Has anyone considered the impact....

[MamaParrotHead]

of new immigration laws and travelling/cruising? I've followed the early days of our Presidential race fairly closely, and it didn't occur to me (until reading one of the posts here about someone slipping through Customs after doing self-debarkation). If whoever is elected wants to really batten down the hatches, what will that mean for people who travel (other than requiring passports, which I personally think is ridiculous we haven't been actually REQUIRED to so about 50 years ago)?

 

Just curious what fellow CCL cruisers thought, based on the minor hiccups that occur in our cruises when we have to do the whole "Customs and Immigration" thing.

[hogtyde88]

Temprarily inconveniecing 2500 cruisers to try to help keep the other 303,205,450 US citizens safe??....The nerve!

 

Honestly...I think we all agree something must be done. If it means I am delayed another hour or so..so be it. I'll just figure it into my travel plans.

[L2J]

Temprarily inconveniecing 2500 cruisers to try to help keep the other 303,205,450 US citizens safe??....The nerve!

 

Honestly...I think we all agree something must be done. If it means I am delayed another hour or so..so be it. I'll just figure it into my travel plans.

 

I'll second that.

[MamaParrotHead]

Temprarily inconveniecing 2500 cruisers to try to help keep the other 303,205,450 US citizens safe??....The nerve!

 

Honestly...I think we all agree something must be done. If it means I am delayed another hour or so..so be it. I'll just figure it into my travel plans.

 

I just wondered if anyone could pinpoint anything specific that may be done.

[2 rednecks]

just curious was it my post about slipping through? if so it blew my mind that nothing was checked, and all the way home 3 hour drive it bothered me that i was in the middle of manhattan with almost anything that i could have grabbed while in port and no one in customs cared, it also bothered me that i didn't try and bring home more ciggeretes or liquor since that never checked anything. I felt awkard like i missed something or a checkpoint but they just kept pointing me till i got to my car and there was no one else where i was just the DW and I but we went where they told us too and pointed us on.

[MamaParrotHead]

just curious was it my post about slipping through? if so it blew my mind that nothing was checked, and all the way home 3 hour drive it bothered me that i was in the middle of manhattan with almost anything that i could have grabbed while in port and no one in customs cared, it also bothered me that i didn't try and bring home more ciggeretes or liquor since that never checked anything. I felt awkard like i missed something or a checkpoint but they just kept pointing me till i got to my car and there was no one else where i was just the DW and I but we went where they told us too and pointed us on.

 

That's crazy. Port security and Customs seems to be very inconsistent. That happened to you in NY, yet my husband was questioned about where and when he got his wristwatch when we were going through Customs on our last trip? And me, who got busted for a CHRISTMAS ornament when going through secorty at the airport coming back from our last cruise (it was the metal ship models, which is understandable, it probably looked like it could be a weapon of some sort) BUT the obviously affluent lady in the line next to me who had a FULL SIZE (atleast 12-14 oz.) bottle of expensive "perfume", and the Security agents just kind of smiled and "hush hushed" her AND her full size bottle of perfume right through the check point.

 

Not to mention all the mid-blowing specials they run on the news about smuggling nuclear material into the ports and bomb making supplies on to planes.

 

I honestly don't know how much safer we are then we were pre-9/11. Any thoughts?

[skylock]

just curious was it my post about slipping through? if so it blew my mind that nothing was checked, and all the way home 3 hour drive it bothered me that i was in the middle of manhattan with almost anything that i could have grabbed while in port and no one in customs cared, it also bothered me that i didn't try and bring home more ciggeretes or liquor since that never checked anything. I felt awkard like i missed something or a checkpoint but they just kept pointing me till i got to my car and there was no one else where i was just the DW and I but we went where they told us too and pointed us on.

 

That sounds about like usual. I have never had anything checked when getting off a cruise ship. Flying was a little different. Last June, flew to Cancun from Houston. When we got to Cancun, son's passport was "over inspected" in my opinion, but he was finally let go. But what REALLY upset me was when I was getting ready to go home, I was cleaning my fanny pack out and found a small very sharp pair of sissors (the kind you remove sutures with) at the very bottom. I had had no problem getting on the plane in Houston with them. So why did I have to stand in line 20 min with my shoes in my hand? Luckily they had confiscated the woman in for of me perfume. Think how dangerous she could have been.

 

When we got to Houston, we were part of a group that was lined up and a dog "sniffed" us. One old lady went nuts and I thought she must have something, but it turned out she was just scared of dogs.

[sixgun8]

little off topic, but kinda same thing.

 

few years ago we went into Juarez. Coming back across we waited the hour plus in line in 100 degree heat. Reporters interviewing us about the heat every 20 minutes. Being from Kansas we were used to it, and it wasn't humid so oh well. I digress. We went through and declared our tequila and was instructed to go to the building to pay the fed taxes on the liquor. As we got to that door a guard held us up and briefly spoke to another inside and told us we were tax free that day. Apperently they busted someone with about a 3 foot long cart of Marijuana and they were logging it in. They could not have us in the building at the same time.

 

 

We felt good about being tax free. It was nice. But kinda bothered us a bit.

 

 

As for going through the inconvenience, I have no problem being inconvenienced if it means that we have one less illegal immigrant that will rash into my car without a license or insurance and get off scott free. Or any other number of illegal things that are being committed by these illegals that inconvenience me in my everyday life. I live in SW Kansas and this town is influxed with illegals. It is commonly known. The School district has a list of all the illegals that they MUST provide education to. But this is the wrong forum for this type of discussion and nothing good can come of this so I will leave it at that.

[sakapfet]

Temprarily inconveniecing 2500 cruisers to try to help keep the other 303,205,450 US citizens safe??....The nerve!

 

 

Our founding fathers must be turning in their graves. I'm afraid This country has lost ist soul:

 

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion; what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free ... it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite." -- Thomas Jefferson (i.e. the Clintons and the Bushes)

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."-- Thomas Jefferson

[BeyondKen]

Temprarily inconveniecing 2500 cruisers to try to help keep the other 303,205,450 US citizens safe??....The nerve!

I'm sure this prevented many Al Queda attacks on our country.

[MamaParrotHead]

I'm not asking about pros and cons of "big government" or anything else politcal. I also don't think we need to turn this into a history lesson.

 

What is everyone's thoughts on what we might be able to expect, should whoever gets elected, decide to tighten US borders and immigration?

[Kempa]

I don’t think that presidential politics or immigration law has anything to do with procedures for entering the country, regardless of who gets elected.

 

What impacts cruisers is which procedures are in place for arrival at any US port of entry. The function of the immigration officials is to verify that the person seeking entrance is actually entitled to do so, either by being a citizen or by having an appropriate visa. The function of the customs officials is to verify that everything brought into the country is legal, and if so, if duties are due on the goods.

 

On my last two cruises, I had considerable waits at immigration. Arriving in Galveston, the procedures were pretty much like at airports: citizens and permanent residents get the quick check, and visitors get the long check. We were with Mexican friends and it took us about two hours to clear immigration. My last cruise arrived in New York, and the procedures were different. Citizens got no line, just a quick look at the passport. Foreigners (permanent residents and visitors) stood in line and were cleared as at the airport. So, you can see that something is clearly being done, and I am sure that if anyone looked suspicious, they would have been searched as is done at airports.

 

If you consider that most cruises start and end in US territory, it is fair to consider that whoever is arriving back has entered the US, then left at the port of origin from the US. Of all the options for entering the US – airports, seaports, land crossings – the cruise terminals at seaports are by far the least likely to be used by anyone seeking illegal entry. It is fair to consider that whoever returns to the US on a cruise has the right to enter the country.

 

The only aspect that might have an impact from elections and immigration policy is the case of foreign passengers cruising round-trips leaving from US ports. In that case, depending on who gets elected, it might become much more difficult to obtain a visitor visa to the US. I believe that we would see more departures from foreign ports. Foreign passengers make up a good portion of cruisers. Some cruise lines might move their departures from Florida to the Bahamas, from San Juan to Jamaica, or from Southern California to the Baja ports as already happens.

[MamaParrotHead]

If you consider that most cruises start and end in US territory, it is fair to consider that whoever is arriving back has entered the US, then left at the port of origin from the US. Of all the options for entering the US – airports, seaports, land crossings – the cruise terminals at seaports are by far the least likely to be used by anyone seeking illegal entry. It is fair to consider that whoever returns to the US on a cruise has the right to enter the country.

 

If this is a commonly held idea, which I'm sure it is, don't you think it's occured to those who mean to do us harm? In other words, "You know that, and *I* know that...why wouldn't *they* know that?". It's been my belief that with the funding the "bad guys" have, that nothing is impossible. Which is why I think we should be taking even THAT much closer of a look at who and what are coming in and going out of our country.

[NCTribeFan]

I have no idea what we might expect.

 

And we're not exactly the same country we were 200 years ago, either. Times change. Circumstances change.

 

Anyway, I was flying out of Manchester, UK, a couple of years after the Lockerbie/Pan Am Flight 103 bombing. The security line was VERY long. Having traveled to the UK several times, I was used to heightened security, what with the IRA bombings that were still a factor at that time.

 

Several of my fellow (American) passengers complained long and loud about how stupid it was for them to have to arrive at the airport so far in advance of their flight and to have to stand in the security line and be questioned.

 

I finally turned to the loudmouth woman behind me and asked her how she'd feel about airport security if she were on a plane that exploded in mid-air?

 

Oh wait! She'd be dead! She couldn't complain then!

 

If you want to feel secure, you'll have to deal with the little inconviences that you encounter.

 

If you feel it's an invasion of privacy, then stay at home and don't travel.

[WeLuvVacation]

First of all, you are never going to be 100% safe.

 

With that in mind, you get what you pay for. You hire retired SS collectors to inpect the ID at airport security and you will get a Burger King type job out of them. You hire well trained, intelligent personnel who will not allow late pax to bypass all security proceedures and go through security on a cats lick and a promise that they are not a terrorist. And yup I've seen this happen several times, and not at LAX or McCarren or JFK or some other uber busy airport but lowly out of the way MacArthur Airport in Islip Long Island, NY! One of the slowest airports in the US!

 

And I agree 1,000% security needs to be 10,000% tighter. But 99% of all travellers will not see it the same way!

[PJBUCHEIT]

just curious was it my post about slipping through? if so it blew my mind that nothing was checked, and all the way home 3 hour drive it bothered me that i was in the middle of manhattan with almost anything that i could have grabbed while in port and no one in customs cared, it also bothered me that i didn't try and bring home more ciggeretes or liquor since that never checked anything. I felt awkard like i missed something or a checkpoint but they just kept pointing me till i got to my car and there was no one else where i was just the DW and I but we went where they told us too and pointed us on.

 

This exact thing happened to us when we left the San Diego port this past Nov. I was totally amazed that the just pushed on through. Took our customs card, did not even bother to look at it. They also did not even check the amounts of liquor that we were bring back.

[dan40]

of new immigration laws and travelling/cruising? I've followed the early days of our Presidential race fairly closely, and it didn't occur to me (until reading one of the posts here about someone slipping through Customs after doing self-debarkation). If whoever is elected wants to really batten down the hatches, what will that mean for people who travel (other than requiring passports, which I personally think is ridiculous we haven't been actually REQUIRED to so about 50 years ago)?

 

Just curious what fellow CCL cruisers thought, based on the minor hiccups that occur in our cruises when we have to do the whole "Customs and Immigration" thing.

 

We have been required to have passports all these years. Try going anywhere outside of North and Central America or on a cruiseship without one. The islands and countries around the Caribbean are generally poor and have accepted US $ in lieu of passports. That's the only real change that's happening. Other nations around the world have had to contend with terrorists for years. They require passports and watch their borders closely, but crossing borders legally with proper documents [passport] is not a problem. Our open borders for years have not been indicative of our free society. Our open borders have been indicative of our political insanity.

Needing passports for all extra US travel should not cause problems.

 

Dan

[MamaParrotHead]

I don’t think that presidential politics or immigration law has anything to do with procedures for entering the country, regardless of who gets elected.

 

In the commentary following the NH Primaries, politcal analysts were discussing immigration polices of the various candidates. I don't remember who it was, or which candidate, but one of the candidates was proposing (as part of his plan on immigration) all immigrants be required to carry special ID's or papers. Then the analyst said that, to keep from going the route of racial profiling, then it would make sense EVERYONE should be required to have such documentation on them at all times. If something like this should become a reality, I'm thinking it could cause some serious delays in every day life, let alone travelling.

[Kempa]

If this is a commonly held idea, which I'm sure it is, don't you think it's occured to those who mean to do us harm? In other words, "You know that, and *I* know that...why wouldn't *they* know that?". It's been my belief that with the funding the "bad guys" have, that nothing is impossible. Which is why I think we should be taking even THAT much closer of a look at who and what are coming in and going out of our country.

 

Of course they could think of that. Putting that in gear is a lot harder, though, because the person would already have to be here legally (otherwise they wouldn't be able to get back in).

 

I think that it is still easier for someone who wants to do harm to enter through one of the land crossings or airports. Some cars get searched, some don't. Some passengers' luggage gets searched, some don't. I have entered the US some twenty times by air in the last ten years. Only once my baggage was searched, and it was when I came back with some cardboard boxes. They were x-rayed but not opened.

[yst347]

I'd like to add one comment here. I am not advocating a position, just pointing out something as yet unmentioned.

 

On a cruise every passenger is required to provide proof of identity. The ship's manifest is submitted to CBP long before the ship returns from its itinerary. Unless you self-debarked your checked bags were probably sniffed by dogs before you reclaimed them. While that doesn't excuse CBP for a passenger being sent to the street before his/her passport is inspected, it isn't quite the same as a plane load of passengers that just boarded a few hours earlier landing in JFK and walking directly onto the street.

 

What I do advocate is the passport requirements. Passports are secure documents that are issued under one set of standards by the state department, as opposed to DL's and BC's which are state issued under a variety of changing conditions. Once passports become uniformly mandatory for border crossings, security will be substantially improved. This single measure may not be wholly adequate but it is a good place to start. measures to "seal the border" cannot be implemented by a President waiving a wand. The biggest obstacle to improved border security is the Congress, which passes measures to that effect but won't appropriate the money to implement them for a variety of reasons, most of which are political.

[MamaParrotHead]

Of course they could think of that. Putting that in gear is a lot harder, though, because the person would already have to be here legally (otherwise they wouldn't be able to get back in).

 

I think that it is still easier for someone who wants to do harm to enter through one of the land crossings or airports. Some cars get searched, some don't. Some passengers' luggage gets searched, some don't. I have entered the US some twenty times by air in the last ten years. Only once my baggage was searched, and it was when I came back with some cardboard boxes. They were x-rayed but not opened.

 

I don't travel SUPER frequently, but usually by air atleast once a year and ALWAYS domestic. And, without fail, I ALWAYS get the little note inside my suitcase that states my things were searched. Plus my getting yanked out of security line while entering MIA (for the Christmas ornament, I mentioned earlier), LOL. Point in case of the major inconsistencies here.:)

[Kempa]

I don't remember who it was, or which candidate, but one of the candidates was proposing (as part of his plan on immigration) all immigrants be required to carry special ID's or papers. Then the analyst said that, to keep from going the route of racial profiling, then it would make sense EVERYONE should be required to have such documentation on them at all times. If something like this should become a reality, I'm thinking it could cause some serious delays in every day life, let alone travelling.

 

But you do need proper photo ID to travel. You need it to board any commercial aircraft, you need it to enter the country. And I certainly don't leave home without at least my driver's license. If I am going to be away for more than just a few days, I also carry my passport and my green card. I don't know if my travel plans will change, so I think it is safe to carry them.

[MamaParrotHead]

But you do need proper photo ID to travel. You need it to board any commercial aircraft, you need it to enter the country. And I certainly don't leave home without at least my driver's license. If I am going to be away for more than just a few days, I also carry my passport and my green card. I don't know if my travel plans will change, so I think it is safe to carry them.

 

In larger cities and such, plus children, don't have driver's licenses? And I'm unclear as to the requirements for foreign citizens to get a license? If they can (which for some reason, I'm thinking they can), then one would need to either have something on your current ID to denote you as a US citizen (which, if you think about it, the majority of DOT's are so overloaded as it IS, would not be a great option), or establish a whole other whole agency to handle, issue and track citizenship. It's things like THAT I'm wondering about.

[Kempa]

And, without fail, I ALWAYS get the little note inside my suitcase that states my things were searched. Plus my getting yanked out of security line while entering MIA (for the Christmas ornament, I mentioned earlier), LOL. Point in case of the major inconsistencies here.:)

 

You probably raise a flag on TSA's computers for some reason. Either someone with a name similar to yours is blacklisted, or your suitcase might look like something that they were told to look for, or you have something that looks like something else when it goes through x-ray.

 

I don't think my suitcase was ever searched when flying domestically or internationally. The only time I was stopped for further examination was when I had to change my plans and bought a ticket 30 minutes before departure. They do check on passengers that do that.

[Philip217]

MamaparrotHead,

 

You will be happy to learn that most Asian Countries - including the largest country on earth (China) - require citizens and foreigners to carry an official national ID at all times. Not one of them has encountered any problems with this.

 

Not one has any problems with terrorists crashing airplanes into tall buildings, nor millions of undocumented illegal aliens wandering around.