Warning - Holland America Club Hal

[sargenet]

I just learned a valuable lesson about Holland America. I have a 4 year old son and was looking for a short cruise to take with my sister. I have cruised on all the other lines (without kids) and wanted to see how my son would do on a short cruise. I have been on Disney twice (without kids) but was waiting to go on that later for 7 days when my husband could come.

 

I started comparing the short cruises and found out Holland America was having a 3 day cruise. Normally they sail 7 or longer. I had researched all the children's programs and called Holland America (HAL) to see about their children's program. I was looking to be able to take my son for a meal at the buffet, and then let him go to the children's program so I could have dinner with my sister and see a show. No problem the agent from HAL tells me. Since the cruise was April 19th, I had to pay for the cruise in full, which I did last night.

 

Today I called Ship's Services to ask a question about Club Hal on port days. The reservation agent told me one thing, and the web site said a different thing. Ship's Services informed me that Club Hal doesn't open till 8pm and closes at 10pm. That totally contradicted what I was told. She suggest I immediately call back reservations and ask them to cancel my cruise so I could book on Carnival or RCCL since I had just made it last night.

 

After hours on the phone .. 2 lead supervisors, and then the department supervisor.... I was told that I could not cancel and I would lose $759.13 if I did not go on the cruise. I was floored. I guess the director of reservations (who does not speak to customers) said that just because my dinner plans were disrupted, doesn't allow me to cancel my contract. She could care less that it hadn't even been 24 hours. It didn't matter that the agent gave me totally incorrect info.

 

The one thing they told me was the staff would try to help me out by babysitting my son "in our cabin" so we could go to dinner. Not the Club Hal staff... just other staff that wanted to make some money... and yes, I would have to pay them to do this. As a token they are giving me $50 to pay the staff to watch him.

 

I don't know about anyone else... but there is no way I am going to let some stranger come into my room and watch my son. Especially from 6:30 till 8:00pm. And what in the world would he do anyway in the cabin? Watch tv?

 

HAL states that they have an age group from 3-7. Their web site states they have evening activities... but no where does it say it starts at 8pm. I found out this is very common on all their sailings...

 

If the agent had told me 8:00pm (I asked her lots of questions about their program) then I would have picked another cruise line.

 

Just something to be aware of if you do have a small child.

 

I was looking forward to this cruise, now I dread trying to get through a long dinner with my son. We deliberately took him out tonight to Ruby Tuesday to see how he did.... he can sit still long enough to eat... and then the wiggles hit... along with the turning around, laying in his seat etc... I was worn out after 30 minutes! So much for a peaceful meal... that was my one BIG request for this cruise (and my sister's too).

[crusinmama06]

I totally agree that they should have given you the correct info when you booked. There is no excuse for that.

 

But being the parent of a energetic 3 year old who does go to main seating dinner, I have to ask....you had to "test" your 4 year old at Ruby Tuesdays? You don't take him out to restaurants?

 

Is there an alternative dining option on Hal that you can go to with your son?

 

This is a 3 day cruise. You are a mom. Sometimes we have to make a sacrifice for our children. And not eating in the dining room on a short 3 day cruise is a small sacrifice.

 

I cruise with 2 kids, alone, sometimes when my hubby doesn't take off work. It can be done, if you are willing to try.

[Dr_DNA]

On such a short cruise, I would say that skipping the main dinning room shouldn't be a great sacrafice. I've never considered HAL but I assume that they have alternative dinning, including buffet that should be a win-win for you both. I wouldn't let this get to me; God knows I've made greater sacrafices for my son and have no regrets whatsoever. I can totally understand being upset about being told one thing and then another and another. However, look on the positive- you're going on a cruise- and ENJOY. There are so many other great things on a cruise to enjoy besides the dinning.

 

A side note: Personally, I, like my son, would rather "do something" than sit through a 2+ hour meal.

[sargenet]

I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal for me... if this were a cruise I planned for my benefit. My sister lives in another state and has breast cancer.. she was stage 4 but has been holding on for the last few years better than anyone could expect. Thank goodness for Cancer Treatment Centers of America. They really have performed miracles when 2 other doctors gave her no hope.

 

I haven't been able to see her much over the years. We are a military family and have moved many times. I wanted to take my sister on a trip somewhere so we could get away and have some "quality" time. We decided on a cruise because "based on the children's program" we thought it would be a perfect way for us to sit for a nice, long dinner alone and have some bonding time. The evening hours were what we looked forward to the most.. knowing that our son would be down by 9:30 any given night no matter what. We knew we would be back in the cabin then.

 

Yes, we go out to eat out with my son all the time, and we know what that is like. He is very hyper and will probably be "officially" diagnosed with ADHD at 6. His preschool teacher/school social worker/pyschologist have told us this however they said it is best to wait for a full diagnosis until he is older. He doesn't sit well for long periods of time..

 

So this is why I tried to research the children's programs and find the very program that allowed us a nice, long dinner together. That is what my sister requested more than anything. She has to watch her heat/sun exposure so her time out during the day is more limited.

 

That is why I was so bothered about the info being incorrect. Yes, normally I wouldn't care about dinner on deck. Next time I take a cruise with my husband and son we will skip the more formal dining.

 

Holland America is aware of the situation with my sister now. That is why they have offered to help us and have staff babysit my son. They are going to help provide staff to watch him during the dinner hours. I think that is great that they are going out of their way to do this, but like I said before, I don't feel comfortable with stranger being alone in the cabin with my son.

 

I just felt that since it hadn't been 24 hours, it would have been easier to let us cancel. And believe me, they didn't offer the babysitting at first. That was after hours and hours of discussions....

 

My sister did say it would be ok. She said we will work with our son and see how it goes. I just wanted anyone who was considering a family cruise to be aware of the 8pm start time. It isn't posted on their website, and most of the agents don't quote it.

[Dr_DNA]

I'm not a lawyer, but I just had an idea. You may want to check into the laws of your state and/or the laws of the state where you entered into a contract with the cruise company. I'm not sure which one applies when you enter into a contract across state lines. The reason I say this is that in Maryland, you have the right to void any contract that you enter into within 72 hours of signing it for ANY REASON. Other states may have similar laws so it is at least worth looking into.

[adamsmom]

Just a thought--when is the late seating dinner? On most cruises I've been on, it was at 8pm. You could feed your son in the buffet and then take him to the kids' program, leaving you and your sister to a peaceful meal in the dining room.

[PennyAgain]

She asked all the proper questions. I think that Holland America should give her a full refund.

 

Holland America sometimes has a weak program for children based on the number of children on board.

 

I agree with this Mother about not wanting her child to be alone with a stranger in their bedroom.

 

I think she should telephone her credit card company and tell the story.

[6rugrats]

It's true that Club Hal closes down in the late afternoon and doesn't usually open up again until 8:00. It is typical that a phone agent would not know that. While I honestly think ADHD has been totally over diagnosed, I understand the difference between an "energetic" and a truly hyperactive child.

 

I also understand your frustration and desire to have a peaceful, quiet dinner with your sister, but it does appear that HAL has actually tried to help you out with this. I am not sure why you would not at least try the in cabin babysitting. Most of the crew are great with kids.

 

In addition, it may be a good idea as suggested, to get the late dining, which is after 8:00 and then you could have your son go to Club Hal. It would be past his bedtime, but you could at least have a peaceful dinner. I don't know why HAL would not work with you on that, even if they state that late dining is closed.

 

Also, if you have to take your son to dinner with you, there is the Lido dining option. Much less pressure regarding worrying about bothering someone else. Or, if you go to the main dining room, make sure HAL assigns you to a small table with just you and your sister. The wait staff is great with kids and will do everything possible to help you. They will not care if he has to lay down in a seat; we had late dining and no one blinked an eye when my 8 year old did this when she was exhausted. Have you considered letting your son bring some sort of game system (Gameboy) or a DVD player to dinner? That might keep him occupied. Sometimes if they have something they really want to do, they are better at concentrating.

 

Good luck to you and I hope you have a great cruise. I hope it will work out.

[sargenet]

I have no problem working with HAL based on what they have offered to do for me. And if I need to do go on this cruise, then we will make the best of it. But honestly, since the discrepancy in the program was caught less than 24 hours after it was made, I would think HAL would do the right thing and let me cancel so I could book the April 17th Carnival sailing from their sister company. I just feel that is the "right" thing to do.

 

As a seasoned cruiser, I felt like I tried to research to the best of my ability. I called Disney, RCCL, Celebrity, Princess and spoke to them in regards to their children's programs. I read posts on the family cruising forum and heard great things about HAL's program.

 

The true deciding factor for me was the start time of the program. I decided against another cruise line because they had a later start time on their program. I asked specific info directly from a HAL reservation agent, and based my decision on that.

 

We'll work from there...

[mousecrazy]

Since HAL knows about your special situation and has offered to help out with sitting...maybe they would allow the sitter and your son to use the children's area instead of your cabin. Just a thought...

[crusinmama06]

I would quickly try to fire off some letters to customer service. I am not familiar with HAL so I don't have the addresses off hand. But I would get it in writing.

 

You know how the squeaky wheel gets the oil. ;) So start squeaking. :D

[sargenet]

As a matter of fact... I guessed at the email address of the VP of Guest Programs and sent off an email last night. This morning a response was waiting for me from him and he said he would get involved immediately. He said he or one of his senior staff would be getting back to me very shortly.

 

If HAL can commit to me that the staff would help "entertain" my son outside of my cabin, specifically in the Club Hal facility.. that would be perfect. I asked this question and I was told it would be up to the staff once on the cruise to decide if they would do this outside of my cabin.

 

If they had made a committment to me to have someone available at say 7pm...in Club Hal... I would jump all over that and be very happy. But as of right now they left it up in the air on when and "if" they could do it. All those decisions would be left up to the staff once I got on board.

 

6rugrats had stated that it was typical on Club Hal not to open till 8pm and that an agent might not have known that. The reason I spoke to each cruise line directly (and not an agent) was to make sure I knew the times of the programs. If I ask an agent from HAL directly, shouldn't I trust their answer if they tell me they are open?

 

Funny thing is how many different answers you get on kids programs. I had an agent from Cruise.com tell me that Carnival absolutely did not have an evening program for 2-5 year olds... only older kids. She even argued the point! I made sure I spoke directly with 2 Carnival agents and even asked one to send me "in email" the hours for the program. (I just did that today in case HAL does let me cancel).

 

I thought by talking directly to a reservation agent from HAL I would get the most accurate info....

[bmgaritty]

Wouldn't eating late seating and sending your son to Club HAL solve the problem?

 

Feed him in the Lido, then send him to Club HAL at 8:00.

 

Or you can do in-room sitting as they have also suggested.

 

Those are the 2 options that are available - why not use them?

[sas80]

You entered into a contract with HAL based on information given to you by one of THEIR customer service representatives. If you had been given correct information, you would have chosen not to book.

 

I would call my credit card company and dispute the charge, explaining the situation and that HAL refuses to refund the charges.

 

Start documentiing everyting that you remember - times, dates, conversations, names, even if it is general "spoke to a CS rep at 9:30 am on blah blah and was told" and all conversations you have from here on out. Be as specific as possible.

 

I think HAL misrepresented themselves....

 

Good luck!

[sargenet]

bmgaaritty:

 

The reason I didn't want to take him that late was because he would be very tired by then. He is an early riser and is always in bed by 8:30. After a full day of activities, sun and beach, he won't be able to make it that late. He is only 4. I was specifically looking for a cruise that had a program starting at 6:00pm. That way I had enough time to have dinner, relax and then I could put him in bed at a decent time. This is a very short cruise (only 3 days), so it would not give us a great deal of time to "adjust" his schedule. That might of worked out if we had a longer cruise to get him to adjust. I could get his schedule adjusted a little better.

 

Maybe I should ask HAL to put me on the 6 day cruise that sails before this one for the same price!!! Ha!! Wishful thinking!!!

[6rugrats]

6rugrats had stated that it was typical on Club Hal not to open till 8pm

 

No, I said it was typical that the person on the phone, who probably has never even been on a HAL ship, did not know that. And really, how could they, because their own webpage does not have the hours clearly stated! Yes, you should be able to trust an employee of a company, but unfortunately, my experience is you can call and speak with six different people and get six different answers.

 

Our experience is that Club HAL hours can vary by ship and by the number of children on board. It's not carved in stone. On our cruise, Club HAL was not always open when it was supposed to be, nor did they always follow the posted schedule as to the planned activities. However, this was usually not a problem for us.

 

If you can't work this out, I would immediately dispute the charge with my CC company. I had to do this with NCL and AMEX and it was a huge hassle, but eventually, I received my money back.

[crusinmama06]

As a matter of fact... I guessed at the email address of the VP of Guest Programs and sent off an email last night. This morning a response was waiting for me from him and he said he would get involved immediately. He said he or one of his senior staff would be getting back to me very shortly.

...

 

Great! That's good news. Keep us updated.

[Karysa]

I have never sailed HAL. I actually just booked another family cruise and I checked all main stream cruiselines except HAL and my girls are 12 and 14. The dates and ports were perfect for us. What I have read on CC and from the TV commercials has made me believe that HAL is not as "child friendly" as the other lines. I think that they should have refunded your money though. I think that you acted quickly and that it is bad business and poor PR. Look what good PR they could have gotten if your post would have said " I am so impressed by HAL". I suggest trying to get late seating as well and even if it starts early like 7:30 you can feed your son at the buffet and have him come and have a little snack or dessert and take him up to the kids program when it opens and return to dinner. I hope that you make the best of it and have a great cruise.

Karysa

[calikak]

I was going to suggest late seating as well. I think on HAL their late seating is at like 8 or 8:30. You can always take him to the buffet at his normal time, feed him, and then entertain him for a bit, then drop him at Club HAL at 8PM and go to late seating dinner with your sister. If he gets tired, usually a kids club program has a quiet space for him to go to sleep on a mat. That's what we were planning to do on Cunard (before our sailing got cancelled) and many folks told us that was a good plan.

 

I hope you are able to work everything out to your satisfaction and I'm sorry you got bad info from the phone rep. Moral: never book a cruise based on information you get from a cruise line phone rep, because half the time they have no idea what they're talking about. I swear, the cruise lines must train them to just make something up if they don't know the answer.

[sargenet]

I think I am definately going to eat late and see how things go for him in the children's program. My worry is that at 4 (he is a very immature 4!) he won't know when to stop and take a break.. then again he may surprise me. My biggest worry is that he might "melt down" versus lay down! If they do keep him with other 3-5 year olds on the ship, then he may follow along and watch a movie/take a break if the other kids do.

 

I don't think HAL provides pagers like other cruise lines do. It would be great to be paged if he is having a hard time or seems very tired so I could cut dinner short and come and get him.

 

I have come to terms with the fact that it is only 3 days... I hope he does well, because my husband and I really want to take a longer cruise in July!

[Karysa]

Naps get me through late dinner. Tell him that there are special treats available after nap time. That is when you take him by the icecream machine and then avoid it at all other times so he thinks that it is for nappers only. Note: This is not a bribe it is called creative parenting!

Have a great cruise.

Karysa

[bmgaritty]

I think I am definately going to eat late and see how things go for him in the children's program. My worry is that at 4 (he is a very immature 4!) he won't know when to stop and take a break.. then again he may surprise me. My biggest worry is that he might "melt down" versus lay down! If they do keep him with other 3-5 year olds on the ship, then he may follow along and watch a movie/take a break if the other kids do.

 

I don't think HAL provides pagers like other cruise lines do. It would be great to be paged if he is having a hard time or seems very tired so I could cut dinner short and come and get him.

 

I have come to terms with the fact that it is only 3 days... I hope he does well, because my husband and I really want to take a longer cruise in July!

 

All the other 3-5's will be tired also. I would try it - he may surprise you.

 

You may also want to try moving his bedtime a week or two prior to the cruise. I've done this with my daughter prior to travel with shifting time zones. It works for some children.

[rebeccalouise]

One thing to bear in mind with any of the kids programs. If you child is hard to controll or uncooperative in the youth program- they will boot him out anyway.

 

As for Holland America- I have read good things and not so good things about their program. I will be trying HA out this summer- because of the itinerary and I hope that the program works for me.

 

As for incabin sitting. If your child goes to be early- do the "incabin" sitting at 8PM. Get something in writing from Holland America regarding this. I used "incabin" sitting on Celebrity and it was crew members (front desk and cabin stewardess) and was quite pleased. If your son is sleeping anyway- no big deal. In fact, this would be better than him being in the youth program and being tired.

 

Do the late seating with your sister and relax. It will be fine.

[Mid-Age]

HAL also offers "As you wish seating". It might help you to arrange your dinning time. I agree with others that HAL should allow you to cancel. I hope the HAL VP can do something for you. Good Luck!