement just came out than it will be in the industry for the long term. However, although I think that the number of bookings will not substantially decrease (or may even increase), I do agree there is a likelihood that the amount of money made off of gambling will decrease. I do think that smokers do tend to gamble more or actually, that amongst the gambling population, there is a larger percentage of smokers than in the general population.

 

However, I am not going to worry about the profitability. I am going to worry about supporting RCI like I support Marriott and other non-smoking businesses. It's the only really effective way I know to cast my vote...with my wallet.

 

Voting with our wallets is the best way to make a point. Having said that, you're alreadysupporting RCI with your wallet. There is little for RCI to gain from folks such as yourself. You have already shown via your bookings that youre not going to leave due to this issue. However, this policy will have little effect on bookings as it is largely window dressing that effects relatively few smokers. It is great PR for most of the non-smokers though. I do believe it is VERY wishful thinking to believe that new non-smoking cruisers will make up lost revenue from departed smokers. If that were the case there would have been substantial changes to virtually all cruise lines smoking policy decades ago, and there wouldnt be all this tip toeing around the issue.

[copnlpn2]

Just can't resist asking...

 

If there are Friends of Bill & Friends of Dorothy (& Friends of Henry), why not Friends of Winston(s)?:p

 

Happy cruising!

 

Cindy

[dc-snoopy]

Voting with our wallets is the best way to make a point. Having said that, you're alreadysupporting RCI with your wallet. There is little for RCI to gain from folks such as yourself. You have already shown via your bookings that youre not going to leave due to this issue. However, this policy will have little effect on bookings as it is largely window dressing that effects relatively few smokers. It is great PR for most of the non-smokers though. I do believe it is VERY wishful thinking to believe that new non-smoking cruisers will make up lost revenue from departed smokers. If that were the case there would have been substantial changes to virtually all cruise lines smoking policy decades ago, and there wouldnt be all this tip toeing around the issue.

 

Ummm...not quite. My first two cruises were RCI, but my most recent cruise was Carnival. The policy just ensures that I will be returning to RCI and unlikely to venture out to try other companies unless they also choose to switch. I had been considering trying out other lines like Princess, but unless they change their smoking policies, this will probably not happen now. It's just not worth the risk that my DW will miss part of the cruise dealing with allergy problems when we can get a non-smoking stateroom. Even if we have to decrease the amount of time that we spend on our balcony due to smoking neighbors, it will still be a win for us.

 

I also know several other couples that have been varying between which cruise line to choose, but will plan on gravitating towards RCI due to the policy. I've even heard people opine that this would be more significant to their vacation choices than cost alone (meaning they would be willing to spend more money for the cruise to enjoy a non-smoking cabin). This is the type of business that will compensate for the smokers who care about the policy.

 

Again, I reiterated that I don't think that the passenger load will decrease, but that I think that revenue from gambling may very well decrease. We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

[NthernLgts]

DC-whether you cruised with Carnival or RCI, the smoking policy has largely been the same, and they've still got you (same with me). I hear what youre saying regarding future considerations and you could be right, I just doubt it. As stated, I do not expect any big revenue change for RCI as this isnt a significant policy change as most smokers dont smoke in their cabins anyway. As you stated, ultimately the pocketbook will decide the issue.

[SomeBeach]

dc-snoopy, I don't think I understand your point about more people willing to pay more because of what RCI is doing with this policy. The policy on Azurmara (sp?) is limited and people cried that it was too expensive, they didn't want to pay *those* prices.

[DC2OC]

In my humble opinion everyone who states that smokers are cruel heartless people for imposing their smoke on others and thereby contributing to horrible deaths from lung disease are hypocrits if they drive any type of vehicle that emits toxic fumes into the air. It is a proven fact that vehicle imissions cause lung cancer and other horrible lung diseases. You can state all you want that driving is a neccessity and that smoking isn't but the bottom line is that all drivers are contributing to lung cancer. You can also state that the government and companies are doing things to improve emmisions but the fact remains that you too are causing lung disease. So I really think people should get off their high horse and look at what they are doing to others health.

 

 

What a bunch of crap-com'n admit it.You drive too.Its just been reported again and again that smoking is WORSE than living in any city.Its your right to smoke.Mine to avoid it.If that makes me a hypocrite,who cares,so what,whatever.Most smokers are good people,as with almost any group you can name

[TXSailor]

Oh, yeah. There's a good example. :rolleyes: There are no restrictions at all on driving cars, right? I don't know about where you live, but I am limited on where I'm allowed to drive my car (it's pretty much restricted to the roadways, which are almost exclusively outdoor, btw ;)), plus I have to have an inspection done every year to ensure my car and its emission control system are operating properly, plus I'm limited on how fast I can drive, what kinds of fuels I can use . . . and that doesn't even get into the regulations the manufacturer of my car had to follow in designing and building it.

 

I think you missed my whole point. Regardless of what guidelines the auto manufacturers go through, the bottom line is that most cars today, if not all, pollute our air. So non-smokers, go right on ahead and continue to pollute the air, while complaining about cigarette smoke.

 

 

Fausto

[DON M.]

What a bunch of crap-com'n admit it.You drive too.Its just been reported again and again that smoking is WORSE than living in any city.Its your right to smoke.Mine to avoid it.If that makes me a hypocrite,who cares,so what,whatever.Most smokers are good people,as with almost any group you can name

Toxicologist Prof Simon Wolff " There is no doubt that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer, but there is also nodoubthat air pollution from diesel, is a contributory factor, so important that without air pollution we would see a much lower rate of lung cancer than we have. In rural China, where people smoke very heavily and where air pollution is much less the differences in lung cancer rates between smokers and non-smokers is very small, and lung cancer rates are about 1/10 of the lung cancer rates in industrialised countries

I know this is also a bunch of crap and he was probably paid off by the Tobacco co.

[alcheme]

I think you missed my whole point. Regardless of what guidelines the auto manufacturers go through, the bottom line is that most cars today, if not all, pollute our air. So non-smokers, go right on ahead and continue to pollute the air, while complaining about cigarette smoke.

 

 

Fausto

 

It's still an idiotic point, and I didn't miss it at all. If we all had to be perfect, before we were allowed to complain about anything, there would never be any progress. People have complained about air pollution from cars and numerous things have been done to improve fuel efficiency and emission control. There's still work to be done there, too. If everyone took the moronic approach of, "You have no right to complain if you drive a car yourself," where would we be?

[DON M.]

What a bunch of crap-com'n admit it.You drive too.Its just been reported again and again that smoking is WORSE than living in any city.Its your right to smoke.Mine to avoid it.If that makes me a hypocrite,who cares,so what,whatever.Most smokers are good people,as with almost any group you can name[/quote

One the smokers favorite agencies (the EPA) claims there are 25,000 lung cancer deaths from RADON gas every year (3500 from second hand smoke). Its amazing how many poeple know of others who have died of second-hand smoke but knows of no one dying from Radon Gas. How you had your house tested recently?

[DC2OC]

Toxicologist Prof Simon Wolff " There is no doubt that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer, but there is also nodoubthat air pollution from diesel, is a contributory factor, so important that without air pollution we would see a much lower rate of lung cancer than we have. In rural China, where people smoke very heavily and where air pollution is much less the differences in lung cancer rates between smokers and non-smokers is very small, and lung cancer rates are about 1/10 of the lung cancer rates in industrialised countries

I know this is also a bunch of crap and he was probably paid off by the Tobacco co.

 

 

Actually China leads the world in smoking deaths.In the US smoking is the number one cause of lung disease per MSN.Like I said its your right to smoke,mine to avoid it.You can keep on Preaching the Phillip Morris party line.Its your right.Have fun y'all I'm bored with this.See ya next time

[Mark_K]

Actually China leads the world in smoking deaths.In the US smoking is the number one cause of lung disease per MSN.Like I said its your right to smoke,mine to avoid it.You can keep on Preaching the Phillip Morris party line.Its your right.Have fun y'all I'm bored with this.See ya next time

They got the most people, they should. But aside from that, the article quoted said "rural China" not China, generally. So the fact that China, overall, has a lot of deaths doesn't by itself invalidate the statement.

[Lizzydri]

I have read through most of these posts - have gotten angry and have had a few laughs. I, as an adult, able to make my own decisions, have decided that I want to smoke. My DH smokes and many of my relatives and friends smoke. We go out everyday to work hard and earn a living, we raise our children (and good kids at that - not trouble makers),we pay our taxes, we are law abiding citizens, we do volunteer work for our church and our community, and we are entitled to get away for vacation and relaxation just like everyone else. We pay the same fares as everyone else and should be able to enjoy our vacation like everyone else. Yet because we chose to smoke, we are given all sorts of hard times and extra rules, etc. I understand that for non-smokers, the odor and smoke may be bothersome and when confronted "politely", I have no problem either stepping away or extinguishing the cigarette all together. Unfortuately, most non-smokers and most reformed smokers are some of the rudest people living. They feel it is their duty to give us lectures, call us names, and just be downright mean.

Yes, research says that second hand smoke MAY cause health risks, but they are referring to a constant, daily, long term intake, not the 5 minutes that they are exposed in our presence. Another point I'd like to bring foward is that my mother, a long time smoker, died of Cancer - however, it WAS NOT caused by smoking as we were assured from very top notch cancer doctors and researchers in the country and she DID NOT develop lung cancer, throat cancer or any other smoking related cancer. My uncle who never smoked a day in his life, died of lung cancer. Unfortunately, most cancers are found to be genetic and it can pick on smokers and non-smokers alike. I am not defending smoking, and I discourage anyone from taking up the habit, but I don't drink, I don't do illegal drugs and until cigarettes are made to be an illegal substance (which it is not), many people are going to continue to smoke.

I know people with asthma who can not tolerate perfume, are we making a perfume ban - the perfume is harmful to their health. I know people who can not handle their liquor, are we eliminating alcohol - it is harmful to their health. Think of all the pollution and smoke at the piers from the ships - are we doing away with cruising? We purposely cruise WITHOUT our children, it is strictly an adult vacation for us, do I complain when I have to "deal" with your children - this is dangerous to my health. Someone commented earlier about pee in the pool not being harmful - I got news for you - it sure as heck is! It is full of bacteria and germs - does that mean no one is ever going to swim again, of course not, but it does exist.

The reason why RCCL is doing this in reaction to requests by the non-smokers is because they are the ones to contact them with complaints, but have they actually polled "all cruisers" smokers AND non-smokers. Carnival did and they found out that all the money they spent on their NON SMOKING cruise was not profitable. There ARE alot of smokers out there! Just because you are not one of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

I can see them offering smoking and non-smoking cabins as most hotels do, but to eliminate it completely, I think is unfair to those people who have paid the same fare to have the same relaxing vacation.

I know many of you reading this are full of opinions, both positive and negative, but face it, this is a sore subject on both sides of the fence and it seems like the smokers are always the ones who have to be the ones to conceed and make sacrifices. I am tired of all the judgemental people out there deciding what I can and can't do. Just because I smoke, am I a horrible person? I am actually a very nice person, who likes to have fun, make people laugh, and I will give you the shirt off my back if you needed it. I am a people person and like making new friends, I wish you would get to know me before you judge me, you might actually like me as a person if you would not label me as "the smoker."

[DON M.]

Actually China leads the world in smoking deaths.In the US smoking is the number one cause of lung disease per MSN.Like I said its your right to smoke,mine to avoid it.You can keep on Preaching the Phillip Morris party line.Its your right.Have fun y'all I'm bored with this.See ya next time

I guess you have to go to get your house tested for Radon. You believe only your studies you read and follow like sheep.

[pdx4me]

We just returned from a 10-day northern Europe cruise and had a large balcony which we almost NEVER used because of a cigar-smoker just below us. We couldn't even leave our balcony door open! I'd like to see all cruise lines adopt this policy.

 

Linda

[Mark_K]

We just returned from a 10-day northern Europe cruise and had a large balcony which we almost NEVER used because of a cigar-smoker just below us. We couldn't even leave our balcony door open! I'd like to see all cruise lines adopt this policy.

Linda

You're not supposed to leave balcony doors open. But anyway, the new policy prohibits smoking in cabins, but allows it on balconies, so it wouldn't have helped you.

[DON M.]

I have read through most of these posts - have gotten angry and have had a few laughs. I, as an adult, able to make my own decisions, have decided that I want to smoke. My DH smokes and many of my relatives and friends smoke. We go out everyday to work hard and earn a living, we raise our children (and good kids at that - not trouble makers),we pay our taxes, we are law abiding citizens, we do volunteer work for our church and our community, and we are entitled to get away for vacation and relaxation just like everyone else. We pay the same fares as everyone else and should be able to enjoy our vacation like everyone else. Yet because we chose to smoke, we are given all sorts of hard times and extra rules, etc. I understand that for non-smokers, the odor and smoke may be bothersome and when confronted "politely", I have no problem either stepping away or extinguishing the cigarette all together. Unfortuately, most non-smokers and most reformed smokers are some of the rudest people living. They feel it is their duty to give us lectures, call us names, and just be downright mean.

Yes, research says that second hand smoke MAY cause health risks, but they are referring to a constant, daily, long term intake, not the 5 minutes that they are exposed in our presence. Another point I'd like to bring foward is that my mother, a long time smoker, died of Cancer - however, it WAS NOT caused by smoking as we were assured from very top notch cancer doctors and researchers in the country and she DID NOT develop lung cancer, throat cancer or any other smoking related cancer. My uncle who never smoked a day in his life, died of lung cancer. Unfortunately, most cancers are found to be genetic and it can pick on smokers and non-smokers alike. I am not defending smoking, and I discourage anyone from taking up the habit, but I don't drink, I don't do illegal drugs and until cigarettes are made to be an illegal substance (which it is not), many people are going to continue to smoke.

I know people with asthma who can not tolerate perfume, are we making a perfume ban - the perfume is harmful to their health. I know people who can not handle their liquor, are we eliminating alcohol - it is harmful to their health. Think of all the pollution and smoke at the piers from the ships - are we doing away with cruising? We purposely cruise WITHOUT our children, it is strictly an adult vacation for us, do I complain when I have to "deal" with your children - this is dangerous to my health. Someone commented earlier about pee in the pool not being harmful - I got news for you - it sure as heck is! It is full of bacteria and germs - does that mean no one is ever going to swim again, of course not, but it does exist.

The reason why RCCL is doing this in reaction to requests by the non-smokers is because they are the ones to contact them with complaints, but have they actually polled "all cruisers" smokers AND non-smokers. Carnival did and they found out that all the money they spent on their NON SMOKING cruise was not profitable. There ARE alot of smokers out there! Just because you are not one of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

I can see them offering smoking and non-smoking cabins as most hotels do, but to eliminate it completely, I think is unfair to those people who have paid the same fare to have the same relaxing vacation.

I know many of you reading this are full of opinions, both positive and negative, but face it, this is a sore subject on both sides of the fence and it seems like the smokers are always the ones who have to be the ones to conceed and make sacrifices. I am tired of all the judgemental people out there deciding what I can and can't do. Just because I smoke, am I a horrible person? I am actually a very nice person, who likes to have fun, make people laugh, and I will give you the shirt off my back if you needed it. I am a people person and like making new friends, I wish you would get to know me before you judge me, you might actually like me as a person if you would not label me as "the smoker."[/quote

Very well written and stated. After the Surgeon General report, all of the non smokers said " now they can kill themselves if they want it does not effect me". Right after that, just a coincidence, all of the second-hand smoke studies surfaced, where were these sudies before that? Wasn't there a American Cancer Society and other health organizations?

[bluejeans]

We just returned from a 10-day northern Europe cruise and had a large balcony which we almost NEVER used because of a cigar-smoker just below us. We couldn't even leave our balcony door open! I'd like to see all cruise lines adopt this policy.

 

Linda

 

The balcony is where they are putting smokers starting in Jan 08, so ya might have to go elsewhere. Not our choice.

 

Doubt that all cruise lines will adopt that policy, maybe on a few ships, but most likely not an entire fleet.

[ShedQueen77]

I have read through most of these posts - have gotten angry and have had a few laughs. I, as an adult, able to make my own decisions, have decided that I want to smoke. My DH smokes and many of my relatives and friends smoke. We go out everyday to work hard and earn a living, we raise our children (and good kids at that - not trouble makers),we pay our taxes, we are law abiding citizens, we do volunteer work for our church and our community, and we are entitled to get away for vacation and relaxation just like everyone else. We pay the same fares as everyone else and should be able to enjoy our vacation like everyone else. Yet because we chose to smoke, we are given all sorts of hard times and extra rules, etc. I understand that for non-smokers, the odor and smoke may be bothersome and when confronted "politely", I have no problem either stepping away or extinguishing the cigarette all together. Unfortuately, most non-smokers and most reformed smokers are some of the rudest people living. They feel it is their duty to give us lectures, call us names, and just be downright mean.

Yes, research says that second hand smoke MAY cause health risks, but they are referring to a constant, daily, long term intake, not the 5 minutes that they are exposed in our presence. Another point I'd like to bring foward is that my mother, a long time smoker, died of Cancer - however, it WAS NOT caused by smoking as we were assured from very top notch cancer doctors and researchers in the country and she DID NOT develop lung cancer, throat cancer or any other smoking related cancer. My uncle who never smoked a day in his life, died of lung cancer. Unfortunately, most cancers are found to be genetic and it can pick on smokers and non-smokers alike. I am not defending smoking, and I discourage anyone from taking up the habit, but I don't drink, I don't do illegal drugs and until cigarettes are made to be an illegal substance (which it is not), many people are going to continue to smoke.

I know people with asthma who can not tolerate perfume, are we making a perfume ban - the perfume is harmful to their health. I know people who can not handle their liquor, are we eliminating alcohol - it is harmful to their health. Think of all the pollution and smoke at the piers from the ships - are we doing away with cruising? We purposely cruise WITHOUT our children, it is strictly an adult vacation for us, do I complain when I have to "deal" with your children - this is dangerous to my health. Someone commented earlier about pee in the pool not being harmful - I got news for you - it sure as heck is! It is full of bacteria and germs - does that mean no one is ever going to swim again, of course not, but it does exist.

The reason why RCCL is doing this in reaction to requests by the non-smokers is because they are the ones to contact them with complaints, but have they actually polled "all cruisers" smokers AND non-smokers. Carnival did and they found out that all the money they spent on their NON SMOKING cruise was not profitable. There ARE alot of smokers out there! Just because you are not one of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

I can see them offering smoking and non-smoking cabins as most hotels do, but to eliminate it completely, I think is unfair to those people who have paid the same fare to have the same relaxing vacation.

I know many of you reading this are full of opinions, both positive and negative, but face it, this is a sore subject on both sides of the fence and it seems like the smokers are always the ones who have to be the ones to conceed and make sacrifices. I am tired of all the judgemental people out there deciding what I can and can't do. Just because I smoke, am I a horrible person? I am actually a very nice person, who likes to have fun, make people laugh, and I will give you the shirt off my back if you needed it. I am a people person and like making new friends, I wish you would get to know me before you judge me, you might actually like me as a person if you would not label me as "the smoker."

 

Very nice post and well put. Thank you for sharing your view. I agree with you 100%. I'd welcome you to have a smoke on my balcony anytime! ;)

 

My maternal grandfather, who never smoked a day in his life nor did anyone in his home, died of lung cancer. My paternal grandmother, who was a smoker for 40 years, died of pancreatic cancer. Cancer is a devastating disease with seemingly no rhyme or reason. Just when you think you understand it, less than "normal" reasons confuse you even more. I do know that cancer is a mutation of the genes, but as for what causes those mutations....I hope and pray that the answers are found.

 

I'm sorry your family (and all of those here who have stated they have as well) has had to deal with it as well.

[Merion_Mom]

If you were an *ethical* science professional, and a real scientist, you would be appalled at a study that ignored 2/3s of the data, then doubled the margin of error, then doubled *that* number, to come up with 3,000 imaginary deaths in a population of 300 million people. The EPA report was rejected by a Federal Judge because it manipulated data.

http://www.heartland.org/archives/environment/sep98/smoke.htm

Bottom line is that the Federal Court's intervention came too late. The damage was done.

 

Here is a detailed look at three of the major SHS studies. The first, the EPA 1993 report, http://www.davehitt.com/facts/epa.html is the basis for most of the SHS legislation and restrictions in the US. Once you see exactly what they did, and how they did it, you may never trust the EPA again. The second study, http://www.davehitt.com/facts/who.html carefully conducted by the World Health Organization, had some very surprising results. There are also two pages on the Helena http://www.davehitt.com/facts/helena.html study, including a look at the authors own chart. It provides a good example of the dishonesty and outright fraud practiced by the anti-smoker movement.

 

The Heartland Institute is a front for the tobacco and oil industries in the guise of an "environmental" group. THEIR agenda is preservation of business and profits at the EXPENSE of the environment, not the protection of the environment.