You won't believe what our travel agent DID!

[lvtotrvl1]

"What she has been doing was taking peoples deposits and paying off the customers who already had theirs booked. "

 

I'm not sure I understand this? Paying for customers that were already booked???? Why wouldn't the customers be paying? I'd ask for a better explanation from her. This just doesn't make sense.

 

I am a TA also, and I am so sorry this is happening to you. Other posters have given you good suggestions, so I won't rehash here. I just wish you good luck and really hope you will be on your cruise. Please keep us updated.

[bacm]

I don't think the OP realizes the exact fraud that has been committed. If I'm understanding her posts correctly (which I may not, so please correct me) I believe she thinks it's OK for the TA to accept everyone's deposits and final payments and apply them when the TA sees fit, therefore allowing the TA to use the funds as she sees fit (sort of floating the money, so to speak). It is my understanding that when you make a deposit it goes directly to the Cruiseline towards your booking and only your booking. And likewise, when you make your final payment that also goes directly to the cruiseline to pay for your, and only your cruise. For some reason the OP thinks that the TA isn't doing anything wrong by using her clients money for other needs. I think the OP thinks the only thing that went wrong is that the TA wasn't able to fix it this time. I am so sorry that she has to deal with this and I truly hope it all works out, but this is no small matter. If this is how this TA is conducting business, she is headed for disaster along with all of her clients.

[vacation fool]

Reading all of these horror stories got me thinking about the final payment just made on my upcoming NCL cruise. The credit card payment was made to the TA not the cruise line. I did call NCL and the payment was made by the TA but a week later than the due date!!! So, am I understanding correctly that even though u book thru a TA that the credit card charge should be only to the Cruise line? There was nothing in my contract that said that. I booked thru one of the online TA's from cruise compete. So for the future, should i insist they write in my contract that all credit card payments go directly to cruiseline and not to agency? :confused:

[jode]

"What she has been doing was taking peoples deposits and paying off the customers who already had theirs booked. "

 

I'm not sure I understand this? Paying for customers that were already booked???? Why wouldn't the customers be paying? I'd ask for a better explanation from her. This just doesn't make sense.

 

I am a TA also, and I am so sorry this is happening to you. Other posters have given you good suggestions, so I won't rehash here. I just wish you good luck and really hope you will be on your cruise. Please keep us updated.

 

This is what our eventually bankrupt TA did - use someone's money for something (maybe to purchase a block of rooms that he "hoped" to sell, etc.) then when that person's date for final payment (which he already had received and spent) was due in order to get docs for the first person he would "borrow" another client's deposit or payment, etc to pony up for the first client he had "borrowed" from, etc etc. - a real pyramid that evenually collapses and the last clients involved end up losing money. It is a sick and fraudulent practice that no honest business person would participate in. But unfortunately once they start it looks so easy and seamless that they continue until unsuspecting clients get burnt. Certainly there are very few (thank goodness) TAs that practice this unethical way of doing business. And we as customers have to protect ourselves by always using credit cards - period. My husband and I use to be annoyed to know that a portion of our credit card expenses (ie the interest rate, annual fee, etc.) was probably funding reimbursement of other card holders who had been burnt due to fraud - but now that we saw first hand what happened to us - it is a comfort to know that anything we put on our credit card is protected until we receive the goods or services promised.

[98Charlie]

"What she has been doing was taking peoples deposits and paying off the customers who already had theirs booked. "

 

I'm not sure I understand this? Paying for customers that were already booked???? Why wouldn't the customers be paying? I'd ask for a better explanation from her. This just doesn't make sense.

 

I am a TA also, and I am so sorry this is happening to you. Other posters have given you good suggestions, so I won't rehash here. I just wish you good luck and really hope you will be on your cruise. Please keep us updated.

At some point in time this TA decided to "borrow" money that was to be used for a deposit on someones (call them Traveller One) travel. Maybe to cover office expenses, maybe to go out to dinner. Doesn't matter, he/she still diverted the funds to his/her own use.

 

When it came time for Traveller One's final payment, the TA then uses the funds from a current customer (Traveller Two) who won't be travelling for a few months.

 

Of course, the hope of the TA is that they will eventually return the funds to the cash stream and be even. The reality is that once they have started doing it, it is difficult to get out of the hole.

 

Generally the term would be "Embezzlement"

 

Charlie

[98Charlie]

I don't think the OP realizes the exact fraud that has been committed. If I'm understanding her posts correctly (which I may not, so please correct me) I believe she thinks it's OK for the TA to accept everyone's deposits and final payments and apply them when the TA sees fit, therefore allowing the TA to use the funds as she sees fit (sort of floating the money, so to speak). It is my understanding that when you make a deposit it goes directly to the Cruiseline towards your booking and only your booking. And likewise, when you make your final payment that also goes directly to the cruiseline to pay for your, and only your cruise. For some reason the OP thinks that the TA isn't doing anything wrong by using her clients money for other needs. I think the OP thinks the only thing that went wrong is that the TA wasn't able to fix it this time. I am so sorry that she has to deal with this and I truly hope it all works out, but this is no small matter. If this is how this TA is conducting business, she is headed for disaster along with all of her clients.

I don't think that OP feels it's OK to hold monies. It really seemed that she wanted to let us know that it can happen and we (the rest of the cruising public) should be careful in our transactions.

 

Charlie

[lvtotrvl1]

At some point in time this TA decided to "borrow" money that was to be used for a deposit on someones (call them Traveller One) travel. Maybe to cover office expenses, maybe to go out to dinner. Doesn't matter, he/she still diverted the funds to his/her own use.

 

When it came time for Traveller One's final payment, the TA then uses the funds from a current customer (Traveller Two) who won't be travelling for a few months.

 

Of course, the hope of the TA is that they will eventually return the funds to the cash stream and be even. The reality is that once they have started doing it, it is difficult to get out of the hole.

 

Generally the term would be "Embezzlement"

 

I understand that and I believe that is what she did...but telling the OP she used it for other bookings like it is normal practice, is way off base and as you say..illegal.

 

As far as agencies taking checks.....Personally, I don't accept checks...too much liability (and due to this I have lost sales, but I'm not comfortable taking checks). If an agency accepts a check, most times it needs to be made out to the agency, since the cruiselines generally don't accept clients checks. Then the agency will send an agency check to the cruiseline for that booking.

 

As far as credit cards...some agencies will charge the card in house and send an agency check to the cruiseline. I worked for an agency once that did this, and basically you are floating the persons money (I no longer work there). That agency always made payments on time, and nothing like the OP's experience happened (thank goodness).

 

Personally I am much more comfortable with passing the clients cc to the cruiseline and that's the end of it. I would not be comfortable having the agency charge my card.

[98Charlie]

I think that there are two big lessons for people out of this.

 

1. Use credit cards
   
2. Get a cruise line confirmation number.
   

 

Charlie

[wwakla]

That just plain sucks!:mad:

 

Taking from Peter to pay for Paul!

[ruskatab]

Im glad I get an interline discount and have to book directly with Carnival. What a nightmare! I hope it all works out for you and you get a cabin. Good Luck!

[HeidiHo]

Thanks to Cruise Critic, I learned years ago to always make sure your CC is charged by Carnival and not the TA. When I booked my Miracle cruise I already knew to make sure of this and yes, that is what my TA did. For our upcoming Liberty cruise I just decided to skip the TA and book directly with Carnival.

[Flip2cruise]

Pardpn me for posting 3 times in a row, but please do not make a blanket statement that this happens too often. As an agent I know this isn't the case. Anyone can be dishonest, in any field. Most agents are above reproach and work very hard for their money. Working out of their homes has little to do with it if they work for a major company. One of the largest cruise line agencies in the world are all or almost all home based. Thier agents are honest, work closely together, have a major coorporation to back them up and are very well trained. you may not have meant your statement the way it came across, but for those who are not experienced travelers you may have scared enough of them to take business away from TAs.

 

Nita

 

In my opinion one case of fraud is too many. I have read dozens of cases like this. If you are good and honest, you will get tons of clients.

 

If my post made people check out TAs more closely, I would think someone in the industry would look at that as a good thing.

[robyn525600]

I would be FURIOUS if that happened to me. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

 

I'm so sorry that happened to you - I hope it works out.

[4me-itstheC]

OP- I sincerely hope that in someway this is resolved for you. My heart truly goes out to you & your family. I am a firm believer in karma and hopefully it comes back & bites this TA in the A$$ BIGTIME!!! Stand firm and don't back down until you get a fair resolution.

 

 

Carmel

[cruiseco]

 

Generally the term would be "Embezzlement"

 

.

 

I don't think it's embezzlement in all instances as embezzlement would be stealing the agency's money. At least here in CA the money received by an agency as a payment on a trip still belongs to the client. It must be deposited into a trust account separate from the agency's operating account until disbursed to the cruise line.

 

Here's why a agency charging a client's card on their own merchant should send up huge red flags in most instances.

 

Let's say the agency makes 10% commission on the commissionable part of the cruise fare and is paying a 2.5% transaction fee on their merchant account.

 

A client buys a cruise for $1000, $850 of which is commissionable. Full payment is made 60 days prior to sailing.

 

If the agency lets the cruise ine take the charge they will earn $85 and will be paid probably 30 days after the client sails (it's usually sooner than that but this keeps it simple).

 

 

If the agency charges the full amount on their merchant account they pay a fee of $25 (.025 X the full $1000).

 

So inteaed of earning $85 on the booking they only net out $60. The only upside for them is that they can pocket that full $60 immediately instead of waiting 90 for the commission to be received normally.

 

That effectively means that they're paying out about 30% interest to get their money 90 days faster so they can pay bills or whatever. I don't know what that works out to on an APR basis but it's huge. Any agency that is having a cash crunch and has no other way of getting some operating money (bank loans, etc) is reduced to paying an interest rate in the ballpark of what a loanshark would charge. They're in trouble and there's probably no way out as this would be a last resort and all other sources of cash have dried up.

[lvtotrvl1]

Hi Cruisco..I didn't use the term embezzlement...was quoting Charlie, but the post didn't look that way....:(

[rynosmom]

In order to do the FunPass you need passport info, emergency contact, etc...

 

that is exactly what I was thinking.

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

Well time for an update. It ended up that my stepmother paid her by check. I know it was stupid, and she should have gotten a booking number, so it was her fault for not catching it. You have to realize she has used this agent for years and trusted her. Not all agents are bad, but she took advantage of her trust. We just got back from Hawaii last month on a trip we booked through her. She called my stepmother and told her that she had messed up and to please forgive her. What she has been doing was taking peoples deposits and paying off the customers who already had theirs booked. She was just rolling money around to cover herself, and she didn't receive any bookings in time to pay for ours. She went and took a loan out and tried to book the rooms and they didn't have enough rooms left. She has everyones cabin booked but mine and one other one. The other four rooms are from another group that she did the same thing to. The other one in our group just decided to take a refund, so she is sending them their money back. We REFUSE to take a refund. We want a cabin on the ship we booked on. We will not let this go away quietly and just take the money back. It's the principal of the matter to me. My sister talked to her today and told her if we didn't have documents by 5 tomorrow, that we will press charges against her. We are calling the newspapers, the television stations, anyone who will listen to us. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and I think when you do this to someone then you deserve to pay the price. The money back will not take the place of a cruise, the time that you looked forward to it.

 

 

You want to ruin the TA???

 

Tell her all rooms or none. Since the rooms she got are paid from the loan,if you did not go all that she paid to the cruiseline is forfeited since it is full penalty.:D

[98Charlie]

Just a note on embezzlement. That is exactly what the TA did.

 

Somewhere along the line he/she apparantly removed money from the cash stream of client to service provider with the anticipation of returning it before the house of cards fell through.

 

While we usually see the term embezzle used in a corporate or government sense, it is "to appropriate fraudulently to one's own use, as money or property entrusted to one's care" (Source:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/embezzle)

 

The money that was supposed to be used to hold the booking was not.

 

Charlie

[7toEleven]

You want to ruin the TA???

 

Tell her all rooms or none. Since the rooms she got are paid from the loan,if you did not go all that she paid to the cruiseline is forfeited since it is full penalty.:D

 

 

I didn't get the impression she wanted to "ruin the TA". But, rightfully so, she is pressing forward. What she did was dishonest and if someone doesn't stand up to her she is going to do it again. She deserves to be in the hot seat and not be trusted with other peoples money. If this ruins the TA, then that is the price she must pay for the bed she made. I am sorry this happened to you, your family and friends. How horribly disappointing, and hopefully not a loss of money.

[JudyKa]

This thread has been a very useful and helpful tool for future cruisers. I'm sure that there are a multitude of honest and efficient TA's out there; but I like dealing with the source (cruise company).....not with a go-between....sorry. I get nervous when my money gets handled by someone other than me and the company that actually provides the service I pay for.

 

Also, this thread has made alot of travel agents known to us CC posters through their posts talking about "their agencies".....LOL....guess Cruise Critic thought this thread was important enough to forgo making these posts by various travel agents disappear?

[Yellow_Jacket]

Who knows, you may get a cabin and you may not. If all cabins are sold and all guests show up, you will wave goodbye from the pier. Even if you do get a cabin, it is probably going to be down in stowage rather that what you expected, and I would still be angry.

 

I would be making formal complaints left and right. With the TA's agency manager, with the cruise line, with the state consumer protection agency, with the BBB, with travel agents association. Maybe even a lawsuit.

 

Have you explained the situation to the cruise line? Maybe they can help.

 

And be sure to tell everyone you meet exactly what happened and name the TA and the agency.

 

For future reference: always get a booking number from the agent, and then register the booking number under your account on the Carnival website. That way you will at least know that you have a reservation booked with Carnival.

[barb65]

This is one of the reasons I book a cruise direct with Carnival. I eliminate the middle man and also eliminate the possibility of what happened to your group. I would be livid if that happened to me.:mad: It would probably give me a massive anxiety attack.:eek:

 

Barb65

[itsme_jj]

I am sincerely sorry for your situation. I hope we can take the following information and share it so this does not happen to anyone else.

 

1) Book with your credit card and ensure the charge is made by the cruiseline not the travel agency.

2) Get your confirmation #

3) Either call or go online to the cruise line and confirm your booking #

4) Ask for a printed detailed itinerary to confirm what has been reserved

 

Good luck.

[familycruising4us]

request a quote for a cruise online from one site

receive numerous quotes from many independent agents

book online from one of the e-mailed quotes I select

get a Carnival booking # e-mailed to me IMMEDIATELY

go to Carnival's site and fill out the funpass IMMEDIATELY

ALL MONIES PASS IMMEDIATELY TO CARNIVAL

 

The whole process takes 20 minutes :) I print out copies of the ENTIRE process.

 

 

Piece of cake. :D

 

I did the same, but actually booked the cruise/cabins I wanted thru PVP then got my quotes, and transferred the bookings. Nice bcuz I know they are booked and deposit paid thru Carnival and then got my savings. I've even received an adjustment due to our cabin prices dropping! :D

 

To the OP, hope it all works out, couldn't imagine waiting for a vacation, only to find out it may not happen due to someone else's mistakes :mad: ...