What amount do people REALLY tip?

[greatam]

Very interesting! I hadn't heard that Cunard had adopted the "auto tips" (yes, that's what that is). That is the appropriate tip amount, for the entire cruise, then -- anything extra you leave would be discretionary. I wonder if Cunard (like some other lines) divides that tip pool among more than the "standard tipees" (steward, dining room staff) -- several lines include general housekeeping, kitchen and buffet staff, and a few other areas in pooled tips.

 

To answer your question at the end there, no I don't tip the garbage truck employees every time they empty the bins -- but we do tip them at Christmas (along with the mailman, paper delivery person, etc.). I wouldn't say most Americans do that, but many do.

 

Cunard added "auto tips" at least by 2005. I do not remember if there were auto tips on my Dec. 2004 Winter Crossing, but they were definitely there for the 2005 (actually Jan 3, 2006) Winter Crossing. If you go to the "FARES" page for any Cunard cruise/crossing, it is at the bottom of the page under

"Discretionary Hotel and Dining Charges Charged on Board Per Person" (very polite and very British).

 

And NO, you don't give the mailman, paper boy, etc. a TIP at Xmas. You give them a Christmas present. Please don't ruin our illusion of giving!!!!

[standby 06.30]

It would EASILY reach the prices of years gone by. If the cruise lines paid a higher wage and NO tips, they would be subject to all kinds of government regulations in many countries for "salaried" employees. The price of cruising would be beyond reach of many.

 

Compare the price of a Seabourn, Silversea or other "inclusive" cruise (tips and booze included) cruise against the same type accommodations on a premium cruise line (Oceania, Celebrity, HAL). Usually about 2 times the cost. Compare to the mass market lines for the same accommodations and the price is about 3 times more.

 

The cost of cruising would not increase ONLY by the dollar amount of tips added to the cruise price. You have changed the entire tipped employee category to "salaried" or "hourly wage" employees. And the cruise lines (and you) will pay dearly for that change.

 

I have tried to justify the cost of a luxury cruise (no tipping, free booze) three or four times. And we would have to drink an awful lot of booze to offset the additional price. The tips hardly made a dent in the cost difference.

We did a Red Sea Cruise on a Thomson ship a few yrs back, I would rate it like the older Carnival ships with better food, what we did notice were the hotel staff were naturally happy, they were Salaried, the price for the suite we had was without flights the same as a 7day cruise in the Carrib with Carnival the only difference was our suite did not have a balcony.

I think your argument over "all kinds of Goverment regulations" stinks that is what is needed. Look at Enron! for one

 

Soon the cruise ship industry will run out of people it can exploite, Eastern Europe is drying up, with more countries set to join the EU, why do you think the Poles who 5yrs ago made up a large part of the hotel staff on RCL or Carnival are no longer there, because they can work in Mcdonalds in the UK for a min wage of in $ 11 an hour pay taxes and get free healthcare etc

 

Your statement reminds me of people who said a number of years ago if we introduced the minimum wage in the UK companies would go bust it would leed to high unemployment etc etc.

 

Its introduction was followed by more people being employed than before, and look at the strenght of the pound to the dollar

[CC Help Michell]

Cunard added "auto tips" at least by 2005. I do not remember if there were auto tips on my Dec. 2004 Winter Crossing, but they were definitely there for the 2005 (actually Jan 3, 2006) Winter Crossing. If you go to the "FARES" page for any Cunard cruise/crossing, it is at the bottom of the page under

"Discretionary Hotel and Dining Charges Charged on Board Per Person" (very polite and very British).

 

And NO, you don't give the mailman, paper boy, etc. a TIP at Xmas. You give them a Christmas present. Please don't ruin our illusion of giving!!!!

 

:) Okay, I give them cash as Christmas present -- better? And thanks for the directions on the website -- I was looking for it recently (out of curiosity, because apparently I have that kind of time) and I couldn't find it -- probably the wording threw me off!

[greatam]

I think your argument over "all kinds of Goverment regulations" stinks that is what is needed. Look at Enron! for one

 

 

 

Enron cannot be used for an example of salaries/hourly wages vs tips as the largest percentage of take home pay. Corporate greed, yes. Wages, no. And lots of government regulations in place to prevent Enron type abuses. Some follow the rules, some don't. And some end up in prison. If there weren't government regulations, there would have been no basis for the long prison terms.

 

Another thing you have not considered is how those tips are taxed in various countries. Wages/salaries are generally taxed by most countries on the gross. Quite a few countries do not tax tips received out of the base country. So in essence, by putting cruise line tipped employees on salaries, you have effectively lowered their net income. Currently, quite a few (depending on nationality) only pay taxes on their base salary (very small). The tips are tax free.

 

I spend quite a bit of time in SE Asia and South America for business (international logistics). I have asked questions of guides/business associates/expats in those areas about wages, tips and bonuses. MOST have stated they would rather have the tips/extra compensation/bonuses rather than an increase in salary. The reason has always been the tax structure in their native countries.

[standby 06.30]

Enron cannot be used for an example of salaries/hourly wages vs tips as the largest percentage of take home pay. Corporate greed, yes. Wages, no. And lots of government regulations in place to prevent Enron type abuses. Some follow the rules, some don't. And some end up in prison. If there weren't government regulations, there would have been no basis for the long prison terms.

 

Another thing you have not considered is how those tips are taxed in various countries. Wages/salaries are generally taxed by most countries on the gross. Quite a few countries do not tax tips received out of the base country. So in essence, by putting cruise line tipped employees on salaries, you have effectively lowered their net income. Currently, quite a few (depending on nationality) only pay taxes on their base salary (very small). The tips are tax free.

 

I spend quite a bit of time in SE Asia and South America for business (international logistics). I have asked questions of guides/business associates/expats in those areas about wages, tips and bonuses. MOST have stated they would rather have the tips/extra compensation/bonuses rather than an increase in salary. The reason has always been the tax structure in their native countries.

you do not think the exploitation of a working human being in these circumstances is not corporate greed? just a different kind of corporate greed.

as I have said on a number of occasions that my wife worked for various lines in the carrib and the med starting with celebrity as a Maitre d always on salary, she was payed gross no deductions, I have two friends who are Captains of Cruise Ships who are on salary, always paid gross no taxes.

 

It is up to the person to declare his wages in the country of his origin, very few do that is another problem.

 

You should check out why these ships sail under flags of convenience.

The practice you describe in Se asia and s/america are the very reason that create fertile areas for Agents of Cruise lines it stinks

[Jimmers]

Perhaps if I'd have said in my original post "how much money does a couple generally give their steward at the end of the cruise," I may have been better understood!

 

"how much money do you, as couple, give to your table waiter at the end of your cruise?"

 

On average we generally give our room steward and dining room staff an extra $20 each over the recommended gratuity. But we don't place great demands on them like some do.

 

Of the room steward we may ask for some extra towels and a daily bucket of ice but that's about it. The dining room staff generally always does something extra whether it's cutting our lobster tails or fulfilling a special request.

 

Personally I think the recommended tips should be included in the cost of the cruise. Too many non tippers "stiff" the workers for no good reason. I mean they give NO tip.

 

The cruiselines add a 15% gratuity to every drink regardless of the service provided. So why not build in a gratuity/service fee for the other services. Then if the passenger chooses he can give more for extraordinary service.

 

On the other hand if the service is below the norm the passenger can file a complaint with guest relations and ask for the appropriate credit for the poor service rendered.

 

Jimmers:)

[Wilba]

It would EASILY reach the prices of years gone by. If the cruise lines paid a higher wage and NO tips, they would be subject to all kinds of government regulations in many countries for "salaried" employees. The price of cruising would be beyond reach of many.

 

Compare the price of a Seabourn, Silversea or other "inclusive" cruise (tips and booze included) cruise against the same type accommodations on a premium cruise line (Oceania, Celebrity, HAL). Usually about 2 times the cost. Compare to the mass market lines for the same accommodations and the price is about 3 times more.

 

The cost of cruising would not increase ONLY by the dollar amount of tips added to the cruise price. You have changed the entire tipped employee category to "salaried" or "hourly wage" employees. And the cruise lines (and you) will pay dearly for that change.

 

I have tried to justify the cost of a luxury cruise (no tipping, free booze) three or four times. And we would have to drink an awful lot of booze to offset the additional price. The tips hardly made a dent in the cost difference.

Greatam, Who mentioned free booze as part of the price paid. You are not comparing like for like. Seabourn, Crystal, Silversea and the like are playing to a different market who can afford the higher charges i.e. more Mozart than Karaoke. I disagree that the price would rise easily to the 60's & 70's prices, because there are far more Cruise Lines, far more new cruise ships coming on line all trying to put bums in cabins. When I see Carnival and the like offering 7 night Carribean Cruises on Vacations to Go website for around £210 Sterling, yes look for yourself, by including tips, paying wait & cabin staff a proper wage is not going to change the price by the massive amount you suggest.

Yes I did cruise in the seventies on ships like the Canberra & seem to remember paying around £700 pp for an inside cabin with NO TOILET. I do not pay this price for an inside 35 years on, on far superior ships with its OWN TOILET. You work out for yourself what this relates to in todays prices.

[George W. Bush]

 

I do this in the US also, because the thought of someone working for me earning $2.50 an hour with no healthcare pension etc upsets us.

.

 

I'd guess that a waitress in the United States earns more than a waitress anywhere else in the world. I knew a young woman who worked at outback who averaged over $30 an hour. Sure its hectic, buts its also unskilled. I think that it'd be perfectly fair to leave a tip of 5-8% instead of 15-20%

 

Don't shed too many tears for them.

[newmexicoNita]

I'd guess that a waitress in the United States earns more than a waitress anywhere else in the world. I knew a young woman who worked at outback who averaged over $30 an hour. Sure its hectic, buts its also unskilled. I think that it'd be perfectly fair to leave a tip of 5-8% instead of 15-20%

 

Don't shed too many tears for them.

You may want to know many wait people do not work full time, in fact a majority do not. Yes, it is unskilled and yes it pays well, but it is hard work, you take a heck of a lot off some customers not to mention there are days and nights when business is dead, no people, no $30 an hour. Our grandson in law was working his way through college as a wait person. Thank goodness he is doing something else now. Our younger daughter did the same. I can't beleive anyone would think a 5-8% tip was satisfactory. things like this blow my mind. This is why so many of the tourist areas in Florida now add a 15 to 18% automatic tip that can not be adjusted.

 

Nita

[BobBeaSea]

I'd guess that a waitress in the United States earns more than a waitress anywhere else in the world. I knew a young woman who worked at outback who averaged over $30 an hour. Sure its hectic, buts its also unskilled. I think that it'd be perfectly fair to leave a tip of 5-8% instead of 15-20%

 

Don't shed too many tears for them.

 

Personally I think don't think this job is unskilled, it takes a great deal of "people skills" to deal with a sometimes cantankerous public, not to mention a sense of timing and reading the situation of each particular table. Then there is the physical aspect of managing the delivery of the items, communicating with the kitchen and so on. Probably why wait staff at the better restaurants make the money they do (a lot BTW), they are good at it. :)

[camNaud]

The auto tip many cruise lines now add to your on board account, is very convienent and saves a lot of hassle towards the end of the cruise. You know that the money is spread out, and actually goes to many of the 'invisible' staff we don't see too much of during our cruise, as well as those we see all the time.

 

We also enjoy drinking at the bar and in the lounges, and the 15% tip is not a problem for us. We tend to use the same bar staff and drinks waiters i.e. those who are friendliest and politest, so service is always to our liking. The bar staff go out their way to learn your name and favourite drinks, they also do a great job recommending something different, when you need a change.

 

I can compare cruise ships without auto tipping, and the last night becomes a bit farsicle as waiters start over doing the service bit, in the hope of earning extra from as many passengers as possible. This actually gets quite irritating when your trying to enjoy a quiet meal.

 

On top of the auto tip we also leave extra if our cabin steward has done a good job, and so far we have always had a great cabin steward.

[standby 06.30]

I'd guess that a waitress in the United States earns more than a waitress anywhere else in the world. I knew a young woman who worked at outback who averaged over $30 an hour. Sure its hectic, buts its also unskilled. I think that it'd be perfectly fair to leave a tip of 5-8% instead of 15-20%

 

Don't shed too many tears for them.

Once again "Dubya" you seem not to know what is going on in your own country never mind the rest of the world, (how is "scooter" since your intervention) we had a long conversation with the waitress in Outback, she had plenty of time on her hands as on a Tuesday night it was dead, she was working to fund herself through college and was looking to do a year at school in the UK, the picture she painted was far from yours.

 

Give our love to your brother, it must be a cause of great stress for him to preside over a state that has the third poorest city in America that Tancredo stated was third world. We feel sorry for the citizens of Miami as I come from a City called Liverpool (get Rummy to find it on a map for you) that was treated with contempt by Thatcher who was a great friend of your party, as you may remember we got rid of her, and Liverpool is about to become the European Capital of Culture and is thriving.

 

Please remember under your stewardship the international bank rate is one £ = $ 2.048, and by the by how do the 15 million illegals impact on wages of legal workers in America I can only guess that with the rate of unemployment in your country that they are used by some told hold down the wages of others or you would deal with this problem. regards

[KC_fn]

Once again "Dubya" you seem not to know what is going on in your own country never mind the rest of the world, (how is "scooter" since your intervention)

 

LOL :D

[standby 06.30]

May I ask a question, if you prepay your "tip" on your final invoice, some weeks before travel and before the people that it is for get it, where does the interest go?

 

Also on the 15% added to your bar bill, is there some form of clarity that allows the barperson to check he or she is not getting "Screwed" regards

[Maracucha]

Not sure what cruise line includes automatic tips in the initial charge for the cruise. My initial payment to the travel agency/cruise line has never incuded any of my onboard charges, including the automatic tip, pre-selected excursions, etc. They always hit my first credit card bill arriving post-cruise.

 

As far as the bar staff's being able to monitor their tips, I haven't a clue. Perhaps some of your wife's friends still employed in the industry could best answer.

[standby 06.30]

Not sure what cruise line includes automatic tips in the initial charge for the cruise. My initial payment to the travel agency/cruise line has never incuded any of my onboard charges, including the automatic tip, pre-selected excursions, etc. They always hit my first credit card bill arriving post-cruise.

 

As far as the bar staff's being able to monitor their tips, I haven't a clue. Perhaps some of your wife's friends still employed in the industry could best answer.

RCL for one you can prepay your tips on the final invoice and they give you slips of paper and envelopes to make things "easy" for you so I repeat my question, if a tip is personal between you and the person you are to tip, nothing to do with the line why do they profit from the interest acrued.

 

To the second point we know, the question is for all of the seasoned posters out there, thank you for your reply

[standby 06.30]

The auto tip many cruise lines now add to your on board account, is very convienent and saves a lot of hassle towards the end of the cruise. You know that the money is spread out, and actually goes to many of the 'invisible' staff we don't see too much of during our cruise, as well as those we see all the time.

 

We also enjoy drinking at the bar and in the lounges, and the 15% tip is not a problem for us. We tend to use the same bar staff and drinks waiters i.e. those who are friendliest and politest, so service is always to our liking. The bar staff go out their way to learn your name and favourite drinks, they also do a great job recommending something different, when you need a change.

 

I can compare cruise ships without auto tipping, and the last night becomes a bit farsicle as waiters start over doing the service bit, in the hope of earning extra from as many passengers as possible. This actually gets quite irritating when your trying to enjoy a quiet meal.

 

On top of the auto tip we also leave extra if our cabin steward has done a good job, and so far we have always had a great cabin steward.

Why tip them on the last night, what about the night before two nights before, by then you should have decided to tip or not to tip that is the question regards

[standby 06.30]

LOL :D

Thank you, may I say your Arabesque penchee is stunning regards

[prwjr]

Thank you, may I say your Arabesque penchee is stunning regards

 

What exactly is "Arabesque penchee"?

[standby 06.30]

What exactly is "Arabesque penchee"?

It is a step within ballet, the raised leg must be over 90 degrees, if you check the picture in the top left of K C page, on or under would be from memory "a la hauteur".

 

I had a torrid affair in the 80s with a female ballet dancer, her body was so supple, the picture brought back painfull memories. I must go now to have my abs massaged 20 odd yrs later and they still ache regards

[standby 06.30]

Personally I think don't think this job is unskilled, it takes a great deal of "people skills" to deal with a sometimes cantankerous public, not to mention a sense of timing and reading the situation of each particular table. Then there is the physical aspect of managing the delivery of the items, communicating with the kitchen and so on. Probably why wait staff at the better restaurants make the money they do (a lot BTW), they are good at it. :)

I would agree, and on cruise ships as I have stated my wife taught herself 6 languages to help with her job, most waiters have 2, I wonder how many "Dubya" can speak?

regards

[prwjr]

I will say that I am not a great big 'tipper' however, on my first cruise recently, tipping seemed to be part of the overall cruise experience. From the cab drivers to the shuttle driver to the porters to the Maitre D' to the Head waiter and assistant to the Cabin Steward to the Shore Excursion attendants, etc. Even though I prepaid my gratuities at $10 PP per day, I still felt compelled to tip additionally. You are certainly made to feel obligated to do so.

 

Auto-Tipping is in the true sense, an additional 'service' charge and should be rendered on the basis of services actually received. When a gratuity is automatically added to a charge for drinks or whatever, that notion assumes that the services received were satisfactory and worthy of the 15% gratuity.

 

I think that the gratuities should be included in the total cruise fare, not a separate line item and any additional gratuities should be give on a quality of service basis at the time of service.

 

This, perhaps, would not irritate so many people, as it seems to do now.

[prwjr]

It is a step within ballet, the raised leg must be over 90 degrees, if you check the picture in the top left of K C page, on or under would be from memory "a la hauteur".

 

I had a torrid affair in the 80s with a female ballet dancer, her body was so supple, the picture brought back painfull memories. I must go now to have my abs massaged 20 odd yrs later and they still ache regards

 

Ok...penche is the dictionary.com spelling...so I was unsure of the definition based on your spelling...and I'll bet the gal was HOT!!!

[Maracucha]

RCL for one you can prepay your tips on the final invoice and they give you slips of paper and envelopes to make things "easy" for you so I repeat my question, if a tip is personal between you and the person you are to tip, nothing to do with the line why do they profit from the interest acrued.

 

To the second point we know, the question is for all of the seasoned posters out there, thank you for your reply

 

I haven't cruised on RCL in a few years; so, I'm not familiar with their current tipping options. I see nothing wrong, however, in their accruing interest on monies they collect. I imagine they have an escrow account to hold fares, tips, excursion fees, etc. they might have to payback, partially or totally, in the event of a passenger cancelling. Sounds like an entirely reasonable business procedure. I probably would opt to have the autotip added to my onboard charge so the "accrued interest" would benefit my bank account rather than theirs until the arrival of my credit card bill.

 

Not sure what you meant by "we know" in your second sentence. Were you saying you know the answer to the question you were posing but were asking "seasoned posters" anyway? Blame it on the early hour here...before my first cup of coffee.

[standby 06.30]

I haven't cruised on RCL in a few years; so, I'm not familiar with their current tipping options. I see nothing wrong, however, in their accruing interest on monies they collect. I imagine they have an escrow account to hold fares, tips, excursion fees, etc. they might have to payback, partially or totally, in the event of a passenger cancelling. Sounds like an entirely reasonable business procedure. I probably would opt to have the autotip added to my onboard charge so the "accrued interest" would benefit my bank account rather than theirs until the arrival of my credit card bill.

 

Not sure what you meant by "we know" in your second sentence. Were you saying you know the answer to the question you were posing but were asking "seasoned posters" anyway? Blame it on the early hour here...before my first cup of coffee.

If you pay your final bill what refund do you get if you cancel? to the latter yes. regards