Can't swim unless Potty Trained?!?

[richkinkade]

Yes I know that it is a US Federal rule, but the last time I checked Southampton, Liverpool, Edinburgh, Newcastle and Glasgow were in the UK.

 

I only pointed out the no exception thing because you had posted that there were no exceptions for cholrination, except that wasn't correct.

 

Where does the regulation say there is an exception for chlorination? As I've mentioned before, the regulation applies to all ships calling at US ports. Both the QE2 and QM2 call at US ports, so the US rule applies to them. If the ship you're on doesn't, the US rule doesn't apply. I don't know, nor do I care, what the UK rule is. I suspect you don't know either.

[richkinkade]

Just to clarify my previous post that babies in diapers are allowed in "splash areas" that don't collect water, there are 4 ships that have CDC variances for such areas. Disney Wonder and Magic have a variance for what they describe as "notapool/wet play area." Royal Caribbean Freedom Of The Seas and Liberty Of The Seas each has a "Baby Splash Zone." http://wwwn.cdc.gov/vsp/InspectionQueryTool/Forms/VariancesByTopicResultList_VesselGroup.aspx?SID=6.4.1.3.1

[Onessa]

We are thinking about cruising this summer, but we will have a nearly 6 month old. I was reading on fodors.com about no child can get into any line's pool unless they are potty trained...is this true? Thanks!

 

This has gotten a bit off track - back to the OP's post.

 

To summarize what I have seen here:

1) Disney and some RCCI ships have a "splash" area for little ones that does not require them to be potty trained.

2) Cunard and other lines may have policies that allow non-trained children in their ship's pools. How they are able to do this, is a matter that appears to be open to much conjecture!

Either way, verify with the line prior to booking a particular cruise.

 

3) Some folks choose to bring a small inflatable splash pool.

If you choose to do so; inflating, fillling and emptying appears to be your responsibility. And as always, be careful where you set up the splash pool that it does not pose an obstical and is not infringing upon others' ability to enjoy their cruise.

 

Anything I missed from the postings that relate back to the OP?

[lexxity]

I don't know, nor do I care, what the UK rule is. I suspect you don't know either.

 

Ships in the UK operate under the World Health Authority guidelines, which says that pools should be chlorinated so as to keep them clean and babies can use them!

[kitty9]

lexxity, perhaps you should talk to the parents who didn't overprotect their children when they went to a water park in Georgia and they died due to taking in E Coli from a pool filled with babies, their diapers and human feces. Or the parents who didn't overprotect their children when they had to be in pedatric intensive care with kidney failure due to swimming in a pool that allowed non-toilet trained children. It's not a matter of Americans overprotecting their children, but a matter of wanting our children to live without brain damage, liver/kidney failure or just plain live. E Coli in pools have caused the deaths of more children than you can imagine and that's why the CDC has those rules. Oh, and BTW, chlorine does NOT disinfect pools against fecal matter. Chlorine is for things like urine-related bacteria, and not feces. There's nothing you put in a pool that takes care of all fecal-related bacteria or viruses and E Coli is one of those things.

[lexxity]

Perhaps I would, but that still wouldn't stop me taking my son swimming here twice a week at my local pool. The WHO says it's ok and the cruise ship I was on said it was ok, so it must have been ok. I refuse to believe that babies are any more "dirty" (for want of a better word) than most adults or elderly people. The WHO authortiy suggests that we should all shower before entering a pool, how many of us do that?

 

I can link you into the WHO that says people, any people, with dihorreoha shouldn't enter a pool but a solid stool is ok as long as it is fished out immediately. It is bacteria present in dihorrehea that is going to make you poorly and anyone who entered a pool knowingly with a gastro problem is a fool.

 

Anyway I merely commented originally that I had checked onboard and was told it was fine as they chlorinate and DS had to have a proper swim nappy on. So don't shoot me I am just the messenger.

[larronry]

Actually I just went and did a little research on that Georgia incident because I bring my son to local water parks and what you are saying scared me because what you are telling me means I could be putting my son at risk and this is what I am learning: (the three days it is referring to were prior to the incident June 20 was after the incident)

________________________________

On those three days on which testing occurred, the tests showed the kiddie pool had only one-quarter of the required chlorine content, said Dr. Paul Blake, the state public health chief epidemiologist.

Cobb health officials require a minimum 1 part chlorine per million parts water, and the park's levels were at 0.25 parts chlorine on June 11, 12 and 18.

Chlorine is important

 

On June 20, a Cobb environmental health manager tested the pool water and shut the pool because the chlorine level was 0.5 parts per million, still only half the required level. The pool reopened the next day after passing inspection.

 

White Water goes beyond state requirements for its chlorine ratio, to 3.2 to 3.5 parts per million parts water, and adjusts the water's alkalinity to keep the chlorine at its most effective, Taylor said.

Automatic testing systems throughout the park constantly monitor chlorine levels and make adjustments when necessary, he said. In addition, teams of testers patrol the park, sampling each water area on an hourly basis.

The kiddie pool is gone. Children now splash about in a "zero depth pool," with constantly moving water.

"There's lots of small holes in the bottom of it, filtering," Taylor said. "It's not a tank of water. There's no standing water."

Also, all children younger than 3 are required to wear swim diapers.

 

 

____________________________

So what this tells me is Chlorine does help kill e coli just that it must be monitored daily and that swim diapers do contain it but they actually have to be worn. However on ships they don't necessarily want to run the risk and so some choose to and some choose not to.

 

___________

Here is another article:

Let’s look at a few logical and hard-to-refute concepts bearing on the subject of pool-water sanitation or the lack of it.

1. Statistical improbability: Millions public pools have been operated throughout this century, many with equivalent organic loads and far less sanitation awareness or disinfectant control than we have today, yet extremely few pools have ever contributed to the outbreak of disease. It is true that a New York pool was blamed in the late 1940s for initiating the terrible Poliomyelitis outbreak, a Los Angeles pool and one or two others manifested crypto in the early 1990s, a cruise-ship spa recently infested travelers with Legionnaire's Disease, and many spas have been blamed for pseudomonas or other biounmentionable infestations over the years. The recent, lone E. Coli manifestation, however – ostensibly traced to the Atlanta waterpark – is the only E. Coli O157:H7 ever blamed on a body of sanitized water. Serious doubt exists that this water-park kiddie pool was in fact the source of the infection.

 

 

Looking at the numbers, it is revealing to note the odds. Let's estimate that our 210,000 public pools (high-load and low, full-time or seasonal) operate an average of 14 hours per day for one third of the year and 8 hours a day for the other two thirds, serving an average annualized daily attendance of roughly 50 people. Considering that each swimmer is in the water one-quarter of the pool's open hours – that's 9.5 billion swimmer-hours per year. And the Atlanta debacle appears to be the first E. Coli case on record… just a single occurrence! If one considers it takes a fraction of a swimmer-hour during infectious conditions to contract the disease, the statistical track record against likely infection becomes truly staggering.

And consider drownings in this country. We experience about 1300 tragic drowning losses each year in swimming pools, figuring such occurrence is just 20% of the reported 6,500 total drownings per year from all causes. The likelihood, therefore, that an E. Coli outbreak will occur is hundreds, maybe thousands of times less than the probability that you will have a drowning in your pool this year. And that's if nearly one E. Coli outbreak per year actually happens!

2. Daily fecal introduction: In busy public facilities everywhere, the bacteriological and sometimes physical equivalent of a "fecal accident" is introduced into the pool water every single day the pool is in use. How much fecal material do you suppose is actually released into the pool by a thousand swimmers in the million-gallon wave pool, or a hundred or so toddlers in a few thousand gallons of wading-pool water? What amount, when, and from where?

 

 

The article goes on and on but you get the idea. I think sometimes we worry to much over the remotest of possibilities however these are our children we are worrying about and I certainly will never stop worrying about my son and I certainly can't blame the cruise industry from doing everything possible from preventing any more bad press then they already get with norovirus outbreaks.

 

 

I don't usually swim on ships at all except the thalosotherapy pool on Celebrity so the only reason I'm concerned is my son likes to be able to splash so he'll be more than happy in his little blow up pool.

[richkinkade]

Ships in the UK operate under the World Health Authority guidelines, which says that pools should be chlorinated so as to keep them clean and babies can use them!

 

Actually, the proposed World Health Organization Guide to Ship Sanitation states that "young children should whenever possible be confined to pools small enough to drain in the event of an accidental release of faeces or vomitus"

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/gdwqrevision/gss_draft.pdf

page 141.

Also, although you seem not to want to believe it, even Cunard line ships like the QM2 and QE2, because they call at US ports, must meet US CDC requirements. Here is a recent inspection report. http://wwwn.cdc.gov/vsp/InspectionQueryTool/Forms/InspectionSummaryView.aspx?Inspection=10717131 Note that it includes pools and spas.

[newmexicoNita]

We are thinking about cruising this summer, but we will have a nearly 6 month old. I was reading on fodors.com about no child can get into any line's pool unless they are potty trained...is this true? Thanks!

Absolutely and for good reasons.

 

Nita

[K8T]

Hi there

 

Getting back to the original posting!!

 

We have been on several P&O ships (also part of Cunard) and have taken our daughter, now 3, into the pools, where they are allowed.

 

They do have child free pools on the P&O ships, so adults can get away from the splashing around and children and babies are allowed in the other pools, babies not potty trained, only with swim nappies. it is usually one or two pools out of several that are child free.

 

I don't think they are allowed in the spa pools, but wouldn't think this good for babies anyway.

 

For information, P&O stock swim nappies in the shops on board and the nursery normally have some to spare. I don't know why they are different from the US, but when we have been on American ships, we were told we couldn't use the pools, although luckily she was potty trained by the time we went. I do notice that on P&O ships, the pools are drained and cleaned almost every evening, so perhaps that is why.

 

My daughter was in the water from four months old (after her first injections) and is just starting to swim on her own (she was three two weeks ago), I am not an expert in chlorination of water, but it didn't harm me and my daughter seems perfectly OK. In fact statistically, there is probably more risk of her drowning, because she doesn't understand the water, than being affected by chlorine or the bacteria in it, but each to their own.

 

I hope this answers the question. :)

 

Kate

 

P.S. I believe that British ships still follow British legislation whatever port they are in as seen in the legal age to drink alcohol, which is 18 in the UK. However, they are able to have their own regulations on board too, as some things do differ at sea.

[crusinmama06]

I do notice that on P&O ships, the pools are drained and cleaned almost every evening, so perhaps that is why.

 

However, they are able to have their own regulations on board too, as some things do differ at sea.

 

Every cruiseline we have been on also empties and cleans the pools every night. I think it all comes down to your last statement, different country, different regulation. :)

 

And Onnessa, thanks for the recap...lol. ;)

[Onessa]

And Onnessa, thanks for the recap...lol. ;)

 

I try to keep things on track, but sometimes it is just a losing battle!:D

[s318830]

Cruisinmama06 - thank you so much for posting the ships that have a baby area. We are going out on Liberty in Jan and until I read your post about the Liberty I was planning on bringing our own pool. It's nice to know I don't have to.

 

There seems to be some confusion about swim diapers vs. regular diapers. I'll try to clear up what I perceive to be the confusion. Swim diapers are different from regular diapers. Regular diapers have a gel that traps and holds in water to make them leak resistant. Swim diapers have no gel. They are not meant to hold in pee, just poop. The pee passes through the diaper into the pool. Because there is no gel in swim diapers, they do not swell up when immersed in pool water. Once a regular diaper is 100% saturated and has blown up like a balloon, it doesn't do any kind of job at holding in poop, which is why swim diapers were invented.

 

--Debbie

[larronry]

Just to add to the list of ships that have an area of diaper kids it looks like the new Carnival ship Splendor will have such an area. The person at Carnival I talked to interpreted the information the same way. However until the ship starts sailing in July and we hear actual confirmation of this I can only say this is an interpretation.

 

Here is the description:

" Also located within the Lido Deck area is an expansive two-level, 5,500-square-foot children’s play area which will serve as the focal point for the extensive activities schedule for the line’s top-rated “Camp Carnival” program. Sure to be a hit with kids of all ages is a new feature for Carnival – a water spray park – located just above the main playroom with a private secured stairway leading to the facility."

 

Of course with that description will it only be accessible through Camp Carnival and therefor not by parents with their little ones?

[wentworth]

Cruisinmama06 - thank you so much for posting the ships that have a baby area. We are going out on Liberty in Jan and until I read your post about the Liberty I was planning on bringing our own pool. It's nice to know I don't have to.

 

There seems to be some confusion about swim diapers vs. regular diapers. I'll try to clear up what I perceive to be the confusion. Swim diapers are different from regular diapers. Regular diapers have a gel that traps and holds in water to make them leak resistant. Swim diapers have no gel. They are not meant to hold in pee, just poop. The pee passes through the diaper into the pool. Because there is no gel in swim diapers, they do not swell up when immersed in pool water. Once a regular diaper is 100% saturated and has blown up like a balloon, it doesn't do any kind of job at holding in poop, which is why swim diapers were invented.

 

--Debbie

 

Hi there

 

We were on the Liberty the past two years in March, one with

our 17 month old granddaughter and did NOT notice any area on that

ship for babies in diapers (regular or swim) to swim. We brought our

own blow up pool and filled it with water from the showers outside

the aft pool on lido deck. It took only a few pails of water. We also

had it placed out of the way of any foot traffic.

[wrp96]

We were on the Liberty the past two years in March, one with our 17 month old granddaughter and did NOT notice any area on that ship for babies in diapers (regular or swim) to swim.

 

Cruisinmama06 and the person you quoted were referring to RCCL's Liberty of the Seas. If you cruised the past 2 years in March you were on Carnival Liberty which is a different ship.

[crusinmama06]

Hi there

 

We were on the Liberty the past two years in March, one with

our 17 month old granddaughter and did NOT notice any area on that

ship for babies in diapers (regular or swim) to swim. We brought our

own blow up pool and filled it with water from the showers outside

the aft pool on lido deck. It took only a few pails of water. We also

had it placed out of the way of any foot traffic.

 

You were on CARNIVAL Liberty and not RCCL Liberty of the Seas. ;)

 

The Baby Zone is on RCCL Liberty/Freedom/Independence of the Seas. I know, the names all confuse me too when I am reading them all. They should not name tham all alike...lol.

 

[wentworth]

You were on CARNIVAL Liberty and not RCCL Liberty of the Seas. ;)

 

The Baby Zone is on RCCL Liberty/Freedom/Independence of the Seas. I know, the names all confuse me too when I am reading them all. They should not name tham all alike...lol.

 

 

 

Your right michelle!!!! I just can't keep them all straight. They really

should not give them such similar names:p That baby zone is just

a super place..........would like to see them on Carnival also. Oh well,

I think I read a post saying that Carnival is making baby areas on the

new ships. ;)

[larronry]

Your right michelle!!!! I just can't keep them all straight. They really

should not give them such similar names:p That baby zone is just

a super place..........would like to see them on Carnival also. Oh well,

I think I read a post saying that Carnival is making baby areas on the

new ships. ;)

At least on the Splendor it looks like they are putting it on.

[kaseykahnefan]

Hey all. What is exactly is the baby zone? How do they make it safe? Is it for all babies not matter what age?

[crusinmama06]

Hey all. What is exactly is the baby zone? How do they make it safe? Is it for all babies not matter what age?

 

As you can see in the picture above, it is just a small area sectioned off from the rest of the H20 zone on RCCL Freedom ships. It has a little sprinkling animal showering water down on one side. The depth is about 5-6 inches.

 

ANY age can get in there. But with non potty trained infants...many ages shouldn't. lol

 

I've seen really young babies in there. Mostly babies with their parents. I don't know how they keep the water clean. They have to do something or many kids would be coming down with something.

[Eskwire]

:) We went on the Crown in December ,2006 and there was a kiddie pool outside the kids club area that was designated for the non-potty trained crowd. Not ALL princess ships have this option, but the crown does. You have to call Princess to find out which ships have this option.

[Tripinbrums]

What about adults who use adult diapers. People other than infants do not have control over their bowels. All pools should be chlorinated. I paid the same price for my 18mos old that I did for my 9 year old. The baby did not use Camp Carnival, did not eat the food. I don't mind paying more. Next time we will do A more kid friendly cruise line . Let's not just pick on toddlers.

[helenb]

The only places I have seen on cruise ships where kids in Swim Diapers are allowed are the Splash Areas on the Disney ships.

 

I have been on the Crown Princess and talked to the attendants and read the signs, and swim diapers are NOT allowed in that kiddie pool. However, this rule was regulalry violated and never enforced.

 

On Princess and RCI the signs state that ANYONE in diapers cannot enter, so yes, this includes incontinent adults too.

[CC Help Michell]

What about adults who use adult diapers. People other than infants do not have control over their bowels. All pools should be chlorinated. I paid the same price for my 18mos old that I did for my 9 year old. The baby did not use Camp Carnival, did not eat the food. I don't mind paying more. Next time we will do A more kid friendly cruise line . Let's not just pick on toddlers.

 

Most cruiselines rules say that "diapers" are not permitted (then add "this includes swimmers" or something to that effect). That should include both toddlers and incontinent adults.

 

Regarding your next cruise, from your signature it appears that you were on Carnival. I'm not sure, based on that, what you mean by a "more kid friendly" cruise line (as that's top on my list for an affordable family cruise with the five under-10's in our extended family), but I really do hope you find one more to your liking.