Two-class System on Ships?

[SantaAna,CA]

[b]Host Doug:[/b] [i]First, second, third. No steerage. Third class had cabins, steerage had dormitories. On TITANIC all pax had the luxury of cabins, with a maximum of four berths per cabin even in third class![/i]

Doug...check out internet web sites about classes on the Titanic; steerage was just another term for third class on that particular ship.

:) Just FYI

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='SantaAna,CA']Doug...check out internet web sites about classes on the Titanic; steerage was just another term for third class on that particular ship.[/QUOTE]
Then it was incorrectly used.

The official term for third class on TITANIC was most definitely third class, and not steerage.

"Steerage" is being used incorrectly any time it refers to a class where passengers are being accomodated in cabins. Its usage in reference to TITANIC is very common, but incorrect... Even if it is on web sites about TITANIC that does not mean that it is correct.

[JDee]

From good old Webster: "a section of a passenger ship for passengers paying the lowest fares and given inferior accomodations".

And this one from a very old Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedic Dictionary:

1. Formerly, the part of an ocean passenger vessel in the forward lower decks.

2. Any markedly inferior, overcrowded, [b]third-class[/b] accomodations.

=============

It ain't a suite, that's for sure....

Happy cruising....

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='JDee']From good old Webster: "a section of a passenger ship for passengers paying the lowest fares and given inferior accomodations".[/QUOTE]
Well, by that definition, the least expensive suite on SILVER WHISPER is steerage since its occupants pay the lowest fares and their accomodation is inferior to the other suites that are more expensive ;) .

Funk & Wagnall's are really off the mark with their "forward and lower decks" definition. Steerage was often located forward and on a lower deck, however the original name "steerage" originates from the fact that this accomodation was located above the rudder, or "steerage", which is of course located [i]aft[/i] and on a lower deck! But the "third-class" definition is without a doubt the worst and most misinformed of all, since plenty of ships had at least four classes of accomodation. Thus, if steerage equals third class, then there was obviously something [i]below[/i] steerage, and I have never heard of any instance in which steerage was not, in fact, the worst passenger accomodation on the ship, though the worst passenger accomodation on a ship is not necessarily steerage.

Incidentally, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, which I generally consult on such matters, steerage is:

"The part of a passenger ship allotted to those passengers who travel at the cheapest rate."

Personally I disagree with this on the same grounds as I do with the Webster definition.

At any case, according to the OED, not only did TITANIC have steerage, so has every passenger ship, ever, seeing as they've all had a least expensive accomodation. (If a ship only had one cabin, this would mean that that cabin is steerage since technically it is the space alloted to the passengers paying the lowest fare!) So in this case I will disagree with the OED. Steerage may be generally used to describe the cheapest accomodation in a passenger ship, but that is not a correct usage... It depends on just what sort of accomodation that is. TITANIC's third-class accomodation was not steerage, IMHO.

[trubey]

Alright, already, Doug!

I want steerage! Who would want to sit in a hotel room, no matter how glorified and expensive when you have the whole, huge ship (except one room where you get free hors d'ouerves, I guess) pretty much at your disposal?


Lane :p

[SantaAna,CA]

[quote name='Host Doug']Then it was incorrectly used.

The official term for third class on TITANIC was most definitely third class, and not steerage.

"Steerage" is being used incorrectly any time it refers to a class where passengers are being accomodated in cabins. Its usage in reference to TITANIC is very common, but incorrect... Even if it is on web sites about TITANIC that does not mean that it is correct.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Doug...very interesting, I didn't know that! :)

[JMB]

My humble opinion on this, as a non-suite cruiser except once on Zaandam:
Since suite cruisers pay extra normally for their accommodations, I think they have every right to expect extra "perks" for their money. Fancy pillows, butler service, fresh fruit bowls, welcome aboard booze, etc. are extras to which those willing to spring for a suite should be entitled. I don't think that such amenities which are tied to the room itself do anything to create a "class system" on the ship. Where I have a problem would be with those perks that
would put the suite passenger ahead of other passengers in areas outside of the suite, such as priority boarding, priority on shore excursions, priority reservations at specialty restaurants, priority seating at shows, etc. Extras such as these would definitely contribute to a class system cruise line which I would try to avoid.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='trubey']Alright, already, Doug!

I want steerage! Who would want to sit in a hotel room, no matter how glorified and expensive when you have the whole, huge ship (except one room where you get free hors d'ouerves, I guess) pretty much at your disposal?


Lane :p[/QUOTE]


[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Lane, I know what you are saying but for some of us, we do spend a considerable amount of time in our cabins and on our verandas. We do not always want to be out and about. We relish the quiet; the beauty of watching the ocean from the comfort and convenience of our own comfortable cabin. If one plans to use their cabin for more than just sleeping, showering and dressing, the room itself matters......at least it does to us.[/font][/b]
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[b][font=Comic Sans MS]We love having our breakfast on our veranda. I love quiet time reading on my veranda or in the privacy of our cabin. We enjoy having the comfortable choice of how much activity and socialization we want and how much privacy and quiet we are in the mood for.[/font][/b]
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[b][font=Comic Sans MS]But my DH is not yet retired. He has a very busy professional life and his vacations are for his comfort, rest and enjoyment in the form he likes best.[/font][/b]
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[SDHALFAN]

Hi S-7-S,

I wonder if you know just exactly how much you are paying extra for what you consider to be "perks"?

I, too, enjoy the quiet of my own stateroom. I am not "a suitey", obviously, and have no verandah but I do have a large window, and since I am now a "singleton" I pay 150% of the going rate (or more on some cruises) in order to enjoy that quiet time and to the have privacy I cherish.

I never did understand why "the suiteys" thought it was such a big deal to be able to eat breakfast or lunch in a private room. Me, I prefer to order my breakfast from Room Service. I greet the Room Service Steward with a "Selamat Pagi", slip him a couple of dollars and totally enjoy my breakfast in private before I have to face the world. When my husband was alive we always used to eat Lunch in the Dining Room but now I find that I prefer to eat lunch, at 11:30 a.m. (I'm an early to bed and an early to rise individual) in The Lido, sitting outside and watching the motion in the ocean, or alternatively watching my fellow passengers just having fun.

As far as Priority Boarding goes - nowadays HAL usually starts boarding at 11:30 a.m. or so. I show up around 2:30 p.m. and talk about priority - I'm through the terminal and in my cabin in about 20 minutes.

As far as the fancy Captains' parties go - I don't like all the cocktail party stuff anyway - too many years married to a Naval Officer and having to go to all those "Hail and Farewell Parties" or those fancy "Navy Balls". Getting all dressed up, at least once every other month or so, especially with killer high heels, and enough is enough already! The Embassy parties were the worst - talk about trying to have a conversation with someone when you barely knew even a half dozen words in his language and he was equally bad in yours. Oh, and yes, those high heels were really beginning to feel like torture. I avoid the "Formal Nights" as much as I can without offending my fellow passengers. I will either eat in my stateroom or get dressed up - show up for an hour or so, and then hightail it back to the stateroom where I'll get into my p.j.'s and watch a movie on T.V. and early to bed the better to face tomorrow:D

I am glad that you enjoy what you consider to be "perks" and are willing to pay for them but I just honestly don't understand why you think that they are so important. But, God bless you, as long as you are willing to pay a little bit extra then it probably means that we lesser mortals will have to pay a little bit less for what basically boils down to the same cruise.:)

Sorry Host Doug, but I always refer to my stateroom as being in "the low rent district" - or "steerage". Obviously it doesn't bother me one whit - I'm on the ship to have fun and relax and I don't feel the need to impress anyone whatsoever. Truth be known, I'm way to old to worry about what anyone thinks of me;)

[dakrewser]

[quote name='SDHALFAN']I am glad that you enjoy what you consider to be "perks" and are willing to pay for them but I just honestly don't understand why you think that they are so important. But, God bless you, as long as you are willing to pay a little bit extra then it probably means that we lesser mortals will have to pay a little bit less for what basically boils down to the same cruise.:)

Sorry Host Doug, but I always refer to my stateroom as being in "the low rent district" - or "steerage". Obviously it doesn't bother me one whit - I'm on the ship to have fun and relax and I don't feel the need to impress anyone whatsoever. Truth be known, I'm way to old to worry about what anyone thinks of me;)[/QUOTE]

I don't feel the need to impress anyone, either - but you seem to be trying to with a touch of "reverse snobbery". I do prefer the larger cabin size and larger verandah size of an S category cabin. I do prefer to relax in the more intimate setting of the Neptune lounge rather than in a corner of the Lido. I am willing to pay for that. Since our available time to cruise each year is limited, why should we stint (as we perceive it) on the comfort we want?

If we had more time available to us then we might decide to cruise more frequently in a lesser priced category, but maybe not.

[ryansmemom]

[quote name='SDHALFAN']Hi S-7-S,

I wonder if you know just exactly how much you are paying extra for what you consider to be "perks"?

I, too, enjoy the quiet of my own stateroom. I am not "a suitey", obviously, and have no verandah but I do have a large window, and since I am now a "singleton" I pay 150% of the going rate (or more on some cruises) in order to enjoy that quiet time and to the have privacy I cherish.

I never did understand why "the suiteys" thought it was such a big deal to be able to eat breakfast or lunch in a private room. Me, I prefer to order my breakfast from Room Service. I greet the Room Service Steward with a "Selamat Pagi", slip him a couple of dollars and totally enjoy my breakfast in private before I have to face the world. When my husband was alive we always used to eat Lunch in the Dining Room but now I find that I prefer to eat lunch, at 11:30 a.m. (I'm an early to bed and an early to rise individual) in The Lido, sitting outside and watching the motion in the ocean, or alternatively watching my fellow passengers just having fun.

As far as Priority Boarding goes - nowadays HAL usually starts boarding at 11:30 a.m. or so. I show up around 2:30 p.m. and talk about priority - I'm through the terminal and in my cabin in about 20 minutes.

As far as the fancy Captains' parties go - I don't like all the cocktail party stuff anyway - too many years married to a Naval Officer and having to go to all those "Hail and Farewell Parties" or those fancy "Navy Balls". Getting all dressed up, at least once every other month or so, especially with killer high heels, and enough is enough already! The Embassy parties were the worst - talk about trying to have a conversation with someone when you barely knew even a half dozen words in his language and he was equally bad in yours. Oh, and yes, those high heels were really beginning to feel like torture. I avoid the "Formal Nights" as much as I can without offending my fellow passengers. I will either eat in my stateroom or get dressed up - show up for an hour or so, and then hightail it back to the stateroom where I'll get into my p.j.'s and watch a movie on T.V. and early to bed the better to face tomorrow:D

I am glad that you enjoy what you consider to be "perks" and are willing to pay for them but I just honestly don't understand why you think that they are so important. But, God bless you, as long as you are willing to pay a little bit extra then it probably means that we lesser mortals will have to pay a little bit less for what basically boils down to the same cruise.:)

Sorry Host Doug, but I always refer to my stateroom as being in "the low rent district" - or "steerage". Obviously it doesn't bother me one whit - I'm on the ship to have fun and relax and I don't feel the need to impress anyone whatsoever. Truth be known, I'm way to old to worry about what anyone thinks of me;)[/QUOTE]


First of all, I want to say, I am happy that you have everything you want on your cruise. However, people are different and want different things. What may seem like a waste of money or time to one person is valuable to another. For us, it is not really the same cruise, and we are willing to pay the difference.

Many of us, myself included, feel that formal evenings are an important part of the cruise experience. It is one of the more pleasurable experiences and we enjoy the evenings. We plan for them, shop for our clothing and jewelry. We enjoy the ambience and would not consider sailing on a ship that did not offer this experience as part of the cruise. We really do want to participate fully in these evenings and look forward to them and to being with others who also enjoy the experience. My husband and I are taking longer cruises these days partly because there are more formal nights on these cruises.

As far as booking a suite. Speaking for myself. I enjoy the large room, with a large veranda. I am mobility challenged and suffer from chronic pain. I spend a lot of time in my suite. I enjoy the convienence of the space, indoors and out. I can sit out and enjoy the sea easily. I don't have to walk very far to get outside. I utilize the services of the concierge and do not have to stand in line waiting for the front desk or shore excursion personnel. Priority tendering, does not mean I get on a tender soon (as far as I am concerned, I am not an early riser)as much as it saves me the trip to the lounge which is difficult for me. Most of the "perks" do just that, save me steps or save me trips to certain places. Since I am limited in stamina and mobility and ability to stand for more than a short time, these "perks" are valuable to me. They actually "normalize" the world for me and make my experience more pleasurable in a very personal way. It's not snobbery, it's physical comfort.

My point is, we all have our own priorities. We all have our own reasons for deciding what is valuable and what is not. We all have the right to decide how to spend our money. It is not fair to judge people based solely on their observed behavior. It is also not fair for people to suggest that an option be eliminated just because it does not appeal to them.

I am also not interested in impressing anyone. I am interested in having the best cruise I can. I am interested in enjoying myself, relaxing and having my own brand of fun. Booking a suite and getting all dressed up for formal night are two of the ways I guarentee I will have the experience I desire.

Linda :)

[sail7seas]

[quote]I am glad that you enjoy what you consider to be "perks" and are willing to pay for them but I just honestly don't understand why you think that they are so important. But, God bless you, as long as you are willing to pay a little bit extra then it probably means that we lesser mortals will have to pay a little bit less for what basically boils down to the same cruise.:)[/quote]


[font=Comic Sans MS][b]Thank you for your wonderful description of what you enjoy and do not enjoy on your cruises. For what you are willing to buy and what is not worth it to you.[/b][/font]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Gratefully, we also have the choice to buy what it is that we think worth it and to not buy that which we do not think worth it.[/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]I think my major comment in reference to your quote "[i]I am glad that you enjoy what you consider to be "perks' and are ....." is:[/i][/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=3]NO, that is not what I think. [size=2]I do [/size][size=3]NOT [/size][size=2]consider anything we receive that accrues to our having a suite on HAL to be 'perks'. We consider the extra amenities to be items included in the price we have paid for a more costly accomodation. They, IMO, are Not Perks. We have purchased 'included' laundry and dry cleaning. We have purchased priority tender tickets; we have purchased the monogramed stationary etc The purchase price of these items along with the larger cabin are worth it to us. That is all that matters To Us. If it isn't right for someone else; GREAT!! No problem. But on the other side of the coin, if an Inside Cabin is not right for us, why should we book it? If a Suite is not right for someone else, why should they book it?[/size][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]What is the best of all is that you can buy what you wish and we can buy what we wish and thankfully, we do not HAVE to be accountable for our choices.[/font][/b]


[b][font=Comic Sans MS]As to your statement of 'what basically boils down to the same cruise' is not totally true for us. It would not be the 'same cruise' for us if we did not enjoy the extra comforts we have bought for ourselves. We 'bought' the use of a Concierge because neither of us want to handle details on our vacation. She can do the detail things we don't want to do. Clearly buying these things mean enough to us that we continue, time and again, to purchase them. I have health issues and my comfort matters. Even before I had those health issues, our comfort was worth extra costs. DH works outrageously hard in his career. When he is away, he wants all the comfort he can get. I always say I want to be at least a comfortable as I am at home, or why should I leave my home.[/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Others don't care and I fully understand it. I am not one who would enjoy camping or trudging through the jungles and roughing in on an 'extreme adventure' vacation. I don't have to apologize for what gives me pleasure as long as it does not impose upon anyone else's ability to enjoy, that is all that is relevant IMO[/font][/b]


[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Hope all your future cruises are perfect in the ways that matter to you.[/font][/b]

[1stMate]

Cruises should cost more, thus eliminating the lower social classes and the retirees:rolleyes:

[dakrewser]

[quote name='1stMate']Cruises should cost more, thus eliminating the lower social classes and the retirees:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Status and money are not always equivalent.

[ryansmemom]

[quote name='sail7seas'][font=Comic Sans MS][b]Thank you for your wonderful description of what you enjoy and do not enjoy on your cruises. For what you are willing to buy and what is not worth it to you.[/b][/font]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Gratefully, we also have the choice to buy what it is that we think worth it and to not buy that which we do not think worth it.[/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]I think my major comment in reference to your quote "[i]I am glad that you enjoy what you consider to be "perks' and are ....." is:[/i][/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS][size=3]NO, that is not what I think. [size=2]I do [/size][size=3]NOT [/size][size=2]consider anything we receive that accrues to our having a suite on HAL to be 'perks'. We consider the extra amenities to be items included in the price we have paid for a more costly accomodation. They, IMO, are Not Perks. We have purchased 'included' laundry and dry cleaning. We have purchased priority tender tickets; we have purchased the monogramed stationary etc The purchase price of these items along with the larger cabin are worth it to us. That is all that matters To Us. If it isn't right for someone else; GREAT!! No problem. But on the other side of the coin, if an Inside Cabin is not right for us, why should we book it? If a Suite is not right for someone else, why should they book it?[/size][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]What is the best of all is that you can buy what you wish and we can buy what we wish and thankfully, we do not HAVE to be accountable for our choices.[/font][/b]


[b][font=Comic Sans MS]As to your statement of 'what basically boils down to the same cruise' is not totally true for us. It would not be the 'same cruise' for us if we did not enjoy the extra comforts we have bought for ourselves. We 'bought' the use of a Concierge because neither of us want to handle details on our vacation. She can do the detail things we don't want to do. Clearly buying these things mean enough to us that we continue, time and again, to purchase them. I have health issues and my comfort matters. Even before I had those health issues, our comfort was worth extra costs. DH works outrageously hard in his career. When he is away, he wants all the comfort he can get. I always say I want to be at least a comfortable as I am at home, or why should I leave my home.[/font][/b]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Others don't care and I fully understand it. I am not one who would enjoy camping or trudging through the jungles and roughing in on an 'extreme adventure' vacation. I don't have to apologize for what gives me pleasure as long as it does not impose upon anyone else's ability to enjoy, that is all that is relevant IMO[/font][/b]


[b][font=Comic Sans MS]Hope all your future cruises are perfect in the ways that matter to you.[/font][/b][/QUOTE]


I for one, am getting tired of feeling that I need to appologize for purchasing the amenities that make my cruise enjoyable for me. When I submitted my last post, it was very late at night and I was half asleep. I read the post that I was responding to and I felt compelled to answer because I was feeling defensive again.

I do not understand (and that is saying a lot, I'm a shrink and I'm trained to understand) why others have so much difficulty allowing others to enjoy what they find pleasurable and meaningful if they do not enjoy those same things. Especially if those things are not harmful to others and are being paid for by the people who are utilizing them. Perhaps it is as Dakrewser says, "reverse snobbery" of some sort.

I for one do not object to anyone enjoying the things that others enjoy that I do not. Sail, you and I are alike in that we do not enjoy the more athletic activities on a cruise, or any other vacation. No jungle safaris for me. Yet neither of us have ever suggested that these activities should be eliminated or that those who participate in them are some how snubbing everyone else. I also do not think it matters whether or not we are having "basically the same cruise." Frankly I doubt it. I don't think it is a matter of where we live either. There are many diverse activities and many styles. We also have different attidudes. Just read the reviews on this board. sometimes it is hard to believe that two people reviewing the same cruise had actually been on the same ship at the same time.

I [B]purchase[/B] a suite to live in for the duration of my cruise. Along with that I [B]purchase[/B] certain amenities. They are all important to me. I enjoy them. They make or break my cruise for me. I do not want to cruise without them. I can afford them. I am not a snob. I enjoy being with people regardless of where they live and will share whatever amenities I am able to share with them. People who know me will attest to this.

Just like the people who choose to spend their money on inside, outside or verandah cabins, I have the right to spend [B]my money[/B] as I choose. I have the right to the cruise that is the most pleasurable and satisfactory to me. No one has the right to judge me for it.

End of Rant

Linda

[sail7seas]

[b][font=Comic Sans MS][/font][/b][b]THANK YOU, Linda.[/b]

[b]Your posts are always so to the point and so well stated. I always look forward to reading what you have written. (I think of your posts as getting for free a professional view of the subject matter at hand....and always offer something to think about.)[/b]

[SDHALFAN]

Well said Dave!

[lknick]

[quote name='1stMate']Cruises should cost more, thus eliminating the lower social classes and the retirees:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]It is the retirees who control most of the wealth in the US...at least according to the census.

[dakrewser]

[quote name='SDHALFAN']Well said Dave![/QUOTE]

But my pithy little aphorism in no way implies any agreement with your rant about suites and suite passengers. Some people always choose to sail in suites, some always choose to cruise in inside cabins. Neither choice in any way implies the social standing, wealth or intellectual ability of the person so choosing.

[SDHALFAN]

Oops, Sorry Dave,

I didn't mean to infer that you were in agreement with my "rant". In fact, I didn't even realise that I was "ranting" - I'll have to go back and read my post. I thought that I was just expressing an opinion but the hour was late and maybe I did go off on a rant. Darn, I hate when people do that! However, I do still agree with your "pithy little aphorism".

To be perfectly honest with you, I couldn't care less where other people choose to enjoy their cruise - that's their business and their choice and God knows they are entitled to it and I certainly don't lose any sleep over the fact that I choose to conserve my money and opt for an outside cabin, even if it is on a lower deck. I could probably save money on an inside and take another cruise, but darn it I like that window.

Now, once again to be perfectly honest, I never thought that I would end up agreeing with lknick about anything but I think he may be right about the fact that the retirees control most of the wealth (well I'd say a lot of it anyway) in the U.S. I also think that 1st Mate was just throwing in his/her two cents to get a little something going here.

I don't mean to offend anyone here, I'm just exercising my right to Freedom of Speech (as guaranteed by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution).

Best wishes to all of you. Have a wonderful cruise be it in the Penthouse Suite or in an inside cabin. I know that whatever you choose the cruise is the thing that matters and not where your "address" is. Moi, I'm looking forward to Christmas and New Year's aboard the Amsterdam to Hawaii.

Fair winds and following seas to all.

[SDHALFAN]

Sorry, double-post again and Lord knows you will all agree with me, I'm just not that interesting!:o :)

[SDHALFAN]

Okay Dave,

I went back and read my post. The only thing I can see there as a "rant" is my total aversion to wearing high heels. It seems toi me that I just expressed an opinion (okay,well several), as everyone else has done but I do firmly admit here and now that I hate having to wear high heels any more. I'll suffer through the wearing of maybe 2-1/2 inch heels but those 4-inchers are going to Goodwill first thing tomorrow morning - ooh and when I think about how much money I spent on them! Move over Manolo, Salvatore is moving in:D

[dakrewser]

[quote name='SDHALFAN']Okay Dave,

I went back and read my post. The only thing I can see there as a "rant" is my total aversion to wearing high heels. [/QUOTE]

And many will agree with that. But when you start a post with "I wonder if you know just exactly how much you are paying extra for what you consider to be 'perks'?" (which many might take to be a snide remark) is it any wonder that some folks (i.e., those who prefer suites) might bristle? They know very well exactly how much they are paying! :)

Let's write this one off to a misunderstanding, then.

[Sinbad37]

[b]Please tell me where a "Good ole County Boy" comes up with "aphorism"! [/b]
:D [b]I JUST LOVE IT WHEN I HAVE TO GO TO WEBSTER.!:D [/b]

[ryansmemom]

[quote name='SDHALFAN']Oops, Sorry Dave,

I didn't mean to infer that you were in agreement with my "rant". In fact, I didn't even realise that I was "ranting" - I'll have to go back and read my post. I thought that I was just expressing an opinion but the hour was late and maybe I did go off on a rant. Darn, I hate when people do that! However, I do still agree with your "pithy little aphorism".

To be perfectly honest with you, I couldn't care less where other people choose to enjoy their cruise - that's their business and their choice and God knows they are entitled to it and I certainly don't lose any sleep over the fact that I choose to conserve my money and opt for an outside cabin, even if it is on a lower deck. I could probably save money on an inside and take another cruise, but darn it I like that window.

Now, once again to be perfectly honest, I never thought that I would end up agreeing with lknick about anything but I think he may be right about the fact that the retirees control most of the wealth (well I'd say a lot of it anyway) in the U.S. I also think that 1st Mate was just throwing in his/her two cents to get a little something going here.

I don't mean to offend anyone here, I'm just exercising my right to Freedom of Speech (as guaranteed by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution).

Best wishes to all of you. Have a wonderful cruise be it in the Penthouse Suite or in an inside cabin. I know that whatever you choose the cruise is the thing that matters and not where your "address" is. Moi, I'm looking forward to Christmas and New Year's aboard the Amsterdam to Hawaii.

Fair winds and following seas to all.[/QUOTE]

SDHALFAN,

I'm glad I read your follow up posts. You really got my defenses up. When I read this one I became a bit more defensive. Especially when you said you disliked rants and I specifically stated I had been ranting. It is amazing how defensiveness can make a person narcissistic. I admit I took it personally for a bit.

Then I read further on and you said you were just exercising your right to free speech like the rest of us and really didn't care where anyone else bunked while on board. Like me, you posted late at night. I began to feel better and realised you were ranting a bit too.

I did mean what I said in my posts. We suite folks do feel attacked at times. "Suitey"? Perhaps in a different context it could be cute. I don't know. Did you mean it in a derogatory way? I kinda like it, but not if it's a put down. It could go either way. Cute and endearinging or snide and nasty.

Anyway, peace.

Linda