My Parents Just Got off the Fantasy - Bad Experience with some pax

[WeBeCruisin']

And it is a shame because Carnival has a good product overall for a reasonable price. I have said in the past, that it is the clientele that will drive us away from Carnival long before it is the product itself.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to try to make it sound like this is a problem unique to Carnival.

 

I've only been on Carnival twice, but I've been on Celebrity 3x and RCCL 5 times and I've seen more confrontations and rudeness on those lines than I've noticed on my Carnival cruises.

 

It's all a part of The Dumbing Down of America and is far more generalized than just on cruise lines.

 

I think it starts by not honoring the dress code. :D :eek: :D (Okay, I'm going to find a bunker to hide in now :) )

[skylock]

I hate to say this but in 19 cruises, five on Carnival, what your family experienced seems to be the norm. And more common on Carnival than on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, HAL and other lines. I guess that comes with a company that promotes itself as fun and "cheap". To many posting here, it seems that the ability to smuggle booze is more important than the quality of food, service or the overall quality of the cruise experience.

BTW. The term of bad habits is just an excuse for lack of class and common courtesy.

 

I wonder if you have just hit on a major cause of the problems many have exp on a carnival cruise. Myself included.

 

Carnival is the only line that I am aware of that basically turns a blind eye to booze smuggling.

 

Occasionally there is a crack down. My bag was tagged at one of those times and I wondered then why it was tagged and I had to go collect it because there was nothing in it that could be mistaken as booze. There were a lot of bags, and I mean A LOT, in that room that night, and 3 big bins full of booze already and I am sure lots more to come judging by how many bags were still in the room.

 

Now that I think about it, that was a very nice cruise, except my dining room staff. They were horrible. They were so horrible, it got funny.

[hdawson]

LHP. It is a shame that after Carnival has worked so hard to change their image from 25 years ago, there are those yookles that will actually drive some longtimel loyal Carnival cruisers to other lines, including me.

[LHP]

I'm not sure it's fair to try to make it sound like this is a problem unique to Carnival.

 

I've only been on Carnival twice' date=' but I've been on Celebrity 3x and RCCL 5 times and I've seen more confrontations and rudeness on those lines than I've noticed on my Carnival cruises.

 

It's all a part of The Dumbing Down of America and is far more generalized than just on cruise lines.

 

[b']I think it starts by not honoring the dress code. :D :eek: :D (Okay, I'm going to find a bunker to hide in now :) [/b])

 

You are correct. I did not mean to imply it was Carnival only...sorry. Carnival is just all we have ever cruised....so Carnival is all I know.

 

"in bold"....CUTE...very cute!!

[LHP]

I've had 4 experiences with Carnival and never once had this issue. I think considering all the sailings every week, of all those CCL ships, you're making a very broad and unqualified statement. Bad people can and do wind up on other lines as well.

Hell, when these disgusting people get old, they'll all be sailing HAL FTLOG ;)

 

You are right about it definately being a small number of occurances when you look at the scheme of things. However, then that "small number" happens to be your hard earned vacation...that gives little comfort.

[WeBeCruisin']

Carnival is the only line that I am aware of that basically turns a blind eye to booze smuggling.

quote]

 

Yet, Carnival is the only line I've been on which confiscated liquor bought in ports on shore as a gift and which was carried in my tote bag, and they made me show them that the bottle I brought on board in my carry-on when the cruise started was a Muscat dessert wine unavailable in the dining room, and not liquor for mixing my own drinks.

 

It seems that this thread may be devolving into a forum for the usual Carnival bashers to jump all over Carnival again. In my 14 cruises, I have found Carnival to be on a par with all the other lines I've been on except SeaDream (the former Seabourn Sea Goddess ships) but there was absolutely nothing to do on those and everyone was in bed by 10:00 pm. :)

 

There were only 52 people onboard the SeaDream I on my October 2001 trip to Spain, Gibraltar and the Canary Islands. They were a much older crowd (and I'm 66 :rolleyes: ) and I heard some of them complaining about the kind of people who would be so low-class as to wear a t-shirt with a logo on it on the ship on sea days around the pool. That's a little up-tight. :cool:

[spikester]

When I was onCL, they confiscated liquor,too, and let me just say, if yoiu do not have children Carnival is among the best in keeping them corraled.....

[Mikel1733]

 

This was clearly gangster language and that is not about bad habits. It is about intimidation and sexual harassment. I know, because I have been there. So don't tell me I have "read to much" into a situation that I have experience THREE times this year alone!!

 

So am I understanding you correctly that all 3 sailings from NOLA this year you've done have had a bad experience with this type of thing? If so, I can't see choosing this port for a sailing.

[LHP]

Carnival is the only line that I am aware of that basically turns a blind eye to booze smuggling.

quote]

 

Yet' date=' Carnival is the only line I've been on which confiscated liquor bought in ports on shore as a gift and which was carried in my tote bag, and they made me show them that the bottle I brought on board in my carry-on when the cruise started was a Muscat dessert wine unavailable in the dining room, and not liquor for mixing my own drinks.

 

It seems that this thread may be devolving into a forum for the usual Carnival bashers to jump all over Carnival again. In my 14 cruises, I have found Carnival to be on a par with all the other lines I've been on except SeaDream (the former Seabourn Sea Goddess ships) but there was absolutely nothing to do on those and everyone was in bed by 10:00 pm. :)

 

There were only 52 people onboard the SeaDream I on my October 2001 trip to Spain, Gibraltar and the Canary Islands. They were a much older crowd (and I'm 66 :rolleyes: ) and I heard some of them complaining about the kind of people who would be so low-class as to wear a t-shirt with a logo on it on the ship on sea days around the pool. That's a little up-tight. :cool:[/quote']

 

I certainly don't want to be a Carnival basher. 25 years later and they are still getting our business exclusively....they have certainly done something right.

 

However, we know there is a problem here and I would love nothing more to get it fixed so we can continue to cruise Carnival. If ignored, it will only get worse. I believe that cruisers should have a reasonable expectation that their 14 year old daughters (and younger) *or granddaughters* can walk down the Promenade in their cute little summer outfits without the cat calls and "suggestions" one would hear from a construction site. (F. baby!)

 

They should not be put in the situation of being uncomfortable, because some gangster thugs are following them around ... repeating these comments and worse. Sadly, this is what we have experienced on all 3 cruises from New Orleans this year to varying degrees. Only to be told there was nothing "security could do because these thugs are on vacation too!" Wrong answer.

 

Fortunately, it was not our daughters ( we have sons) but those of our tablemates. Because had it been our daughter, my husband would be in prison right now. This kind of behavior unchecked is what will give Carnival a reputation worse than the boose and booty rep it used to have.

[LHP]

 

So am I understanding you correctly that all 3 sailings from NOLA this year you've done have had a bad experience with this type of thing? If so, I can't see choosing this port for a sailing.

 

Sadly we don't plan to in the future. But in retrospect, it would happen from any port.

 

We did what we could to try to correct the problem. I wrote Carnival and they did listen. Sent a very nice OBC for our next cruise...but what we really want is the problem handled.

 

Let me say that we have sailed from New Orleans FOR YEARS without a problem. We have sailed from there on the smallest ship (Celebration ) to Carnival's largest ship (Conquest). I have friends who work on the Fantasy.

 

That is why we were shocked last December when we ran across this. We figured it was just a fluke..the unluck of the draw. We already had the March cruise booked and were taking 2 adults friends, so we did not cancel.

 

The March cruise still had it to some degree, but not as bad as December. My son was going back to college and we wanted to squeeze in a quick cruise, so we hit the Fantasy again in August. This one was the worst.

 

I try not to ever say never. But we have 4 more booked for next year and none of them are from New Orleans. Perhaps when they make the changes in 2009 and bring in a larger ship with more expensive cruise fares (a 7 day) we will take a look again.

 

And I really hate it, because we are finally in a position where we can cruise once a month if we want to and New Orleans is soooo convenient. But if it is a hassle, I don't care how convenient or cheap it is....it ain't a deal.

[LHP]

LHP. It is a shame that after Carnival has worked so hard to change their image from 25 years ago, there are those yookles that will actually drive some longtimel loyal Carnival cruisers to other lines, including me.

 

Carnival has been such a perfect fit for so long. They have been wonderful with our children...especially our son with autism. I guess a good thing never lasts forever! :(

[skylock]

Carnival is the only line that I am aware of that basically turns a blind eye to booze smuggling.

quote]

 

Yet' date=' Carnival is the only line I've been on which confiscated liquor bought in ports on shore as a gift and which was carried in my tote bag, and they made me show them that the bottle I brought on board in my carry-on when the cruise started was a Muscat dessert wine unavailable in the dining room, and not liquor for mixing my own drinks.

 

It seems that this thread may be devolving into a forum for the usual Carnival bashers to jump all over Carnival again. In my 14 cruises, I have found Carnival to be on a par with all the other lines I've been on except SeaDream (the former Seabourn Sea Goddess ships) but there was absolutely nothing to do on those and everyone was in bed by 10:00 pm. :)

 

There were only 52 people onboard the SeaDream I on my October 2001 trip to Spain, Gibraltar and the Canary Islands. They were a much older crowd (and I'm 66 :rolleyes: ) and I heard some of them complaining about the kind of people who would be so low-class as to wear a t-shirt with a logo on it on the ship on sea days around the pool. That's a little up-tight. :cool:[/quote']

 

 

I was not bashing Carnival. I only have three cruise lines to compare. 1 on Princess. Many on NCL and many on Carnival.

 

It COULD be coincidence, but I have never had a problem with any groups of people on NCL. In fact, I can never remember noticing any groups on NCL.

 

But I have had problems with groups on Carnival and that is just the plain truth.

 

I will admit there was only once I felt they took over the whole ship but there have been more than once it got to the point you recognized the people and would get up and leave when I saw them. Becauase I had already witnessed their behavior.

 

The cruise the group took over the ship, I was obviously not the only one to complain as I received a 25% off coupon for my next cruise and a "gift" in my stateroom.

[Mikel1733]

[

 

But I have had problems with groups on Carnival and that is just the plain truth.

 

I will admit there was only once I felt they took over the whole ship but there have been more than once it got to the point you recognized the people and would get up and leave when I saw them. Becauase I had already witnessed their behavior.

.

 

Our group problem was a high school graduating class from San Juan . We were on the Festivale which is a small ship. We couldn't avoid this group. They only had a handful of sponsors for the senior trip. We ran into the same people everywhere and they were always drunk. Not sure where they were getting the booze. But people openly puking on the decks and we couldn't follow the chatter as it was in spanish. Fortunately there were enough ports of call we could get off the ship during the day to avoid the mess.

[crusinsteve]

I know I'll probably get trashed for saying this, but after 31 cruises of which over 20 were on Carnival, I've have seen a change in demographics over the last decade and a half. Crusing at one time was for the rich and famous and about 15 years ago, it started to really attract mainstream people. It was mostly professional middle class white folks who saved a lot of money for a great vacation. Over the last four or five years it has changed. I won't be specific but lets say it is becoming less white middle class which is fine by me, however there is a element within other groups that bring a part of society we as past cruisers would not like to see. Gang activities, drugs, profanity, obnoxious behavior, intimidation, clothing styles that offend some people, crime, the list can go on. However on "mainstreet USA" we see this same activity and ignore it. On a ship its much more confining and its presented to us face to face. A lot of people are uncomfortable with it, but here is the point its not going away and it is becoming mainstream. My attitude is not to ignore it, but if it gets to a point where it upsets my vacation to a point where I don't enjoy crusing any more I will seek other forms of entertainment and move on. The cruise lines are not blind and if they see alot of people leaving because of the problems that are surfacing, they will change their policies. I recall a few years back when Spring breakers were tearing the ships up and driving away customers and the Carnival Line was known as the Party Boats. That image was changed and maybe this will be too! I'm not picking on any one group, just stating the facts as I have observed them. Keep on sailing. "Can't we just get along?";)

[LHP]

I know I'll probably get trashed for saying this, but after 31 cruises of which over 20 were on Carnival, I've have seen a change in demographics over the last decade and a half. Crusing at one time was for the rich and famous and about 15 years ago, it started to really attract mainstream people. It was mostly professional middle class white folks who saved a lot of money for a great vacation. Over the last four or five years it has changed. I won't be specific but lets say it is becoming less white middle class which is fine by me, however there is a element within other groups that bring a part of society we as past cruisers would not like to see. Gang activities, drugs, profanity, obnoxious behavior, intimidation, clothing styles that offend some people, crime, the list can go on. However on "mainstreet USA" we see this same activity and ignore it. On a ship its much more confining and its presented to us face to face. A lot of people are uncomfortable with it, but here is the point its not going away and it is becoming mainstream. My attitude is not to ignore it, but if it gets to a point where it upsets my vacation to a point where I don't enjoy crusing any more I will seek other forms of entertainment and move on. The cruise lines are not blind and if they see alot of people leaving because of the problems that are surfacing, they will change their policies. I recall a few years back when Spring breakers were tearing the ships up and driving away customers and the Carnival Line was known as the Party Boats. That image was changed and maybe this will be too! I'm not picking on any one group, just stating the facts as I have observed them. Keep on sailing. "Can't we just get along?";)

 

Very well said, Steve. Your time line is just about on the money. I was going to say that in the past 4 years, is when I have seen the decline.

 

Just like the problems that some time happen on the Destiny when it sails from San Juan, it is a challenge when different cultures clash. And just like on the Destiny, it is not every cruise.

 

In "mainstream" USA, we don't ignore it as much as we move away from it. And pay big money to do so. The homes in the suburb that we live in are very expensive because crime is low (2 murders in 15 years and both were gang related that came up from 20 miles away) , schools are great and we don't have to "ignore" it as much because it simply is not as visible as it is just 20 minutes away in Memphis (where murder and shootings are a daily event).

 

Everyone has their "acceptance" level that they are comfortable with...before it interferes with their vacation. When if Carnival continues to go "south", then we will just have to pay more money to cruise a cruiseline that does not tolerate this behavior.

 

Even with our last 3 Fantasy cruises, we have cruised enough to know things like this can happen. I did not come back and write "gang" obsessed reviews blasting Carnival. In fact, my review only had one reference to the sorry clientele Carnival gets sometimes. In fact, I recommended this cruise at the end, because I know that it does not happen on all cruises from that port. Just like it does not happen on every cruise on the Destiny.

 

But will we take it again any time soon, no. But that certainly does not mean no one else should. Again, everyone has their own level of acceptance. But I did mention it in the review so that they are aware that this can happen and make an informed decision.

 

Perhaps I am more sensitive the intimidation and harassment because I have a 16 year old son with autism and I see what he deals with every day from an ignorant culture in our society.

 

Ft Lauderdale solved the Spring Break problem by pricing the college kids out of their ability to party there. They recognized that "grey dollars" are where the money is. And now that is who they cater to.

 

More visible security with a different answer than "we can't do anything, they are on vacation too." would go a long way. As I stated earlier, if 50 or 100 folks showed up at the Purser's Desk to envoke the Carnival Vacation Guarantee and Carnival had to reimburse all that airfare or fix a problem...I think they would be fixing the problem.

[halos]

 

 

It COULD be coincidence, but I have never had a problem with any groups of people on NCL. In fact, I can never remember noticing any groups on NCL.

 

 

Maybe you just didn't notice any???? :confused:

Just got off an NCL cruise as part of a group of over 100 people, and yes, we had the tee shirts. ;)

 

 

[RolexRider]

The only group issue I had on the Fantasy, was that the Cat's Lounge (our fav spot) was closed one night due to a private event. :(

 

I have no doubt that the OP's family witnessed that behavior and that is a shame. I don't understand why folks feel it is OK to use that kind of language in public, let alone in front of children and nuns!!!!!!!!!!!!! Last year during Christmas time, a woman was yelling at the top of her lungs, MF this, and MerFer that, it caught me off guard, and I said (out loud) "Oh, my goodness", so the lady and her friends followed me around the store making fun of me yelling "Oh my goodness". People can be really disgusting sometimes!

 

I think it is silly that another poster's list of generalized complaints, included, that no one won in the casino, and that there were not enough "fun" activities on board.

 

If you go on a cruise to win big at the casino slots, boy are you in trouble. Cruiseship casinos cater to a captive audience, their slots don't have to "pay big" to lure customers, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Most folks go into the cruiseship casino to be entertained, and maybe win a little if they are playing slots. Table games and poker are games that the house can not control.

 

Carnival cruiseships (Fantasy included) have a ridiculous number of activities daily.

 

I am saddened that others have not had the wonderful experience that I had aboard the Fantasy. It goes to show you that every cruise is different, even aboard the same ship. It can be hit or miss, fortunately my cruises have all been hits!

 

 

i'm sorry the OP's family had a bad experience with the other passengers. i've read once or twice now about the crew being rude and that's only thing i questioned really. i never not anywhere i went experienced that personally or seen anyone else mistreated. i thought everyone was so friendly and went out of their way to be that way. as for ones saying there was enough to do i wonder did they read the capers and join in any of the fun cause to me there was LOTS to do. it was my first cruise so maybe there wasnt as much as other ships but to me there was more the enough things to do. one of the same ones saying the crew was rude even said the beatles show wasnt any good and i along with my husband and mom all thought it was fabulous. so like everyone on here has always said it is what you make of it and if you are not going on the ship with just having fun in mind maybe you wont. we all loved everything and have no complaints as first timers and will do it again maybe even the fantasy again since we had so much fun. i'm sorry that anyone on her didnt have a heck of a great time cause we sure did and i wouldnt have wanted my first cruise to be anything other than fun or i might not want to do it again.

[travelgrammy]

 

Did you really read all the posts, or just the ones you wanted to. In an earlier post, I went into GREAT detail about the "intention" of the words used and even used a dear friend with the mouth of a sailer as an example. GD and MF was out of his mouth every other second in normal conversation. And as I stated CLEARLY, he never spoke like that to intimiate, harass or demean. It was indeed just a very bad habit that he still has to this very day. He would not intentionally hurt someone's feelings for the world.

 

But very bad habits are not what is being discussed here. We have sailed with groups like this, from New Orleans on the Fantasy 3 times in the past year. I am speaking from personal experience. Some to more of a degree than others. This was clearly gangster language and that is not about bad habits. It is about intimidation and sexual harassment. I know, because I have been there. So don't tell me I have "read to much" into a situation that I have experience THREE times this year alone!!

 

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I certainly hope you would just get ALL the facts before forming it.

 

Yup, all of 'em. I admit I didn't realize that you were reacting to your own cruises, not the OP's relatives' cruise. Which makes your posts more understandable and less.....disconcerting. I still feel you're only assuming its the same thing, but I can see why you would.

 

But you know, last vacation we were on with my daughter, some (apparently) middle class white 20 somethings took it on themselves to scream the n-word at my daughter and the other young black women or girls walking around, together with other names and suggestions. (This was not on a cruise, I hasten to say. But the young people were drunk, and security didn't handle that too well, either.) Perhaps I should judge all middle class white 20 somethings as racists due to that incident and others like it?

[Barkingowl]

Sadly, there are rude, insensitive people everywhere including on cruise ships.

 

I found the same things you're referring to, to a far lesser extent, on the Conquest. Fortunately it was just a very small percentage of the passengers that engaged in such behavior. I hate it when these cretins lash out at the crew for no reason whatsoever. The staff work their collective tails off to provide a wonderful experience for everyone on board. Some people, however, seem to think they're owed special treatment.

 

Very well said. On my last cruise aboard Elation we had the usual compliment of rude people. But the ones that stand out to me even still were a group of gay men who were absolutely outraged that card players were allowed to play in the Lido Restaurant as the lunch crowd was starting to seat themselves. One man in particular who reminded me of Grizzly Adams, till he opened his mouth, was screaming at the maitre d' in a shrill voice. He was telling him that the card players should be ejected & that he would write to Carnival, blah, blah, blah... After his tirade was finished I went up to the maitre d' & I told him that he was doing a great job. I asked him how he dealt with passengers like that. He said that he listens to them, then responds to them in a foreign language! He said that sometimes its better to feign that he doesn't understand or speak English. :D

 

I've read a lot of reviews about the ships that I've sailed, most were good, some weren't. With the exception of one steward, all the members of the crew on the ships that I've sailed have done their jobs with pride & enthusiasm.

[mark3232]

I have been on over forty cruises so far in my lifetime and started at a young age and from what my parents have told me, Europe family trips cost less than a cruise in the late 60s and 70s. I have sailed on eleven different cruise lines and for me the worst has to be Celebrity and it’s one of the more expensive. I have found that Carnival is a pretty good bang for the buck when we are including our kids as with NCL. All that said, Unless you really want to drop some serious money on a five star cruise, they are all more or less the same. I think that what your getting on the five star is just better food and sometimes a larger cabin.

 

If the food is bad, send it back. If the service is bad, complain. We have found that the problem is usually dealt with at the time. And if not, talk to a supervisor until you feel that you were treated fair.

 

As far as groups, some times they can get into the way as in numbers, a group can be more aggressive. This is true as far as being the first in line for example. But I seldom find the whole group as a bunch of bad apples. When people drink there are always some that get loud and vulgar.

 

I have found that most people are just like you folks that are reading and posting on this forum. Overall a great bunch of folks. Every now and then you read something that is out of context but not very often. Your always going to find someone to the beat of a different drummer that see things.... well... (sort of like GW Bush).

[LHP]

 

Yup, all of 'em. I admit I didn't realize that you were reacting to your own cruises, not the OP's relatives' cruise. Which makes your posts more understandable and less.....disconcerting. I still feel you're only assuming its the same thing, but I can see why you would.

 

But you know, last vacation we were on with my daughter, some (apparently) middle class white 20 somethings took it on themselves to scream the n-word at my daughter and the other young black women or girls walking around, together with other names and suggestions. (This was not on a cruise, I hasten to say. But the young people were drunk, and security didn't handle that too well, either.) Perhaps I should judge all middle class white 20 somethings as racists due to that incident and others like it?

 

The difference here is...I don't make excuses for this middle class white 20 somethings. I would kick them off the ship just as fast as I would the "gangsters". Your incident is also an example of a group trying to intimidate and harass. That has no place on a cruise ship or in our society.

But you have to admit, that is it the "gangster" culture itself that is promoting it.

 

Your incident is a perfect example of your daughter paying the price for a "gangster" culture that I would assume they don't support.

 

As Bill Cosby said so well, if we don't want this to be the norm in our society (or on our vacations) I suggest we go to the source. And I believe he knows of which he speaks. I could have read him wrong, but something tells me he isn't all that concerned about middle class white 20 somethings. Love his new book btw, it should be required reading by everyone!!

[LHP]

Rowan has moved on where this subject is concerned and I think I will as well.

 

It is obvious that every cruise is going to have "someone" who was raised in a cave and has the manners of an ox....and they will be ignored.

 

It is also obvious that there are some cruises that have "groups that don't behave" or "to many kids that misbehave" or "to many drunks" . And if this happens in the future and Carnival does not handle it promptly, then my family will envoke the Carnival Vacation Guarantee.

 

Perhaps if Carnival has to shell out enough money for airfare and refund enough unused portions of cruises...they will find a solution.

 

Until then, all I can say is that I will act on a cruise the way I would like to be treated. I will be respectful of everyone regardless of race, creed, culture or choice of alcohol UNTIL they do something to lose that respect. This is how we have raised our boys and this is how we live our lives every day.

 

Something tells me this would be a better society if those simple directions were followed and repeated. We have friends from all over the world that we would never have met, except on a cruise. There are no less than a dozen different countries right now that I have a place to stay, if we ever are over their way. And it is all because we have treated staff, crew and passengers with the same respect that we treat each other with. From Jamaica to Dubrovnik to Kosovo. And that is a great feeling.

[travelgrammy]

 

The difference here is...I don't make excuses for this middle class white 20 somethings. I would kick them off the ship just as fast as I would the "gangsters". Your incident is also an example of a group trying to intimidate and harass. That has no place on a cruise ship or in our society.

But you have to admit, that is it the "gangster" culture itself that is promoting it. As Bill Cosby said so well, if we don't want this to be the norm in our society (or on our vacations) I suggest we go to the source. And I believe he knows of which he speaks. I could have read him wromg, but something tells me he isn't all that concerned about middle class white 20 somethings.

 

I haven't made excuses for anyone, either. I'm not really sure why you'd think I did. And I really don't know anything about the "gangster culture", but I kind of doubt that's what inspired these louts. Not when it was only directed at black and biracial women. What Bill Cosby's worried about or not worried about has nothing to do with me, BTW. A young girl being harrassed because some idiot doesn't like her skin color--that concerns me. Esp. when it's my daughter.

 

Anne

[travelgrammy]

 

The difference here is...I don't make excuses for this middle class white 20 somethings. I would kick them off the ship just as fast as I would the "gangsters". Your incident is also an example of a group trying to intimidate and harass. That has no place on a cruise ship or in our society.

But you have to admit, that is it the "gangster" culture itself that is promoting it.

 

Your incident is a perfect example of your daughter paying the price for a "gangster" culture that I would assume they don't support.

 

Well, my younger daughter's had a crush on the young Frank Sinatra since she was 14....oh, you probably weren't referring to that gangster culture, huh?:) No, we don't support "gangster culture". My older daughter is working with groups that expose and condemn lyrics in rap music that denigrate women and glorify violence, MOF. And the younger daughter listens to country and classic rock, as well as early recordings of Frank Sinatra. The older has been married 4 1/2 years and has a 2 1/2 year old daughter, and the younger is a senior at a private women's college and mentors a 14 year old girl. We're pretty much middle class, not underclass. BIG difference. BTW, after saying you don't make excuses for that....you just did.

[NCTribeFan]

You know, I was just over on the RCI board reading horror stories about the Jewel cruise which had a large group. Apparently, large numbers of passengers left the ship because of the activities of some of the group members.

 

It isn't just Carnival, folks. It isn't just one demographic.

 

Of course things have changed when it comes to cruising. It is no longer a "rich" persons vacation. If it were, I'd know nothing about it, because I am NOT rich.

 

Unless cruise passengers somehow unite to require the cruiselines to have a Cruise Passenger Bill of Rights where we'll somehow force the cruiselines to enforce their rules of behaviour and force them to disclose (without violating privacy laws) the fact that there ARE groups sailing and give other passengers the option to change their bookings, without penalty, all we can do is complain to the individual cruise lines.

 

I'm guessing groups are such a large source of revenue that they will pay absolutely no attention. The other option is to find other ways to vacation.