Two-class System on Ships?

[HAL92]

Some modern cruise lines(i.e. Cunard) have the two-class system on ships. HAL doesn't have it, but its ships have more of the two-class system than most lines. The deluxe suite guests have the neptune lounge, special privelages, extra parties, and special service. Even though they have that stuff, I still only use it once in a while and still use the main areas when staying in a suite. I think that it's good to have some of that two-class system, but I don't think that HAL should go back to the old style where everything on the ship was seperate based on your cabin category.

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='HAL92']Some modern cruise lines(i.e. Cunard) have the two-class system on ships.[/QUOTE]
Not really - all that is separate is the dining rooms. There is also the Queens Grill Lounge which is for Queens Grill passengers only (sort of like the Neptune Lounge on HAL), and on QM2 there is also a small private deck for QG pax.

Otherwise, all of the public areas, deck space, etc. are all common.

So really, the QUEENs are one-class ships, but with separate dining rooms for pax in the higher categories.

A traditional two- or three-class ship had entirely separate public areas, deck space, and everything else for each class, designed so that the different classes never mixed at all. Very different from what Cunard has today.

[HAL92]

You're right-Cunard is much different than a traditional two- or three-class ship, but my point is that it is the one modern cruise line that has the most reminants of the Golden Age of cruising. On the traditional ships, everything was separate and the different classes weren't allowed to mix. For example, someone traveling in steerage couldn't even walk through any of the first class areas. Cunard also does more one-way and transatlantic cruises than other lines, making it the modern line that is the most like the Golden age of cruising.

[Lisa63]

[quote name='Host Doug']Not really - all that is separate is the dining rooms. [/QUOTE]True. And another way of looking at this is that even the Grill pax cannot dine in the Mauretania or Caronia Restaurants (although I know that exceptions are occassionally made upon request, but it's rare). So, it works both ways. :)

[quote name='Host Doug']There is also the Queens Grill Lounge which is for Queens Grill passengers only (sort of like the Neptune Lounge on HAL), and on QM2 there is also a small private deck for QG pax.[/QUOTE]This is exactly what I meant in my earlier post describing that I found little difference in this respect on my HAL cruise vs. my QE2 crossing. Actually, on QE2, I was able to use the QG Lounge as a guest of a QG passenger, as long as he was with me. I don't know if the same is true on HAL -- does anyone know?

[kryos]

[quote name='HAL92']You're right-Cunard is much different than a traditional two- or three-class ship, but my point is that it is the one modern cruise line that has the most reminants of the Golden Age of cruising. On the traditional ships, everything was separate and the different classes weren't allowed to mix. For example, someone traveling in steerage couldn't even walk through any of the first class areas. Cunard also does more one-way and transatlantic cruises than other lines, making it the modern line that is the most like the Golden age of cruising.[/QUOTE]
I happened to mention to a friend of mine that someday I would love to sail the Queen Mary ... just for the experience.

She told me that I'd better think twice as every night on Cunard is formal night ... and she knows how much I dread formal nights.

Is that true?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='kryos']She told me that I'd better think twice as every night on Cunard is formal night ... and she knows how much I dread formal nights.[/QUOTE]
Until fairly recently, on six-night crossings (they were on QE2 at the time, now most are on QM2), four nights (all but the first and last) were formal.

I think they are now down to two formal nights on a six-night crossing.

I have not been on Cunard (visiting QM2 next month though!) but I have a lot of friends who are frequent Cunard passengers and I get the impression that if you dread dressing up, Cunard may not be for you.

Then again, I would normally not reccommend HAL to anyone who dreads formal nights either... There are casual choices out there in all price ranges, from the ultra-low-budget Windjammer Barefoot ships (where you really can go barefoot) to NCL in the mass market to the upscale "resort casual" ships like Oceania and Windstar, to the ultra-exclusive SeaDream vessels, there is little need to go on a ship where formal dress is [i]de rigeur[/i] if you don't like it.

Personally, my attitude towards formal dress is very simple. If the ship was in port that day (unless it left, at the very latest, in the early afternoon), or it is the first or last night, it is simply not practical to require anything more than "dressy casual". However, where it is practical (read: days at sea that aren't the last day of the cruise) I do enjoy getting dressed up and being surrounded by others who are.

This is pretty much the way lines like HAL, Celebrity, etc. operate, so for me that is perfect. In this day and age there is so much choice in the cruise industry that there really is something to please everyone.

In fact - to go back to a topic that is more germane to this thread for a moment - this is my personal reason for opposing a de facto class system on cruise ships. There is a ship for every taste and budget, so it is not really necessary, in my opinion, to have a lot of mixing of tastes and budgets on the same ship. QM2 is the only vessel where I might excuse this, since there are no other ships on the North Atlantic, and therefore she must accomodate everyone who wants to cross the Atlantic by sea (except for freighters, and the occasional positioning cruise). But in most other destinations, I simply don't see the need. With entire ships dedicated to any given combination of taste and price point, everyone can have the run of a ship, [i]some[/i] ship... And the people lower down on the price scale don't have to be kept out of anyplace, while those higher up can get an experience where [i]everything[/i] is tailored to their taste and budget - and there won't be any "little people" around to bother the Leona Helmsleys among them, either ;) .

[cruisecrasy]

Saw a reference earlier as to how the 'class' system was displayed in the picture Titanic. One thing which stood out as being totally incorrect in that movie is that Jack wldn't even have gotten two steps into the first class lounge or anywhere else for that matter - the crew wld have been on him like a 'duck on a june bug'...At the very least he wld have been reported on by cruise members whose job it is to keep an eye on wealthy passengers and especially young ladies. Had relatives myself that had sailed other luxury ships in both first and second class and wld know first hand. Very, very strict and vigilant that the 'upper crust' weren't 'bothered' by the 'others'...Steerage stayed in steerage, second class in second - well u get the picture. The first class pax cld go down although discouraged but u didn't go 'up' and young women cldn't even go down if they wanted to - their escorts or parents wld have dragged them to their cabins & locked them in - that was seen a few times! As far as standing on the bow of the ship - giggle, snort - what a laugh...yah right - no way!! Jack wld have been lucky in real life not to have been beaten..which one of my relatives saw happen once. The fellow had infiltrated second class from steerage and he saw him dragged out suffering a few blows on the way...and no way a lawyer wld have dreamed of even taking up his case unlike today..! Happier cruisin' these days - 'whot'!!!

[Sailure]

[quote name='cruisecrasy']Saw a reference earlier as to how the 'class' system was displayed in the picture Titanic. One thing which stood out as being totally incorrect in that movie is that Jack wldn't even have gotten two steps into the first class lounge or anywhere else for that matter - the crew wld have been on him like a 'duck on a june bug'...At the very least he wld have been reported on by cruise members whose job it is to keep an eye on wealthy passengers and especially young ladies. Had relatives myself that had sailed other luxury ships in both first and second class and wld know first hand. Very, very strict and vigilant that the 'upper crust' weren't 'bothered' by the 'others'...Steerage stayed in steerage, second class in second - well u get the picture. The first class pax cld go down although discouraged but u didn't go 'up' and young women cldn't even go down if they wanted to - their escorts or parents wld have dragged them to their cabins & locked them in - that was seen a few times! As far as standing on the bow of the ship - giggle, snort - what a laugh...yah right - no way!! Jack wld have been lucky in real life not to have been beaten..which one of my relatives saw happen once. The fellow had infiltrated second class from steerage and he saw him dragged out suffering a few blows on the way...and no way a lawyer wld have dreamed of even taking up his case unlike today..! Happier cruisin' these days - 'whot'!!![/QUOTE]

[b][i][font=Arial][color=darkgreen]Don't forget who was on that ship...Molly Brown..and she had no pretentions and she would have been able or anyone who wanted to in first class, would have been able to invite anyone they wanted to join them in their dining room. Who would have told a first class passenger that they couldn't invite someone less fortunate, but just as nice to visit in first class?:D [/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400][/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400]BTW, there was something I learned on this last cruise that I kind of liked. We were at a table for 4. I like to cruise the luxurious way, because I feel I deserve it and I want to pay for the comforts, extras and I like being able to have chocolate covered strawberries and other "special" things delivered to my suite every day at a certain time.[/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400][/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400]When I go to the dining room I don't go wearing my little gold star to advertise what "class" I'm sailing, I don't go flaunting diamonds or any other "sign" of wealth and I don't like being asked how much I paid for my cruise at the dining table or what kind of cabin I have. Every single time I had dinner, there was at least one person who would bring up that issue.[/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400][/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400]This time, at our table for 4 we happened to be seated with two other people who were travelling in the S suites as well. We got along wonderfully and had so much in common in so many areas. We were so pleased that we were so perfectly matched that I asked the Asst. Maitr di, Karin how the tables were assigned and if there was any method to their madness. She excused herself and went to HER boss to find out the answer. She came back and told me that they try to seat people with the same accomodations together. That made me very happy as it took away alot of silliness with intrusive questions.[/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400][/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400]I KNEW these people were in the same cat as us because I saw them at the Neptune when we got onboard.[/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400][/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400]Now, I'm ASSUMING Karin told me the truth.:) [/color][/font][/i][/b]

[cruisecrasy]

While Molly Brown may not have had any pretentions she knew all too well what happens when u 'bucked' the accepted 'codes' of those days and wldn't have invited the 'lessors' up..and it wldn't have been allowed anyway - sorry..! The Captain wld have spoken to her privately and explained it and that wld have been an end to it - he had lots of even richer pax who wld have 'thrown' him overboard if he had permitted such a breech and been fired when he got home. Besides, Molly was all for moving up to the 'mucky mucks' level and wldn't have risked her society standing by doing such a thing. Besides HOW wld she even have met any of them - the doors were chained and or locked between levels? U are correct as far as trying to seat pax together in the dining room in the same accomodations at least as far as 'S' passengers go anyway - I have had the same experience any time I have been in that category. Checked with friend in the cruiseline industry to be sure and u are right on. Happy cruisin' - 'sweet-suite' isn't it!!

[DreadPirateRobert]

Interesting thread. I suppose I'll never belong to the truly "upper crust" no matter what my finances might be. I personally do not believe in any visible class distinctions.
I can certainly understand that some may desire them. If one is paying many times more than the average pasenger for their trip it might be natural to want more perks including separate dining. I'd just never go on a cruise where my passage was that much more expensive.
If the market place demands that level of luxury some cruise line will and should meet the need.

[Sailure]

[quote name='pirateover40']Interesting thread. I suppose I'll never belong to the truly "upper crust" no matter what my finances might be. I personally do not believe in any visible class distinctions.
I can certainly understand that some may desire them. If one is paying many times more than the average pasenger for their trip it might be natural to want more perks including separate dining. I'd just never go on a cruise where my passage was that much more expensive.
If the market place demands that level of luxury some cruise line will and should meet the need.[/QUOTE]

[b][i][font=Arial][color=darkgreen]I think HAL meets the need quite nicely and quietly. BTW, I don't think there is truly an "upper crust" that cruises much on most cruiselines anymore. Those people DO book on lines that usually outprice anyone BUT the upper crust...and the REAL uppercrust...sail on private sailing yachts that they either own or lease from private people/companies.[/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400][/color][/font][/i][/b]
[b][i][font=Arial][color=#006400]From what I've seen of the "upper crust" who love to show their pretentions on HAL...they are really "upper crust wannabees" IMO. I'd hate to see how much debt those "upper crust wannabees" are in!:D [/color][/font][/i][/b]

[twoguyscruising]

I just had to ad my thoughts... We have had the fortune to sail in suites and regular cabins on several lines. Now, I love the perks that comes with the Suites and wouldnt want to give them up. It doesnt make me any better than anyone else on the ship but if I paid more and I get a few extra benefits I'll take them. Extra dining options, butler, concierge, larger bathroom.. sure whats not to want. I made the choice to spend more, I am not elite by anymeans or I would have a much larger boat than I have currently!:) I don't believe in the class system but I do believe in you get what you pay for, just go stay at a Motel 6 then go stay at a Marriott tell me which one is nicer.

The truth is I like to get my drink on when I am cruisin so if you like to party no matter what suite/cabin your in we are going to have fun.

I like to say "Never had a bad cruise Never will" its a state of mind.

Cheers

[hammybee]

[quote name='twoguyscruising']
I like to say "Never had a bad cruise Never will" its a state of mind.

Cheers[/QUOTE]
________________________________________________________________
Where the heck did this come from? I was halfway through speed reading all these posts before I realized this thread was started almost 2 years ago.

[twoguyscruising]

its like the energizer bunny ... it keeps going and going and going lol:p

[RevNeal]

LOL ... another blast from the past.
I enjoyed re-reading this.
I had forgotten most of it. :)

[gizmo]

[quote name='revneal']LOL ... another blast from the past.
:)[/quote]

But nothing beats the "Blender" thread. :D

[RuthC]

[quote name='gizmo']But nothing beats the "Blender" thread. :D[/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]Don't know about that. "Hookers on HAL" was pretty good in it's day. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[p.nutgirl]

[quote name='MandyGirl'][COLOR=darkorchid]Having cruised the S/S Norway and learning a lot about the two-class social system onboard that ship (stairways only connecting certain decks, separate dining rooms, etc) it has always left some lingering questions in my mind. Watching the movie "Titanic" also was informative about this system.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=darkorchid]After visiting the HAL boards, I have learned about the many "suite-life amenities" such as a separate dining room for breakfast/lunch, supposedly guaranteed table assignments, separate lounge area (Neptune), etc.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=darkorchid]Now I read where HAL has backed away from some of those suite amenities.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=darkorchid][B]My question is this:[/B] After reading various questions (such as "do suites have their own pool" or "do suites still get their own dining room" or "do suites get priority for this or that") and flying on airlines where first-class uses the front restrooms but coach class is asked to use the aft bathrooms (even if sitting bulkhead in coach that is much closer to the front restrooms)... [B]are HAL passengers desiring a return to the two-class system found on cruiseships many years ago? Such as a Suite versus Non-Suite system?[/B][/COLOR][/quote]

I might be setting myself up to have a lot of people say mean things about me, especially since I have not read everybody's response... I did however read the second posting and you sounded much nicer on your second post but I felt compelled to voice my opinion...

I am offended..:( When one pays for a first class ticket it is disturbing that so many people from coach come up front and use the bathroom.. (it's not just the people from the first rows, I have seen people come from the back of the plane.) I can't tell you how many flights that I have been on and due to the fact that all passengers from coach kept coming up to the first class bathrooms, I had to go to the back of the plane and wait because that line was shorter... This was especially noticeable to me when I had surgery and walking was difficult as with standing.. but I had to go to the back..It's not that I want to be treated as if I am someone special vs anyone else.. thats not what it is about for me. When I travel and indulge myself in some extras it's because I want to feel special personally, not that I want to down my fellow man...or that I want there to exisit a two party system...Some others (understanding I only read a couple of posts) make other good comments...

It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder... Life has taught me that money means nothing, when I meet somebody I could care less what their social status is, my concern is how are they as people, how are they as parents, are they good hearted. It does not take money to be good hearted..

If you have read on the boards that certain people are complaining because certain perks are being taken away I would not take it personally chances are it's more of a money thing.. as somebody else pointed out no body likes to just throw money, if they are paying more they want something for that more...

Vacation to me is like a dream , I think it's cool to get personalized stationary to have fresh coffee, etal so much so I am personally willing to pay for it that doesn't mean I think less of anybody else... I think that you are taking it way wrong:confused:

[twinkletoes4445]

Well, the perks that were offered for a suite were high on the list as to why we booked our HAL cruise. I don't feel "special" by any means. And I don't begrudge anyone from booking a suite, flying first class...or whatever the case may be. This is an equal opportunity for anyone who wants to pay for the services. :)

This was a very interesting thread. I'm sorry I missed the "Hookers on Hal" thread. Bet it was a goody. And the "blender" one...I can only imagine. Of course I ordered a magazine called "Blender" thinking it was about mixed blender drinks. My kids got a good chuckle over that one... :)

[Scrumpy]

I read this thread when it popped up last night. I don't remember reading it last year when it made a similar reappearance. I found the poll results interesting. I wonder if anyone is still voting or if people are just posting now.

I think if you want to pay more to get more, then that's great. I wouldn't go on a ship segregated by class, but I don't think HAL's system qualifies. There may (or may not) be a few kinda iffy aspects, but having enjoyed myself on these ships without extra benefits, I don't think I'm missing anything I'd actually value. We have been tossing around a Cunard cruise for over a year now and those separate dining rooms have been a sticking point, in all honesty.

One thing I've wondered about in looking at other ships is if interior suites - like overlooking the atrium on whatever-that-cruise-ship-was are popular. I see FOS has some of these, too; that Ben and Jerry's suite sounds interesting. But, that's OT, I guess. LOL!

The one perk I'd love to see? Better curtains!!!:p

[hammybee]

[quote name='RuthC'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]Don't know about that. "Hookers on HAL" was pretty good in it's day. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
_______________________________________________________________

I do not remember "hookers on hal". Just the thought of it sounds like it might have been the best and worst all time thread. I did a search and the evidence is gone. Ruth are you pulling our legs? If not, can you, to keep the memory alive, summarize the thread and I know by asking you to do this favor, I am asking to have my leg pulled.

[gizmo]

[QUOTE]Don't know about that. "Hookers on HAL" was pretty good in it's day[/QUOTE]

I forgot about that one ! It was a real hoot and one of the best. :D

[quote name='hammybee']I do not remember "hookers on hal". Just the thought of it sounds like it might have been the best and worst all time thread. I did a search and the evidence is gone. Ruth are you pulling our legs? If not, can you, to keep the memory alive, summarize the thread and I know by asking you to do this favor, I am asking to have my leg pulled[/QUOTE]

No one is pulling your leg. It was for real. It was way before the boards upgraded and has been long gone.

[MandyGirl]

[quote name='p.nutgirl'] It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder...

[/quote]

Communication via message boards is very difficult to read/interpret tone and if someone is "nice" or not. As you noticed, this thread is about two [B]years[/B] old, and I posted the question out of curiousity in-between my two HAL cruises. At the time, many postings were made here with the new suite class on the HAL board and amenities changing (feel free to go dig up those posts as well from the timeframe). I merely posted a question, and two years later am still getting flamed. As I stated, I loved learning the history of the S/S France (Norway) and I asked a question. Years later, still getting flamed.

Nope - no chip on my shoulder - but thank you for sharing your opinion of me as a person. I have never had someone tell me I am not good hearted, but that is great you have summed me up from one post made years ago. Maybe someone's perception of me in person is different from those who read one post?:confused: The 100+ students I teach yearly and their parents seem to have a different opinion of me from you.

We pick and choose what we book, yet nobody flamed me for subsequently booking a suite for Alaska on a different cruiseline. We booked it so that our family members who were in an inside cabin would have somewhere to gather when viewing glaciers if the public areas were full. Each couple had a duplicate key to our cabin. Is that not good hearted? Or did you sum me up in one post?

As far as airplanes, not a problem walking to the back of the plane even when sitting bulkhead in coach and being 9 months pregnant (which I am right now). No problem waddling to the back. And when I was on crutches for a fall in late June, I still waddled to the back of the plane even though the front was much closer. The third trimester definitely allows for more trips to the bathroom during pregnancy, whether you are physically able to walk or not.

I'm one of those who is extremely thankful for each and every day God has given me to experience life. And that, I do not think I am taking life "way wrong."

Please, answer a post as opposed to making personal attacks on a person on a message board, especially on a posting that is years old. Just my opinion - CruiseCritic has been great for many years without making personal attacks.

[Host Walt]

[quote name='MandyGirl']...
Please, answer a post as opposed to making personal attacks on a person on a message board, especially on a posting that is years old. Just my opinion - CruiseCritic has been great for many years without making personal attacks.[/quote]

I agree. More to the point, so do our [URL="http://www.cruisecritic.com/community/guide.cfm#6"]Community Guidelines[/URL]:

[QUOTE]
Cruise Critic is committed to providing an online environment that is free from these types of harassing postings. Please, don't attack another poster or group of posters. Do not harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another member that is unwanted. This means: don't say bad things about them.... [B][COLOR=red]If you disagree with someone, respond to the subject, not the person.[/COLOR][/B] Postings of this nature will be removed from the boards.
[/QUOTE]

The subject of a two class system is still current and deserves to be discussed. Otherwise the thread would have been closed to further discussion.

Please conform to our guidelines when posting to this or to any other threads. Thank you.

[OceanLiner]

We sailed the Volendam in March of this year, 10 night southern Carib, in a Dlx Veranda Suite. The service was excellent and we wanted for nothing. We have since decided that on whatever cruise we are sailing that we will not go until we can afford to purchase the cabin category that would bring us to the concierge class.

There was nothing overt about the upgraded class, in was all little subtlties throughout the cruise. Ease of disembarkations, extra time at meals, special breakfast and lunch areas, more details about the ports, more pesonalized service, etc....

We wont leave home without it!